We are to seek "wise counsel". Unfortunately many in the ministry have not been promoted because of their superior "wisdom", Biblical or otherwise. Nor were they given their titles and positions because of their overwhelming love and concern for the brethren they are supposed to be serving. They have their positions because they have demonstrated that they will support whomever signs their paycheck, even if that means going against Biblical principal, moral obligation, common sense, or even their own consciences. Their job is to defend the policies of the organization to which they belong, not necessarily to give sound, thoughtful, or even in many cases Biblical advice. They have proven that many of them are not equipped to give even the most basic financial, marital, child-rearing, or other advice, or to handle mental or emotional problems, domestic abuse, child abuse, addiction issues, or other serious problems people might have. Many have trouble answering even the most basic of Biblical questions, especially if someone challenges the corporate church position on a given topic. They can only resort to repeating the "official" position even if it doesn't answer the given question, or if there are Biblical holes in the argument.
Many brethren have learned the hard way not to share too much personal information with the ministry not just because of the trust and confidentiality concerns, but also because the issue is completely mishandled the majority of the time, and in many cases, the problem is made worse by the "intervention" of the minister. Women, in particular, have learned to be very cautious about confiding any sort of marital issue, because most of the time the problem is never addressed and they are made the scapegoats. The pat answer is almost always that the female in the situation just needs to be more submissive, understanding, sexually available, etc. I have personally witnessed this being the case in everything from cases of domestic abuse to adultery, or porn addiction.
Rather than coming along side their fellow Christians as friends and brethren, gently leading and teaching by example, recognizing the gifts of others and equipping the body to work together and minister to one another, these men have been taught and conditioned to view themselves as some sort of superhuman spiritual gurus, who have all the answers no matter what the issue might be. In their arrogance, they do not know how to simply tell someone "I don't know" or "Let's find out together" or to realize when they are beyond their depth and need to refer the person to someone more qualified to help. Much rarer still will you hear any minister utter words like "I was wrong" or "I'm sorry".
I recently heard a minister in another cog group tell his audience he doesn't give out child rearing advice because he and his wife were not blessed with children of their own, and he had no personal experience to help him understand or relate to the issues people might have in that area. I walked away from that talk with a little more respect for this man, because though I might not agree with him on every issue, he at least showed that he had enough maturity to admit that he personally was not the most qualified person to give advice on this particular issue. This is a rare quality among cog ministry.
These men expect loyalty, trust, and monetary support from their fellow brethren simply because they were "ordained" and given a title by some other religious authority. Some even see themselves as modern day priests or Moses figures, the brethren being their personal "children of Israel". This however denies the Biblical principle of the priesthood of all believers, as well as the fact that we no longer need human priests to mediate between us and God. All Christians must test the spirits, and none of us is obligated to accept bad advice from anyone, minister or not.
Many brethren have learned the hard way not to share too much personal information with the ministry not just because of the trust and confidentiality concerns, but also because the issue is completely mishandled the majority of the time, and in many cases, the problem is made worse by the "intervention" of the minister. Women, in particular, have learned to be very cautious about confiding any sort of marital issue, because most of the time the problem is never addressed and they are made the scapegoats. The pat answer is almost always that the female in the situation just needs to be more submissive, understanding, sexually available, etc. I have personally witnessed this being the case in everything from cases of domestic abuse to adultery, or porn addiction.
Rather than coming along side their fellow Christians as friends and brethren, gently leading and teaching by example, recognizing the gifts of others and equipping the body to work together and minister to one another, these men have been taught and conditioned to view themselves as some sort of superhuman spiritual gurus, who have all the answers no matter what the issue might be. In their arrogance, they do not know how to simply tell someone "I don't know" or "Let's find out together" or to realize when they are beyond their depth and need to refer the person to someone more qualified to help. Much rarer still will you hear any minister utter words like "I was wrong" or "I'm sorry".
I recently heard a minister in another cog group tell his audience he doesn't give out child rearing advice because he and his wife were not blessed with children of their own, and he had no personal experience to help him understand or relate to the issues people might have in that area. I walked away from that talk with a little more respect for this man, because though I might not agree with him on every issue, he at least showed that he had enough maturity to admit that he personally was not the most qualified person to give advice on this particular issue. This is a rare quality among cog ministry.
