Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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Thursday, November 8, 2018
The ENTIRE ACOG movement can fit in the Tuscon Feast site today.
I've been to these large feast sites. The sermons had no substance. Members weren't really spiritually fed. That the church shrivelled and splintered is to be expected.
I disagree with 3:07 AM and I suspect the comment made "that the church shriveled and splintered is to be expected" is a comment easily made 50 years later in hindsight but was expected by no one at the time in the 1960s and 1970s. Because "time is short", we all expected to complete the Work, the Great Tribulation to occur with the German attack on America, and for Christ to return soon. No one at that time envisioned time going on beyond Herbert Armstrong's life; that we would someday be in the year 2018 in this world, and that the Church would be splintered and fractured into an obscure and insignificant movement with no worldwide impact.
My family and I attended the large feast sites in Mt. Pocono and Jekyll Island. Speaking as a young person growing up in the Church, it was exciting to see 8,000 to 10,000 other "peculiar people" all in one place and time. It made me feel that I was part of a larger and bigger movement. It was exciting to see the Armstrongs, and I thought sermons had substance.
Does size matter? Have we forgotten that we are "a little flock"? How about the eight persons after the flood? And the 120 in the early church? The mustard seed parable?
Mankind puts the strong, the athletic, the genius on a pedestal. If we treated the less fortunate among us as equals we would see that they can also become heroes.
Yes, in the early ‘70s we were still very much looking to the end in 1975. We thought the Imperial students and kids in the local congregations who smoked Marijuana were probably the emerging lazy and content Laodiceans. Nixon was in power, Watergate was demoralizing the USA, Agnew resigned in disgrace, the dollar was taken off the gold standard, and we were being humiliated by North Vietnam and our own hippies. It truly looked as if the Armstrong “hook” was becoming reality! Leaving the WCG in the face of all that was a big agonizing process during that time. Then came the cancellation of1975 and all the corruption in the church was exposed, and there was the first mass Exodus.
Richard If you think sermons had substance, you should try reading self help books. Church content is baby food by comparison. See if you can learn something new by reading splinter literature. It's not wisdom in hindsight that a toxic church culture results in ruin. Rather, people believed that they could cheat and get away with their sins.
Anonymous 8:04 AM said, "Does size matter? Have we forgotten that we are "a little flock"?"
MY COMMENT - Well, apparently to Herbert Armstrong size did matter! Otherwise, why did he spend so much time at FOT giving us the festival attendance history of the R/WCG dating back to the beginning when he and Loma were keeping it alone? Remember 30% annual growth? Even when Festival attendance hit almost 100,000, the Church was still referred to by the ministry as "a little flock".
The Bible didn't define "little flock" - how little is little?. "Little" can be very relative. Consider my understanding is the Worldwide Church of God peaked at 150,000 in the 1980s. The world population was 4.9 Billion in the mid-1980s.
The megatrend in the Armstrong Churches of God post-Herbert Armstrong is a decreased smaller flock and "Work" (if there are as many as 50,000 Armstrongites today, I would be surprised), while the world's population has increased to 7.7 Billion.
"I disagree with 3:07 AM and I suspect the comment made "that the church shriveled and splintered is to be expected" is a comment easily made 50 years later in hindsight ..."
The comment at 3:07 was posted by a bald-faced liar whose goal is to deceive the ignorant.
That's how debates work these days. It's all fake.
Anon 1:16 So having no substance is better than what you call negative substance ? Utter foolishness that rules in the hearts.
It is a prime example of how psychology has replaced wisdom and godly conversion.
Ezekiel i want you to condemn these leaders and tell them: i, the LORD God, say you Shepherds of Israel are doomed. You take care of yourselves while ignoring my sheep. You are cruel and mean to my sheep. I will rescue my sheep from you. I the Lord have spoken.
Each splinter group is lead by a man(s)who needs to be numero uno. Imagine if they combined together, but not with Pack rat, what they could accomplish. Even together they would be insignificant and would not be able to reach the world much less the people across the street. On the internet they are insignificant, on radio they are insignificant, on tv/satellite they are insignificant. When the old ministers and members die off, there will not be enough young members left. This will happen in ten to twenty years.
I've been to these large feast sites. The sermons had no substance. Members weren't really spiritually fed. That the church shrivelled and splintered is to be expected.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with 3:07 AM and I suspect the comment made "that the church shriveled and splintered is to be expected" is a comment easily made 50 years later in hindsight but was expected by no one at the time in the 1960s and 1970s. Because "time is short", we all expected to complete the Work, the Great Tribulation to occur with the German attack on America, and for Christ to return soon. No one at that time envisioned time going on beyond Herbert Armstrong's life; that we would someday be in the year 2018 in this world, and that the Church would be splintered and fractured into an obscure and insignificant movement with no worldwide impact.
