The above two pictures are from a Facebook page of a group that deals with spiritual abuse recovery from all kinds of churches and sects.
The first picture is of a child's coloring sheet that teaches children to unquestionably listen to what their pastor says and believe it. That is what the Worldwide Church of God indoctrinated us all when it kept reinforcing that the ministry was a direct pipeline from God and God spoke to us through them. The ministry and especially top church leaders, were incapable of making a mistake, whether theologically or in daily counsel. From YES lessons to the Bible Correspondence Course, it was all laid out in black and white as to what a person was to believe and to never question.
The second picture is of a similar vein in that church members are not to question a pastor on anything. COG members were trained to never question the leadership, the ministry, doctrines, or anything printed in the myriad of books, booklets, and magazines. To do so placed one's salvation in jeopardy.
Recently, there was an article up about how those in Christian churches who attend regularly are more prone to ask clergy for advice on certain important decisions. The difference in Church of God ministers and ministers in many Christian churches is that many of those men are well trained in counseling techniques and have hundreds of hours of classroom work in counseling. Church of God ministers, regardless of the affiliation, do NOT have training in proper counseling techniques.
Herbert Armstrong, Rod Meredith, and others regularly mocked and ridiculed therapists and psychiatrists as deceived agents of Satan, while touting the ministry of "god's church" as the true rightful heirs to counseling. The counseling techniques used by many COG ministers have led to suicides, broken marriages, divorces, and even murder.
Living Church of God currently has issues with its members not listening to its church leaders. Scott Winnail is trying to reinforce in LCG members the need they should have to go to their ministers for advice. Because, after all, any advice from a COG minister is directly inspired by God.
Given the abysmal track record of spiritual abuse in the Living Church of God, why would any LCG member ever do such a thing?
Regular Church-Goers Seek More Counsel: A new study published by the Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research highlighted an interesting finding: Among those who possess a religious affiliation, people who attend church services more regularly are also more likely to seek counsel and advice from their clergy concerning important decisions (APNORC.org, May 2019). These findings were true even among religious groups considering themselves more “liberal.” Regular church attendance appears to have a powerful impact not only on the way attendees view their ministers, but also on the degree to which their values are socially conservative in nature.
It is interesting how these recent findings confirm what the Bible has stated in its pages for millennia. Nearly 3,000 years ago, Solomon wrote, “a man of understanding will attain wise counsel” (Proverbs 1:5) and, “he who heeds counsel is wise” (Proverbs 12:15). The Scriptures also state that both “safety” (Proverbs 11:14) and wisdom (Proverbs 12:15) can be gained from a multitude of counsel. Being willing to seek counsel and advice is a hallmark of wisdom. Modern research shows that those who attend church regularly are more likely to include their clergy in such counsel—seeking feedback, advice, and direction. The Bible reveals that a willingness to seek counsel is something God desires of us—a key ingredient to growing in wisdom. To begin your journey of growing in wisdom, be sure to read “The Way to Wisdom.”—Scott Winnail
Counseling and Therapy are two different things. COG ministers offer opinions based on their view of scripture, God and their perceptions of what proper living is or isn't. One can get biblical advice on some topics because some topics are commented on. If one wishes the Bronze or Iron Age view, go for it. Times have changed.
ReplyDeleteThe Old Testament in particular is filled with people who themselves hear the voice of their gods in their heads and simply do what they say. There is no psychology or seeming recognition of such thing in the Old Testament, unless one counts deception every now and then of one character towards another. No one wonders how Lot's daughters or Lot's wife felt about Lot offering the girls to the crowd "for they have never known a man, do with them what you wish.." etc. No one wonders how Isaac felt after almost getting his throat slit by his dad and his body burned up on an altar, nor how the story went over with Sarah when they got home that evening. The people in the OT are more robotic than real. Thus not a good source of being used by the minister to make a point that encourages or helps at all.
The New Testament is not much better. Unmarried men, seemingly with no children or family experience telling everyone else how to date, be married and raise the kids? Really? On top of that throw in being wrong about what they taught about the times they thought they lived in and the chaos that no doubt caused single folk, married folk and children and you get men simply unqualified to tell others how it all is in life.
