Living Church of God has apparently told its ministers to stop their long-winded sermons and shorten their delivery time. After scores of LCG members complaining here about boring sermons and ungodly sermon lengths, LCG has acted. A truly effective speaker can get his message across in 20 - 30 minutes and not bore people out of their skulls with 60-80 minute sermons. Just because a minister quotes hundreds of bible verses does NOT make him a scholar or an authority on the topic he is speaking about. Just look at Bob Thiel!
Laodicean Move?While listening to a live LCG sermon today, the preacher said that they (the preachers) had been directed to keep their sermons under an hour. I have also noticed that their sermons have gotten shorter (under an hour when they have typically been 60-80 minutes). This can be verified by looking up some recent sermons on their website (note that it can take 4 months or more for them to post sermons so some "recent" ones may actually be from before the change - great timing for when they would be expected to tell the brethren to flee, right?). I think this limits their teaching and weakens their edification of the body of Christ. Just in case any of the preachers have been trying to keep a Philadelphian work, this makes it a bit more difficult to feed the flock.
I had been told of this change in LCG before. As far as LCG knowing when to flee, unless it changes some of its prophetic positions (which they admitted to me were wrong and promised to change by February of 2012), they obviously will not possibly know when to flee. Shortening or lengthening their sermons will not affect that.
The sheer lunacy of Armstrongism continues on unabated.
The joke is on Prophet Bob. There is no one right time to flee LCG, just like there's no one right time to flee Prophet Bob.
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't fled already, then there's no doubt about when you should flee. Flee today.
The concept of "when to flee to Petra" is probably both one of the more stupid and yet frightening mistaken notions and misuse of scripture that has ever entered the hearts and minds of the COG ministry. It will never happen and if it does will only do so when some big name gives it a go realizing they are going to die if they don't just do it.
ReplyDeleteEvery one of these nonsense Church of God leaders, Pack, Flurry, Thiel, all of them, will simply live out their theological fantasy at the expense of those taken in by it all, and die like everyone else does sooner or later.
Seems that Bitter Bwana Bob would do well to follow his own advice.
ReplyDeleteBe Thankful and Complain Less
At LCG's feast this year I gave them 1 hour to say what they thought they needed to say. If they continued on, I got up and walked out. Too many interesting things to do than sit and listen to a canned sermon that I have heard repeated over and over for decades.
ReplyDeleteToo bad you sat there for an hour first, since you’ve heard the same sermon over and over again for decades. Ten minutes would have been generous. LOL
DeleteBob's "sanity" has already "fled"!
ReplyDeleteI have listened to speakers who can say more in 40-45 minutes, than others who take up to 1 hour and 45 minutes.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of "when to flee to Petra"
ReplyDeleteICG won't be fleeing, as that doctrine was dropped back when CGI was started.
GTA explained the history of that doctrine in a (short) sermon, beginning with his mother reading about the Red Rose City of Petra in National Geographic.
No one would pay $4.49 for the same milk from the same pallet that was manufactured in 1964 today. Yet that is exactly what people are doing when they pay their "ministers" 10% of their INCOME just to sit and hear the same stale messages they have heard for decades.
ReplyDeleteNo one walks through a thrift store and pays full price for used materials. Yet that's exactly what happens in Armstrongism - except they raise the price a good percentage over actual retail value!
What Armstrongism is selling is junk messaging for a profit. It's useless! It's not even like they are trying to come up with new material for good quality "meat". They simply pull messages out of the trash and expect YOU to pay them for it. It's just like the lunch bully. Taking your income and nothing substantive in return.
It's a con game. Don't give them any more of your time. If a speaker can't cough up a worthwhile message, you shouldn't have to cough up your paycheck for YOUR wasted time.
The home church I fellowship with for years now originally included sermonettes and sermons in their services. Now we’ve cut out the former entirely and listen to sermons that don’t go over 90 minutes. It’s a positive since “The mind can absorb no more than the seat can endure.”
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the followers of Osiris had a Matthew chapter 24 equivalent. They had a sermon on the mount, so why not a Matthew 24?