These men expect loyalty, trust, and monetary support from their fellow brethren simply because they were "ordained" and given a title by some other religious authority. Some even see themselves as modern day priests or Moses figures, the brethren being their personal "children of Israel". This however denies the Biblical principle of the priesthood of all believers, as well as the fact that we no longer need human priests to mediate between us and God. All Christians must test the spirits, and none of us is obligated to accept bad advice from anyone, minister or not.
Concerned Sister
This is not only a problem in LCG but is also the same issue in United Church of God. There are some truly horrible men in leadership positions who are causing serious harm to members. Nothing is confidential to them and freely share it with their wives who then gossip to their circle of friends and soon it is all through the church.
ReplyDeleteRod Meredith set the pattern early on when he hired Dave Pack and then refused to listen to literally hundreds of complaints by members who experienced his insanity. Of course, if Meredith had fired Pack before 1995, United would probably have been happy to have him.
ReplyDeleteThe last time I counseled with a minister in Charlotte, my wife heard the minister's wife laughing about it with a group of other women. The ministers of LCG have no business discussing any counseling session with their wives and naming names. It is unethical and certain not a Christian thing to to do. LCG is opening its self up to a lawsuit.
ReplyDeleteI also had a problem with a ministers wife. I was casually talking to her about some problems we were having with our teenage son. She told her husband who then made a point of humiliating him in front of his friends. We told our children that they no longer had to attend church if they did not want to. My husband and I left shortly afterward.
ReplyDeleteThe sad realization that nothing will come from this posting and the comments. The men in Charlotte will sit there on their fat asses getting all righteous and indignant that anyone dares criticize them. They closely monitor this blog and are well aware of the things said here. But they are so self-righteous that they would never admit members of LCG are having an issue with them. To do so would be publicly admitting they have issues and that this blog has shamed them into action.
ReplyDeleteThe only way that any of the bullies in Charlotte will ever blink an eye is if their paychecks are affected. That's it. The LCG Ministry, and other splinter groups, have perfected the art of being abusers in the name of God, robbing their members, and getting away with it for far too long. They sit there in their bully pulpit, and mistreat the members without a concern in the world about it. This is as close to the definition of wickedness that you'll ever find.
ReplyDeleteDisgusted, I'm glad you said "enough is enough" and left. For those who, for whatever reason cannot leave, "sanctions" are the only way to create change. I would consider withholding your tithes. They might end up disfellowshipping you, which actually would end the abuse on your end once and for all.
Nobody deserves to be bullied. Whether in kingergarten, pre-school, elementary school, high school, college, work, at home, and, especially, by "pastors" who you entrust your spiritual care. I hope you agree that enough is enough. You and your families deserve better.
This has been going on forever. Back in the Seventies I spoke with Dean Blackwell in private about an issue in his office on the Big Sandy campus. It was a pretty unsatisfying, rambling discussion. A few days later, I passed a group of women and overheard and Blackwell's office administrator was talking about my issue with some other women. I have no idea how she was able to hear my discussion with Blackwell.
ReplyDeleteYou just have to realize that these people aren't real ministers. They went to an unaccredited little church college run by a cult. The lack of professionalism is breathtaking. But, alas, I am not sure the Christian churches are any different on this point.
And now for some good news (humanity related)
ReplyDeletehttps://humanprogress.org/article.php?p=842
Despite all the troubles in the world, a lot of good things are being accomplished.
And some think this only a problem in LCG well it is not, COGWA sets the standard for slimy little men who ridicule everyone else but never look in the mirror. Moreover, they are now putting ministers of low intellect and knowledge of anything biblical into vacant slots who will never think for themselves only company line. The problem stems from no growth, money that does come in goes to feather their own nest and tell the world what a great job they're doing In their last in accord meeker tell how they went all over Africa and how he flew several hundred miles to talk to a prospective member. They waste money all over the place on such foolishness when their members here in the states can't even get help for the feast or anything else. Oh sorry, you have to much saved for the feast from social security. This amount won't cover hotel room never mind gas meals or anything else. The feast for themselves is great they have plenty of money from everyone else's money. Do they ever get off their lazy butt and go and earn a living with their hands. Roanoke is a prime example of this ungodliness.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to say that I never fully trusted these mother fuckers once I joined the cult. Never did.
ReplyDeleteThen I started studying the cult and the rest is history.
It takes some balls to walk away from everything you held dear and ADMIT that you were wrong to family and friends. Those who have been hanging on to armstrongism are either ministers concerned with a pay check or the cowardly that are afraid of their own shadow.
