The problem with Herbert Armstrong and Rod Meredith's endless judgefests, is that their own houses were a complete shambles. Their personal lives, their families, and the churches they ran were a complete mess. Yet they were never wrong and everyone else was and still is.
“Judging vs. Judgment: Jesus said, “Judge not, that you be not judged” (Matthew 7:1–5). He admonished His disciples not to condemn, criticize, or sit in judgment of others, but to make sure that our own houses are in order. However, Jesus also warned that we must be able to spot false teachers who will be recognizable by their fruits (Matthew 7:15–20). This requires individuals to make decisions and judgments. A person who lacks judgment makes foolish decisions. Making wise decisions and judgments requires wisdom and spiritual discernment—and that comes from experience, from seeking and listening to wise counsel (Proverbs 11:14; 15:21–22), and from receiving, nourishing, and using the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 1:6–7). The Scriptures reveal that God gives His Spirit to those who repent and obey His instructions (Acts 2:38–39; 5:32). If we nourish God’s Spirit daily (2 Corinthians 4:16) and are willing to be led by that Spirit in our thinking and in our actions (Romans 8:14), we can develop the discernment that is needed to make wise decisions and judgments.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail”
Every time this topic comes up, I am reminded of Sartre's immortal quote: "Hell is other people."
ReplyDeleteThe fact is, each of us is so unique that it is impossible to miss and overlook the differences between ourselves and others, as well as the fact that we are nearly always working at counter purposes to someone. That's not always attributable to goodness or badness either, because even in goodness people work at counter purposes, and hold different opinions..
It is just very difficult to exist in relationships without judging, or looking down on others. Actually, all of us live in those proverbial glass houses. This is one of those things that has both spiritual and secular application. One size never fits all.
BB
Even the devil can quote the bible. Doug's article proves that.
ReplyDeleteNo one's house is ever in order first or ever such that now they can set themselves up as a judge of others. We all feel judged when what we really mean is that we are disagreed with or simply questioned. When we are reminded to get beams out of our own eyes before we go after the mote in another's, what we generally mean is to simply mind your own business and better yourself leaving others to their own experiences and perspectives. No one really gets the beam out of their own eye first or ever it seems. One either resonates with another's views or not. It's the not part that gets us on each other's case.
ReplyDeleteEven Jesus lost it a time or two as when being told "We know who our father is.." implying his illegitimacy and he came back with "YOU are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL!" The word "father" set him off. (John 8:41-44) Jesus reasoned that if you really loved the father, you'd love me because I have come from the Father. It never dawned on him that the problem might be they did not believe he came from any Heavenly Father in the first place and may have emotional problems not knowing his real earthly father. It is reasonable to doubt someone who claims to have an in with the gods that others don't. So they judged Jesus and he them bringing the conversation to precisely no good end.
I do like Neil DeGrasse Tyson's view of " I don't have an issue with what you do in the church, but I'm going to be up in your face if you're going to knock on my science classroom and tell me they've got to teach what you're teaching in your Sunday school. Because that's when we're going to fight."
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Gotta fight truth decay somewhere and sometimes.
Everyone believes themselves to be right in all things they believe or they'd not believe it. I know of no one says "I know I go to the false church and have bogus beliefs, but hey.." At least no one I have yet to meet. This applies to everything else we individually believe as well.
Doug Winnail encourages one to be "led by the spirit" in order to make right judgments and decisions. Dicey stuff that being "led by the spirit" because everyone who is so inclined to believe they have an in with the Holy Spirit and is going to view their opinions and views to be spirit led because they believe in being spirit led. They also believe that any being led by the spirt will be the right spirit. Any rebuttal and the rebutter is judged to be of the wrong spirit. You can't win, but no one wins either. We just return to our corners until the next round.
Matthew 7 must be one of the most abused scripture. Its quoted to quash the membership and it's quoted wrongly to discourage courage.
ReplyDeleteHistory is written by those who dared. King David dared as a shepherd boy, he picked small stones and only one stone paid off. Queen Esther took her chance and a whole nation of people lived.
