Guest post:
Time for a better path
# 1 The power of good deeds.
The COG does not let its light shine. Although there are stellar individuals or ministers that care about the poor such as Daniel Botha or Wes White it is clear that most of the leadership does not.
The COG has all sorts of absurd rationales rooted in HWA's selfish greed to avoid helping others and doing good deeds. It is one of the major reasons they are so despised now and have such a bad reputation. But that doesn't have to be true for the members.
The membership should listen carefully to the voice of Christ,set aside the delusional rationalizations and traditions of their leadership that render the word of God of no effect, and do good deeds that honor God.
Matthew 5:14 Let your light shine. A city on a hill cannot be hidden . Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it give slight to everyone in the house. In the same way , let your shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
# 2 It is Time to be Better Stewards
Since the collapse of WCG in 1995 the offshoots have taken in at least half a billion dollars. What do we see for this huge investment? Unfortunately we have stagnant and dying churches. The COG talks about growth, but the truth is the churches are instead rapidly growing old and dying. Perhaps one of the reasons is the money is not going to do a work.
For example, to its shame COGWA only invests 10% of its resources in the public proclamation of the gospel and UCG is almost just as stingy with about only 20%.
One would have thought with all that money and time the COGs would now have a vast library of TV programs, books and other materials that are well researched and relevant for this generation. Sadly that is not the case for much of what has been produced (e.g., LCG's poorly designed materials). If you doubt this just show some of the church materials to teenagers and see how interested they are in them.
Christ told his disciples to let nothing be wasted (see John 6:12). But the membership of LCG, UCG and COGWA waste their time and money being involved in such unproductive churches. The members of the COG need to become better stewards, by carefully considering how their money is spent and vociferously demanding changes if it is being squandered or siphoned off. If things do not improve in your church then defund them, and donate to other biblical organizations that are bearing fruit.
A mountain of evidence has come to light documenting the sins of HWA and the leadership of the former WCG and how the church treated people with brutality. One would think that this would have led to some type of public remorse and repentance on the part of the present COG leadership. Instead they ignore the plain admonition in Proverbs that fools mock making amends for sins (see Proverbs 14:9). If they are unwilling then the membership should humble themselves by expressing remorse, disavow any rationalizations for these sins, and make amends by treating people –especially the least among us -- with respect and love.
Aristophanes
This would be wonderful if it happened but do not hold your breath. Far too many in the COG are complacent and don't want to rock the boat.
ReplyDeleteNo change will ever happen. To admit HWA was a monster would destroy the foundation the ACOG's were built upon.
ReplyDeleteThis is what UCG, LCG, PCG, RCG and even Bobus Thiel claimed they were doing. None of them has accomplished this and instead have become perverted personality cults that revolve around the leaders who preach perversions of the gospel. The best thing that the COG can do is admit it is broken and shut down.
ReplyDeleteAmen to that!
DeleteThe ACOG churches are like some traditional forms of martial arts. About 80% is worthless in a real fight, but it's still taught because of tradition worship.
ReplyDeleteThis is an insightful post and a great service to the COGs.
ReplyDeleteIf the COGs were inclined to be introspective, they could also consider a quest to grow in their understanding of Jesus.
They could start by examining what the "so-called Christians" believe about Jesus and determining if these beliefs are backed by Scripture. They could also consider why they are so dis-interested in the attributes of Jesus that excite the "so-called" Christians.
This post is for that apostate babbler Diehl who blasphemously asserted in his Nov 30th post, under "CCOG, things..." (Nov 29), that God broke the law by committing fornication when He impregnated Mary.
ReplyDeleteDiehl is playing with danger by implying that Christ was born of fornication, since the Pharisees were put to shame by His resurrection from the dead. Not only that, he asserts that God doesn't exist, which makes him a double fool since the Pharisees at least believed in God's existence, even if they didn't believe in Christ.
Secondly, Mary was impregnated in a divine supernatural way, not in the typical fleshly manner. It was a divine impregnation, not an act of illicit sexual intercourse. There is a difference here. It wasn't a case of one bearing an evil desire (lust) in order to commit a lawless act (fornication). It was a case of fulfilling a deliberate design (intelligence) in order to redeem mankind from its sins (goodness). God created the law; He doesn't break His own law (which is a higher law, Gal 5:23). Otherwise, you wouldn't exist.
