From an RCG source:
David Pack did it again! This is the full-length text of the message he sent to the RCG members yesterday (are there still people believing this guy.. He’s giving them a new date almost every day now)
Keep Watch!
The Days of Unleavened Bread—now understood to be the Feast of Passover!—are quickly coming to an end. We now understand all the proofs of Passover being seven days—the way Christ kept it all His life before instituting the New Testament Passover prior to His death. God revealed this vital understanding “right on time,” and it set the stage for yet more that God would reveal at the very end. Dozens of scriptures that have come clear during this ongoing learning process in fact show nothing will happen until the Last Day of Unleavened Bread!
Understand. The LAST day of Unleavened Bread—the LAST day of Passover—is GIANT in God’s thinking. Following the pattern of announcements past, a handful of points make the case (50-plus more could have been included):
Brethren, echoing the last announcement, the case for Passover—now the last day of Passover—is so strong that none of us could imagine moving beyond it. God has taken us on a long journey that by every indication is coming to an end. The Holy Day is about 24 hours away. Stay close to God and prepare yourself for what appears to be our final watch.
Mark 13:35-36 remains central to our thinking and bears repeating to close: “Watch you therefore: for you know not when the master of the house comes, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. ”
* First a point of logic: With only two days left in Passover—a common day (starting at sunset Monday) and a Holy Day—which might God choose?
* Next, consider all that Christ said about “the last day” through John 6. Verse 4 makes plain He was teaching in a PASSOVER setting—“the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.” What “last day” other than the last day of this Feast would His audience think He meant? Fast-forward to our time—when events would actually unfold—the LAST DAY of Unleavened Bread is not only perfect, it is the only viable option!
* Habakkuk 2:3 plainly says “the vision is yet for an appointed time [a moad].” The seven days of Passover are a moad! But recall events unfold at the “end”—“at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.” The “end” of the appointed time of Passover is the Last Day of Unleavened Bread!
* Also realize that this passage includes a promise that Christ will “SURELY COME” and “WILL NOT TARRY”! We are NOW in the mahahh/mikron period—testing our resolve in the final days of awaiting His arrival. Waiting to the end of Passover is the longest possible mahahh/mikron—almost certainly why God tells us to wait for it!
* Recall Moses told Pharaoh, “Thus says the LORD God of Israel, Let My people go, that they may hold a feast unto Me in the wilderness” (Ex. 5:1). Israel crossed the Red Sea during the night of the feast of the Last Day of Unleavened Bread. THIS was the night they left Egypt’s border—to observe the Last Day of Passover in the wilderness! Ask: When might God take modern Israel out of enslavement to sin and the god of this world?
* Jericho’s walls fell on the last day of Passover. This types the walls, towers and loftiness of man coming down. And remember that the collapse of this evil city—a type of today’s society that God plans to soon take down—was accompanied by trumpet blasts!
* All these points perfectly fit Malachi 2:2-3. The Last Day of Unleavened Bread is a Jewish chag (Holy Day)!
* With this more complete understanding, what other day can compare to the Last Day of Passover?
Is Flavor-Aid unleavened?
ReplyDeleteNext year in the psych ward?
ReplyDeleteI just don't get whatever part of the human psyche such motivation comes from. Instead of working with cutting edge technology, I could have started up an Armstrong franchise, styling myself as "Dr. Bobby Sabbath", or "Prophet Uranus", perhaps eventually being able to use tithes to purchase an old deserted airport and renovate it as a base of operations for my ministry and unaccredited college, also equipped with a recording studio and motel for young starving apocalyptic rock bands.
ReplyDeleteBut, I like to sleep at night, and to look myself in the mirror each morning as I shave the areas of my neck right below my beard. Why would I want to perpetuate a tired and aging scam? It's not my style to constantly harrass people for their money, and I prefer a much more up tempo message and example.
No, it's much better to get positive feedback from clients, resulting from doing actual tangible work that helps people put food on the table of their families and employees. It's a different part of the chain. No politics involved, no spin, no notoriety. But, then again, I took a different lesson from HWA. He was a marvelous example of doing everything totally wrong, of things to be strenuously avoided. Thanks, Herb!
BB
Almost the exact same what David Pack was prophesying last year at Passover. Maybe the Great Packster is getting a bit lazy (isn’t that a sin..) and just clicked ‘copy’ and ‘past’ on his computer to deliver this years message.