ReplyDeleteMy family and I attended the large feast sites in Mt. Pocono and Jekyll Island. Speaking as a young person growing up in the Church, it was exciting to see 8,000 to 10,000 other "peculiar people" all in one place and time. It made me feel that I was part of a larger and bigger movement. It was exciting to see the Armstrongs, and I thought sermons had substance.
Great graphics giving proper perspective SHT!
Richard
Does size matter? Have we forgotten that we are "a little flock"? How about the eight persons after the flood? And the 120 in the early church? The mustard seed parable?
ReplyDeleteMankind puts the strong, the athletic, the genius on a pedestal. If we treated the less fortunate among us as equals we would see that they can also become heroes.
DeleteYes, in the early ‘70s we were still very much looking to the end in 1975. We thought the Imperial students and kids in the local congregations who smoked Marijuana were probably the emerging lazy and content Laodiceans. Nixon was in power, Watergate was demoralizing the USA, Agnew resigned in disgrace, the dollar was taken off the gold standard, and we were being humiliated by North Vietnam and our own hippies. It truly looked as if the Armstrong “hook” was becoming reality! Leaving the WCG in the face of all that was a big agonizing process during that time. Then came the cancellation of1975 and all the corruption in the church was exposed, and there was the first mass Exodus.
ReplyDeleteRichard
ReplyDeleteIf you think sermons had substance, you should try reading self help books. Church content is baby food by comparison. See if you can learn something new by reading splinter literature.
It's not wisdom in hindsight that a toxic church culture results in ruin. Rather, people believed that they could cheat and get away with their sins.
Anonymous 8:04 AM said, "Does size matter? Have we forgotten that we are "a little flock"?"
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT - Well, apparently to Herbert Armstrong size did matter! Otherwise, why did he spend so much time at FOT giving us the festival attendance history of the R/WCG dating back to the beginning when he and Loma were keeping it alone? Remember 30% annual growth? Even when Festival attendance hit almost 100,000, the Church was still referred to by the ministry as "a little flock".
The Bible didn't define "little flock" - how little is little?. "Little" can be very relative. Consider my understanding is the Worldwide Church of God peaked at 150,000 in the 1980s. The world population was 4.9 Billion in the mid-1980s.
The megatrend in the Armstrong Churches of God post-Herbert Armstrong is a decreased smaller flock and "Work" (if there are as many as 50,000 Armstrongites today, I would be surprised), while the world's population has increased to 7.7 Billion.
Richard
8.04 AM
ReplyDeleteThe church membership went from 150,000 members to about 20,000 - 30,000. What mustard seed/plant shrinks in size?
"I disagree with 3:07 AM and I suspect the comment made "that the church shriveled and splintered is to be expected" is a comment easily made 50 years later in hindsight ..."
ReplyDeleteThe comment at 3:07 was posted by a bald-faced liar whose goal is to deceive the ignorant.
That's how debates work these days. It's all fake.
"The sermons had no substance."
ReplyDeleteWhich is far better than your comment, which has negative substance.
Anon 1:16 So having no substance is better than what you call negative substance ?
DeleteUtter foolishness that rules in the hearts.
It is a prime example of how psychology has replaced wisdom and godly conversion.
Ezekiel i want you to condemn these leaders and tell them: i, the LORD God, say you Shepherds of Israel are doomed. You take care of yourselves while ignoring my sheep.
You are cruel and mean to my sheep.
I will rescue my sheep from you. I the Lord have spoken.
Each splinter group is lead by a man(s)who needs to be numero uno. Imagine if they combined together, but not with Pack rat, what they could accomplish. Even together they would be insignificant and would not be able to reach the world much less the people across the street. On the internet they are insignificant, on radio they are insignificant, on tv/satellite they are insignificant. When the old ministers and members die off, there will not be enough young members left. This will happen in ten to twenty years.
ReplyDeleteTkach's GCI claims "50,000".
ReplyDelete- More like 1500!(lol)-
a bald-faced liar
ReplyDeleteFrom the years gone past I remember Dave Pack frequently used that expression. Just saying...
Glad to know my beard is an indicator that I’m a truth-teller, cause that’s the way I try to live!
DeleteBB