The passage cited, as I understand it, is not telling us to NOT judge, but to not be a hypocrite, judging others for the same sin we are guilty of. In other words, GTA preaching against adultery, etc. We make judgments all the time, in many areas of our lives. But we can't judge others for what we are ourselves guilty of doing.
ReplyDelete5:03 AM said: “ The passage cited, as I understand it, is not telling us to NOT judge, but to not be a hypocrite, judging others for the same sin we are guilty of. In other words, GTA preaching against adultery, etc. We make judgments all the time, in many areas of our lives. But we can't judge others for what we are ourselves guilty of doing.”
DeleteExactly 5:03 AM! Well said! Unfortunately some, particularly PC types, like to quote this verse and twist its meaning to suit their immoral agenda and silence the righteous opposition. In the end God will judge them and they’ll have nowhere to run and hide from His righteous judgement!
Doug puts a burden on people by writing: "...we can develop the discernment that is needed to make wise decisions and judgments..."
ReplyDeleteWhy a burden? It is because Doug just swamps people with giving a bunch of scriptures, without quoting them out (one would think he would quote the verses if the words are so important, but Doug won't put out that effort. Burden on the readers! Who will look up those verses?).
So how is that discernment developed? Doug says: "...Making wise decisions and judgments requires wisdom and spiritual discernment—and that comes from...using the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 1:6–7)…"
Isn't God's Spirit God's power? Isn't it invisible? How do we use the Holy Spirit? Doug didn't tell us, because he does not know and 2 Tim 1:6-7 does not tell us how to use something of God's. Again, what a burden!
What if we can't do anything? Jesus said that of Himself He could do nothing. Yet, something was accomplished somehow in His life. Doug, if you read this: tell us how you use the Holy Spirit!
A burden? Doug further states: "...The Scriptures reveal that God gives His Spirit to those who repent and obey His instructions (Acts 2:38–39; 5:32)…"
Again, how does one repent? And obey? Doug, how specifically do you do that?
Now, if God does something to give/grant repentance, and He USES His, God's Spirit, to somehow help us out, then repentance and obeying makes sense. So far, it appears that Doug, whose flesh won't ever glory in God's presence, can't tell us how to do these things, because he himself hasn't done them. And if God doesn't give/grant one repentance, then who will do it?
I don't see anyone living forever. People keep sinning and they keep dying. Perhaps we better hope that our deaths are sufficient wages paid when it happens and we may somehow look forward to everlasting life!
Hirelings have existed a long time via living, global, united, wcg, etc. By now, isn't it about time we asked where are those "wise decisions and judgments" from Doug, and the xog leaders? But, to continue to swamp the brethren's minds with burdens? When will it end?
Time will tell...
John
A lesson on" judging" with a Reminiscence from 1980 WCG, in front of the Judge during the Receivership ...
ReplyDeleteTaking his seat in his chambers, Judge Weisman faced the opposing lawyers.
"So," he said, "I have been presented, by both of you, with a bribe." Both lawyers squirmed uncomfortably. "You, attorney Rader, gave me $25,000. And you, attorney Chodos, gave me $10,000."
The judge reached into his pocket and pulled out a check. He handed it to Rader ... "Now then, I'm returning $5,000, and we're going to decide this case solely on its merits."
Outdated news Tonto. God is not stuck in the past. Move Forward.
ReplyDeleteOutdated news Tonto. God is not stuck in the past. Move Forward.
ReplyDeleteThe WCG was stuck in the past, and so are the splinters.
I remember HWA's dictum in the 1970s when all ministers must be called "Mr ..." and "Sir". This was based on something HWA remembered from the 1940s with his church's youth group.
4.41 AM
ReplyDeleteDennis, there you go again with your 'let's all be open minded' mantra. The political left saturated the 1960s with this open minded song when they were the under dog. Now that they are top dog, people who dissent from them are beaten down with political correctness, chased out of restaurants, and bullied into the closet.
So understand why I question your open mindedness.