ReplyDeleteWatching David Pack making a fool of himself is at least a bit amusing. What’s really painful to watch, is his ‘little flock’ getting all exited again, because surely The Big Event can happen any day now! And because of that they’re all expected to give as much as they can when it comes to the holy day offerings.
Doesn’t any of them think that that’s a bit odd? Why would David still need money if ‘The Lord Will Return Any Day Now!’
The day after -
ReplyDelete"Brethren, the work is on the move, and I must leave to be personally trained by Christ!
Remember to keep sending your tithes and offerings, to this Swiss Bank account: ..."
It's as if the members need a emotional 'fix' every so often. Just like a junkie.
ReplyDeleteWhat’s really painful to watch, is his ‘little flock’ getting all exited again, because surely The Big Event can happen any day now!
ReplyDeleteGetting exited would be a big step up for the members, as exiting might give them a chance at regaining their sanity. Already, Pack has seen two or three complete turnovers of membership in the last 20 years as he has shifted his approach and burned out a previous generation of RCG members. Maybe it's time for Dave to dump the current batch and start again fresh?
Christ returning on tax day? Pack should know the government has given a 3 month extension in light of the pandemic.
ReplyDeleteWe even have it on good authority that Jesus can turn water into Dom Perignon, and coal into Steuben Crystal. Gold is actually paving material in the new Jerusalem! So, why the need for money? Seems like that's where the equation breaks down!
ReplyDeleteBB
Anon 1057, he doesn't make a fool only of himself but also of the tens of people who still follow him.
ReplyDeletePack quotes:
ReplyDelete“the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh.”
Note that it says Feast of the Jews - therein lies the rub:
It was already antiquated by ~90AD when John's gospel appeared as the Christians were taking brother Paul's advice and dropping the Old Covenant (Col. 2:16-17)
Even at the Council of Nicaea (325AD) the Quartodecimans (Armstrongites/Packites of the day) were invited (not persecuted as HWA would have you believe) to make their case!
What followed is hilarious:
The Quartodecimans blew it, squabbling over Calendar calculations! (like they do today)
How...why??? Enough said!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the church member have written their wills? Or perhaps there is no point?
ReplyDeleteRonco..then for sure God will give Dave more time
ReplyDeletethe Feast of ULB/Passover seventh day starts tonight at sunset, April 14.
ReplyDeleteThe Feast of Weeks is the last day of Passover.
Watching for the Lord's return at any moment is called death.
James Malm would say David Pack already missed it - because Malm claims Israel crossed through the Red Sea on the night of U.B. 6.
ReplyDeleteOnly one of them can be right... right?
Is Christ going to return Jerusalem time, Wadsworth time or in Pasadena at HWA’s gravesite? Are we going to a place of safety or heaven. When do we get our crowds? Are we going to rule cities here on earth or maybe Uranus? Hope Dave writes another letter real soon
ReplyDeleteJim-AZ
@anon 5:08PM ‘Is Christ going to return Jerusalem time, Wadsworth time or in Pasadena ...’
DeleteWadsworth time of course! At least according to David Pack. He’s been claiming this for years now.. His justification for spending all that money (I wonder HOW MUCH was spent) on that monstrosity of a building they call headquarters. According to The Packster that is the place where Christ will return.. Not in Jerusalem, not Mecca, Angkor Wat, Sensō-Ji or Pasadena.
No, when Christ returns he will visit David first..
I hate to say it, but I seriously wonder what a lot of the ACOG members are thinking of this novel corona virus! On one hand, it's as scary for them as it is to the rest of us.. But from their perspective, can you imagine the relative blessing of succumbing to a little virus as opposed to either dying on a meathook or being stoned to death by your spiritual leader for a minor infraction at his place of safety?
ReplyDeleteWhat's really going to confuse them is when we make it through this crisis somewhat wounded, but able to recover, with it not being anything close to "the end".
BB
"First a point of logic:" lmao...when does Packatollah ever speak logic?
ReplyDeleteJim-AZ asked:
ReplyDeleteWhen do we get our crowds?
Haven't you been following the news? Not until well into the summer, at least.
"James Malm would say David Pack already missed it - because Malm claims Israel crossed through the Red Sea on the night of U.B. 6. Only one of them can be right."