ReplyDelete"Fleeing to Petra" is right up there with Marshall Applewhite's "the mothership is behind the Hale-Bop comet" and will probably have the same effect.
ReplyDeletethe same stale messages
ReplyDeleteVery early in my WCG attendance, in the 1970s, ministers had just returned from a meeting in Pasadena. One of the "lessons" from the meeting was for ministers to improve their sermons. We were assured we would no longer be subjected to long, boring, rambling messages about the same old topics.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe sermons were worse before I started attending.
The idiots cut God completely out of the equation. If there is any fleeing to be done, God will inform whomever His will is to protect, or He will protect them wherever they happen to be. Club membership has nothing to do with it.
ReplyDeleteBut, if you don't have a very strong message or a magnetic personality, I guess you just have to continually inject a little fear into it.
BB
Bob “rain man” Thiel going on about shortened sermons makes me wonder if he’s on the spectrum...coz frankly who in the world would be worrying about that in our world?! I think he’s got too much time on his hands if he seriously thinks sermon durations are important to Christians! It’s not the length but the substance that matters! smh And with the number of aging members suffering various ailments increasing it’s not helpful to be forced to sit down for over 30-45 minutes at a time besides car travel! It’s torment for someone suffering rectal problems! When transcripts come out of various sermons that have gone for 2 hours I usually can read them in 30 minutes myself saving a lot of time sitting down listening to someone else who loves the sound of their own voice.
ReplyDeleteBB said: “The idiots cut God completely out of the equation. If there is any fleeing to be done, God will inform whomever His will is to protect, or He will protect them wherever they happen to be. Club membership has nothing to do with it.”
ReplyDeleteExactly BB! HWA/WCG only instilled fear into its members about fleeing to the Petraen place of safety. Shows how “of little faith” they really were.
Many members don't comprehend that they are being fed diluted spiritual milk. Reading the odd self help book would make this obvious. But most members are not book readers. This is also the reason why there is not the occasional great sermon, since again this would alert the members to what could and should be.
ReplyDeleteHow do you conclude that most members are not book readers Anon 9:14 ?
DeleteDo members surmise like this?
I have sat through soooo many sermons where the speaker could have made his point in twenty minutes and let everyone go home early or have more time for fellowship. I have sat through soooo many others where by the end of it your mind is numb and you are thinking "What was this guy's point anyway?"... Much of what is said is simply filler or pontificating, and much more is said about the importance of the "ministry" or the importance of the "church" than is said about the importance of Jesus Christ. Whether done indirectly or overtly, it is more about waving your corporate church flag and expressing loyalty to it's leader than it is about pointing to Jesus Christ and becoming a functioning part of His spiritual body.
ReplyDeleteIt also seems that as many of these men get older, their speaking tends to meander as much as their minds do. I have sat through only a few sermons that I would characterize as truly interesting, thought provoking, or well worth the time I put into getting ready for, driving to, and sitting through them. I have sat through quite a few, where I could readily recognize the manipulation or misrepresentation of scriptures or other "facts" in order for the guy to back up his point, whether it was purposely done, or done out of ignorance simply because the man was touting the corporate position on a given topic. It goes without saying that to openly call into question the speaker's position would be tantamount to "rebellion" against "God's government", and would not be tolerated. After all, there are no checks or balances in a top down hierarchy, when the recognized top is whoever sits at "headquarters", and Jesus Christ only gets a passing nod as the true "head".
Many people do not attend services any longer expecting to be spiritually fed in any meaningful way. They attend for whatever fellowship they might get, or because of family ties, or so they can feel that they have checked their box and put their religious time in for the week.
To try to make some sort of connection between length of sermons and being "Laodicean" or not being able to "feed the flock" is just ridiculous. It's about quality people, not quantity. Frankly, shorter sermons are a blessing. It gives people more time to fellowship with others, or to go home and do their own bible study, which is usually a better use of time than warming a seat for two plus hours, just so you can punch your time clock and say you were there.
Concerned Sister
How do you know Concerned Sister that many dont attend services expecting to be spiritually fed ?
Deletegoing on about shortened sermons
ReplyDeleteAs Edward Everett(the keynote speaker at the Gettysburg dedication) wrote to Lincoln, "I should be glad, if I could flatter myself that I came as near to the central idea of the occasion, in two hours, as you did in two minutes."
