Armstrongism had the chance to be taken seriously. For multiple tens of thousands over a period of seventy years and more, it was. Many well-intentioned, God-fearing individuals took the words of Herbert Armstrong as Gospel, equating him as a 20th century Apostle who had been granted divine revelation to restore what seemed to be lacking within the religious confusion of the protestant world scene. Many abandoned everything they had believed - and embraced the new beliefs - with full trust in the words and visions of Herbert Armstrong and the general ministry of the Worldwide Church of God.
The restoration of what was perceived to be original Christianity was completely dependent on the claim that God was speaking through Herbert Armstrong. Of course, for God to actually have been speaking through Herbert Armstrong, there would have had to have been validation. Yet the Church convinced the same tens of thousands of God-fearing people that they indeed did have validation. Validation through physical works orchestrated through a physical organization.
What had to be accomplished to prove and to validate Herbert Armstrong's ideas was very simple: That the period of time of the growth and rise of the Worldwide Church of God was the same period of time as prophesied about in Matthew 24. That the Gospel of the Kingdom would be preached unto the whole world, and then the end should come. What Herbert saw happening around him - to him - was the validation of what, and who, Herbert thought he was. Things were changing, developing, advancing, and modernizing at a breathtaking rate. From Herbert's birth was the horse and buggy, at mid-life was nuclear and atomic power, and late in life was the moon landing and the Space Shuttle and the beginnings of the information age. It certainly appeared at that time - for anyone living in 1986 - that things could have reached a pinnacle that could not be topped without some sort of divine intervention - that we had sealed our doom for certain. And it was this fear that sealed the belief - the wholehearted belief - that Herbert somehow got it right.
Somehow, everything in Revelation that was prophesied - the bowls, the seals, the thunders. The beasts with the horns and crowns. The two witnesses. All of it - according to Herbert, and believed by us - had to do with the period of time from 1930 to 1986. The expectation among the believers was sure. That was absolutely believed to be the final generation of mankind as we know it today. It was unmistakable. Yes, the Worldwide Church of God was that grain of mustard seed that restored original Christianity and restore the Kingdom and Government of God to the whole world right then. Not in ten years, not in twenty years. Then. In three to five years, tops, the Baptized Members would be transformed and changed into spirit beings. The ministry would be transformed and changed into top-level leaders. The children would remain on Earth, guided by their spirit-parents. World war III would break out, in an all out nuclear catastrophe. In just a few years, just before we wiped ourselves to oblivion, Jesus would return on a white horse with His army of angels, the Worldwide Church of God and all original Christianity would be resurrected and meet him somewhere in the middle of our atmosphere, descend and make war with the resistance, set up the Millennium, and restore the Government of God in a very physical way for 1,000 years under God, Christ, and Herbert Armstrong. Lions and wild animals would be tamed, swords would be turned to plowshares, the Sabbath and the Holy Days would be kept by everyone, especially the Feast of Tabernacles, and everything would gradually turn into a magnificent agricultural fountain-filled utopia until the devil would be released one more time for a short period. This was our expectation. This was what was expected in 1950, 1960, 1970, 1980, and 1986. This would have been the validation that Herbert was right. This is what was consistently, adamantly, and without wavering preached as the Word of God that all of us believed fully, waiting for the validation to commence. Just wait - it's going to happen, we'd say. Just a few more years.
The problem is the truth became something totally different. A truth that thousands refuse to look at in the face and see. Here's the truth that many refuse to wake up to. The truth is that the Worldwide Church of God was going to collapse in 1995. The Ambassador College would be shut down. The Ambassador Auditorium would be sold to Pentecostal Charismatics. The Student Center and many Ambassador facilities would go to a mainstream Christian high school. The Church would shrink to a fraction of what it was. There would be no physical world-shattering return of Jesus Christ in 1986, 1990, 2000, 2010, or 2015, no matter how many Armstrong ministers claimed that that would happen. Those who preached prophecies in the name of Armstrongism would be, every time, proven completely false and absolutely wrong. Many would try and some would succeed to raise their own mini-empires, causing Armstrongism to become the very name of confusion that for so many years they harpooned others with. If anyone would have told anyone this truth in the glory days of Armstrongism, they would have been accused of being demon possessed, liars, and evil - and thrown out of the Church and marked. Yet that would not have made any of this any less truth. This is the truth, this is what was destined to happen. This is what the eyes of you and of me see as reality today.