When a woman desires a child and goes to a semen bank to produce one, does the doctor commit fornication when he implants her with a fertilized egg, or is he simply a go-between? Does the woman commit fornication when she deliberately accepts the semen of a stranger into her womb? Or is it fornication if the doctor just mechanically inserts the semen alone without preparing a fertilized egg first? So how can it be fornication for the Godhead when all three decided to enter a human body? Who created and owns the soul and body? (1 Cor 6:19-20) Is Dietz saying that the holy Spirit illegally intruded into Mary's womb against her will? If so, why was Mary filled with the joy of the holy Spirit? Where is the sin since Paul says that fornication is a sin against the body? (1 Cor 6:18) Did God injure Himself or Mary by His actions? Is Dietz, like Job, accusing God of sin? Dietz, a former minister, not only doesn't know God, he doesn't know what the holy Spirit is, whether it is a person or if it is good (life-giving) or bad (fornication) for the body?
Even your definition of fornication as an act of intercourse between the unmarried or gods is incorrect. In the infamous example of 1 Cor 5 the woman fornicater is married.
The other fool who asked if God was married when He impregnated Mary doesn't know who or what God is when he asks that question. God isn't married to anyone. God is the great Husbandman who planted the first seed (Christ) so that the church could be married to His Son.
What COC leaders like Flurry, Pack, Thiel and others don’t understand, is that if they would change their ‘churches’ they would stop losing members (probably even gain members again).
ReplyDeleteBut all of these maniacs are to self absorbed to see that. All they want is power and the good life that comes with it. They are not looking for God or trying to follow in Christ’s footsteps. They teach one thing, and one thing only: how to make money with a scam.
Meanwhile the members stay put, too afraid to move, hoping and praying for better times.
9.23 PM
ReplyDeleteDennis has been making these types of cheap shots at the bible and belief in God for years. If he was a legit atheist, why would he even bother?
He's definitely playing with fire, and like many a present and past privileged minister, he doesn't understand how dangerous the world can be.
I have a family member who insists that LCG accepts the New Covenant and has grown in grace and knowledge of Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI actually believe that is true, to a very small extent.
However, when I ask him to send proof of LCG accepting the New Covenant and growing in grace and knowledge, I never receive anything.
I do get many articles about law, Holy Days, and the pagan roots of Christmas and Easter.
The Holy Days seem to be the hot topic that COGers are pushing as proof that they are the the only real deal. They never answer questions about why they do not keep the Holy Days according to the complete biblical instruction. Some seem to have an awareness that ceremonial law is no longer required but, they have inconsistent methods of determining what is ceremonial law and what is moral law.
Jesus is the danger zone. The more the COGs would dare to try to grow in their understanding of Jesus as Savior by studying biblical terms such as grace and justification, the more their religion crumbles.
This post is succinct and right on target. Kudos!
ReplyDeleteWhen a woman desires a child and goes to a semen bank to produce one, does the doctor commit fornication when he implants her with a fertilized egg, or is he simply a go-between? Does the woman commit fornication when she deliberately accepts the semen of a stranger into her womb? Or is it fornication if the doctor just mechanically inserts the semen alone without preparing a fertilized egg first? So how can it be fornication for the Godhead when all three decided to enter a human body?
ReplyDeleteUh, oh, I think we just saw the outline of Bwana Bob's next sermon. And one of his better organized ones, I might add!
Anon 9:23 apparently hasn't read Jeremiah 3:14. Even leaving aside the problem of Asherah, scrubbed from history by the priests who returned from Babylonian exile, God would have had a hard time coping with the original WCG rules about D&R.
ReplyDeleteYou're asking that the Churches of God become New Testament Christians in understanding and practice. Too late....
ReplyDeleteHow did James describe TRUE religion? Taking care of those in need and keeping yourself from the corruption of the world. Be ethical and helpful. Whatsoever you do to the least of these . . . you do to me. I don't recall hearing these passages preached from the pulpits of the WCG. But I did hear a lot of sermons on church government, submission and, of course, tithing. That tells you what the leadership valued most.
ReplyDeleteThey are incapable of change due to the religion being all about the money.
ReplyDelete5.50 AM
ReplyDeleteAccording to Revelation, James generation was not offered the Philadelphian reward. Less was asked of them. So keeping oneself from this world's corruption and being helpful will not qualify a person for a top position in Gods government.
No, 8:47AM, Revelation says no such thing. That is, unless you want to accept the connected premise, that YOU in the Laodicean Era are not being offered the Philadelphian reward any longer.
ReplyDeleteThose who teach Church Eras usually teach that while there is a DOMINANT attitude in consecutive eras throughout history, all rewards are available at all times, for those who display the appropriate character and have the right fruits.
8:47am Just what part of "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." don't you understand?
