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With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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Sunday, July 5, 2020
Dave Pack and his ministers continue their vile treatment of members
.. My 82 year old mom and my sister are in the RCG. My mom has a small pension, my sister is looking after her and doesn’t have an income. I sometimes give them money, bring them groceries. Make sure there’s food on the table for them. They struggle financially.
My sister told me today that their ‘minister’ called her last week to ask her about her Pentecost offering: they hadn’t received it yet.. These sharks have the nerve to tell two people with NO money and a very low income to send money! My mom and sister were in tears about it, asking for my help so they could give some money to ‘the church’.
Ezekiel 34: And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say unto them, ‘Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds: Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe yourselves with the wool, ye kill the ones that are fed; but ye feed not the flock.
That woman's mother and sister KNOW THE RULES. You give an offering on each Holy Day. It can literally be A PENNY and you're obeying the law. If the mother and sister sincerely believe in Armstrongism, surely they can find ONE STINKING PENNY to obey their beloved law. If they can't find seven cents per year to obey their God, they must be spending their money very stupidly.
My guess, however, is that they want MORE MONEY so Pack will think MORE HIGHLY of them. That's vanity. And it's wrong.
This woman's mother and sister should PAY THE DAMN SEVEN CENTS, or GET OUT OF THE CULT. The fact that they want it both ways, to stay in the cult while using OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, suggests that there's something wrong with them.
Send them 2 mites, and see if they appreciate it as much as Jesus did.
How much is a mite? Now that is a great question! The original mite, as noted in previous posts, was 2 small copper coins (about a penny). That was the actual worldly monetary value. But since that donation of 2 copper coins was recognized by Jesus Christ, the most dominating figure in all of human existence, and since the widow’s mite was added as an account in a gospel of the Bible, the most read book in all of history, we think the value of that first mite is obviously of much greater value than what the world put on it.
Ye shall not come before the Lord empty handed used as a bully stick.
I am reminded of Mr. Pack's comments concerning Holy Day offerings:
"It has come to my attention that some have not sent in their offerings. Who are you fooling, except yourself. Your not fooling God"!
"For those that haven't sent their offerings in yet, I ask you this; by what chance do you think you will enter the Kingdom of God".
"Now a comment with Pentecost coming soon. Pentecost is a stand alone Holy Day and God's people have traditionally given 20% more on this day than the Spring Holy Days".
"I want to thank God's people, for the offering was exactly 20% more than UB".
"Brethren, we need that money now. We have big things planned that if I told you of them, you wouldn't believe it".
"From this point forward, all Holy Day offerings are to be mailed between services and sent next day delivery with tracking information forwarded to us".
"I just want to make a comment for a minute. One minister blatantly disobeyed me. We contacted him because we didn't receive any tracking information concerning the offering. He told us he mailed it the next day and thought that was okay. He was immediately fired".
"All offeratory envelopes are to remain unsealed until the conclusion of the offeratory. This is what Mr. Armstrong instituted and we are going to continue it".
Obviously Mr. Pack is all business when it comes to gleaning the whole field that the poor planted themselves.
Unless they can exploit you in some manner, you are not welcome in these ACOGs. It's like in ancient Romes conquered territories. They knew what every person owned and taxed the crap out of everyone.
Why don't Mom and SIs leave that awful church? If they're going to stay, they should pay their own money. If it's "not enough" for Pack, that's Pack's problem. Mom and Sis know that their religion demands Holy Day offerings, even if they're just a widow's mite. Pay the money, or leave the church. What's the problem?
They’re way too far in and too indoctrinated by ‘the church’ to leave. It’s as if they fear for their lives! Constantly talking about ending up in the lake of fire, about losing their ‘one chance’. It doesn’t matter what others tell them about this ‘church’.
If you can't pay then you can't play. I personally know of someone who has sent in literally thousands of dollars to this organization, more than enough to cover the offerings of those who don't have so much to send in. This person also got a message stating that the Pentecost offering didn't get sent in, how they have the balls to tell someone to pay up when they have already paid enough for the next 20 years. Come to find out that the offering had been sent, they just didn't get the numbers right.
Anonymous at 6:54 PM said...“Pay the money, or leave the church. What's the problem?”
First, people get DECEIVED into thinking that a satanic imposter cult Dave Pack's tiny little Restored Cash Grab (RCG) cult is God's one and only true church on planet Earth. They fall for Dave Pack's unreasonable “reasoning,” and illogical “logic,” and his scores of “proofs” that prove nothing. They go along with all of Dave Pack's endless doctrinal changes and new prophetic nonsense that he makes up continually.