The reason why so many to this day continue to flock to Armstrong Churches in whatever denomination they feel comfortable with (And so many is a relative term - a fraction of what it was, honestly) is because of either two things. One, they hold out hope that they could be right, and that everything was just a little delayed. Or two, they refuse to admit that they were wrong. Either way denies the truth. The truth that history shows as evidence to reality. Yet, neither of these reasons are what holds them to stick with Armstrongism. The only thing that truly binds them to the core falsehoods that Armstrongism propagates is one thing, and one thing only: Fear.
They are afraid. They are afraid of Satan. They are afraid of demons. They are afraid to anger God - and oh, there are so many ways to anger God if you believe in Armstrongism. Eat the wrong food. Drink the wrong drink. Do the wrong thing on the wrong day. Say the wrong thing. Dress the wrong way. Work at the wrong job. Associate with the wrong people. Don't give an offering. Don't pay your tithe. Don't go to church. Disobey a minister. Disobey a deacon. Be weak in faith. Go to church on Sunday not Saturday. And the list goes long and on and on. It is this fear that keeps them rigidly subscribing to a weak, pathetic version of the Law without form and without substance, bound and loosed by ministers who have never truly kept the Law even themselves - breaking it with hypocrisy, pride, arrogance, conceit, lust, love of power, and the love of money. There is no freedom of Christ in this. There never has been. Just pure, unadulterated fear that blinds them of the truth - the very Truth that has every bit of power to set them free from the tired, worn, drug out, repetitious, constant drone of falsehoods that calls itself Armstrongism - held together only be a loose-knit group of social clubs financially supporting proven liars and charlatans feeding like leeches off of the members in a supreme example of stone-cold wickedness, who throw darts and daggers of fear to "keep the money coming" so their false gospel - invalidated for decades - can be preached. Again. There's no freedom here. Never has been. There never will be.
Wake up! Quit being afraid and living in paralyzing fear! Enough!
God has never given anyone a spirit of fear. God only gives a spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind. The truth is? It's Armstrongism that gives a spirit of fear. It has from the beginning. It still does to this day. Armstrongism IS a spirit of fear. And the sooner that people wake up to that fact, face it, and admit it, the closer they become to truly being free. As scripture says, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
You'll never find true freedom in Armstrongism. You never have, you never will. Freedom is only found by Christ in you, the true mystery of the ages.
Submitted by SHT
I suggest this author does a bible study on fear. Fear is one of natures survival mechanisms
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the truth became something totally different ... The truth is that the [WCG] was going to collapse in 1995. The [AC] would be shut down. The [AA] would be sold to Pentecostal Charismatics. The Student Center and many Ambassador facilities would go to a mainstream Christian high school. The Church would shrink to a fraction of what it was.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of Bush I’s prophecy of “a new world order” on 9/11/90. Then the day after 9/11 Gary Hart exclaims "There is a chance, for the President of the United States to use this disaster, to carry out what his father-, a phrase his father used I think only once and hasn't been used since and this is a New World Order.”
Of course, like the saying, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” it’s as though TPTB sought to remold the world in America’s image to fulfil Bush I’s goal of a NWO via his anointed son Bush II, but the truth is the years since 9/11 only changed the image of America in the eyes of the world. We seem to be very poor at prophesying the future.
Well said.
ReplyDeleteThe mustard crop has totally withered, if we are to rely upon any sort of measurable, verifiable statistics. Fortunately a very good herbicide was found!
ReplyDeleteBB
8:45, you completely missed the point! Fear is not of God! You should do a bible study on fear. Maybe you’ll learn a few things.
ReplyDeleteI believe that in cycles certain people are the perfect embodiment of the Zeitgeist (philosophical term) and all signs validate what they do and say.
ReplyDeleteWhen in the 14th century half of the worlds population died from the plague MANY HWA's went around the cities of Europe to preach impending doom and flagelate oneself to bleed and attone for humanities sins.
