For decades the Church of God movement has claimed it is the only church on earth that practices first century Christianity" just as the early Christians and apostles did. After 80 some years of failed prophecies, outright lies, sexual shenanigans, theft of tithe money for personal gain, hundreds and hundreds of splinter personality cults, these self-appointed morons claim they are God's new chosen leaders. How can any of these groups say such a thing and keep a straight face?
United Church of God made the claim this week in a press release to inform the world that they were celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles.
PRESS RELEASE: 14,000 Gather to Celebrate Life’s Dynamic Spiritual FocusChurch Follows Example of First Century Disciples
CINCINNATI [Sept. 6, 2018]—Reflecting a dynamic life journey as spiritual pilgrims, about 14,000 members and families of the United Church of God, an International Association , will follow the historic example of Jesus Christ and the first century Church in celebrating the biblically prophesied Kingdom of God. This annual festival, called the Feast of Tabernacles in the Bible, begins on the evening of September 23 and lasts through sunset on Monday, October 1. According to Victor Kubik, Church president, United Church of God members will assemble at more than 65 sites worldwide to take part in a contemporary Christian application of the biblical ancient Hebrew Holy Days.Jesus must really be impressed that they and 8 other churches are meeting in locations where none of them will associate with each other. Jesus must really be impressed as he watched them connive and plan to break away from the WCG while still on the payroll. Jesus must really have been impressed when they started acting so nasty that their church imploded and close to 3/4 of their ministers left to form yet another splinter group. Yep, that certainly is 1st century Christianity. True religion at its core. NOT!
Then today, we had another splinter cult leader make the same obnoxious claim. This time it was a rebellious self-appointed liar who broke away from the Living Church of God to form his own personality cult, where he claims he and he alone is practicing 1st century Christianity.
The physical head of the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God was the late Herbert W. Armstrong. What he taught has been derided as “Armstrongism.” What were some of those teachings? Was the old Worldwide Church of God some type of weird cult or did it strive to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints? Is “Armstrongism” improperly maligned and falsely described at GotQuestions.com? Are concepts such as the tribes of Israel, ‘soul sleep,’ and three resurrections unique to Herbert W. Armstrong or were they long part of original Nazarene Christianity? What about various holidays and Christianity? In this video, Dr. Thiel goes over his early experiences with “Armstrongism” as well as gives scriptures about persecutions that would affect Christians.None of these idiots can be trusted to teach any truth that even resembles 1st-century Christian practices and thought. No real Christian would ever place their trust in any of these men nor believe their lies.
Actually, the part about "nine different sects that don't fellowship with each other" is one of the few ways in which the ACOGs are in fact very much like first century Christianity, which from early on included Pauline Christians, Jewish Christians, and Gnostic Christians, of various doctrines and practices.
ReplyDeleteSomehow, though, all of these modern groups believe that the residents of Jerusalem waved branches at Jesus Christ when he entered Jerusalem prior to his crucifixion. They go on at length about type/antitype and foreshadowings in scripture. Yet, when it comes to the Bible's command to build booths out of branches for the Feast of Tabernacles, they twist the BIble's plain teachings into a strange custom of paying to stay at hotels as if this fulfills the Biblical command. Can they wave a Hilton or Marriott hotel at the returning Jesus? No! Do they care? Not as long as their members send in lots of offerings!
Defenders of Armstrongism describe it purely in terms of its published theology. But that is not the core of the religion. After all, the number of resurrections has no impact on members lives. The church culture is one of the ministers giving spiritual milk from the pulpit, with the ministers meddling dealings with the members imparting its true unstated moral beliefs. These beliefs are pure bully morality, ie, 'what's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine'. This is the true church culture, and is why the church fell apart and keeps falling apart.
ReplyDelete6.19 PM, is that you Dennis?
Does this mean "first century Christianity" compelled "first century Christians" to tithe up to 30% of their wages and keep the FOT as a mandatory 8-day annual holiday in the fall at some church administration authorized interstate or international spot?
ReplyDeleteOh pa-lease!
If anything these 2 man-made HWA doctrines prove he was a master at deceiving and controlling his followers even 30 years after his death!
Biblical tithing was never on money. It was on animals and plants, the tithes of which were given to the landless Levites who then gave a "tithe of the tithe" to the Aaronic priesthood (www.truthforfree.com/files/PDF/REK-Tithing3.pdf). The NT advocates voluntary donations to the poor and needy not mandatory tithing on money to ministers. This Armstrongist tradition is akin to prosperity theology preachers that manipulate people into giving money to their work in hope of being healed or healthier or wealthier in return (see 1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Peter 2:3). Also, where in the Bible does Jesus, His apostles or the early Church ask for a collection plate to be passed around for money on weekly/annual Sabbaths as ACOGs traditionally do?