On top of this there was no recognition of mental illness unless demon possession counts. This is not a good platform from which to launch one's advice to another who is having depression, anxiety or other mental health issues. Schizophrenia is not demon possession. It is a mental issue.
COG ministers are not much better in their credentials to counsel. They have none and can cause irreparable harm to people by missing the point with shallow and ill informed opinion masking as "counseling".
Most of the ministers I knew needed counseling from professionals if not outright therapy for themselves. Few if any were qualified to give meaningful and non-church skewed advice and help. There was an overuse of "you should" and "you must" which leads to the good advice of being cautious about "shoulding on yourself too much" and "No Must-rabating). Issues are complex and not as easily solved by repentance and compliance as the ministry tends to think.
COG ministers and elders can listen but their skill should be in referral to appropriate professionals who make their life's work in understanding and treating the many mental and emotional issues that come along with being human.
Time would fail me to list all the lame and pathetic "advice and counsel" I have heard members tell me about when they went to see and talk to Mr. So and So.
Bottom line for COG ministry. "Don't deter and do refer" if you really want to be helpful.
My first pastor, who baptized me, gave me the best advice ever, during baptismal counseling.
ReplyDeleteHe said" If you want to stay in this thing, then take my advice... stay away from ministers".
The few times that I did not heed that advice , through the decades, I ended up regretting it.
I am not a rogue, or a trouble maker, but with the exception of just two men, (versus about 20 others I have had as pastors), they were either woefully ignoramus' or just really didn't give a hang in the end, and were paycheck collectors.
I know of few church members who actually go to the ministry for counseling, as there are many "trust and confidentiality" issues at stake , most of the time, and the allure that ministers are "all knowing and wise" illusion has long left most peoples expectations.
Matthew 7:16 teaches us to judge a thing by its fruits.
ReplyDeletePeople eagerly seek financial counsel from Warren Buffett. People eagerly seek marital counsel from couples who have stayed together for 50+ years. People eagerly seek career counsel from successful businessmen. People eagerly seek academic counsel from master teachers and expert professors.
A counselor who whines, "You should listen to my counsel because God says so" is just pathetic, whether it is Scott Winnail or Bob Thiel doing the whining. If LCG counsel produced good fruits, people would line up every Sabbath to receive as much counsel as possible from LCG counselors.
Furthermore, LCG teaches that its baptized members have received God's Holy Spirit. LCG teaches the Bible, which teaches that Christians recognize their Shepherd's voice when they hear it. If LCG members aren't eager to heed LCG ministers' counsel, then either the members or the ministers, maybe both, lack or aren't using the Holy Spirit. Sounds like a rather dreadful place to be!
And too... The Proverbs and Ecclesiastes reflect a more realistic view of age old questions and answers. Frankly, the authors of those two books were more conscious and had a more complete sense of self than we see in older NT Books and authors. Ecclesiastes, by a more self aware author, is a practical view of life and God is not even mentioned in the book.
ReplyDeleteIn my transition from WCG to a real life I had a professional counselor. The only "counseling" I got from within the Church close to the end was "Dennis, we think you know a lot about Jesus, but you don't know Jesus." How much do you think that helped me? It wasn't even close to what I may have needed to say to the Church. But with that, it was over. No more talk.
When I spent a week in transition, incredibly depressed in a Charter Hospital, I got to pick who got to come visit and then only once in the week. Somehow, a current splinter leader showed up who was not on my very short list. I was stuck with him or a moment and asked and said two things. "What have your learned here?" It was none of his business but I mentioned the effect my walking the halls of a state hospital every week from age 5 to 18 to see my brother was probably a bit too much for me etc and just said, "Yeah, yeah...heard that all before." The second comment was even worse. He said "We just think you are hiding in here." My mouth did not allow me to say "fuck you" but my mind and heart screamed it. It was pretty much downhill from there. The last thing said was "we were going to fire you." I wish they had. It would have saved me seven more years of never ending bullshit with Jesus working the great miracle of taking me back full circle to my Presbyterian beliefs if I wanted to go. I didn't. That's when I knew a lot about Jesus but did not know Jesus...
amen.