ReplyDeleteJames Malm is as big of a lying fool as David Pack is. Both are liars.
The kings of COGdom may be competing amongst themselves to see who can outcrazy the others and still keep their members. Each of them seem to come up with some new antic or just reuse an old one.
ReplyDeleteI don’t know if anyone here has seen “The Leftovers” but Season 3 begins showing a family in the Millerite faith dress in white and wait on their rooftops for their rapture. Then gradually the number grows smaller and smaller and smaller.
ReplyDeleteThis has been done before and it will fail again.
Hopefully there’s an Exodus out of Wadsworth.
Back when I was 14 or 15 years old and having no background in religion whatsoever, I read an article in the largest newspaper on earth at the time and I would know because I delivered it everyday at 5:00 in the morning for four years.
ReplyDeleteThis article written by one of the writers was about when he bought for his children a ouija board for them and their friends to play with. He then went on to explain certain HAPPENINGS that started to talk place in the household. Doors and windows opening and closing randomly. Odd sounds from time time. Hazyness in the house and cold air pockets in different parts of the house. Objects then flew around with force which now left the whole house in a state of fear.
Having remedied the situation, the writer concluded his article with pleading with the reader not to dismiss his warning and think that the ouija board is just some innocuous game, because if you do he said, you will be INVITING UNWANTED SPIRITS INTO YOUR HOME.
What is Dave Pack inviting into his congregation? What kind of board game is he playing in his mind and what kind of message is he trying to reveal?
Early in my attendance in the RCG, a friend and I traveled to hear Mr. Pack in person. In the sermon he got into Hebrews 10:37 and said this was referring to the Man of Sin. Odd in my mind at the time, but I let it go. Two weeks later we heard the same sermon in our local church area. When he got to Hebrews 10:37 he claimed it was referring to Jesus Christ. Talk about a sharp edit. My friend later noticed the same thing and was shocked.
In this letter Dave Pack claims that today will be the return of Jesus Christ by using for proof Habakkuk 2:3. He believes this verse along with Hebrew 10:37 is referring to Jesus Christ who won't tarry past this day. The huge problem for the members of the RCG is that neither verse refers to Jesus Christ. It is clear as day who it is actually referring to.
Who is Dave Pack trying to introduce to his church on this last moad (appointed time)? Who are the twelve bad men that have to be bad and where are they located? In Dave's mind perhaps? And what about the horror that is to come that Dave said is to happen at this time? Is that his wishful thinking? Who and what and how many spirits has Dave invited into his household from his little board game he is playing?
A little bible reading for those in the RCG. II Thess. 2:1-12. Now I beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by SPIRIT, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition ....
These people have been booking personal appearances for Jesus for decades, without consulting Jesus. When Jesus does not validate them by actually showing, they backpedal and refuse to take responsibility for their lies. We're way beyond three strikes and you're out here, folks! They've been doing this for decades now.
ReplyDeleteWhat If every once and a while, I told you all that Travis Tritt were coming to my house to drink beer and jam with me and some of my musician friends. And then he didn't. So a couple months later, I posted it again. And he didn't. And this repeated time and time again. I would expect that after the second time, just about everyone here would believe that 1) I was a pathological liar, or 2) I was delusional, or 3) That I was koo koo for Cocoa Puffs.
Thing is, it's far worse when someone who is looked to as an authority figure and spiritual leader does this about Jesus than it would be for little ol' rock n roller and biker me to do it about Travis Tritt! Plus, my conscience would hurt and I'd be embarrassed to make crap up like that!
BB
Jews don't believe in the last day of Unleavened Bread as a holy day.
ReplyDelete8.47 PM
ReplyDeleteIs that wishing thinking on Dave's part? Perhaps, but more likely an attempt to coerce Christ to return on a date of Dave's choosing. These ministers are so power crazed that it's my will be done, rather than Your will be done. They expect God to obey them. This is a trick Dave picked up from HWA, when 1975 was Herbs attempt to bully Christ to return early in order to cover up the failure of communism. Yes, Herb was opposed to the Soviet branch of communism, since they would not let him play church, but he heartily embraced communist ideology. A prayer request will verify this accusation.
1975 also means that HWA was willing to use God as a tool to destroy billions of lives that did not deserve to die or go through the tribulation. What does that say about HWAs character?