"Our" HWA went around more heads of state than Henry Kissinger and organised meetups for the corps diplomatique in many hotspots to preach IMPENDING DOOM (mutual assured destruction pentagon strategy) UNLESS there would be intervention and (global capitalist trade.....unseen hand in economic theory).
By provenance 100 percent of hwa's predictions are right and came about, since they were based on the 1939 new york technology world of tomorrow fair.
Today hunger is about to be erradicated through big corporations like cargill, deserts are turned to bloom (by israeli technology to turn salt water into fresh water, man is about to live 99 years and longer as its dna will be propelled to mars by elon musk.
AI will take care of us since it knows us better than we know ourselves and in know our actions in advance and thereby and inhibits 90 percent of attributes commonly attributed to God.
The surveillance state will ensure peace worldwide and the "mark of the beast" is already beingn implemented in China in the form of "social ranking points." Not able to buy a house in a city if you cross the line to often or speak unfavorably about "the gods."
The world tomorrow is NIGH. Our dna is on the brink of being taken to colonize planets AS HWA predicted. "WE" will rule the planets as dna contains "OUR" information.
nck
Up to half of the population of Europe, not the entire world, perished at that time.
DeleteWhoops I forgot to say in my last posting....................
ReplyDeleteI do not believe HWA embodied "the Zeitgeist" of the 20th century....................I believe he was the messenger for those that were.................................aaaaaaaaaaand he believed he was that reporter, newscaster or messenger too, as he confirmed the conferred "apostleship" from 1970 on as his position as a messenger had been validated (except no one knew who his masters were not even hwa since he believed in the bible like most who make stupid assessments on hwa's message........................
nck
The reason why so many to this day continue to flock to Armstrong Churches in whatever denomination they feel comfortable with (And so many is a relative term - a fraction of what it was, honestly) is because of either two things. One, they hold out hope that they could be right, and that everything was just a little delayed. Or two, they refuse to admit that they were wrong.
ReplyDeletePeople today often forget that one of the motivations behind HWA's move to Pasadena was that in the wake of WWII he lost a major portion of his original following. People who had been reading HWA's prophecies since he started the Plain Truth in 1934 were not inclined to follow him after WWII proved him to be a false prophet. The radio let HWA reach new converts who were unaware that just a few years earlier he had affirmed with a prophet's certainty that WWII would focus on Jerusalem and that Christ would return after defeating Hitler and Mussolini, whom HWA identified as the Beast and the False Prophet of Revelation.
One of the best things you can do today for splinter members is to show them copies of HWA's 1934-39 Plain Truth magazines. Many of today's members have never read those magazines for themselves, and when they see the actual magazines they will often become very displeased with their splinter leaders who have whitewashed their contents. A few may even wake up and leave their ACOG when they see for themselves the uninspired nature of HWA's prophecies. Sadly, many will brush off the idiocy of those magazines and will continue to attend their Saturday social clubs, showing that they are primarily attending for fellowship and not for belief.
8:45 Fear is necessary, but to live with a spirit of fear is entirely different.
ReplyDelete4:45, Good points. I suppose Saturday social clubs aren't too bad a thing, though it would be great if they didn't think it secured their place as converted.
"You'll never find true freedom in Armstrongism. You never have, you never will. Freedom is only found by Christ in you, the true mystery of the ages."
ReplyDeleteFunny how Herbert dissed pagans while actually being pagan himself. He called his book "Mystery of the Ages." It's a mystery because those on the outside did not know the secrets privy to those on the inside. That's because Jesus is just Osiris of the Mystery religion. So all things were done in parables to hide the secrets from the uninitiated. Eventually the secrets were forgotten (due to persecution and book burnings) and all that remained was the parables and allegories and the stories of miracles and a literal birth, literal death and ressurection, etc, none of which was literal in the Mystery religions in Egypt in 2500 BC.
The Mystery Religion books by Thomas Harpur and by Tim Freke and Peter Gandy are well research, despite what some on here have said. Don't believe me? Go get a copy from your library.
ReplyDeleteHWA..lost a major portion of his original following..after WWII proved him to be a false prophet.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the fool went for broke up to and during WWII, had to start over again with new suckers.
