The time is long past for those who follow the theological fantasies and prophetic delusions of Dave Pack to reclaim their critical thinking skills, tossed and torn though they might be.
While you have been hammered with the untruth of your observations being foolishness. That you might seem right in your own observations and discomfort over his pronouncements but it will only lead to your death. That your ways are not Dave's ways because Dave's ways are always right. And that yours can never be because you are not Dave who by his own admission has never been quite like anyone else ever, cut from entirely different cloth than anyone else and titled up like no other...
While you have been hammered with the untruth of your observations being foolishness. That you might seem right in your own observations and discomfort over his pronouncements but it will only lead to your death. That your ways are not Dave's ways because Dave's ways are always right. And that yours can never be because you are not Dave who by his own admission has never been quite like anyone else ever, cut from entirely different cloth than anyone else and titled up like no other...
Hold Dave Pack's feet to his own fire and recognize he has long ago told you what was coming and what to do when it did.
And it has.
Out of the abundance of the heart, this mouth has long ago spoken of such a time as this...
"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C Pack
December 12, 1998
Yes you did and often...
Yes you did and often...
Preachers often preach about hangups and problems that they are having themselves. When you find a minister "staying stuck" on a particular topic, it is usually some form of coping mechanism in trying to deal with it.
ReplyDeleteIt is obvious that even back in the 1990s, that Pack knew that he was slipping into delusional thinking. That is why he made the statements that he did.
Pack has been a whacko for a long time. Back in the 1980s, the Ambassador Report said that there was no other minister that had more complaints and reports to Pasadena than Dave Pack. His journey has indeed been long and very sad.
Pack knows he is mentally unstable. He simply warns the people of his tendency to go off the rails. What story would his children tell you about their childhood growing up with Dave as the father? Maybe they could share this with the world and save just a few who might be smart enough.
ReplyDeleteIf Pack had such a horrible track record and was creating trouble for HQ, why did they hold onto him? Why not just fire the guy?
ReplyDeleteThey chose him, 10:35, and as they would have us believe, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit! To fire him would have been to admit that the Holy Spirit was not present amongst the Armstrong leadership team. Besides, fanatics don’t fire people for being too strict. They only fire them for being too liberal, teaching liberalism and for moral failures that they can’t cover up.
DeleteBB
I'm pretty sure on his deathbed he will find a way to make two men from his church two witnesses and continue to plague the members with prophetic nonsense until they too are gone, it will be this sick and dubious trap to which there is no end.The blind will lead the blind until the very end there is no chance that RCG will fade away anytime soon, if he looses the entire membership he will find a way that man is a sorcerer...
ReplyDeleteHere is another "DAVE PACK VIDEO pt 1 " Thank you for the inspiration for the next set of videos from the pt 144 sermon failure. Please continue to help expose this fraud. Thanks.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72I71t90n6w
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIf Pack had such a horrible track record and was creating trouble for HQ, why did they hold onto him? Why not just fire the guy?
That was always my question. Facts were that troublesome ministers were moved around to peddle their trouble to other congregations. In my 26 years, and I can name ministers who caused nothing but problems in addition to Dave Pack, no one got fired. Every one of them just got transferred. I don't know why there was a reluctance to fire the worst offenders.
I do recall talking with Joe Tkach about giving all the ministry a personality profile survey to help them see the type of person they tended to be along with strengths and weaknesses. He refused to even consider it.
At any rate, good question and one for which I never saw a good answer to save to move them around.
Dave was reigned in after his Buffalo,NY experience, or theirs with Dave, and sent to NYC to work under Steve Botha. This is the time period Dave always bemoans his demotion. I recall asking Steve how Dave was doing because all knew he was there as a last resort perhaps. Steve noted that Dave was doing fine but that once on his own again he would revert to the person he is in ministry. This, of course, proved to be true in spades.
I can't believe that Dennis is quoting Buddha. Doesn't he know Buddha was not an atheist?
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteLCG member's rallying cry
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI can't believe that Dennis is quoting Buddha. Doesn't he know Buddha was not an atheist?
First of all the posting is not about myself. Secondly an atheist could quote Billy Graham or the Bible itself if they wish and thirdly...
