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With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Growing up my whole life in the WCG/GCG/LCG I always questioned the goodness of God and I still do. Is God good? I’m not convinced.
First let’s begin with Satan. God allows the enemy of mankind on earth and gives him the ability to tempt mankind and makes him god of this world despite being incouragably wicked. If mankind is Gods children would you let them be babysit by Nero or the embodiment of evil?
Secondly all that happens to the innocent. Especially children. I know kids who were abused in WCG and LCG. “Gods church” afforded them no blessing or protection. Not to mention all the others who have evil befall them unjustly.
Third God has different rules depending on who you are. If you’re Jesus or David then you don’t suffer the same or have the same relationship with God. There’s a verse saying God is impartial but who he works with and how seem very partial. If your name is Judas and God knows you’ll betray your son but makes you a disciple expressly for that reason is Judas fully culpable for his son? Or did God put him in a position expressly to do that. Same with Pharoph’s heart being hardened by God. He was willing to let them go but God kept hardening his heart.
God only appears to be good on his terms. No definitive goodness apart from whim, mood, etc..
God has a lot to answer for on how and why he created/allowed/conspired to make events creation and people exist as they do. That’s what the above attempts to do. Ask Man to ask God are you actually good?
You grew up in WCG/GCG/LCG and they never talked about this? This is somewhat basic stuff for having been it that long especially the first point. Did you check your Bible throughout it all?
The question as stated presupposes that Timmy is going to spend eternity as a small child, and never mature.
Else why would this meeting of the murdered and the murderer take place while Timmy is still a small (immortal) child, when in reality it is something that needs great maturity? Does mainstream Christianity believe a child that dies remains an eternal child?
If so, then the COGs belief is a much more rational explanation for such a situation. Timmy, as a small child, would not have repented and been baptised, because he got murdered, and so would be in the ‘second resurrection’. There he would grow physically to maturity, and in due course in this scenario be changed/resurrected to eternal life as a mature being.
Likewise the murderer would live his life after his murders, eventually die, and also be in the ‘second resurrection’, and also in this stated scenario would have repented of his former sins, and received eternal life.
There would then need to be a meeting of these two individuals, where, as mature people, with a changed outlook on life and behaviour, these past problems can be sorted out between them. Not as a small child and his murderer, but as two mature people, with the perpetrator of the crime a changed person.
It is interesting that just such situations have taken place in some controlled situations in today’s world. In some instances, criminals have seemingly repented, and both the ex-criminal and the victim of their crime (or the victim’s family in the case of a murder) have meet, and a number of these meetings have led to what seems to be a genuine reconciliation amongst the two parties.
If it can happen in some instances between people now at this time, you would hope that it would be that much easier under the guidance of a benevolent God.
Although we are very judgmental, humans are poor judges.
God, on the hand, is a perfect judge whose mercy triumphs over judgement.
Yes, it does seem unfair to me that all sins are of equal weight - but all of us who are slightly older than innocent Little Timmy are guilty of some rather dark stuff.
I guess I need to focus on being glad to be forgiven for all the awful things I've done, instead of being angry or jealous of the other guy who got away with murder.
To err is human; to forgive is divine. Not being able to forgive others makes our own life hell.
The type of scenario depicted in the cartoon has kind of already played out in Paradise with St. Paul who, before repentance, had been the murderous Saul.
However, I have to believe that Jesus very lovingly helped all the Little Timmy parties come to terms with the situation that no one deserves Paradise but, we're fortunate to be given such a wonderful gift.
I've had four older relatives die in recent years and the family did not follow their funeral and burial requests. When I was asked what I thought, I said I won't participate in doing anything against the wishes of the deceased; however, I am sure those arrangements that they wanted when they were alive don't matter to them now. I'm sure that they have much bigger interests now that they are in Heaven and do not care what we on Earth want to do to grieve and to commemorate their lives.
I've got to believe that once we are in Heaven and comprehend Jesus a little better, we won't care about Earth stuff - even murder.
Anonymous July 6, 2020 at 12:59 PM Questeruk July 6, 2020 at 3:50 PM
Both comments have always been on my mind. 12.59PM says, " Why the prejudices or bias in God if He is just and powerful?" Logical. As for Questeruk, his reasoning is also logical.
Between the two, I give God the benefit of doubt and go for Questeruk's explanation.
What's depicted is a criminals and ACOGs ministers wet dream, and will never happen. God is not cruel or indifferent to justice as the cartoon implies.