Under Scott Winnail's inspired leadership, Living University's first female graduate got pregnant before marriage, then left North Carolina after a shotgun wedding. Scott has a very high opinion of his own intellect and judgment, but most people who work closely with him figure out quickly that if his surname were not Winnail he would be recognized as the lightweight and mediocrity he actually is.
ReplyDeleteWhat they really are implying is only the Ministry have God's Holy Spirit to be wise counsel.
ReplyDeleteTherefore the stupid ungodly membership should do as they are told.
This is very dangerous and ungodly.
Nothing wrong with seeking wise counsel but very wrong to imply it can only be found amongst the ministry.
Living are not alone in implying this. Many think like this.
Its a ungodly caste sytem.
What blindness! What hypocrisy! It is well-known in LCG that not only do many ministers gossip among themselves regarding their members' private matters, the top LCG men expect to be informed about those private matters. I know personally of circumstances in which Scott Winnail has made decisions about an LCG member based only on the gossip he has received about that member, without even seeking the member's side of the matter. Why on earth would anyone choose to counsel with someone with such poor ethics? And Winnail is not alone, even Gerald Weston has been part of the ministerial gossip club, sharing members' private matters with other ministers. Worse, these men often enough make mistakes and end up sharing false information, to the detriment of the members.
ReplyDeleteWhy, then, would anyone seeking Godly counsel share willingly with these men?
And forgive the multiple comments but I learned a lot at Charter. A lot. I'll share the most revealing thing taught in the most simple of ways.
ReplyDeleteWe had a group session and the counselor said, "let's go to the gym." I wasn't much in the mood but no choice. In the middle of the gym floor there was a standard wooden pallet. The counselor simply told the eight of us to get on the pallet, both feet off the floor or 15 seconds. Get on and stay on anyway you can. (It was a bit small for 8 adults). When we did that successfully and I was wondering if weaving baskets was next as I did not have the best outlook at the time, we went back to the group talk circle.
The counselor said "I am only going to ask you all one question.....Where were you on the pallet?"
"BLAM!" I sat there , getting it instantly. I got teary, (depression promotes that) "Nice shot" I recall thinking. "You got me!
I was physically where I always tended to find myself in life. On the outer edge, arms around everyone I could, holding them together long enough to stay on the pallet. If need be I would have given up my spot and stepped off.
You may not get it but I did. It explained why I was such a religious kid and deep thinker as even a kid. It explained why I defended the underdogs and would give up what I wanted for what others might want. It showed me how I ended up in the "how can I help you" ministry and why saving the world through all things God and the Wonderful World Tomorrow was more important to me as a teen than paleontology or becoming an eye doctor so maybe I could give my brother a couple of good ones. It explained to me why I stayed way too long hating the way the church leadership's foolish ignorance of how people are and standing up for the congregation of good folk that did not deserve having the rug pulled out from under them theologically as if it was their ignorant fault.
It was a powerful tool in my understanding myself and it was so simply applied to make a point.
I was on the outside holding everyone on. Now that's effective counseling and therapy!
And then I'll leave us alone..lol.
ReplyDeleteUltimately my problem was that I came to play Hockey. I love hockey. I grew up with hockey. I played hockey and we all fell through the ice on Lake Ontario a time or two badly misjudging the thickness of the ice in Spring. But then come Joe Tkach and melts the ice, takes down the goals, repaints the lines and announces that now we are going to play basketball. I don't like basketball. I did not come to the church to play basket ball. But not only are we not going to play hockey and we are going to play basketball, you Dennis must be the basketball coach. You must teach your players basketball now and forget all knew about hockey. This was not going to happen. I don't know how to play basketball, or I forgot how and I like Hockey
I was not "noble" in my letting go of my ministry and church. The church went from 450ish to about 90 as a result of the Great Jesus Miracle, (I saw that Jesus as a trickster), and they wanted to let full time ministers go to save money. I wonder how long I would have stayed before I just gave up and quit. It was that outside of the pallet thing that made me still care for the local church even though Greenville was pretty rife with dissent my first experience with getting stabbed in the back while smiled to face to face. My sermons were being reported to the District Coordinator and my refusal to participate in heading off to Promise Keepers for a Million Man weep session was frowned upon as not cooperating with "the changes."