BTW, Neil Tyson should consider that what's taught in the class room ie, evolution, is very debatable, and in many cases, has a religious spirit.
Your obsessed with HWA Anon 10:30. Have you allowed a dead man to ruin you. It could have been so so different.
ReplyDelete441 said: "BTW, Neil Tyson should consider that what's taught in the class room ie, evolution, is very debatable, and in many, has a religious spirit."
ReplyDeleteBullshit
DennisCDiehl 2/4/20 @2:04 PM said “Bullshit” to 11:13 AM’s: “BTW, Neil Tyson should consider that what's taught in the class room ie, evolution, is very debatable, and in many cases, has a religious spirit.”
DeleteSo how’s this “open-mindedness” for ya 11:13? Rules for thee, but not for me!
ANON AT 9:46 Wrote: Outdated news Tonto. God is not stuck in the past. Move Forward.
ReplyDeleteMY RESPONSE:
Thats funny, because much of the Bible is about studying the past. Even the 4th Commandment says "Remember the Sabbath Day".
The writer George Santayana had this very famous and true quote: " Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."
Im not stuck in the past, but the COG past is indeed an interesting study and circus. Much was buried, hidden, covered up, and forgotten, and I find it helpful to know the "Plain Truth" of what really went on, so as to have a better grounding and perspective for both the present and future.
It also gives me insight to my own thought processes and actions over my lifetime, and how I arrived at certain conclusions at different ages of my life. Again , all a very good self insight that is useful to me both in the present and for the future.
Tonto
DeleteThe quote you mentioned was held in high esteem by Jim Jones. He had that very quote on a sign and it still hangs to this day in his preachers spot in the ruins of Jonestown.
You may not be stuck in the past but you certainly are stuck in the quadmire of deceit and lies.
2.04 PM
ReplyDeleteDennis, the Nazis had a religious spirit. The commies have a religious spirit. So do today's socialists. Reading today's newspapers proves this, especially the Trump derangement syndrome. So people are not impartial when it comes to evolution, since such ideologies regard human life as cheap rather than precious.
Ideologies don't regard human life as cheap. Ideologies are inanimate and non-sentient. They can't "regard". Certain people regard human life as cheap rather than precious.
ReplyDeleteWhat is "Trump derangement syndrome"?
The Nazis were primarily Aryans. Communists are not monolithic. Russian communists were primarily atheist, at times murderous, as in the Stalin purges. Asian communists are largely Buddhist (there are great similarities between communism and Buddhism). Socialists are basically egalitarians, and there is great diversity in their belief systems.
Uh, what point were you trying to make??? I think Dennis has you blitzed.
BB
BB
ReplyDeleteHistory is driven by ideologies. For instance, WW1 and WW2 were driven by the German belief that they are the master race. There is diversity in belief systems, but not in fundamentals. There are denominations in all ideologies.
I believe you know what Trump derangement syndrome means.
Your 10.21 PM post comes across as a sore loser who has reverted to harrassment.
Naughty, naughty.
7:07
ReplyDeleteHow was WWI driven by the "master race ideology?"
Do you have an article about that?
One could argue that Germany as a new State was asserting its place among the superpowers of the day. "Deutschland Uber Alles" means "Germany as a new State over the former 300 insignificant principalities of yesteryear. It has no racial connotations whatsoever, although the Germans don't sing that phrase anymore after the experiences of WwII.
A dark sinister occult ideology was a major driver of that 2nd war. I did visit the inner sanctum of the temple of that occult hierarchy last year. Today it serves as a youth hostel with free coffee if the machine is broken.
Friendly carpenters are working to restore the castle to its prewar glory.
Broken benches sit over the symbol that at the time was regarded as the Centre of the Universe.
Before heading for Nuremberg I looked out over the surrounding fields and thought about the pathetic looking people in court at the trial who once commanded the minds and ideology of an entire people with lies and wizardry and set up mental borders between other people's looking sinister and unwelcoming, lacking basic social skills...... Ooops wait I'm talking about someone else now..... Rambling.
Nck