Every year the FOT approached I grew more aware how it was an unnecessary economic burden imposed on members and nothing more than an example of self-indulgence. Nowhere in the NT did Christ oblige His followers the world over to keep the FOT as Armstrongists do today. In the OT God instructed the Israelites to observe 3 pilgrimage feasts in Jerusalem where His Temple was. In the NT early Christians, like the Diaspora, observed the holy days locally. I don’t understand why COG members put up with this Armstrongist tradition when IMHO it’d be more liberating for everyone if they kept the FOT like they do the other holy days (including the 2 other pilgrimage feasts Passover/FOUB and Pentecost BTW). This way members and families have the freedom to choose: 1) if they want (or can afford) to go on holiday (in the first place); 2) when they want; 3) where they want; 4) and even meet at whichever local church group where they’re at—just like Jews and Christians do with all their holidays the world over.
Will they repent and change to truly reflect Biblical/NT/first century Christianity though remains to be seen...
It seems to me that the “fruits of the Spirit” do not include money, power and lies. With the cogs, it’s all about money, power and lies.
ReplyDeleteHow did we get transported back in time to 2018?
ReplyDeleteThe Jewish Messianic groups are probably the closest to it - after all, it did start as a Jewish religious movement by a group of Jews.
ReplyDeleteAnon, October 14, 2019 at 9:54 AM, asked: "How did we get transported back in time to 2018?"
ReplyDeleteThat's a good question...almost like Doug Winnail repeating previously comments he already posted in past years with very little editing.
Putting 2018 aside, another site posted the following, apparently with edited dates:
Regarding the United Ass. press release by Victor Kubik, 3 Oct 2019, Victor mentions:
“…CINCINNATI — Advancing a dynamic life journey as dedicated spiritual pilgrims, about 14,000 members and families of the United Church of God, an International Association, will gather to observe the Christ-centered biblical Festival of Tabernacles October 14-21—an eight-day season that portends a future time of unprecedented peace…”
It is very obvious that the United leadership is turning a blind eye to the Eighth Day, a separate Festival, on October 21. Biblically, the Feast of Tabernacles lasts through sunset on Sunday, October 20. The United Ass. Leadership appears to have lost sight on God’s seventh annual Festival: the Eighth Day, which occurs on 21 October 21.
To further illustrate their blindness to the distinctiveness of both Festivals, the press release went on to say: “…Church members follow the historic example of Jesus Christ and the first century Church in observing this time of celebration, which biblically reflects the coming Kingdom of God as prophesied by Jesus Himself…”
And that is not true, b/c Jesus Christ knew the difference between both Festivals. He specifically makes reference to the Eighth Day in John 7.
:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
And God’s Spirit will be poured out on that Eighth Day, and all will thirst and all will believe b/c of the reception of that Spirit (Ephesians 1:19 “And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,”).
Something that would possibly help the United Ass. out, or any of that xcogs for that matter, is to continue to ask the question on every Festival’s holy convocation: “Why are we here?” God’s 6th and 7th annual Festivals are not to be combined together. God has them separate for a reason. Jesus Christ, of the Bible, was not confused. United Ass. appears to be locked into “another Jesus.”
John
John, The seventh day of tabernacles was the day that Jesus said "if any man thirst let him come unto me" meaning the seventh day pictures the millennium and the GWTJ. The seventh day was the traditional water ceremony. The seventh day is when God's Spirit will be poured out on any "man" who thirsts.
ReplyDeleteThe eighth day there are no more physical tabernacles there will be no more flesh on the eighth day, all will be Spirit.
The eighth day pictures eternity when God's plan has been accomplished.
km
Km, the 7th day of the Feast of Tabernacles isn't even a holy convocation; that should tell you something.
ReplyDeleteGod's primary focus is on the 1st and 8th days...not some 7th day.
God's Spirit will not be poured out on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th day of the Feast of Tabernacles.
Time will tell...
John
John
John, what does the seventh day not being a holy convocation have to do with anything?
ReplyDeleteIf the eighth day were to picture the GWTJ when the vast majority are resurrected back in to temporary physical fleshly bodies then why aren't there eight days living in tabernacles?
You know as well as I that the meanings of the days aren't spelled out anywhere in the bible, one must use a little common sense to figure them put.