Then, they feel HELPLESS in the face of Satan's raging false prophet Dave Pack. All of Dave Pack's ranting and raving, and yelling and spitting, and warning and threatening, and lying and stealing, leaves them intimidated and fearful.
Dave Pack tells them over and over and over that they must hand over everything they have to him or else they lack faith and will hit the lake of fire with a splash and a sizzle. Dave Pack's “common” theft loot does NOT get distributed to those in need in the RCG. In fact, those who have nothing more to give to Dave Pack's RCG cult get cast out destitute. Satan's false prophets are BRUTAL and CRUEL.
6.54 PM Your point of why not leave that awful church has been brought up many times on this blog. It's not that simple. Members are often trapped in these cults for a variety of reasons. Among them are having family members in the group, and fear of losing ones salvation. And their leaders will not settle for "just a widows mite," since they are morally neo mafia.
Many of us have left both PCG and RCG and never looked back! If the members would read their Bibles and stopped listening to their "sermons" and reading the church literature that they produce, they will leave. They will know the truth, and it will set them free!
The example of these 2 women, (who should probably be receiving 3rd Tithe assistance) shows the terrible misunderstanding that most COG members have about tithes, and offerings.
I too concur: do not see any problem here; it's a perfectly balanced equation: he has what they need (salvation)<-->and they have what he needs (money)
It's how the Paris Notre Dame cathedral's construction was funded when income dropped: the leaders started offering sin absolution for fee: the money poured in: Christians wouldn't have it any other way: they'll do anything for salvation.
Write a check for 2 cents. A widows mite. If they complain write a letter to the Wadsworth newspaper. Maybe they will print it, then again they may back the cult for a little something for themselves.
Look, I stand against Armstrongism just as much as anybody, I believe. But this account is quite spare in the evidence it proffers. This scenario could be imagined, without first hand witness by bloggers, in many different versions, some innocuous, some sinister. I don't think we can validly sort this out.
Maybe the response should have been: "We're glad you called. We would like to apply for Third Tithe assistance."
They’re way too far in and too indoctrinated by ‘the church’ to leave. It’s as if they fear for their lives! Constantly talking about ending up in the lake of fire, about losing their ‘one chance’.
Something's still not right about this. It's one thing if they are fearful that they aren't giving enough of their own money. Only they and their consciences can make that determination.
But when they feel they must give other people's money in order to be accepted, surely they can see that this has nothing to do with God or the Bible. Bothering their relatives for money has nothing to do with Christianity. What would this woman do if, confronted by her mother and her sister, she sent the money to Pack in HER name, not in the name of Mom or Sis? It seems Mom and Sis want credit for giving something that isn't theirs to give. If they can't see that with this approach they have departed from Christianity, then there's not much that can be done for them.
So sad .. My mom is in the RCG as well (she started her COG journey in World Wide long time ago). And over the years we’ve watched how she gave almost everything to them. She never got anything in return as far as I know
Anonymous at 10:09 AM said...“So sad .. My mom is in the RCG as well (she started her COG journey in World Wide long time ago). And over the years we’ve watched how she gave almost everything to them. She never got anything in return as far as I know”
She never got anything from David Pack's RCG cult in return for her money?
It could have been worse.
Gerald Flurry's PCG cult will give you plenty of dung and abuse in return for your money.
The "open envelope" idea during offertories also was promoted by Joseph Tkach after he became Pastor-General - and he had a reputation of firing up the brethren in those messages to give more.
Te idea actually is sensible. What's the point of an offertory message if everyone's already sealed up their offerings?
Send in a SHINY bright, brand new Penny in an envelope. It will cost them more than that to process it and to mail you a receipt for it. Better still, EARMARK your donation for a dedicated special cause , which (by law) the organization must use for that purpose.
I am in the process of getting a group of international lawyers from Germany and Asia. I want my money back . So do others. Contact me and add your names to the list. Jamisonyan@hotmail.com
7:26 I don't know if consumer protection covers a religious package. My isurance doesnt even cover international travel anymore since covid is not in the realm of "unforeseen circumstance" anymore. Nck
Ezekiel 34: And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy and say unto them, ‘Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds: Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flocks? 3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe yourselves with the wool, ye kill the ones that are fed; but ye feed not the flock.