ReplyDelete11:53 AM and 11:56 AM, and for those who missed it, here is what was said:
Tom Harpur, who wrote The Pagan Christ, was an Anglican priest and journalist who noticed that many of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches came from paganism. He then carelessly assumed that the Bible came from paganism. It did not occur to him that the Bible does not teach what the Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches teach.
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy, who wrote The Jesus Mysteries: Was the “Original Jesus” a Pagan God?, were not real historians. Here is what Bart D. Ehrman has to say about them in his own book called Did Jesus Exist? on page 26 of the hardcover edition (with bolding and CAPITALIZATION added):
“Real historians of antiquity are scandalized by such assertions--or they would be if they bothered to read Freke and Gandy's book. The authors provide no evidence for their claims concerning the standard mythology of the godmen. They cite no sources from the ancient world that can be checked. It is not that they have provided an alternative interpretation of the available evidence. They have not even cited the available evidence. And for good reason. No such evidence exists.”
“What, for example, is the proof that Osiris was born on December 25 before three shepherds? Or that he was crucified? And that his death brought atonement for sin? Or that he returned to life on earth by being raised from the dead? In fact, no ancient source says any such thing about Osiris (or about the other gods). But Freke and Gandy claim that this is common knowledge. And they 'prove' it by quoting other writers from the nineteenth and twentieth centuries who said so. But these writers too do not cite any HISTORICAL evidence.” This is all based on assertion, believed by Freke and Gandy simply because they read it somewhere. This is not serious historical scholarship. It is sensationalist writing driven by a desire to sell books.”
"""Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe Mystery Religion books by Thomas Harpur and by Tim Freke and Peter Gandy are well research, despite what some on here have said. Don't believe me? Go get a copy from your library.
November 14, 2019 at 11:56 AM"""
And yet you still haven't given just one resource from writings prior to Jesus to back up your or their statements.
Again, we know the pagan religions existed, we know Mithraism existed, what we don't know is exactly what they taught. Writings after Jesus telling us what they taught won't suffice.
Just one.
"The restoration of what was perceived to be original Christianity..."
ReplyDeleteOriginal christianity was a synchretistic Hellenizing Jewish mystery cult. Instead of the cult figure being a classical god or demigod, it was a Jewish demigod. In the "pagan" mythologies, it's a common trope that the gods impregnated human women who gave birth to divinely empowered super heroes like Herakles. The cult of Jesus is simply what you get when you borrow that trope and place it in a Jewish setting, in which the Jewish god impregnates a Jewish woman who gives birth to a Jewish demigod, who subsequently embodies the aspirational values of Jewish culture by performing uniquely Jewish "labors." The polemic "pagan" which Roman christianity applied to fight it's religious competition, that is very much a propagandistic misnomer, as christianity is little more than a run-of-the-mill synchretistic pagan mystery cult itself. Christiany sprang Athena-like from the classical religions that were common at the time.
Secondly, while it's readily obvious that classical and christian religions have a shared theological basis, the specific beliefs, practices, and norms of its early initiates is much less clear. The sorts of mysticism, astrology, and occult practices that were commonly accepted in the mid-1st century AD would likely shock and horrify modern church of god cult initiates. Remember that this would long predate any christian canon, which was itself a product of Roman influence to consolidate and unify the fractious and contentious movement, and it would long predate any of the later declarations of dogmas and heresies of later centuries. Early christianity would have been a free-wheeling smorgasbord of disparate beliefs from Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Babylonian, and Persian mysticisms.
I also should point out that there was a roughly 290 year long gap between the undisputed Pauline epistles and the formation of the christian canon, during which it's unclear how much material was later interpolated and redacted from the myriad proliferating copies of christian texts, one variant of which would later find itself canonized. There might be little in the canonized versions remaining from the autographs written by the original author but an underlying skeletal structure. Anything considered unsavory from christianity's early roots by christian redactors of later centuries would likely have simply been deleted from the texts, while the canonization process would have been an exercise in confirmation bias by the early catholic church fathers.