Often true words are said in jest.
ReplyDeleteThe intriguing relationship between coronary heart disease and mental disorders
ReplyDeleteNot even Thiel has made the connection. I have.
Prophet certified,
-James
It hurts the brain just trying to read this thing.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteJews don't believe in the last day of Unleavened Bread as a holy day.
April 15, 2020 at 12:22 AM
Really?
https://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/2748528/jewish/The-Last-Two-Days-of-Passover-In-a-Nutshell.htm
Yeah 4:58 Really.
DeleteAll Jews that I've worked with only recognise Passover. The Jewish view is completely different from the fundementalist Sabbatarian movement in more ways than we can realize.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that the city of David was in Ohio.
The reason why this nonsense is perpetuated is that there is no downside for the leader.
ReplyDeleteFrom the Wikipedia article on The Great Disappointment (Millerites and the failed 1844 prophecy):
"The Great Disappointment is viewed by some scholars as an example of the psychological phenomenon of "cognitive dissonance" and "True-believer syndrome". The theory was proposed by Leon Festinger to describe the formation of new beliefs and increased proselytizing in order to reduce the tension, or dissonance, that results from failed prophecies."
In other words, after a period of despair, the dedicated Millerites just doubled down.
Jim-AZ
ReplyDeleteByker Bob are you saying Travis Tritt didn’t come and drink beer and jam with you? I have lost faith in you
Jim
Dave Pack says:
ReplyDelete******
"...The Days of Unleavened Bread—now understood to be the Feast of Passover!...Understand. The LAST day of Unleavened Bread—the LAST day of Passover—is GIANT...last day of Passover...With only two days left in Passover...The seven days of Passover...last day of Passover...With this more complete understanding, what other day can compare to the Last Day of Passover?..."
******
Nothing compares to that "last day of Passover," b/c it's all stupid! I'm not saying Dave is stupid, but what he says about the 7th day of unleavened bread being "magically" the "last day of Passover" is stupid. In fact, it brings up other questions if what he said is true:
What then is the 1st day of Passover?
Does this mean that Dave's followers need not send/give him a Passover offering? Because it says in Deut 16:16 "Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose; in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles:..." And "anything" Passover "anything" is not mentioned!
Dave made all of that stupidity about some "last Passover" up! Which Passover did Jesus Christ observe with emblems if it wasn't this "GIANT" of a "last passover?"
And if that weren't enough there is Dave, like Doug Winnail, and other xcog leaders believing people have to be tested to eventually earn, qualify, be ready for the MMM (Mickey Mouse Millennium) of Jesus Christ soon coming to reign on planet earth! What did Dave say, again?
"...Also realize that this passage includes a promise that Christ will “SURELY COME” and “WILL NOT TARRY”! We are NOW in the mahahh/mikron period—testing our resolve in the final days of awaiting His arrival. Waiting to the end of Passover is the longest possible mahahh/mikron—almost certainly why God tells us to wait for it!..."
Testing our resolve? It's just stupid. I can't write anymore on this.
Will Dave Pack with his made-up "last day of Passover" and other xcog leaders (Winnail, Thiel, Franks, Weston, Kubik, et al) repent of their belief in a MMM and various of their other man-made theories for self, get, etc. to "help all of us helpless ones" to someday be in God's Kingdom?
When will any of them preach the God and Christ mentioned in 2 Cor 5:19?
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them;..."
Time will tell...
John
Anon 1222 wrote: Jews don't believe in the last day of Unleavened Bread as a holy day
ReplyDeleteMaybe not all Jews, but certainly Orthodox. And for those not living in Israel, an 8th day is added, The Day of Messianic Redemption.
The "Jesus is coming to Wadsworth" idea reminds me of the house that the JW's built called Beth Sarim or House of the Princes. Judge Rutherford, the leader of the JW, lived there in San Diego, house sitting, until the patriarchs of the OT returned. I think the house was built in 1929 and later sold in 1948.
ReplyDeleteHere is the classic question regarding the Dave Pack problem: Wasn't it one of the teachings of Armstrongism that God's Holy Spirit is the spirit of a sound mind? Being articulate isn't the ultimate acid test. Sound mindedness is. It is entirely possible to have the first without the second.