And then "righteous" 11:16 discovers that "little Timmy" is actually Thimo, the son of the East Poland Gauleiter under Himmler and a jewish man had come to take revenge. And Jesus says that the grief stricken man had repented of that.
My point.
What do "righteous fools" like 11:16 actually know to speak, or have an opinion on what God knows, or basis of information he decides upon. Let alone the concept of justice, which is always contextual.
I believe what the caption says above, however I doubt that Jesus would inform us in such a way. God said that he creates evil and that he creates good. I think within those two opposites lies a vast area for repentance even up to the most egregious of crimes. I often think of Judas. He allowed is love for money to rule over him so that he betrayed Jesus maybe thinking he was only going to get a good beating. Once he saw that death was going to be involved, Matthew 27 shows us that he had deep regret for what he did. Who's to say that Hitler did not have this remorse after his great atrocities to mankind? Or any other person or persons who have committed crimes against humanity at any level. I get it because I am human as well. We automatically feel that we have the right to be judge, jury and executioner in things that we see. If we believe in a creator God and what scripture says, we do not. Not a one of us understand the great depth and understanding of God. What his ultimate plans are, etc...we work within a very limited realm of understanding that has a roof over it for now.
Hello 11:05. A schoolyard bully? Just a lawyers reaction to the use of the word "never" and the implication of 11:16 to know all the fact and what justice pertains. In short, the arguments put forth sounded like "mobrule." That was the provocation, nothing personal, strictly academic.
This is a bit like the classic story of Corrie Ten Boom meeting the Nazi guard from her concentration camp. God is willing to forgive ALL sinners - and so should we:
Doesn’t it state in the Scriptures that all the evil of this world won’t even come to mind in Paradise? So why would our Savior be pointing out the sins of one saved sibling’s past life to another saved sibling?
"Doesn’t it state in the Scriptures that all the evil of this world won’t even come to mind in Paradise? So why would our Savior be pointing out the sins of one saved sibling’s past life to another saved sibling?" ****** There are a lot of very interesting comments by others on this particular thread, and FWIIW, after that 2nd resurrection occurs, the following verse will apply:
Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. :32 Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
So, people will remember the evil that had occurred in their former live; however, that evil, or anything like it, will never ever occur in their lives again. This is all God's doings. He is the One that grants/gives repentance to people, who will also be educated to understand things like:
- the evil that was present with them (Romans 7:21) - sin had been in each of their lives (Romans 7:17, 20) - the spirit that had been within them (James 4:5; John 8:44), and no more is in them in Paradise - why their minds focused so much on flesh wrestling flesh (Eph 6:12) - what Satan had been doing (I John 3:8, 12; 2 Tim 2:26) - why they were the children of obedience (Eph 2:2), but are no longer as such in Paradise - why the flesh (Rom 7:18) was such a problem in their former lives
It may be worthwhile to consider the context of those two verse cited above in Ezekiel 36:
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them]. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. 33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it]. 37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet [for] this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do [it] for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD. [{holy … : Heb. flock of holy things}
Is that all somehow going to be taken care of by God, by His Spirit, through Jesus Christ? Really? Time will tell...
I learned that the Supreme Court upheld the defense in a rape case in Muskogee Oklahoma that half of the State is Native American property.
Could you please find out if PCG HQ is built on Native American lands and Gerald Flurry is soon going to report to his superiors in the Teepee.
I need to adjust the Government Chart of the Universe into God ----- XJesXusX Christ --------The Chief of the Muskogee tribe --------Gerald Flurry---------the 3 other non legal members in the bylaws-----------the cream of the crud lay membership without rights
Yet I also understand anonymous 6h of july's point on Gods behavior.
In most civilized countries except the United States, which may not be ranked as a civilized nation, "sollicitation","instigation" or "provocation of crime" by the police is illegal and to be condemned.
My opinion: I'm not sure if I would leave my little Timmy alone ad unsupervised with a single man.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately I know many Timmies in Rwanda and Bosnia Herzegovina who are doing exactly as this Jesus asks.
Nck
Timmy had BETTER say hello, or Jesus will throw him into Hell to BURN!
ReplyDeleteGrowing up my whole life in the WCG/GCG/LCG I always questioned the goodness of God and I still do. Is God good? I’m not convinced.
ReplyDeleteFirst let’s begin with Satan. God allows the enemy of mankind on earth and gives him the ability to tempt mankind and makes him god of this world despite being incouragably wicked. If mankind is Gods children would you let them be babysit by Nero or the embodiment of evil?