When I discovered how sheltered my upbringing in WCG really was, how I had been told outright lies about the origin of christianity out of one side of the church's mouth, and had been deliberately been kept ignorant about many other aspects of its origin out of the other, I was equal parts shocked and enlightened. I was also disappointed to learn how little my church of god elders and family cared about what was most probably true.
The mustard seed failed to multiply! Must have been the wrong kind of seed!
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteSHT said:. As scripture says, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
You'll never find true freedom in Armstrongism. You never have, you never will. Freedom is only found by Christ in you, the true mystery of the ages.
So now we are back to ALL in the COGs never had and never will have the Spirit of the Lord or Christ in them!
This brings back memories of the mentality that came from Jr. when he declared all are true Christians except for those he was looking at in the rear view mirror on his way to spend real estate money that he worked so hard at procuring.
Most all of the people I knew in the COGs fulfilled the REQUIREMENT to repent and fulfilled the REQUIREMENT to believe and fulfilled the REQUIREMENT to be baptized and fulfilled the REQUIREMENT to having hands laid upon them.
These same people had their minds set on fulfilling all of the other numerous requirements that are written and understood. They also understood completely Matt. 10:28 "but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell".
Freedom was always understood in the COGs as freedom from the consequences and penalty of sin by the sacrifice and shed blood of their savior. The secondary freedom was direct access to the Father via a mediator the high priest Jesus Christ.
The two biggest restrictions to freedoms propagated by the COGs is the mandatory orientation of the member unto a physical priesthood and the establishment of statutes and judgments that are of error, which hinders the worship of God in spirit and truth.
If true freedom is defined as the spirit of the Lord and Christ in a person, then many of those in the COGs have true freedom. If true freedom is being spared the penalty of death by their savior, then many in the COGs have true freedom. If true freedom is direct access to the Father, then many in the COGs have true freedom available to them.
nck have you ever read “The Union Jack” anonymously published in 1970? If so what are your thoughts on it? I’m interested to read it myself.
ReplyDelete4:48 -
ReplyDeleteThis writing isn't invalidating what I have written previously. People in the COG's CAN have the Holy Spirit. When a person puts their trust and faith in Armstrongism and Armstrongism's policies, they bind and chain themselves and remove themselves from that freedom. This is why I said what I said about Armstrongism in this letter.
People can have true freedom as you said in your last paragraph but not know it because they continually tie themselves down with unnecessary burdens and restrictions. The bars on the cells can be wide open but many are content to stay in the cell. Why? Because for them, that's what is comfortable. Freedom is there, it's been given. How many actually feel comfortable taking the leap?
Everyone in Christ has that freedom. That freedom is open to those in the COG's as it is for those who are not in the COG's. The point is that the COG's doctrines and dogmas do everything they can to restrict that freedom with chains and shackles. And many do not know that they are free because their vision is restricted by a veil. They HAVE freedom, but they cannot SEE that they have it because they have believed in lies and untruths which are only provided by deception.
"Original christianity was a synchretistic Hellenizing Jewish mystery cult."
ReplyDeleteBecause one may find similarities between pagan mythologies and the Christian account, it does not mean they are of the same essential predicate. C.S. Lewis observed these similarities and described them in some of his writings. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity:
"... He (God) sent the human race what I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions about a god who dies and comes to life again, and by his death, has somehow given life to men."
The pagan concepts you cite are but a dim reflection of the Christian reality. But this is a long story and I must go to bed.
7:59
ReplyDeleteIt seems SHT's definition of "freedom in christ" was defined by wcg as "the holy spirit working in man" (as the star wars The Force, not a person). It was always taught by wcg that this spirit working in man could be limited or restricted by mans actions contrary to the workings of that spirit.
nck
7:51
ReplyDeleteHello. I have not read that pamphlet. A quick scan of it reveals similarities between my personal musings and the authors.
For instance I have consistently argued that HWA ('s message) was at the heart (not the fringe) of the American Empire's ideology as successor of the British Empire and fueled by the demise of the other empires as demanded by the USA after WWII.
I have cited examples of where ingredients for your mobile phone come from as if there is a "rightfull" claim for those ingredients by the Anglo Empire.
I have cited "five eyes" as the intelligence network to establish "the kingdom on earth."
