HWA: The Bulletin
This is why Rod Meredith, Gerald Flurry, Gerald Weston, the entire UCG ministry and all the other splinter groups made sure their incomes were intact before they jumped ship to start new splinter groups. Faith and doctrine was never the main issue; the almighty dollar was the god they followed.
graphic: SHT
They were generously paid considering their light workload. My experience was that the ministers were ignorant of the professional attitudes that exist in the private sector. They played games with both God and man. With all their shenanigans, they would have lost their jobs in the real world.
ReplyDeleteIt must have been a shock for the ministers who were forced to get a real job after the church collapse. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall as these spoilt former ministers experienced a real bosses over them, and having people stand up for their rights. And no more 'Mr' minister. Oh, the inhumanity of it all.
Higher paid than the Vatican priests ? Higher paid than the Pope ?
ReplyDeleteFor the love of money is the root of all evil.
I remember an x-minister getting a job at a construction site and the work crew gave the poor guy pure hell because he was working to slow. I call that sweet revenge.
ReplyDeleteWhy does the UCG have 12 members on its board of directors? Given that there are only about 7000 members in that church that is only about 600 members per board member. Why can't they cut back to 10 members or even 7? I think we all know the answer. Members of the board are more highly paid. None of them want to give-up their high paying jobs.
ReplyDeleteI understand ministers made an impressive $50k+perks/yr in the 1980s, equiv to $100k today.
ReplyDeleteAt HQ (1980s)it was even more wild: Evangelist rank $120k/yr, Tkach $500k/yr!
what are members tithes really for?
DeleteIt was about 1990, I saw the computer printout of ministerial salaries. Evangelist salaries was $74,000. Tkach’s salary was not on the printout
ReplyDeleteIf the members would stop tithing the ministers would jump ship like rats jumping off a sinking boat! Its all about their pay checks! They would have to get a legit job if the sheep would stop funding them! How many really still believe what they preach?
ReplyDeleteWhy should there be a paid ministry at all? Many congregations in the Church of God Seventh Day have an unpaid eldership take care of business, and do just fine. Many independent COGs get along fine using the same model. Get the money out of religion and many problems vanish.
ReplyDeleteNotice the wording.
ReplyDelete"I am TOLD"....
"If SO....."
Carefully worded construct here that I believe was to make the ministers believe they were getting the highest possible ministerial salary anywhere - "so don't even think about jumping ship, because you won't get better than what you're getting here".
The average pay for clergy TODAY is about 49,000 dollars a year.
The evangelist salaries in 1990 - according to ANON 7:49 - were $74,000 dollars. That's about $142,000 in today's money.
And yes, they "did" have a light workload at times. In one of the "Bulletins", an article was published telling people what they should do in times that, well, they had nothing to do. Some of the ideas were to get into Bible Study, go visit a member, and "manage the household". I guess if they completed their Prospective Member visits, their Member Visitations, their sermon outlines, their DELS meetings, Clubs, and special activities - there was a little free time in some congregations. (In the large ones, the ministers appeared to have been booked solid with PM visitations and member visits.) If one happened to be a Festival Coordinator, then there's that added responsibility - but that was only in a few US sites back in the earlier days. Even in the 80s, the majority were not FC's.
Certain ministers, to this day, are on what I call the "Church of God A-List" of ministers. A-List ministers are those who are immediately recognized, unquestioned, and would be welcomed to ANY Church of God splinter without hesitation or without delay. An A-List example would be Dibar Apartian or Richard Ames. There are not many A-Listers left anymore. Many, Like Raymond McNair, have simply bit the dust.
ReplyDeleteThese days, we have B-List ministers (like Weston) who found themselves in an A-List position. But they will NEVER have the same level of "respect" that an A-Lister has. Gerald Weston will never be a Richard Ames or a Raymond McNair - or even a Gerald Waterhouse (thankfully). So when you put a B-lister in an A-slot, it seems underwhelming and not taken very seriously.
The C-List ministers are not known or recognized off the bat, and will never be in an A-List or B-List slot, despite their tenure with the COG... C-List ministers are those local pastors who never really got into the spotlight.