That's the best analogy I can come up with to explain my own experience and why the church was neither compassionate or even remotely helpful in a very messy time.
My own experience with being counseled by church administrators was pretty shallow and almost none existent, but when it showed up, it was pathetic, discouraging and rather pissed me off. While there was no joy at that time for me personally, they were not helpers of what little there might have been in the least. It was threats peppered with imputing motives to me I did not have along with demanding to know things that were frankly none of their business.
Sorry, I think this topic punched a button.... I feel better now :)
Tonto said: "I know of few church members who actually go to the ministry for counseling, as there are many "trust and confidentiality" issues at stake , most of the time, and the allure that ministers are "all knowing and wise" illusion has long left most peoples expectations.'
ReplyDeleteExactly right and that's the result of the lesson learned of too many times
"Tell a minister? = Tell the world"
Dennis, Tonto... Rod Meredith was really bad at confidentiality, but there was something even worse. He would often hear some gossip from one of his spies, but when he passed the gossip along to other ministers he would "spin" or "twist" the gossip, distorting what he had been told. To this day, I wonder whether he deliberately sought to hurt people and create discord on the idea that the chaos he created would enhance his ability to control other people, or whether he was simply a mentally deficient person who heard what he wanted to hear and couldn't keep his spies' stories straight when he gossiped.
ReplyDelete"Ecclesiastes, by a more self aware author, is a practical view of life and God is not even mentioned in the book."
ReplyDeleteDid you even read the book, Dennis?
On a Friday, I once called a minister, with an important question. I got the most horrible lecture, How dare I call him on the preparation day. To this day, I still don't know if he was getting it on with his wife that morning or what?
ReplyDeleteAfter that, I never asked any so called minister for advice.
So what has changed over years, nothing from what I can see.
Were better to ask GOD for advice, rather than those so called advisers.
The only one, I might trust would be Arsenault from Canada.
Ronco said...
ReplyDelete"Ecclesiastes, by a more self aware author, is a practical view of life and God is not even mentioned in the book."
Did you even read the book, Dennis?
My mistake Ronco. It's Song of Solomon and Esther not Ecclesiastes. Song of Solomon is a much more human experience. The Contrast in my mind was between the Book of Amos where Amos is the classic Prophet Automaton and Ecclesiastes where the author relates more conscious concepts of self etc. Thanks for the pointing it out.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDennis, Tonto... Rod Meredith was really bad at confidentiality, but there was something even worse. He would often hear some gossip from one of his spies, but when he passed the gossip along to other ministers he would "spin" or "twist" the gossip, distorting what he had been told.
My take would be that RCM was just a very serious person and of course, thought of himself more highly than one actually should in the church setting. Recall his oft repeated idea that "There is God, Christ, Mr. Armstrong, Garner Ted Armstrong, Myself and a few other leading evangelists.." (never named after he got himself in the lineup of God's favorite hierarchy).
He loved the drama of the Bible and describing the gore of it all especially when it came to the crucifixion. He was the Mel Gibson of WCG. I don't know if it was deliberate. I just think he used that to approach to convince. His personality was also so serious as I said and I can say I never saw him let down or seem to enjoy his actual life in the present. Everything was always a function of the future. I also believe he felt best qualified to take over the work after HWA's passing and there was no way in hell he was going to work under GTA or under anyone else.
That not going to work under anyone else but themselves and was a trait we also see in Flurry and Pack. Dave could never work under anyone or anyplace he couldn't eventually take over.
Aw, gee! Not one of you found counselling from the ministers empowering? It didn’t give you any sort of advantage or extra edge? You didn’t think it represented unconditional love or demonstrated that they had your best interests at heart?
ReplyDeleteNeither did I.
BB
Gerald Weston and the boys in Charlotte are too naive to understand why church members do not seek counsel from them. Who in their right mind would go to Rod McNair for advice? Who would go to seek counsel from Mario Hernandez, Wyatt Ciesielka and Wallace Smith? These are not sound men who give out worthwhile advice.