The difference between me and pamphlets like these is that a) I do no believe in sinister conspiracies. B) I believe in policy makers that over time have met serious difficulties in the dealings of man.
One of the manners to deal with the "problem of mass democracy" given to uneducated masses was the "manufacturing of consent".
Edward Bernays cousin of Freud and leading architecht of THE WORLD OF TOMORROW fair in New York was hired to initiate projects to lead the masses.
Anyway. In my dealings with the "initiated" the true power brokers I have noticed they are kind and determined people. Determined to rid man of the results of their flaws. International trade to make nations co dependent and erridicate war. Other initiatives to erridicate disease.
The point is, as of today Germany makes it obligatory for children to be vaccinated against measles. Conspiracy theorists will scream that hell is about to be unleashed upon us for this.
I am on the side of the powers that be and that is to erradicate irrational thought on measles and protect the population against magic thinking and their irrationality, disease, fear and ultimately death and unhappiness.
nck
Thanks for the reply nck I thought you might find it of interest as skimming through it myself I thought of you and some of the views you’ve shared here. I’ve now added it to my to read list :-)
DeleteAll this freedom in Christ talk asks the reader to look away from reality. Basic reality is that everything has certain characteristics. All elements in the chemistry periodic table have certain physical, electrical traits. A moral code, and a multitude of rules are based on honoring these traits. Hence ordinary glass needs to be handled carefully because of its brittleness. Car tyres require a certain air pressure to maintain their shape. Likewise in gardening, there are thousands of rules. Different plants require a slightly different soil, amount of watering, depth of planting etc.
ReplyDeleteTry this freedom in Christ talk by ignoring gardening rules, or not changing the car engine oil regularly. A good moral, social code is based on honoring what has God created, for the purpose of preserving life, and achieving prosperity.
nck wrote >The world tomorrow is NIGH. Our dna is on the brink of being taken to colonize planets AS HWA predicted. "WE" will rule the planets as dna contains "OUR" information.
ReplyDeleteAnything to make hwa look right huh? Ruling the planets was a mormon idea hwa stoled and was to be as spirit beings. You twist everything.
Jon
ReplyDeleteI have no problems with your Mormon theory.
As a matter of fact I went to see the best grossing musical of all time "The Book of Mormon" of "South Park fame.
It was about Africa rather than "the incredible human potential", but anything to keep you satisfied my friend.
nck
HWA still has many worshippers like nck. Herbs genius was in creating a package deal of some truth combined with much error, and deceiving his followers that it was Gods way.
ReplyDeleteNck and others are deeply in love with this package.
Fear and disinformation work. Remember how the AIDS crisis was going to kill half the people on the planet? Remember how the hippies called the guys who went to Vietnam ... "Baby Killers", and now the same crowd calls for killing babies right up to the time they are in the birth canal?
ReplyDeleteHitler found a villain in the Jews, and turned a civilized society into chaos. Same can be argued about "climate change" and a multitude of other faux issues in the current times.
People are tribal, and love tribal warfare and will believe sociopaths who lead the way. The WCG et al, is one example amongst many.
ReplyDeleteSatan really has DECEIVED the whole world. Consider all the religious confusion in the world with Evilutionists, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, and others.
People really are in BONDAGE to sin and are the servants of sin. Consider how the whole world, including the Catholic church and its numerous Protestant daughter churches, transgresses God's laws, which is what sin is.
Jesus the Messiah/Christ talked about knowing the TRUTH and about it making a person FREE.
Satan's ministers and fake “christians” like to talk about how they are not under the laws of God. They want to do many sinful, shameful, and wicked things while hypocritically pretending to be righteous. They talk about their freedom TO sin.
Jesus the Messiah/Christ talked about freedom FROM sin.
6:46
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I do not agree on is that HWA created the package deal. My proof is that 600 million people believe what he messaged.
Nck
Nck
ReplyDelete600 million believing a particular message doesn't mean the message is right. Truth is not determined by majority vote. At one point the majority believed that the sun revolved around the earth. If one goes back 50 years, the public view differs from todays, and if one goes back another 50 years, the public view was again different. Consider for example, the popularity of WW1 in England, at least initially.