Marshall Applewhite's "the mothership is behind the Hale-Bop comet"
ReplyDeleteBob would have been a failure in Heaven's Gate. Despite his self-deluded notions of prophethood, poor old Bob hasn't even reached The Ordination Level Above Deacon. He is, however, closer to Gerald Weston's ideal than either of the two probably realize, since many of Thiel's most rambling sermons are in fact several shorter sermons (or sermonette) bunched peculiarly into one long and disjointed sermon. It is rare for Bob to give a single sermon that goes longer than an hour while focusing tightly on just one coherent topic.
if the minister can't make his point in 60 min or less, he shouldn't be up there speaking.
ReplyDelete45-60 minutes is plenty of time....much past 60 and the congregation isn't listening anyway....there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.
SHT,
ReplyDeleteIt's funny that today (at least in COGWA), they do not rehash sermons from the past. They simply say the same thing over and over in their new sermons. I believe they know that trying to show support for the beliefs taught years ago would look very thin and that it would be counterproductive to their maintaining membership.
Instead, today, they simply reference the Truth, the Importance of the Sabbath and Holy Days, Holding Firm, Discern, the Kingdom, the Gospel, etc. Outside of perhaps some occasional textual support for the Sabbath, they generally do not define any of the other terms. They know they cannot without raising doubts in their dogma, so they count on the members just accepting these things as they remember them from years ago and before the internet.
The lives of members would be so much more consistent with the Bible if they simply accepted that those that accept Christ as their Savior and have fruits of repentance are Christian.
It's all a dominance-submission control issue. "They" have the power to make you sit on a folding metal chair for as long as they choose, no matter how many times they repeat themselves, beating a point into the ground. What these ministers fail to grasp is that it is the submissives who are in reality in control. Submissives give power to the dominant by allowing them to domineer. The minute they cease submitting, poof! All the power goes away. What's a minister going to do then? All he can do is falsely state that because you don't obey him, you are going to the lake of fire.
ReplyDeleteBB
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteMarshall Applewhite's "the mothership is behind the Hale-Bop comet"
Bob would have been a failure in Heaven's Gate. Despite his self-deluded notions of prophethood, poor old Bob hasn't even reached The Ordination Level Above Deacon. He is, however, closer to Gerald Weston's ideal than either of the two probably realize, since many of Thiel's most rambling sermons are in fact several shorter sermons (or sermonette) bunched peculiarly into one long and disjointed sermon. It is rare for Bob to give a single sermon that goes longer than an hour while focusing tightly on just one coherent topic.
November 14, 2019 at 5:25 AM
I see my comment went clear over your head. It wasn't about Bob making it in HG. It was about the dangers associated with cults and their escapism promises/threats to members. Most likely winds up killing people.
"""Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the followers of Osiris had a Matthew chapter 24 equivalent. They had a sermon on the mount, so why not a Matthew 24?
November 13, 2019 at 3:43 PM"""
Can you back that up with pre-4 bce documentation?
Didn't think so!
ReplyDeleteSo much for Freke and Gandy's sources. Check out the thirs to last paragraph on page two "Problems With Sources".
Their sources are all from the first three centuries a.d.
www.equip.org/PDF/DM815.pdf
One practical reason back in the day for longer services was to make the distance many drove to get to a church worth it. Neighborhood churches and access to church of choice was, being the only true one of course, was not an option. Once Tkach removed the unique nature of WCG the obvious was "then why drive so far for what is now down the street?"
ReplyDeleteI don't recall one meaningful 20 minute Presbyterian sermon growing up either lol.
Using Paul's example of going on and on in Acts to where someone falls out of the window asleep no doubt and almost dies is no great example either
"I don't recall one meaningful 20 minute Presbyterian sermon growing up either lol.'
ReplyDeleteDon't piss on your true heritage Diehl.
The fact is that your assessment may have been true and therefore formed the basis for a marketshare for Robert Schuler's Chrystal Cathedral.
The only one who truly competed with the World Tomorrow for air time. (according to Arbitron)
nck