ReplyDeleteRod McNair told me one time that I needed to schedule an appointment with him. I refused right on the spot. He was not happy. He could do nothing about it. It was a delightful moment!
ReplyDeleteMinisters also discuss members lives with their wives. I know this from the way their wives sometimes looked at me.
ReplyDeleteHerbs splinters religiously hide the fact that members have direct access to Gods thrown via prayer. No middlemen ministers are required. This was the significance of the veil in the holy of holiness splitting in two on Christ's death. But this represents competition to power hungry ministers, so God is pushed to one side.
Ministers only pull out God or Christs name if it exalts themselves. They never do it to exalt or glorify God. They usurp Gods role.
We are to seek "wise counsel". Unfortunately many in the ministry have not been promoted because of their superior "wisdom", Biblical or otherwise. Nor were they given their titles and positions because of their overwhelming love and concern for the brethren they are supposed to be serving. They have their positions because they have demonstrated that they will support whomever signs their paycheck, even if that means going against Biblical principal, moral obligation, common sense, or even their own consciences. Their job is to defend the policies of the organization to which they belong, not necessarily to give sound, thoughtful, or even in many cases Biblical advice. They have proven that many of them are not equipped to give even the most basic financial, marital, child-rearing, or other advice, or to handle mental or emotional problems, domestic abuse, child abuse, addiction issues, or other serious problems people might have. Many have trouble answering even the most basic of Biblical questions, especially if someone challenges the corporate church position on a given topic. They can only resort to repeating the "official" position even if it doesn't answer the given question, or if there are Biblical holes in the argument.
ReplyDeleteMany brethren have learned the hard way not to share too much personal information with the ministry not just because of the trust and confidentiality concerns, but also because the issue is completely mishandled the majority of the time, and in many cases the problem is made worse by the "intervention" of the minister. Women in particular have learned to be very cautious about confiding any sort of marital issue, because most of the time the problem is never addressed and they are made the scapegoats. The pat answer is almost always that the female in the situation just needs to be more submissive, understanding, sexually available, etc. I have personally witnessed this being the case in everything from cases of domestic abuse to adultery, or porn addiction.
Rather than coming along side their fellow Christians as friends and brethren, gently leading and teaching by example, recognizing the gifts of others and equipping the body to work together and minister to one another, these men have been taught and conditioned to view themselves as some sort of superhuman spiritual gurus, who have all the answers no matter what the issue might be. In their arrogance they do not know how to simply tell someone "I don't know" or "Let's find out together" or to realize when they are beyond their depth and need to refer the person to someone more qualified to help. Much rarer still will you hear any minister utter words like "I was wrong" or "I'm sorry".
I recently heard a minister in another cog group tell his audience he doesn't give out child rearing advice because he and his wife were not blessed with children of their own, and he had no personal experience to help him understand or relate to the issues people might have in that area. I walked away from that talk with a little more respect for this man, because though I might not agree with him on every issue, he at least showed that he had enough maturity to admit that he personally was not the most qualified person to give advice on this particular issue. This is a rare quality among cog ministry.
These men expect loyalty, trust, and monetary support from their fellow brethren simply because they were "ordained" and given a title by some other religious authority. Some even see themselves as modern day priests or Moses figures, the brethren being their personal "children of Israel". This however denies the Biblical principle of the priesthood of all believers, as well as the fact that we no longer need human priests to mediate between us and God. All Christians must test the spirits, and none of us is obligated to accept bad advice from anyone, minister or not.
Concerned Sister
"He was the Mel Gibson of WCG."
ReplyDeleteInteresting that you mention that.
I mistakenly took my parents to Mel's movie about the American Revolution. Those related to the British commander had protested the movie as extremely inaccurate regarding their ancestors behavior. Later that Maya movie made very clear what Mel Gibson's private brand of Catholic schism belief system constituted. This leaves us with the question if Mel Gibson indeed is the father of Jody Foster's child OR if indeed the child is miraculously conceived.