As a teenager I suffered very painful menstrual cramps, so painful that for the first two or three days of my cycle, I would writhe in excruciating torture. I went to an elder to ask for anointing after a holy day service. He actually laughed in my face, but eventually (although reluctantly) anointed me. Of course the pain did not lessen. I felt extremely humiliated by this man’s very insensitive reaction to my request. What a bully.
ReplyDeleteLiving Church of God has problems with its ministers because their hierarchy in Charlotte is immoral and corrupt. The field ministers see the corruption and think they can get by with it too. In the meantime, members suffer.
ReplyDelete4:58 said: “As a teenager I suffered very painful menstrual cramps, so painful that for the first two or three days of my cycle, I would writhe in excruciating torture. I went to an elder to ask for anointing after a holy day service. He actually laughed in my face, but eventually (although reluctantly) anointed me. Of course the pain did not lessen. I felt extremely humiliated by this man’s very insensitive reaction to my request. What a bully.”
ReplyDeleteI’m so sorry to hear of your experience!🥺 That’s just so ignorant and uncharitable of him! 🤦♂️ Proves the timeless words of the Bard of Avon: “He jests at scars that never felt a wound.” If it had been his mother, sister, wife or daughter—even himself!—that was suffering the same intensity of pain as you were I’m sure his reaction would’ve been different!
4:40, Did you ever call the Roanoke police? Their non-emergency number is 540-344-6681.
ReplyDeleteThe county police number is 540-562-3265 if that's more appropriate.
Dear brothers
ReplyDeleteThis comment is very unfair, it is very sad to read this, many may ask, why do you read it if you feel sorry? Well, because we need to know what happens in the world and in the dispersion of God's people. It is amazing to see people who, protected by the current media, use these networks to increase slander and evil.
Here we read a worried sister, and she does well to worry about some things that may be punctual, but she should ask herself: Would Jesus Christ act like this? Does she have the absolute truth of the facts she poses? I ask her. Why is my version of the facts diametrically opposed and I cannot see what you see? I don't know someone in Latin America like the one she describes, I don't receive money and nobody pays me to say this, but it's the reality that I perceive in men who have given me an example of their own wisdom and love. towards others.
Someday we will realize for every vain and malicious word we say, this will not be left alone in the memory of a blog like this, let's not fool ourselves, there is a trial that is currently in force in the house of God, let's not be innocent thinking It won't happen Nothing if I throw some yeast in the dough.
Humberto Barraza
If you are brave publish this!
ReplyDeleteThis comment is very unfair, it is very sad to read this, many may ask, why do you read it if you feel sorry? Well, because we need to know what happens in the world and in the dispersion of God's people. It is amazing to see people who, protected by the current media, use these networks to increase slander and evil.
Here we read a worried sister, and she does well to worry about some things that may be punctual, but she should ask herself: Would Jesus Christ act like this? Does she have the absolute truth of the facts she poses? I ask her. Why is my version of the facts diametrically opposed and I cannot see what you see? I don't know someone in Latin America like the one she describes, I don't receive money and nobody pays me to say this, but it's the reality that I perceive in men who have given me an example of their own wisdom and love. towards others.
Someday we will realize for every vain and malicious word we say, this will not be left alone in the memory of a blog like this, let's not fool ourselves, there is a trial that is currently in force in the house of God, let's not be innocent thinking It won't happen Nothing if I throw some yeast in the dough.
Humberto Barraza
Let's face it there are problems with the vast majority of the Ministry throughout all the WCG splinters. The COG splinter wars have made the situation far worse but it was a problem from the early days of WCG.
ReplyDeleteTurning to God is the answer but sadly the seems to be a Atheist, faithless, heartless uprising from within the very ministry of the COG movement.
6:38 What purpose would there be in calling the police? I think you know that nothing would come from that. It sounds like you are of the belief that if something is not worthy of arrest it is okay for a church to do.
ReplyDeleteHumberto
ReplyDeleteWhat in the hell are you talking about? Your comment makes no sense at all. The original post was written by a woman WITH the facts. Are you telling her to shut up and let LCG abuse her some more? I don't think so!
It makes perfect sense to the Kool Aid drinkers. Humberto’s sentiments are probably typical of many of the ACOG members. And, therein lies the problem. It’s an artificail construct integral to the Armstrong scam.