ReplyDeleteThat woman's mother and sister KNOW THE RULES. You give an offering on each Holy Day. It can literally be A PENNY and you're obeying the law. If the mother and sister sincerely believe in Armstrongism, surely they can find ONE STINKING PENNY to obey their beloved law. If they can't find seven cents per year to obey their God, they must be spending their money very stupidly.
ReplyDeleteMy guess, however, is that they want MORE MONEY so Pack will think MORE HIGHLY of them. That's vanity. And it's wrong.
This woman's mother and sister should PAY THE DAMN SEVEN CENTS, or GET OUT OF THE CULT. The fact that they want it both ways, to stay in the cult while using OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY, suggests that there's something wrong with them.
ReplyDeleteHelpful reminder.
Notice who is in the number two position, and wants to be number one.
Much wisdom and warning is contained in this brief list.
Remember it.
THE FALSE PROPHETS
Satan's Favorites:
Gerald R. Flurry
David C. Pack
Dishonorable Mentions:
Ronald E. Weinland
Robert J. Thiel
https://www.emite.org/giving-encouragement/2017/10/29/how-much-is-a-mite
ReplyDeleteSend them 2 mites, and see if they appreciate it as much as Jesus did.
How much is a mite? Now that is a great question! The original mite, as noted in previous posts, was 2 small copper coins (about a penny). That was the actual worldly monetary value. But since that donation of 2 copper coins was recognized by Jesus Christ, the most dominating figure in all of human existence, and since the widow’s mite was added as an account in a gospel of the Bible, the most read book in all of history, we think the value of that first mite is obviously of much greater value than what the world put on it.
Ye shall not come before the Lord empty handed used as a bully stick.
ReplyDeleteI am reminded of Mr. Pack's comments concerning Holy Day offerings:
"It has come to my attention that some have not sent in their offerings. Who are you fooling, except yourself. Your not fooling God"!
"For those that haven't sent their offerings in yet, I ask you this; by what chance do you think you will enter the Kingdom of God".
"Now a comment with Pentecost coming soon. Pentecost is a stand alone Holy Day and God's people have traditionally given 20% more on this day than the Spring Holy Days".
"I want to thank God's people, for the offering was exactly 20% more than UB".
"Brethren, we need that money now. We have big things planned that if I told you of them, you wouldn't believe it".
"From this point forward, all Holy Day offerings are to be mailed between services and sent next day delivery with tracking information forwarded to us".
"I just want to make a comment for a minute. One minister blatantly disobeyed me. We contacted him because we didn't receive any tracking information concerning the offering. He told us he mailed it the next day and thought that was okay. He was immediately fired".
"All offeratory envelopes are to remain unsealed until the conclusion of the offeratory. This is what Mr. Armstrong instituted and we are going to continue it".
Obviously Mr. Pack is all business when it comes to gleaning the whole field that the poor planted themselves.
Unless they can exploit you in some manner, you are not welcome in these ACOGs. It's like in ancient Romes conquered territories. They knew what every person owned and taxed the crap out of everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't Mom and SIs leave that awful church? If they're going to stay, they should pay their own money. If it's "not enough" for Pack, that's Pack's problem. Mom and Sis know that their religion demands Holy Day offerings, even if they're just a widow's mite. Pay the money, or leave the church. What's the problem?
ReplyDeleteThey’re way too far in and too indoctrinated by ‘the church’ to leave. It’s as if they fear for their lives! Constantly talking about ending up in the lake of fire, about losing their ‘one chance’. It doesn’t matter what others tell them about this ‘church’.
DeleteIf you can't pay then you can't play. I personally know of someone who has sent in literally thousands of dollars to this organization, more than enough to cover the offerings of those who don't have so much to send in. This person also got a message stating that the Pentecost offering didn't get sent in, how they have the balls to tell someone to pay up when they have already paid enough for the next 20 years. Come to find out that the offering had been sent, they just didn't get the numbers right.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 6:54 PM said...“Pay the money, or leave the church. What's the problem?”
First, people get DECEIVED into thinking that a satanic imposter cult Dave Pack's tiny little Restored Cash Grab (RCG) cult is God's one and only true church on planet Earth. They fall for Dave Pack's unreasonable “reasoning,” and illogical “logic,” and his scores of “proofs” that prove nothing. They go along with all of Dave Pack's endless doctrinal changes and new prophetic nonsense that he makes up continually.
Then, they feel HELPLESS in the face of Satan's raging false prophet Dave Pack. All of Dave Pack's ranting and raving, and yelling and spitting, and warning and threatening, and lying and stealing, leaves them intimidated and fearful.