When my kin left wcg early in the changing phase, before the (by me) anticipated larger (UCG) schism, I asked if they would join a somewhat larger less radical splinter IF their "more radical" minister would yield to the government of the larger splinter "under god".
Of course that turned out to be about the most naive question ever.
No one would yield under the other or regard themselves less than other or under the governent of anything whatsoever, all inventing their own little twists and schemes to sanction their leadership.
nck
I remember how I was an expert on child rearing until we had our own children. Those babies just wouldn't follow GTA's book.
ReplyDeleteThe key ingredients are love and patience.
God is not slapping you down every time you make a mistake or do something wrong. Likewise parents should do the same.
Spare the rod, and love the child.
Then maybe they will still love you when they are adults.
Spare the rod, and love the child.
ReplyDeleteThen maybe they will still love you when they are adults.
Remember that the child you are spanking today is the same child who will be choosing your nursing home in 30-40 years.
Ooh boy.
ReplyDeleteI just saw the Royal Princess Charlotte of the Davidian line, stick her tongue to all present sailors, guests and press. I am awaiting official verdict of the Church of England on how to proceed in the mothers room from here. Make no mistake. By the expression on the face of the little Royal it was very clear that it was a deliberate act of human reasoning.
nck
nck 12:50 AM I hope you're joking when you refer to Princess Charlotte as "of the Davidian line" since there's no proof whatsoever that she, or the British royal family for that matter, is descended from King David of Israel.
ReplyDelete5:46
ReplyDeleteI do hope you are able to recognize my entire posting as based on truth and being a joke.
That being said. The throne of England has been 100 percent modelled after the Davidian Kingship. Perhaps you are referring to genetics. Although there is ample proof to link the royals to Julius Ceasar, Marc Anthony, Egyptian Pharaos, the Byzantine Empire, I have no reason to exclude them from the Davidian line. Or are you the type of person that claims Jesus could have been called a "rabbi" without the marriage requirement????
My tongue in cheek remark is based on politics, and ligitimization, I leave the DNA to you although there is plenty proof that the British Royal Family is linked to most so not all Royal houses in history, including the Jewish Royal house.
nck
5:46
ReplyDeleteMy point.
Myth is far stronger than fact.
That's why after every presidential election in the USA people/newspapers are linking the presidents ancestry to european houses. The myth of Camelot. The myth of jesus's child landing in southern france. I ate some fish at the beach where pregnant Mary Magdalene landed and the entire Merovingian dynasty believed they were descended from.
One of the legitimate Kings of Jerusalem even visited the Pasadena AC campus and lectured there in I believe 1984. That absolutely beats Davy Pack's claim as to who will visit his campus.
nck
5:46
ReplyDeleteAnd I am certainly not joking when I say that to a New York museum they moved part of the monastery of one of the God-Kings of Septimania. The influence of that particular bloodline is currently influencing US politics through the Irish vote now that the Brexit "back stop" has become an issue.
Non of the people here knows the people who pull the strings as I do, remember that when questioning my "tongue in cheeks." But yeah, it is 100 procent proven that princess Charlotte is a descendant of coalminers if that satisfies your appetite for argument.
nck
Hey NCK
ReplyDeletehttps://binged.it/2ZPspwk
ReplyDeleteGary, why not view the links/gifs before deciding not to post them?
ReplyDeleteThe one to nck was a pic of Princess Charlotte scowling.
The one to Byker on the other thread was a gif that said "good job". I liked his post.
Not all the gifs that I send say "ur a asshole" (yeah I know it's "an" but I didn't make the gif) like the one to the anonymous jerk on a different thread chastising me for asking for proof. Though I find it hard to understand why you wouldn't post it yet have no problem posting someone's comment of "mother fucker" or WTF when we all know what that means.
It is your forum, so you can do what you want while justifying it by saying you only delete irrelevant posts. But you are one hard one to figure out. 😉
km
Anon @8:36 am. When comments come through with hyperlinks in them, google many times sends them to a spam folder. That is where they were. I don't always look at it every day because I get endless spam. They have been posted.