Why the seven days in temporary dwellings if it doesn't picture the time period of mankind in physical bodies? I don't care if it's a million years or seven thousand, the temporary dwellings pictures our fleshly bodies.
There is no physical tabernacle on the eighth day. There will be no flesh on the last day.
Whether you want to admit it or not the only logical day picturing Jesus' physical Kingdom during the millennium, and the final GWTJ when the vast majority are resurrected into physical bodies is the seventh day. The final holy convocation on the eighth day is significant because it pictures the finalization of God's plan. No more flesh!
Believe what you want I don't care, but HWA was wrong!
km
John, are your arguments based upon the same things as Herbies? That the Jews don't understand their own festivals? The seventh day was the culmination of the daily water pouring. Water was everywhere on the seventh day. Look it up. The seventh day of tabernacles was the Last Great Day, the ultimate water ceremony.
ReplyDeleteYour own argument proves you wrong. Tabernacles had seven days, the eighth day was only one day.
Jesus cried out on the "last day of what?". The eighth day feast had no "last day", it was only one day.
The last day of the feast is the seventh day.
km
km, October 20, 2019 at 2:57 PM, wrote :...The eighth day there are no more physical tabernacles there will be no more flesh on the eighth day, all will be Spirit..."
ReplyDeleteWhere did you learn that?
Here is one characteristic of the males in the Eighth Day:
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that [is] among the children of Israel." Ezekiel 44:9
That sounds physical (flesh, blood and bone) to me!
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
That's for the Eighth Day too. That is very physical. Ezekiel knew about this event, too.
Ezekiel 37:1 ¶ The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which [was] full of bones,
2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, [there were] very many in the open valley; and, lo, [they were] very dry. [{valley: or, champaign }
]3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD.
7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but [there was] no breath in them.
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. [{wind: or, breath }
]10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Those verses are Eighth Day related, also.
Time will tell...
John
km, October 22, 2019 at 3:52 PM, asked: "...Why the seven days in temporary dwellings if it doesn't picture the time period of mankind in physical bodies?..."
ReplyDeleteWhere did you get that? What scriptures are you using?
Among other things, doesn't the Feast of Tabernacles (booths, temporary dwellings) have something to do with the 7 Churches (Rev 2-3)?, composed of sealed Firstfruits in temporary dwellings, which make up the Bride? Doesn't the FoT picture the marriage of the Groom to the Bride? Without that marriage there wouldn't be an Eighth Day. Don't children come after the marriage and not the other way around?
God is dealing with one huge Harvest. God has harvested the first of the Firstfruits, Jesus Christ (Groom). God is in the process of harvesting the rest of the Firstfruits (Bride). And in the Eighth Day the billions of the rest of humanity will be resurrected/harvested...all done decently and in order.
If that weren't enough, where now is Jesus Christ? In Heaven, ruling God's Church, at the Father's right hand. How long will He be there? Until all enemies are subdued. Death is an enemy. Satan is an enemy.
Why would Jesus be on earth at the beginning of some Mickey Mouse Millennium, ruling on earth for 1,000 years, and Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit, the world is again deceived, Jerusalem is taken over, etc.? Where was Jesus Christ? Why didn't He do something to stop Satan?
Aren't the 144,000 sealed Firstfruits, immediately after coming up in the first resurrection, meet Jesus in the clouds, and follow Jesus, the Lamb, to Heaven where they will dwell for 1,000 years and a little/short time/season, before returning to earth? Yes, Heaven will be a temporary location where they reside...not to remain there forever.
Kind of like Noah, his wife, 3 sons and their wives, in the temporary booth of an ark. That was 8 people = 1+7. May that be a hint of the Groom + Bride (7 Churches, eras, congregations) in a future temporary dwelling?
BTW, do you have something against flesh existing in the Eighth day?
Aren't the meek going to inherit earth?
Psalm 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
How would you like to have a heart like that? One that lives forever. It's speaking physical; read the context in Psalm 22. Do you think God can't accomplish that?
Time will tell...
John
km, October 22, 2019 at 4:03 PM asked: "...John, are your arguments based upon the same things as Herbies? That the Jews don't understand their own festivals?..."
ReplyDeleteNo, and no.
KM wrote: "...Jesus cried out on the "last day of what?". The eighth day feast had no "last day", it was only one day. The last day of the feast is the seventh day..."
John 7:37 In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
The FoT lasts 7 days, but only the first day is the holy convocation calling for the people to gather together. The Feast was still 7 days: lots of fellowshipping, enjoying meals, etc.