Secondly all that happens to the innocent. Especially children. I know kids who were abused in WCG and LCG. “Gods church” afforded them no blessing or protection. Not to mention all the others who have evil befall them unjustly.
Third God has different rules depending on who you are. If you’re Jesus or David then you don’t suffer the same or have the same relationship with God. There’s a verse saying God is impartial but who he works with and how seem very partial. If your name is Judas and God knows you’ll betray your son but makes you a disciple expressly for that reason is Judas fully culpable for his son? Or did God put him in a position expressly to do that. Same with Pharoph’s heart being hardened by God. He was willing to let them go but God kept hardening his heart.
God only appears to be good on his terms. No definitive goodness apart from whim, mood, etc..
God has a lot to answer for on how and why he created/allowed/conspired to make events creation and people exist as they do. That’s what the above attempts to do. Ask Man to ask God are you actually good?
You grew up in WCG/GCG/LCG and they never talked about this? This is somewhat basic stuff for having been it that long especially the first point. Did you check your Bible throughout it all?
DeleteTimmy:"Where's ma familee? Bruh, why you put me in hell Jesus?"
ReplyDeleteLet’s take this scenario at face value.
ReplyDeleteThe question as stated presupposes that Timmy is going to spend eternity as a small child, and never mature.
Else why would this meeting of the murdered and the murderer take place while Timmy is still a small (immortal) child, when in reality it is something that needs great maturity? Does mainstream Christianity believe a child that dies remains an eternal child?
If so, then the COGs belief is a much more rational explanation for such a situation. Timmy, as a small child, would not have repented and been baptised, because he got murdered, and so would be in the ‘second resurrection’. There he would grow physically to maturity, and in due course in this scenario be changed/resurrected to eternal life as a mature being.
Likewise the murderer would live his life after his murders, eventually die, and also be in the ‘second resurrection’, and also in this stated scenario would have repented of his former sins, and received eternal life.
There would then need to be a meeting of these two individuals, where, as mature people, with a changed outlook on life and behaviour, these past problems can be sorted out between them. Not as a small child and his murderer, but as two mature people, with the perpetrator of the crime a changed person.
It is interesting that just such situations have taken place in some controlled situations in today’s world. In some instances, criminals have seemingly repented, and both the ex-criminal and the victim of their crime (or the victim’s family in the case of a murder) have meet, and a number of these meetings have led to what seems to be a genuine reconciliation amongst the two parties.
If it can happen in some instances between people now at this time, you would hope that it would be that much easier under the guidance of a benevolent God.
Although we are very judgmental, humans are poor judges.
ReplyDeleteGod, on the hand, is a perfect judge whose mercy triumphs over judgement.
Yes, it does seem unfair to me that all sins are of equal weight - but all of us who are slightly older than innocent Little Timmy are guilty of some rather dark stuff.
I guess I need to focus on being glad to be forgiven for all the awful things I've done, instead of being angry or jealous of the other guy who got away with murder.
To err is human; to forgive is divine. Not being able to forgive others makes our own life hell.
The type of scenario depicted in the cartoon has kind of already played out in Paradise with St. Paul who, before repentance, had been the murderous Saul.
However, I have to believe that Jesus very lovingly helped all the Little Timmy parties come to terms with the situation that no one deserves Paradise but, we're fortunate to be given such a wonderful gift.
I've had four older relatives die in recent years and the family did not follow their funeral and burial requests. When I was asked what I thought, I said I won't participate in doing anything against the wishes of the deceased; however, I am sure those arrangements that they wanted when they were alive don't matter to them now. I'm sure that they have much bigger interests now that they are in Heaven and do not care what we on Earth want to do to grieve and to commemorate their lives.
I've got to believe that once we are in Heaven and comprehend Jesus a little better, we won't care about Earth stuff - even murder.
ReplyDeleteAll sorts of sins can be forgiven.
Apparently, the only unpardonable sin is to refuse to send money to self-appointed religious con-artists.
Anonymous July 6, 2020 at 12:59 PM
ReplyDeleteQuesteruk July 6, 2020 at 3:50 PM
Both comments have always been on my mind. 12.59PM says, " Why the prejudices or bias in God if He is just and powerful?" Logical. As for Questeruk, his reasoning is also logical.
Between the two, I give God the benefit of doubt and go for Questeruk's explanation.
ReplyDeleteWhat's depicted is a criminals and ACOGs ministers wet dream, and will never happen.
God is not cruel or indifferent to justice as the cartoon implies.