Dave Pack tells them over and over and over that they must hand over everything they have to him or else they lack faith and will hit the lake of fire with a splash and a sizzle. Dave Pack's “common” theft loot does NOT get distributed to those in need in the RCG. In fact, those who have nothing more to give to Dave Pack's RCG cult get cast out destitute. Satan's false prophets are BRUTAL and CRUEL.
6.54 PM
ReplyDeleteYour point of why not leave that awful church has been brought up many times on this blog. It's not that simple. Members are often trapped in these cults for a variety of reasons. Among them are having family members in the group, and fear of losing ones salvation. And their leaders will not settle for "just a widows mite," since they are morally neo mafia.
Isn’t it time the IRS looks into this ‘church’?
ReplyDeleteMany of us have left both PCG and RCG and never looked back! If the members would read their Bibles and stopped listening to their "sermons" and reading the church literature that they produce, they will leave. They will know the truth, and it will set them free!
ReplyDeleteThe example of these 2 women, (who should probably be receiving 3rd Tithe assistance) shows the terrible misunderstanding that most COG members have about tithes, and offerings.
6:54 PM: “Pay the money...what's the problem?”
ReplyDeleteI too concur:
do not see any problem here; it's a perfectly balanced equation:
he has what they need (salvation)<-->and they have what he needs (money)
It's how the Paris Notre Dame cathedral's construction was funded when income dropped: the leaders started offering sin absolution for fee: the money poured in: Christians wouldn't have it any other way: they'll do anything for salvation.
Write a check for 2 cents. A widows mite. If they complain write a letter to the Wadsworth newspaper. Maybe they will print it, then again they may back the cult for a little something for themselves.
ReplyDeleteLook, I stand against Armstrongism just as much as anybody, I believe. But this account is quite spare in the evidence it proffers. This scenario could be imagined, without first hand witness by bloggers, in many different versions, some innocuous, some sinister. I don't think we can validly sort this out.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the response should have been: "We're glad you called. We would like to apply for Third Tithe assistance."
They’re way too far in and too indoctrinated by ‘the church’ to leave. It’s as if they fear for their lives! Constantly talking about ending up in the lake of fire, about losing their ‘one chance’.
ReplyDeleteSomething's still not right about this. It's one thing if they are fearful that they aren't giving enough of their own money. Only they and their consciences can make that determination.
But when they feel they must give other people's money in order to be accepted, surely they can see that this has nothing to do with God or the Bible. Bothering their relatives for money has nothing to do with Christianity. What would this woman do if, confronted by her mother and her sister, she sent the money to Pack in HER name, not in the name of Mom or Sis? It seems Mom and Sis want credit for giving something that isn't theirs to give. If they can't see that with this approach they have departed from Christianity, then there's not much that can be done for them.
So sad .. My mom is in the RCG as well (she started her COG journey in World Wide long time ago). And over the years we’ve watched how she gave almost everything to them. She never got anything in return as far as I know
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:09 AM said...“So sad .. My mom is in the RCG as well (she started her COG journey in World Wide long time ago). And over the years we’ve watched how she gave almost everything to them. She never got anything in return as far as I know”
She never got anything from David Pack's RCG cult in return for her money?
It could have been worse.
Gerald Flurry's PCG cult will give you plenty of dung and abuse in return for your money.
The "open envelope" idea during offertories also was promoted by Joseph Tkach after he became Pastor-General - and he had a reputation of firing up the brethren in those messages to give more.
ReplyDeleteTe idea actually is sensible. What's the point of an offertory message if everyone's already sealed up their offerings?
Send in a SHINY bright, brand new Penny in an envelope. It will cost them more than that to process it and to mail you a receipt for it. Better still, EARMARK your donation for a dedicated special cause , which (by law) the organization must use for that purpose.
ReplyDeleteBetter still, EARMARK your donation for a dedicated special cause , which (by law) the organization must use for that purpose.
ReplyDelete"This penny is earmarked toward purchase of a ham (pork, not turkey) sandwich at the Giant Eagle deli counter."
Get several hundred pennies sent in that way, then a year later when Pack can't document purchase of that sandwich, send in the auditors.
I am in the process of getting a group of international lawyers from Germany and Asia. I want my money back . So do others. Contact me and add your names to the list. Jamisonyan@hotmail.com
ReplyDelete7:26
ReplyDeleteI don't know if consumer protection covers a religious package. My isurance doesnt even cover international travel anymore since covid is not in the realm of "unforeseen circumstance" anymore.
Nck