The D-List ministers these days? Some of them aren't even really ministers. Here we have the malm's and the thiel's and that "obedient COG" guy on Youtube, or some guy who arranged his living room to look like an office proclaiming some special "prophecy" or something, with a following that probably couldn't fill a good sized living room on a good day. These are the emulators, the HWA impersonators, the deacons who suddenly became ministers in their own minds, and those who desperately, urgently are trying to get a following at any cost.
When you look at this in the UCG standpoint brought out above - none of the 12 COE members in UCG would even think of stepping down, despite the imbalance. Because who would want to drop as an A-Lister in the COG's? After all, many of them worked decades to get where they were. And some of them, undoubtedly, wouldn't have a clue how to do anything else. They're sitting pretty at the expense of the members who keep them there with their paychecks.
A former minister published a copy of his paycheck from 1970. I was surprised how little he made.
ReplyDeleteIn the tech world, a lot of jobs pay over 100K.
I don't think the ministry in the field are and were overpaid.
Plus they were on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
The ones who did their job were worth what they were paid.
There may have been extravagance at Pasadena, but not out in the field.
1) UCG is very successful - they were formed to ensure a salary for full-time ministers and they have succeeded admirably in their goals.
ReplyDelete2) Please stop insulting the ministers - how do you expect me to get my afternoon nap if they quit preaching?
3) UCG governance prevents splits - well except for some minor and major ones - so obviously it is really, really, really working well.
4) COGWA makes the Democrats jealous - the Dems would like to split the country up, but cannot figure out how. The Dems should go to COGWA for guidance - they know how.
5) It is an absolute doctrine, you have to have "Church of God" in your name - with over 1000 splits it has become insanely difficult and forced the church of Bob to call itself by the ridiculous title of continuing - instead of criticizing these poor people, lets give them help and come up with names for them - though maybe God would prefer they leave His name out of it.
I agree with Connie 100%!
ReplyDeleteWe've critiqued ACOG ministers for decades, based on the fact that they lived beyond the basic standards of the congregations which they served, and therefore were removed from the financial realities faced by the members. We've even blamed these disproportionate salaries for the congregations having to meet in beer halls, rather than in their own, church-owned buildings as more conventional churches.
ReplyDeleteNow, we see documented the fact that these salaries were by design, and moreover, that they were a source of pride for Herbert.
I believe that Jesus would have been proud that his disciples were rich, but in spiritual goods, not physical. Could anyone seriously picture Jesus bragging that St. Peter had a 6 figure income? Physical wealth was something deferred into the Kingdom, received at a time in which the individual was spiritually developed sufficiently to handle it.
SHT
ReplyDeleteBut even the A grade ministers were good motivators, nothing more. The ministers wore a theological burka which included not explaining the everyday application of Gods laws. The sheep had to be kept ignorant for the sake of minister power lust. Hence members who have listened to thousands of sermons are still often socially backward and morally confused.
Many of the top ministers had some weird quirks about them, quirks that somehow never became refined with time and tenure. I wonder if they received extra bonusses for these.
ReplyDeleteDon’t forget all the nice little deductibles the IRS allows (and are used by the ministry) like parsonage deductions and other allowable deductions specifically for ministers.
ReplyDeleteI was even told by one of the leaders of the main groups years ago, that a $40,000 salary for a minister equates to $60,000 with all the deductions they are allowed. So, even the salaries of many in the 60’s, were making well over the average.
Add the company vehicles and expense accounts and they made out better than you think.
I distinctly remember Charles Groce whining to our (then) Omaha congregation one Sab afternoon
ReplyDeleteon how DIFFICULT it was for him to acquire "suitable" housing in the most exclusive bedroom
community in the area. I wrote Pasadena on why could he "afford" such extravagance where I
could just BARELY keep my family housed, fed, etc. All those $$ requirements kept my back
against the wall so to speak, being a lowly factory worker then (welder). I became the con-
gregational black sheep...how DARE I question the WWCG "royalty" vs my priviledge to pay &
pray discrepancy economic status. Almost got disfellowshipped over it. Would've been a bless-
ing in disguise had I/we known it then.
The $ isn't all that they got....LOTS of FREE labor...all under the guise of "good works" Q
ReplyDeletewas for whose benefit? well, we know for sure now...don't we?