11:16
ReplyDeleteAnd then "righteous" 11:16 discovers that "little Timmy" is actually Thimo, the son of the East Poland Gauleiter under Himmler and a jewish man had come to take revenge. And Jesus says that the grief stricken man had repented of that.
My point.
What do "righteous fools" like 11:16 actually know to speak, or have an opinion on what God knows, or basis of information he decides upon. Let alone the concept of justice, which is always contextual.
Nck
I believe what the caption says above, however I doubt that Jesus would inform us in such a way. God said that he creates evil and that he creates good. I think within those two opposites lies a vast area for repentance even up to the most egregious of crimes. I often think of Judas. He allowed is love for money to rule over him so that he betrayed Jesus maybe thinking he was only going to get a good beating. Once he saw that death was going to be involved, Matthew 27 shows us that he had deep regret for what he did. Who's to say that Hitler did not have this remorse after his great atrocities to mankind? Or any other person or persons who have committed crimes against humanity at any level. I get it because I am human as well. We automatically feel that we have the right to be judge, jury and executioner in things that we see. If we believe in a creator God and what scripture says, we do not. Not a one of us understand the great depth and understanding of God. What his ultimate plans are, etc...we work within a very limited realm of understanding that has a roof over it for now.
ReplyDeleteWhy without provacation pick on 11:16 like a school playground bully nck?
ReplyDelete11:05
DeleteHello 11:05.
A schoolyard bully?
Just a lawyers reaction to the use of the word "never" and the implication of 11:16 to know all the fact and what justice pertains. In short, the arguments put forth sounded like "mobrule." That was the provocation, nothing personal, strictly academic.
Thank you for your defense of the poor soul.
Nck
A lawyer nck ? In dreams perhaps.
DeleteThis is a bit like the classic story of Corrie Ten Boom meeting the Nazi guard from her concentration camp. God is willing to forgive ALL sinners - and so should we:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.guideposts.org/better-living/positive-living/guideposts-classics-corrie-ten-boom-on-forgiveness
Is. 65:17
ReplyDeleteFor, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Doesn’t it state in the Scriptures that all the evil of this world won’t even come to mind in Paradise?
ReplyDeleteSo why would our Savior be pointing out the sins of one saved sibling’s past life to another saved sibling?
Anon, July 8, 2020 at 6:49 AM,asked:
ReplyDelete"Doesn’t it state in the Scriptures that all the evil of this world won’t even come to mind in Paradise?
So why would our Savior be pointing out the sins of one saved sibling’s past life to another saved sibling?"
******
There are a lot of very interesting comments by others on this particular thread, and FWIIW, after that 2nd resurrection occurs, the following verse will apply:
Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
:32 Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
So, people will remember the evil that had occurred in their former live; however, that evil, or anything like it, will never ever occur in their lives again. This is all God's doings. He is the One that grants/gives repentance to people, who will also be educated to understand things like:
- the evil that was present with them (Romans 7:21)
- sin had been in each of their lives (Romans 7:17, 20)
- the spirit that had been within them (James 4:5; John 8:44), and no more is in them in Paradise
- why their minds focused so much on flesh wrestling flesh (Eph 6:12)
- what Satan had been doing (I John 3:8, 12; 2 Tim 2:26)
- why they were the children of obedience (Eph 2:2), but are no longer as such in Paradise
- why the flesh (Rom 7:18) was such a problem in their former lives
It may be worthwhile to consider the context of those two verse cited above in Ezekiel 36:
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited.
36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it].
37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet [for] this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do [it] for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD. [{holy … : Heb. flock of holy things}
Is that all somehow going to be taken care of by God, by His Spirit, through Jesus Christ? Really?
Time will tell...
John
Hey 12:42
ReplyDeleteI have a legal question for you.
I learned that the Supreme Court upheld the defense in a rape case in Muskogee Oklahoma that half of the State is Native American property.
Could you please find out if PCG HQ is built on Native American lands and Gerald Flurry is soon going to report to his superiors in the Teepee.
I need to adjust the Government Chart of the Universe into God ----- XJesXusX Christ --------The Chief of the Muskogee tribe --------Gerald Flurry---------the 3 other non legal members in the bylaws-----------the cream of the crud lay membership without rights
nck
Ex670
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying.
Yet I also understand anonymous 6h of july's point on Gods behavior.
In most civilized countries except the United States, which may not be ranked as a civilized nation, "sollicitation","instigation" or "provocation of crime" by the police is illegal and to be condemned.
nck