ReplyDeleteWell Jim-AZ, I knew someone would smell T-R-O-U-B-L-E. The whiskey just ain't workin' any more!
ReplyDeleteBB
I've been out in my garage this morning putting a new set of police quality pads and rotors on the front of my car here during the governor's stay at home mandate. Just came in for a break and am drinking a nice cold glass of water laced with wormwood. Haven't seen any bright flashes from the East, and no sounds of thunder crashing. Did Dave get himself into another one of his SNAFU's???? I'll keep watching from time to time, but will be facing the west as I do the left side.
ReplyDeleteBB
April 15, 2020 at 6:58 AM
ReplyDeleteIn other words, after a period of despair, the dedicated Millerites just doubled down.
___________________________________________
Like a gambling addiction. Was it worth it?
Davo has one slim chance of getting himself an extra day, thanks to Chasidic Judaism: Acharon Shel Pesach, the 8th ("last day") of Passover. If he tries really hard, he can "prove" that the extra day was "revealed" to him.
ReplyDeleteHint to get him started: The eighth day is referred to as a "Future Passover" and "Messiah's Passover". He might not like the custom of staying up all night reading the Torah, but it wouldn't hurt.
ReplyDelete"A little bible reading for those in the RCG. II Thess. 2:1-12. Now I beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by SPIRIT, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition .... "
I concluded my comment with this quote from Paul which is as clear as a bible statement I think that could be given to show that Jesus Christ is not going to return today.
For the members of the RCG this quote won't move the needle even a fraction of a inch in their mind for not believing and anticipating that Jesus Christ is returning to Wadsworth, Ohio today.
The grand puzzle game player Pack has already indoctrinated into his membership mind's that the falling away happened in 1995 and that he was the one spoken about as holding back the revealing of the Man of Sin. Two and a half years ago Dave Pack revealed the Man of Sin as the resurrected Judas Iscariot who would take on the form of and become the BAAL GOD.
So I should have concluded my comment that it is time for a little bible reading for the membership of the RCG. In Habakkuk 2:2 it states: And the Lord answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, THAT HE MAY RUN THAT READETH IT.
Understanding that the run is running their eyes and fingers across it in a heightened sense of awareness, it could very well mean exactly the way it reads.
Dave Pack introduced to his membership the coming today of he who is spoken of in most of Habakkuk 2 and Hebrews 10-11 and II Thess. 2. Those in the RCG had better take heed and see what is plainly happening here and RUN, run as fast as they can out of there.
April 15, 2020 at 1:10 PM
ReplyDelete"Those in the RCG had better take heed and see what is plainly happening here and RUN, run as fast as they can out of there."
_____________________________________________________
Run where? They gave everything they owned to him. They are too heavily invested in Dave Pack to ever admitting defeat and abandon the false prophet. Otherwise, they bet it all in a roll of the dice. They are junkies with an addiction.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteYeah 4:58 Really.
All Jews that I've worked with only recognise Passover. The Jewish view is completely different from the fundementalist Sabbatarian movement in more ways than we can realize.
April 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM
Well I guess that proves it then. Since you've worked with them you must know! Otherwise you wouldn't have made such an all inclusive statement as:
"Jews don't believe in the last day of Unleavened Bread as a holy day."
I guess the link that I gave didn't correspond with you before stating that some Jews do.
Too much guessing going on I guess. I never stated ALL Jews throughout time immoral.
DeleteThis is Dave Pack
ReplyDeleteTo all my critics on Banned, which one of us has his very own Michael Jackson type compound? You or me?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Which one of us is leader of his own church, you or me?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Which one of us is laughing all the way to the bank, you or me?
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
ReplyDeletePainful Truth said:
Run where? They gave everything they owned to him. They are too heavily invested in Dave Pack to ever admitting defeat and abandon the false prophet. Otherwise, they bet it all in a roll of the dice. They are junkies with an addiction.
April 15, 2020 at 2:09 PM
Painful, you are absolutely right. But there is one person more heavily invested in this created scenario than the members. And as the heat continues to engulf him about there is no telling what he will do. With a whole mindset and being that believes the whole world needs to know who I AM, that failure of establishment just may be the tipping point for a man who has already self declared that he is a murdering terrorist.
Keep writing Painful, if we can help even one person - it will be worth it.