"Buddha Gautama did not believe in God, because there is no god. Through his endeavor and single mindedness he could see a world where a ‘god’ had no role to play. Hindu Dharma was like a huge tree. Through his no-nonsense talk he made millions realize that it is futile searching for a non-existent entity."
"Do Buddhists believe in a god?
Buddhists do not believe in a single god. They believe there is no evidence to support a solitary being ruling over the vast universe. They believe in a collective humanity in which every person has the ability to become a Buddha, meaning a perfected human being. Buddhists believe in reincarnation and the law of karma."
Do your homework before you speak.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=GUlxAd5U&id=3DE7AEC223AF04CE29E254230ECA6085339A4473&thid=OIP.GUlxAd5UMRzLJ4NUwpXoIgAAAA&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F19497101de54311ccb278354c295e822%2Ftenor.gif&exph=220&expw=220&q=buddha+gifs&simid=608028400056536783&selectedindex=45&ajaxhist=0&vt=4&eim=1,2,6&sim=11
He won't listen Dennis
Great reminder for those with eyes to see.
ReplyDeleteThis man is talented enough to pull off everything he said in that quote and he has done quite well in convincing many that he possesses the authority of God.
With a core of men at headquarters that have either known him since they were kids or the new influx of people that never experienced the 70's or 90's combined with a few that are enamored with him, and you have not much that is going to move the mountain from within.
Truth has no meaning with Mr. Pack - agenda does. Write a book prosecuting the world for their actions, and then do the same actions himself. Write another book excoriating another author for their biblical hubris and then do the exact same thing himself. Try and correct his biblical understanding and see him go into a raging fit claiming his doctrine is rock solid only to change it a few weeks later. Build himself and a few other ministers new houses and purchase more houses for ministers and claim the church will benefit financially from it all. Claim that his campus is complete and the focus will now be on the gospel and then and go and build something else and do it over and over again.
The actions of this man have been loud and obvious for many years now, but the master of deflection comes up with another sermon series or builds another grand structure or proclaims another advent. Keep the membership excited and expectant while fleecing all of them even the widows. That is how this man grows his church and executes his agenda and as said back in 1998, he isn't going anywhere.
PS As long as we are being misinformed about Buddhist belief in a personal God, I found this the best answer reflecting critical thinking and common sense understanding in Buddhists.
ReplyDeleteDo Buddhist believe in god?
No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origin in fear. The Buddha says:
"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".
Dp 188
Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.
The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.
The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin on the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.
DennisCDiehl said: “Facts were that troublesome ministers were moved around to peddle their trouble to other congregations. In my 26 years, and I can name ministers who caused nothing but problems in addition to Dave Pack, no one got fired. Every one of them just got transferred. I don't know why there was a reluctance to fire the worst offenders.”
ReplyDeleteSounds exactly like the Catholic church’s handling of pedophile priests. “Like mother, like daughter” I guess.
A fantasy sermonette for the stalwarts about the hundred year period: "Today is a very momentous day in the life of Guatama Buddha! You see, earlier today, Mr. Buddha was ordained as a pastor ranked minister in God's Church!"..........
ReplyDeleteThe Nazis in the 1930s used their brown shirts to intimidate their opponents. The south did the same with the KKK. The top echelons of the WWCG used "problem" ministers as de facto brown shirts to enforce the church culture of members having no rights.
ReplyDeleteIn the WWCG, ministers owned members lives. When I attended services, I mentioned to my minister that another minister had baptised me. He had a panic attack, stuttering that it was he who had baptised me, and that "I can prove it." That is, the minister who baptises a member, is the minister that literally owns that members life.
It's a psychopathic trait that they secretly believe that they own other peoples lives.
Not forgetting, this minister use to look at me as if I was stealing food from babies mouths since I didn't agree that he owned me. There was one article on this blog dedicated to this minister.
9:08
ReplyDelete"The top echelons of the WWCG used "problem" ministers as de facto brown shirts..."
"It's a psychopathic trait that they secretly believe that they own other peoples lives." This is interesting...
How did all these groups find or attract such personality disordered and move or promote them, to a point they each had to be *the* one leader with all truth?
When GTA was fired, it would have been refreshing if he'd found something different to do.
Not to change topic. Back to Pack and Buddhism.
"Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea."
ReplyDeleteRats... I must have missed that day in science class.