DeleteBB
NEO
ReplyDeleteI read on another blog that an elder once reported a major sin by Dean Blackwell to HQ. The response was that the elder was humiliated by being forced to get baptised again, i.e., don't criticize your minister. I haven't had this confirmed, but it's consistent with church culture.
Dean Blackwell was an adulterer and his brother Lowell was into wife swapping. Dean never lost his job, Lowell did and then was hired back in one of the splinter cults. UCG, I think.
ReplyDeleteHypocritical ministers aren't just an LCG problem. To be honest, hypocritical (and paranoid) members aren't just and LCG problem, either. There are many pathologies common to all the splinters, and to the entire human race.
ReplyDeleteOne area, though, where LCG is indeed different involves the matter of competition. HWA taught that competition was the way of Satan. RCM, however, never conquered his competitive nature. Throughout his life, he constantly put people into competition with each other. Sometimes he did this to strengthen his own power, as two people competing against each other would each look to RCM for support instead of competing against him. Other times, he did this to determine for himself which person was worth saving in a bad marriage, or which minister to promote. I think he even instigated competition sometimes just for his own amusement.
Yes, you will find competition occurring in other splinters. Only in LCG, however, is competition treated as a virtue rather than a flaw.
jim, 4:40 has been saying that the authorities should examine COGWA in Roanoke. See for example 2:34 at "Victims of Kevin Owen Dean Encouraged to Contact US Marshal's Office"
ReplyDeleteSo perhaps something would come from that.
I don't see how you drew your conclusion. I would never defend the kinds of things that COGWA does. Even without knowing the specifics of what they do, I know Jim Franks well enough that I would never join COGWA.
I suppose I read your response in a vacuum. To me it sounded as if you were saying, call the police” in a mocking way.
DeleteI understand now what you were meaning and agree with your thoughts on cogwa.
My apologies...
12.58 PM
ReplyDeleteRCM did boxing, so he understood that competition was a virtue. HWA lied when he labeled competition a sin. From his advertising training, he also knew it to be a virtue. What happened was that HWA embraced Marxism and projected it into the bible. It still permeates all the splinters.
Humberto uses the age old, by WCG standards, "keep quiet because you don't know the facts" used by the so called "ministry".
ReplyDeleteHe also uses the "spreading slander and evil" accusation, that was used often, to suppress the truth.
Humberto really needs to contemplate his own words:
"Someday we will realize for every vain and malicious word we say, this will not be left alone in the memory of a blog like this, let's not fool ourselves, there is a trial that is currently in force in the house of God"
Humbrrto, God is judging you too, defending a corrupt "clergy class" who devour God's children won't fare well in said judgement.
Perhaps you should go back and reread the warnings of the prophets against false shepherds.
km
The latest Living Church News is a ministerial whine-fest.The editorial by Weston is titled, "I Was Wrong" but as you might have guessed, there is no owning up to anything he has ever done wrong in the ministry and instead, appears to attack who sounds like Dennis in the third paragraph.
ReplyDelete"On another occasion, I received a letter from a former associate pastor decades after we had worked together. He had various complaints against me, including instances that I couldn't remember. Now, I could understand why he might be upset about some situations, even though I had offered him correction for legitimate reasons, but for the most part it was stuff he should have gotten over long ago. What was interesting was that he put no return address on the letter; he did not want a reply. He simply wanted to "get it off his chest," perhaps as a form of therapy."
The article proves LCG HQ reads every word of this blog and instead of being corrected or allowing Jesus to soften their heartd just a little bit, choose to double down in their arrogance. If someone is willing to post the article, there is a lot of material. Here is just one quote:
"The point is that we all see matters from our own perspective, and life and work in the ministry is not always exactly what some members may imagine it is. Children often think a parent cannot understand them, but children have never experienced parenthood, whereas every parent has been a child. In the same way- though I am by no means comparing members with children [BUT I AM!] -all of us in the ministry have been lay members."
SSS
I am by no means comparing members with children [BUT I AM!] -all of us in the ministry have been lay members."
ReplyDeleteIs Weston deliberately lying, or is he really just that stupid? Rod and Jonathan McNair have never been lay members. They each grew up as the spoiled child of a WCG evangelist, and from their youth each learned how to throw his weight around in a way that would have never been possible for an actual lay member.
Mostly ministers kids in that photo. One of the “graduates” is known for being quite the sleazeball who cheated on his girlfriend at camp.
ReplyDelete