Byker Bob, most COGs seem to be as baffled about where coronavirus is going as the mainstream churches. So much for the "more sure word of prophecy."
ReplyDeleteCOGWA announced its first COVID-19 death today. UCG had one shortly before Passover. So complete divine protection clearly isn't there.
3:26pm Exactly!
ReplyDelete3:20pm If you had originally said, "Not all Jews believe in the last day of Unleavened Bread as a holy day." then I wouldn't have questioned you. That's not what you said though.
ReplyDeleteIn case you didn't know, words have meanings, and if you don't use them properly your meaning will be lost. Not all of us can read minds.
@ 5:22PM, you're exactly right, but I have to admit that I would like to know more about this "time immoral" that 3:20PM wrote about.
ReplyDelete4.52 PM
ReplyDeleteHow old was the person who died from the COV-19 virus? Members have died from all manner of diseases. For instance, while I attended WCG, two middle aged members in my congregation died from cancer.
Well, the W. A., it seems as if all churches, both sabbatarian and Sunday-keeping would be much better off simply acknowledging that Covid 19 exists, and then doing some deep thinking about how they can help in making the situation better. That makes much greater sense than attempting to second guess how it might fit into prophecy, or looking at it as if the whole epidemic was created to take down the president. This is not the time for agenda-based thinking because that's not what is going to get the job done.
ReplyDeleteOf course it matters that we know how the disease got here so that future occurrences can be prevented, but knowing the hows and whys it came to be are not going to make it go away. That requires herd unity, and temporary sacrifices to be made by all members of the herd.
If there is one group I'd tend to feel badly for right now, it would be the Christian Scientists. As a group they are not obnoxious, but their beliefs don't include using the latest in medical technology. The corona virus will probably hit them especially hard. Or, will we learn lessons from them? Way too early to tell.
BB
Aaaaaand we’re off again!
ReplyDeleteDavid Pack has delivered a new message to the RCG members, stating that he now has ‘New Proof for Upcoming Events!’ and letting them know ‘To Keep Watching!’
My guess would be he’ll announce a new date.. Lets play a little game here, the ‘Lets all guess David’s new date-game’
I say Pentecost
to all of the folks in RCG...if you stay after this latest scam, you're on your own....
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like Dave has imprisoned his members minds. True free moral agency isn't there.
ReplyDeleteThis all sounds like it is out of order for COGdom. Did RCG really abandon HWAs eschatology this easily? What happened to tribulation, place of safety, world war, yadda yadda?
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like Dave has imprisoned his members minds. True free moral agency isn't there.
ReplyDeleteFalse. Dave has promised his members a grandiose future. To get that future, they're willing to go along with him. That makes RCG members no less culpable than Adam and Eve in falling for the false promises of a convincing seducer, instead of following the plain truth God gave them. They have chosen to reject God and obey Dave. That's on them. In one sense, they may be more culpable than Dave. Dave may just be insane. RCG members are greedily desiring Dave's lies to be true, and God's truth to be false.
Just because D. Pack promised great rewards doesn't mean that is why people are there. People are unique and have individual perspectives and reasons. There is NOT a one-size-fits-all explanation for joining nor for leaving. Furthermore, you all who claim to have moved on to better thinking and living are no better than D. Pack when you call those still attending "brain dead, stupid, too far gone,etc..." You prove his point that "people who leave are mean, bitter, and cruel" when you attack those who you and him would consider to be the sheep. I came here after leaving said organization to find how other people view it, and I was sickened and disheartened to know that while I was seeking God and Truth and courage to leave, you who don't know me were bashing me and all who were ever there, as ones who are "brain dead, lacking in any critical thinking skills, and beyond help." Please just stick to what this site claims to be one that wants to "hold these agents of deception accountable." Please stop adding insult and injury to people who were hurt or mostly destroyed by said deceptions. You each left whichever organization, and found hope and healing isn't it possible those there can be and deserve to get healing too?
ReplyDelete7.57 PM
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with your post. Everyone can be deceived. Most of us here were. But when the body of evidence becomes overwhelming, it is the responsibility of every person to act.
Luke 14.29 "and all that beheld it, began to mock him (for not finishing the tower)." That is, social disapproval for foolishness behavior is helpful. It wouldn't be in the Bible otherwise.
"You each left whichever organization, and found hope and healing isn't it possible those there can be and deserve to get healing too?