The Eighth Day is also a Feast, a separate Feast, and a holy convocation for the people to gather together. Jesus spoke on that Eighth Day, aka "the last day," aka "that great day of the feast." And in the Eighth Day when billions of human beings are resurrected in that second resurrection (there is no need for a 3rd), they will all thirst. I prefer to call the Eighth Day, God's 7th annual Festival, the Great Last Day...the last annual Festival and a great day at that.
We learned in WCG to call that 8th day as the Last Great Day, and you refer to the Eighth Day as "The Last Great Day." But if that were true, then what would be the First Great Day?
The Sabbath day occurs every 7 days, and it pictures a time of rest, week after week...looking forward to the fulfillment of that 7th annual Festival! Good news, and nothing Mickey Mouse about it.
Oh, and yes, I agree! "...The last day of the feast is the seventh day:" the last day of the feast of Tabernacles!
And yes, the Eighth day is only one day, but it will go on forever. Hence, there was no reason for God to say: "And the evening and the morning were the seventh day."
Hey, maybe, people may yet live "happily forever" after all, but...
Time will tell...
John
Wow John, you're blind! The Ezekiel prophecies that you reference are during the millennium and GWTJ, not the eighth day.
ReplyDeleteI have no desire to read through all of your garbage. I just want to make one point. You claimed that the seventh day couldn't be the "great" day because it wasn't a holy convocation. Ok, let's continue with that logic (I mean illogic).
The Passover was on the 14th, it wasn't a holy convocation, so according to your reasoning insignificant in regards to B d's overall plan. Are you able to see the ultimate ramifications of your illogic?
Now look at the feasts that bookend God's year. The first starts with the Passover on the 14th which was not a holy convocation. What does it picture?
I'll tell you after I explain unleavened bread to you. The seven days of unleavened bread picture the time period that God is giving mankind to come out of sin. Whether that's seven thousand literal years or merely symbolic, who cares.
The 14th Passover which came before the seven days pictures past eternity when the lamb (Jesus) was slain from before the foundation of the world.
The other bookend is the feast of tabernacles picturing the same time period but emphasizing how we are in temporary physical tabernacles. Agaon whether seven thousand literal years or merely symbolic, who cares. Then on the eighth day we have eternity future. When God's plan has been accomplished.
The 14th Passover equals eternity past.
The eighth day pictures eternity future.
If you want to cling to HWA's lie that the eighth day pictures the GWTJ fine, but realize you're clinging to HWA.
km
"We learned in WCG to call that 8th day as the Last Great Day, and you refer to the Eighth Day as "The Last Great Day." But if that were true, then what would be the First Great Day?"
ReplyDeleteWhat?????
John, you had best reread everything again. I never once called the eighth day the last great day, you are the one saying that, at least until your last few paragraphs.
John, you are confused.
I've been saying all along that the seventh day of tabernacles was the last great day and the eighth day pictures eternity.
Quit trying to twist what is being said.
km
Are you serious John? Asking where I get the idea that seven days of tabernacles pictures our living in fleshly bodies? Have you not read your bible. Paul saying it was time to put off this tabernacles? Abraham a pilgrim looking for a permanent home?
ReplyDeleteWow, you have a lot to learn.
I agree that the eighth day pictures eternity, which is what I've been saying all along. But you have the eighth day picturing the GWTJ when billions will be resurrected back in to physical bodies. The GWTJ will end, which is why I say the seventh day pictures the millennium and GWTJ. Once we're all changed to spirit, including those raised in the GWTJ, then eternity can begin. Eternity which is pictured by the eighth day.
It's really not that complicated John, you're holding on to past HWA lies which are confusing you.
km
John, it kinda sounds like you are pushing SDA garbage eschatology.
ReplyDeleteDesolate earth during millennium, bride in heaven for 1,000 years etc. etc.
I think you've exchanged one mini god HWA for another EGW.
John, next you'll be telling us that we will live eternally as flesh and bone rather than flesh and blood. Oh the foolishness of SDA theology!
ReplyDeleteAnon, October 24, 2019 at 3:52 AM, said: "...Desolate earth during millennium, bride in heaven for 1,000 years etc. etc..."
ReplyDeleteNot a desolate earth, because with Satan in a pit and unable to control human beings (I John 3:8; James 4:5; Eph 2:2, 2 Tim 2:26, etc.) for a 1,000 years like he does with his angels today: it will become like a human utopia on earth...not desolate as you had learned from somebody.
Time will tell...
John