Davey is back after disappearing for a while in embarrassment that his Christ has not returned to Wadsworth. Not to disappoint any of us, Davey says his sermon on Saturday will be the most important sermon he has ever delivered in 50 years! Will JC finally be returning to Wadsworth?
A comment on another thread about his absence:
When has Davie ever gone this long without giving a message? He has egg on his face for constant looney failed prophecies (but genius too because if you wait long enough after the worst failure, the simple and foolish will forget). That or he is too scared to come out of his glided home to attend services for fear of COVID. Talk is cheap. If there is a sniffle in the congregation he is one of the first to avoid contact and stay away. A man who claims to speak with authority from God has to sneak in amd out through a back door and sit with only vetted, approved people. Give me a break!
My bet is on Dave announcing that he finally understands why Jesus hasn’t knocked on his door yet: because he is already there of course! Dare I say it?? Yes! Dave is Christ!
ReplyDeleteThat is what Dave has been secretly thinking these last years and also hinted at a few times.
And to think I left RCG before I heard this one. All I remember is that every sermon he gave was supposedly, "the most exciting and important message I have ever given", or something like that. I can't wait for the details from this new one...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the Christmas star expected this year gave him some new ideas.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it did Anon 4:44. Because last year Dave announced that he was sure that ‘Christ would arrive at Christmas!’(2019 that is).
DeleteThat puzzled everyone, because isn’t Christmas a pagan holiday? How could Christ arrive that date?
Guess what.. JC did not arrive.
How to give a "Dave Sermon"
ReplyDelete1. Be sure everyone knows that you have never quite given anything like it. Oh perhaps a few points about this 20 years ago, but nothing like this.
2. Be sure all points are overarching
3. Have many overarching points
4. Be somber, even threatening, in delivery
5. Be sure to say "We never really understood this. We could not have until now"
6. Never say "I never really understood this and still don't"
7. Inflict mental fatigue by speaking way too long until "Yeah fine whatever... is the only response the audience can give.
8. NEVER refer back to all the BS predictions that have come and gone. This may detract from your credibility at the moment.
9. Display your arrogance in a humble and godly way
10. Pretend that everyone knows who you are, when in fact no one does. Overarch if you have to.
11. Include Mr. Armstrong's name in the sermon and the exaggerated delusion that you trained personally under him at least three times.
12. Remind the brethren that the men on the council could not agree more with your conclusions and could find not one thing wrong or delusional about it.
13. Just make shit up. They will eat up whatever you say if you are confident about it. It does not have to be true. Just you be confident you are right as the past has clearly shown
14. Put the blame on the brethren when convenient for them not understanding. Truly a HWA approach and alternative to saying "Brethren, I was mistaken."
15. NEVER say "I was mistaken!" Say "We could not have known until now.." (Not "I"). "We did not have all the pieces of the puzzle until now!" NEVER refer to the fact that Art Mokarrow solved this puzzle long ago in his book, "God's Puzzle Solved."
16. Keep making shit up and fill in all the gaps in said shit with more of the same until it dries and holds firm the point you are making at the moment, which you can pretty much count on changing at a later date due tot he fact that God had not yet totally revealed it and you could have seen it coming...blah blah blah until now.
17. Take no questions and tolerate no doubts
18. Remind the brethren that NO ministers have left the church that you are willing to admit to. "They were with us but not of us" is a convincing phrase to repeat.
19. As an aside and relief from prophetic mental fatigue after hour two, remind the brethren that you have known the truth about ____________ for over 50 years now when you took The Harmony of the Gospels class at 18. Read the entire Old Testament in Old Testament Survey without any actual theological or historical teaching about it. Read the Epistles of Paul and The Letters and related them all the WCG, again without any context or historical background. Outlined The Genesis Flood by Whitcomb and Morris your second year. Read A Whale of a Tale, A Theory for the Birds which pretty much put the lie to Evolution clearly and irrefutably.
20. Give the impression you are a theologian and not just clever and a scripture cobbler in the tradition of "Here a little, there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept" making it all mean what you need it to mean but never actually meant or ever will.
21. "Mene Mene Tikal the brethren's Upharsins" and send them on their way reminding them they have oranges to sell, wills to turn over to RCG, cookies to bake, homes to sell and loans to take out for the work "because frankly, we flee and you'll never have to pay it back to the bank...."
And that's how you give a successful "Dave Sermon"
Sounds like every COG sermon I've ever heard for 27 years!
ReplyDeleteAnd then, after all that verbal diarrhea, I have heard RCG members say ‘Oh, this makes it all so much clearer to me! I finally understand those verses!’