ReplyDeleteJeezo, Gary. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to deal with people who have been made mentally unstable by years of Armstrongism. Seems like it’s about as bad working in an assylum. No wonder the ministers think most their people are demon influenced or possessed.
DeleteGary, then I owe you an apology. Sorry.
ReplyDeletekm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ljVuO0WDWw
ReplyDeletehere's to you
nck
nck said: "The throne of England has been 100 percent modelled after the Davidian Kingship. Perhaps you are referring to genetics. Although there is ample proof to link the royals to Julius Ceasar, Marc Anthony, Egyptian Pharaos, the Byzantine Empire, I have no reason to exclude them from the Davidian line."
ReplyDeleteI once believed the BI fantasy fiction that Jeremiah traveled to Ireland with a daughter of King Zedekiah and from thence the Davidic line and throne continued down to the present day and QEII. But, I no longer believe it and have proven from my own research this theory to be completely unbiblical and untrue.
Although the British monarchy has been modeled after the Davidic monarchy doesn't mean it is. Similarities aren't proof of connections. I've read some scant reports that the British royal family have supposedly traced their genealogy to various royal houses and personages of ancient history, even the "prophet" Muhammad according to one report. But, it doesn't mean it is true. And even if QEII is descended from the family of King David (as I believe his descendants exist today) it doesn't mean the throne she occupies is the continuation of the Davidic throne since the plain truth is it is not. So just because the elite believe something true in order to claim and derive legitimacy and authority from doesn't mean it is.
2:33
ReplyDeleteI find no fault in your posting.
As a matter of fact I agree.
I do however adhere to the Epsylon theory that the moment a significant portion of a people believes something it can topple into truth and fact. I cited the example of the 1924 picture taken from a skyscraper where 98 percent of the men in the street wore hats because they believed themselves to be decent and civilized men. Just a couple of years later NOT a single person wore a hat. (except perhaps Humphrey Bogart)
I have cited the examples of all the "orders of merits of the russian aristocracy in musea." At one time you better kneel and lick someone of the Order of the Most High Eagle Scout of the Mountain Senior Oak Leaf Order"you filthy slave. Today in a museum one shrugs before the very same medal and aks, "I'm into a cup of coffee, please where can I find one."
nck
James Malm had once proclaimed (I’m paraphrasing here) that everything began to decline at about the time that men stopped wearing hats. Personally, I consider hats to be nothing more than fashion. Some of the hats look quite ridiculous, even the official ones that are associated with certain jobs or levels of authority. These have nothing to do with basic decency or humanity, although fashion often works in tandem with societal attitudes. I always wondered what major league catcher was so admired in the inner city whom everyone started imitating by wearing their ball caps backwards. But, I always liked to see a pretty Latina in a Panama hat. Certain military berets with that long thing to the side that reaches down almost to the shoulder look ridiculous. Cowboy hats are cool, but somehow I never could get into English bowler hats even when Jason Bonham is wearing one. The ones British street cops wear look even dumber with the racing checkerboard band.
ReplyDeleteOh well. It has always been a propensity of a certain subset of society to associate decency or the lack thereof with elements of fashion. In high school, my parental units wouldn’t allow me to keep an Ed “Big Daddy” Roth T-Shirt, even though BDR’s style was about the closest you could find to that of Basil Wolverton. Some of the guys on our track team wore them to practice, and since the t-shirts had to do with racing, it was really cool subtle motivation. But, I had to give it to my cousin, and got warned that if you ordered things through the mail, pornographers would get your name and address and start sending you filth.
I understand conservatism and all that, but what nobody in Armstrongism ever seemed to realize is that any strength when taken to extreme becomes a weakness or liability.
BB
BB
ReplyDeleteI did not speak about my opinion. I spoke about what happens when a significant part of a people or market starts to believe something.
First no one notices, then rapid change. That's why according to Salient, Epsylon theory, stock markets move violently after a certain point and stop sliding slowly up or down.
Still. Enjoyable read.
Nck
I agree with your premise, nck. It's why people worry about Sharia law, white nationalism, and a host of other undercurrents. Twenty per cent can tilt a nation. Scary food for thought.
ReplyDeleteBB