People like BB who seem to blindly follow the main stream media, should consider this.
Needless to say, one should follow Christ rather than the ever shifting public view.
"Because one may find similarities between pagan mythologies and the Christian account, it does not mean they are of the same essential predicate."
ReplyDeleteThere are not just a few similarities. There are OODLES of them. It's a clear case of plagiarism. Which came first? They Mystery Religion of Osiris preceded the supposed life of Jesus by 2500 years.
12:24
ReplyDeleteIf enough people believe something is true it becomes reality or at least determines the future.
Nck
Billions of people believe the resurrection of Jesus because of the 'empty tomb' story. Was it a reality? Few people ask why the women needed to anoint an already buried, decomposing cadaver?
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of the spices was to control the smell of a decomposing body prior to burial. Once buried, what's the use of the spices particularly after 3 days in the grave. The spices was used as a plot device in order to introduce the empty tomb. Mark, the first gospel written, had it. Luke copied it. Matthew ignored the spices part yet did not mention why the women went to the tomb. John corrected it by concocting Nicodemus, a person who was never mentioned in other NT books, as the person with spices but still failed to mention why the women went to the tomb.
Nck
ReplyDeleteYour 2.32 PM point is very much in the Esau sold his birthright for a bowl of soup category. A flawed commie ideology motivated the Soviet Union, and belief in Herbs 1975 likewise motivated many. But look at the costs for all involved.
5:36
ReplyDeleteYou believe that because the true costs of capitalism are not calculated to the detriment of the environment, the nation's providing "strategic minerals", and stress.
Anyway, my example was far simpler just based on 1920 street pictures taken from skyscrapers. Everyone was wearing hats. Just years later no one was. Something changed. Another example Kennedy moved people to a believe in putting people on the moon with half the digital capacity of my cell phone. Not many asked about the costs and it did happen a decade later. All is possible.
I get the Esau thing although for all lofty purposes americas engagement in ww2 was also a battle for markets. I'm just pointing the nasty bits out apart from ideals and mythology. I did that with BI too, pointing out the inventors of the concentration camp, during the Boer War.
Nck
"""Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThere are not just a few similarities. There are OODLES of them. It's a clear case of plagiarism. Which came first? They Mystery Religion of Osiris preceded the supposed life of Jesus by 2500 years.
November 15, 2019 at 1:23 PM"""
And yet you still haven't given just one resource from writings prior to Jesus to back up your or their statements.
Again, we know the pagan religions existed, we know Mithraism existed, what we don't know is exactly what they taught. Writings after Jesus telling us what they taught won't suffice.
Just one.
9:56,
ReplyDeleteWhat you said below is absurd and you must not know any sincere non-cog Christians. It’s what the COGs loved to say but in my experience the COGs behaved worse than the non-cog Christians I knew at the time.
“They want to do many sinful, shameful, and wicked things while hypocritically pretending to be righteous. They talk about their freedom TO sin.”
4:52
ReplyDeleteWhen you call 9:56 absurd it becomes obvious you do not understand theoretical theology.
WCG stated thousands of times that Christians were/are sincere as are the adherents to many other faiths. As a matter of fact wcg sponsored many of the with millions of dollars and their faith was no hindrance to do so.
9:56 spoke of fake Christians. They are different from sincere non cog Christians.
Personally I cannot look into the heart of those considered or condemned by gods eternal law. So I do not claim to know their fate.
I knew many people who hated any type of shackle including religion. But that was because the Japanese had beaten normalcy out of them. Normalcy is rule bound even if we don't acknowledge that. Heck any "invasion" afghanistan, d day, glorious revolution etc all required legal title and invitation by the local authorities. I guess same goes for the multitude invading 'the kingdom' awaiting legal title.
Nck
Nck, you should know as well as I that in COG nomenclature “fake Christians” include sincere non-Cog christians with a highly developed theoretical theology that results in changed and caring behavior. The disqualifier was simply being “non-cog”, making you a fake Christian no matter the sincerity level.
ReplyDelete4:29
ReplyDeleteIn cog nomenclature there were the "sincerely misguided" Christians who spoke about love all the time. While the cog christ would come with "a rod of iron" to lead humanity into peace.
Nck