ReplyDeleteOnly to find out, that if you ask them to explain it to you, they’ll start mumbling and stuttering because they’re as confused as anyone else, just too embarrassed/afraid to admit it..
And Dave knows that.
I just listened to an analysis of churches preoccupied with the apocalypse and predictive prophecy. In particular the presenter was talking about the "Left Behind" phenomenon. But the principles have broader application. He pointed out a couple of effects worth considering.
ReplyDelete1. Amygdala Hijack - by stirring up adrenaline about the Parousia and keeping people in that state of excitement, religious leaders enhance their control of followers. From the "Healthline" webpage on Amygdala Hijack:
"The amygdala disables the frontal lobes and activates the fight-or-flight response. . .
Without the frontal lobes, you can’t think clearly, make rational decisions, or control your responses. Control has been “hijacked” by the amygdala."
2. Sociologically, people who are very involved in predictive prophecy are "low church." You don't hear Episcopalians or Methodists spouting about prophecy. Why is there a connection between social class and view of prophecy? A parallel effect is found in the current political demographics. There is a great delta between Trump followers and those who do not follow Trump with regard to education. So much so that you can take your high school class and divide it into upper an lower parts based on grades. And you will find the Trump followers concentrated in the bottom half and the non-Trump people in the upper half. In short, we are not seeing in the overweening devotion to prophecy the effect of some divine moment but a phenomenon based principally on sociological status.
I did not characterize these effects in detail - you can read about them around the web. Both these effects need more study. If I had time, I would do it. It would force us to admit that some populist religious behaviors are rooted in sociology and psychology rather than action that some might like to attribute to God.
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SPOILER ALERT -- SPOILER ALERT -- SPOILER ALERT !!!
ReplyDeleteDave will declare that even God worships him, and that he is above God on the hierarchy chart.
Will today's sermon finally be Dave's, "Aw shucks, I'm David Christ after all" admission that we've seen coming for years?
ReplyDeleteI like that NEO.
ReplyDeletePerhaps another distinction.
Those that have it now and pursue betterment now.
Those that have non of it today and aim for "later" or a different world.
Nck
Neo wrote the following:
ReplyDeleteAnd you will find the Trump followers concentrated in the bottom half and the non-Trump people in the upper half. In short, we are not seeing in the overweening devotion to prophecy the effect of some divine moment but a phenomenon based principally on sociological status.
Well, well. Is that right? Perhaps these 'morons' believe in liberty and personal choice over government dictates. Did that ever occur to you?
Is NEO even American ?
DeletePerhaps these 'morons' believe in liberty and personal choice over government dictates.
ReplyDeleteWhat's fascinating is that so many people are willing to let the government take away their liberty and personal choice, as long as the taking is done by a demagogue who CLAIMS to be preserving their liberty and personal choice.
This is just as true of Biden supporters as Trump supporters. Yet Biden supporters will insist that their man (a bought and paid for tool of China and the credit card industry, and hardened statist) is the one preserving their liberty, just as Trump supporters will insist that their man (a hardened oligarch whose Cabinet has presided over the looting of the Treasury by business interests) is preserving theirs.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the Christmas star expected this year gave him some new ideas.
--------------------
Dave probably believes it will stop over his house to announce his coming.
NEO's comments raise the question can a Christian really be a psychologist?
ReplyDeleteDoes it walk well together?
Psychologists have a reputation for being sceptical atheists.
"After a whole semester of studies in psychology, I conclude that it is impossible to be a psychologist and a Christian at the same time" a psychology student.
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2:14
That's why Jesus three days in the grave cannot be accepted by some.
Neo and 9:26,
ReplyDeleteAs stated Trump supporters do care about liberty more. Just look at our Bill of Rights to compare the two major parties.
1) freedom of speech and religion- obviously this is more protected under Trump...less cancel culture, more rights to run businesses as you wish, more rights to practice your religion as you choose. Freedom of assembly protected more under Trump.
2) no question the right to bear arms is more protected under Trump.
3 and 4) Trump greater protects personal property right and usage
5,6,7) more support of legislatures by Trump than of regulatory agencies that make their own rules and judgments without legislative action thus acting as despots
8) Democrats like hillary and Harris worked in prosecution, Harris giving harsh penalties and Hillary fired by her own prosecution team as she was willing to lie to achieve a harsher verdict. Dems often impose harsher fines and penalties on working men and women.
9) Dems often place one right over another and ignore the other rights.
10) Dems desire more power by the US government over the states whereas Trump believed local and state governments should have more decision making functions.