ReplyDeleteApril 16, 2020 at 7:57 PM"
Blaming others for your being deceived isn't a good way to start down the straight and narrow.
Admit that you were duped, and that it was your fault. Yes, it was stupid to stay in as long as you did unless you had a loved one there who your leaving would hurt.
Own up to your past ignorance and grow up. Blaming others isn't a good step in the right direction.
7:57 PM is angry at God for what He did to Adam and Eve, who were simply seeking the Truth, and he wants to hold God accountable for being mean, bitter, and cruel, and hurting, mostly destroying, a family.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, 7:57 deserves praise for developing the courage to say "No!" to a deceiver, while Dave's lobotomized Council of Headquarters Ministers continues to tell that serpent how wonderful he is.
Agree to disagree. I am allowed to ask the owners/main contributors of this blog to continue to allow descriptions of the "deceptions." I am also allowed to ask them to consider being careful in 100% condemning or allowing others to be condemned. Saying someone is "too far gone" or "more culpable than the one that deceived them" goes beyond mocking and into declaring condemnation. I am just asking that you consider that they might deserve kindness and hope. So that if, and that is a big if, others do leave and they come here to see what people thought of them, they will at least know that one person understood the complexities of their situation, and hoped that they were given not only strength to leave, but also some level of hope to heal once they do.
ReplyDelete6:37, in a perfect world, of course you would be right. However, the truth is that all of us who ever left have had to recognize and admit that we ourselves were all of those things. That may be why we throw those terms around so freely. Leaving is an act of supreme bravery, because one does feel cut off and all alone in so many ways, often for the first time in one's life. Each of us had to realize that we had been in a mind-controling cult, victimized just as surely as Bernie Madoff's victims were victimized, and it was not entirely our fault. It was the fault of those who perpetrated and furthered the scam.
ReplyDeleteThere is great compassion from the exCOG community for all who do break free, but that comes into play after members leave.
BB
@ 4:22 am I have never once blamed others for my being deceived. I was raised in the "church" born into "WCG" attended other "COGs" and into "RCG" when 14. I stayed longer than I should have because all my friends were there, and some family, too. And, yes it would hurt them if I left. I stayed because I was afraid and because I didn't want to lose my only support system. I am fully aware of the things I have done that hurt others because I believed the things I was told. And I have to live with the knowledge that in some of these cases it is too late to ask for forgiveness for the things I did and said. BBob - I get the need to understand our individual part in being deceived. I just believe that some degree of compassion can also give people that extra strength to leave. I may be wrong. Or,because we are unique people perhaps some need compassion, and some need "tough love" to be moved to change their circumstances, and sometimes it takes a bit of both.--- I don't want to argue at all with any of you here. I just wanted to at least mention another viewpoint. I wish each of you well as you take your various paths to health, happiness and joy.
ReplyDeleteAnon, April 17, 2020 at 9:26 AM, concluded comment said: "...I don't want to argue at all with any of you here. I just wanted to at least mention another viewpoint. I wish each of you well as you take your various paths to health, happiness and joy."
ReplyDeleteThat's fine, and probably most of us on this site can identity with portions of what you wrote to one degree or another. Most can say, "Been there, done that, etc." We are striving to do the best we can with what we have; each of us has different things and probably b/c it is true what you said: "...we are unique people."
And God loves people. And Jesus Christ said: "Love one another," which, without God's Spirit, is so much (infinitely?) easier said than done. Proof? See all of the hatred, divisions, strife, etc. evident worldwide.
There must be a reason for the following words, which is not talking about the people:
"Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." 1 John 2:15
How do we know it isn't about people?
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor 5:19
If there is a way that God is going to reconcile the world, and yet also not impute trespasses unto the world, then why do people impute trespasses unto one another?
Have a delightful Sabbath today. And if you don't observe it; make it a great day and thanks for sharing your viewpoint. There is something to "iron sharpening iron."
Time will tell...
John
Pack is only arguing that when Jesus returns, it will be on the last day of unleavened bread. He wasn't saying that Jesus would return this year on that day.
ReplyDelete7:29pm Ahhh, thanks for the explanation. That must be why he said the sabbath before unleavened bread would be the last sabbath.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing that we have you to explain Pack's mindlessness.
In case you're unable to recognize it, that was oozing with sarcasm!