11:38 AM,
ReplyDeleteIn 1970 I was making maybe around 2.00/hr. So compare that per year to the paycheck.
Connie Schmidt said: "Why should there be a paid ministry at all? Many congregations in the Church of God Seventh Day have an unpaid eldership take care of business, and do just fine. Many independent COGs get along fine using the same model. Get the money out of religion and many problems vanish."
ReplyDeleteTotally agree! I've increasingly thought in recent years that the Christian Church should follow such a pattern ie:
1) All volunteer ministry (no paid ministry) and all ministers must have a secular job to support their families.
2) All Christian male members should rotate to give a reading to share their learning.
3) No tithing only freewill offerings that is then given to the poor or homeless in the church or local community.
One main reason for this is the NT example of Paul and the Scriptural teaching that each member is a priest (under the Great High Priest) and thus there's no need for a hagiocracy as we see in religious institutions today (eg Catholicism, Episcopalian, etc).
1:35 -
ReplyDeleteThe A-List ministers were good motivators - but they had something else - HWA's loyalty. You could be certain that HWA's will would be done with the top yes-men at the helm. They couldn't possibly leave "the good life" because nobody else would EVER give them the perky life that they had with HWA. Only the best Yes-Men could participate as an evangelist in top ministry in the WCG.
And yes - you have to include, as others noted, the "rest if the story". It was not just the "base salary". It was parsonage allowance, fleet vehicle, deductions, free labor, expense accounts, relatively light workload in some cases, and more.
As far as the bingo halls and the school auditoriums and gymnasiums - this was classic business decision. Remember - the key to understand HWA is to look at it from how he looked at it - as a BUSINESSMAN, not as a theologian or a Christian. Herbert was running a BUSINESS. And in business, you do more with less. Keeping local expenses down and other expenses from becoming a problem was best handled with shoving everyone in some ugly bingo hall or smelly gymnasium, where your "Traveling Church Items" were lugged around everywhere you went - mahogany lectern and all.
This would seem sacrilegious as a respectable place to come before God in worship. But again. Look at this from a business perspective. Proper worship environment was hardly the priority here - EXCEPT in Pasadena, for the auditorium - and that got sabotaged so the most worldly people in the world could entertain audiences, and so Lucille Ball could put out a cigarette on that luxurious overseas expensive carpet.
If you want to decode HWA -the answer is to look at everything as a businessman, not a theologian. Your eyes will widen and pop out.
7:09
ReplyDeletekinda true
however church areas shifted a lot in size and locality. So buying or building could at times be the best business decision but this strategy also amounted to buying childrens shoes. Outgrown almost immediately.
The philosophical background (after the rationalization that "a church meant the people", was of course that all was temporary until christ return. The renting of halls fitted with the basic philosophy and mental state of the church body. (Some might liken the suitcases to business attire, but they also provided the mental state of having "suitcases ready for petra")
nck
SHT
ReplyDeleteConsidering Lucille Balls financial contribution to the church, she should have been offered a ashtray (or a substitute like a cup) rather than told to out out her cigarette. I don't know the details, but going on church culture, she was probably abused rather than diplomatically treated. The 'give honor to whom honor is due' thingy.
Besides the large ministerial paycheck, new automobile every two years, expense account and housing allowance, don't forget that members were always giving gifts to the "poor, overworked" ministers. Somehow they got the finest housing at the FOT and they had special dining rooms with all kinds of high-end food at the FOT. We cannot forget the best FOT seating and reserved parking. Perhaps, they didn't read these verses in Scripture: Matthew 23:6 and Mark 12:39
ReplyDeleteIn reference, to WCG not owning buildings; was there a problem using Masonic and Shriner Temples who practice all kinds of Satanic worship? The 28th degree of Mason is referred to as Prince Adept or Knight of the Most Holy Sun. Hmm no problem with that. Was there a problem using the local Protestant church on Saturday if you put a sheet over the cross and Jesus? Hmm again, no problem there. Did the leadership of WCG and the various splinter groups ever read Scripture for example 2 Kings 23:13? "And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had built for Ashtoreth the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile." As was said on NASA communications: "Houston, I think we have a problem."