NEO
ReplyDeleteCollege has become a Marxist indoctrination camp, so it's to be expected that these will be Sanders/Biden supporters. It's those who have to live "in the real world" like mom and pop restaurant owners, who see the way the world really works, and hence vote for Trump. After all, it was the "educated" Pharisees who rejected Christ, and the lowly fishermen and similar who embraced Him.
Practically all ministers by the behavior claim to be Mr___Christ.
11:02 Why does that matter?
ReplyDeleteOh so NEO is not American. Well, well figures.
Delete
ReplyDeleteMr. Dennis Diehl said: "How to give a "Dave Sermon" points 1-21.......
That is a pretty good job Mr. Diehl for someone who was never a member of Dave's world.
The "most important sermon ever" happenings were almost always the most theological bummers one could personally experience. I personally called the ministry on two of "them" to complain never getting a reply and another "one" was two and one quarter hours long about himself personally, prophetically and supposed future accomplishments.
Dave Pack is a charge forward careless bull. Dave always thinks new enlightenment has given him the path from point A to point B. The problem always is that there is a fine china shop in between point A and point B that Dave charges right through on his way to bring an exciting conclusion for his eager to hear membership and ministry.
The concept of Jesus Christ returning soon is a wonderful concept as is. Jesus Christ coming from the sides of the North and returning to Israel (Wadsworth, Ohio) and creating a column of fire on campus and starting his mustard seed kingdom and with Jesus being physically present but unapproachable and and and, is the creation of multiple (exciting to some) conclusions with a trail and history of multiple fine china shops being crashed and destroyed by the raging bull.
All of my rules will apply to this "most important ever" sermon today. If the comment is made that "all of the ministers agree with me and can't see it any other way", that means all of the ministers will be wrong once again. If the comment is made that "I have 50 undeniable proofs of "this" happening", that means there are 50 reasons why it won't happen in that specific time or way. If the comments are made: "on the authority of God" or "do you think God would let me get this wrong", then that means yes yes, God is going to let you get this wrong on his authority. If the comment is made that it is impossible for A, B or C not to happen during this month or day, that means it is very possible for all of it to be woefully wrong.
Those are my hard and fast rules for surviving Dave's world churcherama.
President Trump declared "perhaps the most important speech of my Presidency" - and put it on social media, because probably even Fox News would have turned him down or cut him off for being "chock full of falsehoods" (Tamara Keith, NPR).
ReplyDeleteWhy should I think this David Pack message is any better?
Why should you think Dave’s message is any better?
DeleteEasy: because Dave says so! And Dave is full of himself (and something else also)
Good points Anon 11:52
ReplyDeleteWhy would it not matter 11:53?
I am an American. I am a conservative. And I know what conservatism is. And D. Trump is not one. He is a populist demagogue and, now, a cult leader. And he will step not only on your freedoms but also your face if you get in the way of his self-interests. And if you cannot see that, I cannot help you. Nobody can help you. But I do recommend that your license to practice politic be cancelled to protect us all.
ReplyDeleteBye (that means I am not coming back to this post).
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No need to defend yourself NEO. Don’t take it personal.
DeleteThe topic is Madman Dave and his Weirdness. So keep your eye on that ball. It’s a bit like politics really.. The most difficult thing is not to get personally involved.
Bye (that means that I am not coming back to this post).
ReplyDeleteHow many times have I experienced that reaction while I attended services? One house wife, after expressing a pet belief at her home, began to repeatedly yell over me when I began to disagree. It was common for members to believe that they had extra or special rights in their own home. Freedom of speech didn't exist for guests. Or members would rush and complain to the minister if I disagreed with them, no matter how civil I was.
So for the record, if a person expresses a belief, they have tacitly entered into a contract which gives the other party the right to reply. That is, relationships are two way. Which is why the expression "one another" eg "love one another" appears over 50 times in the bible.
Well written Anon 7:16. Love includes respect which is woefully missing in many. Hear their opinion and be dammed if you don't agree.
Delete
ReplyDeleteSo what was the message?
What if it was the order to flee?
I guess us freeloaders will not get vital instructions (like the time-critical cue to flee)
- another advantage of being a fully paid-up member of the 'one-true Armstrong remnant'!
Why sooo prickly NEO. The bristles are rustled and don't readers see it. Loud and clear. Very easily upset NEO.
ReplyDeleteTrumps a Republican last time I looked. Conservative what NEO ? Conservative Republican or Conservative Democrat ? Though you sounded more like Conservative Maggie Thatcher.
Bye (that means I am not coming back to this post)
ReplyDeleteMy aren’t we a delicate little snowflake neo??!! You must be fun at parties.
*You slam open the door*
“You guys are all losers and this party sucks! Just came here to let you know!”
*End scene*
Well don’t slam the door on your way out and thanks for dropping by!
Buh bye!