ReplyDeleteChurches, plural!!!
All this talk about church eras, beliefs, scriptures..
ReplyDeleteLet’s face it, the WWCG and any of its splinters are NOT churches. All of them are cults, lead by self proclaimed prophets/Elijah’s/would be christs. All these ‘churches’ and their cult leaders ever cared for was money and power. Calling them Christians is blasphemy.
There was a time when I thought it was possible for the Armstrong Churches of God to evolve into a more enlightened and more Christian movement, but my own experiences have made me much less optimistic about the prospects of that ever happening. The changes outlined by Aristophanes would be a good start, but the voices of reason and kindness are often labeled as heretical and suppressed by the traditionalists within the movement. Of course, it is profoundly ironic just how much the ACOG culture has changed (and not in a good way) since the death of its founder, but most of the conservatives within the culture are completely oblivious to those changes (probably because they are viewed as logical extensions of the authoritarian and anti-traditional theology of Herbie). In other words, don't hold your breath!
ReplyDeleteI agree with the sentiment that Revelation says no such thing. To add to that thought, the idea that only a narrow band of people in the mid twentieth century or possibly a few who live on into the twenty-first century receive a "Philadelphian reward" and will thus receive the "top positions" in "God's government" is the height of arrogance and an extremely presumptuous idea.
ReplyDeleteTo illustrate this idea followed out to it's logical conclusion, one could claim that Old Testament patriarchs and matriarchs such as Noah and his wife, Abraham and Sarah, Moses, Ruth, Esther, Daniel, etc. were not offered the "Philadelphian reward" so they will not be extended the "top positions" in "God's government". But can this claim be justified Biblically? Did HWA and his followers have to endure a flood that wiped out all of civilization except their immediate family? Did HWA have God speak to him through a burning bush, or was he used to lead an entire nation of people out of slavery and to the borders of a different land, only to be denied access to that land himself because he lost his patience and temper with said people once? Did HWA or his followers have to endure being taken into captivity by a foreign King and subsequently face hungry lions for his loyalty to God? So, how pray tell was more expected of those whom many in the COGs believe to be the "Philadelphian era" than these people?
We could also examine James and his generation, which would have included the Apostles, and all first century followers of Christ. These people were persecuted both by the Roman government of the day as well as by some of the Jewish sects who rejected Jesus Christ as the true Messiah. Many of these people including most of the Apostles were executed for their beliefs, imprisoned, or had to go into hiding. Some were stoned, crucified, beheaded, burned as torches, or devoured by wild animals in front of cheering crowds of people. How many here can say that God has required this of us? HWA lived into his nineties, dying peacefully at home, and spent many of his later years traveling around the world on a private jet, eating off of gold china, being driven around by his own chauffeur, and having photo shoots, tea, and luncheons with various government officials and society elites. He didn't exactly live a life of suffering, poverty, or persecution, by Biblical standards, and most of us haven't either. To even compare ourselves or what has been required of "us" to the examples of what some of these people endured is both naive and short sighted to say the least.
A review of Matthew 20:20-28 might be in order, for those who would presume to speculate about positions and rewards given by God in His Kingdom. And as far as James 1:27 is concerned, many of us if honest with ourselves would have to admit that we fall far short when it comes to our obedience to even these guidelines. And if you include James 1:26, that would convict even more of us.
Concerned Sister
The answer is simple!
ReplyDeleteSING ALONG TIME!
Sing to the tune "What the World Needs Now" Jackie DeShannon 1965
https://youtu.be/IQ2SAtkEsqU
What the church needs now is love, sweet love...
It's the special thing that there's just too little of...
What the church needs now is love, sweet love...
No not just for some but for everyone
Lord, we don't need another splinter...
There are sects and splinters, enough to cry...
There are leaders and fakers enough, who want to boss,...
Enough to last, till the end of time..
What the church needs now is love, sweet love...
It's the special thing that there's just too little of...
What the church needs now is love, sweet love...
No, not just for some but for everyone
What is your obsession with songs Tonto? Are you missing the hymnal sing a longs during Sabbath services?
Delete"..all rewards are available at all times for those who display the appropriate character and have the right fruits."
ReplyDeleteThat's technically correct (sort of), but needs to be qualified. People like Abraham, Moses, Daniel, David, Noah (who lived 950 years) etc, were statistical deviants in the bell curve. And they hardly had ordinary environments. This wasn't true of most Christians through out history. Being stoned, crucified, beheaded, killed by wild animals etc, is not in the same league of doing a difficult four year engineering degree with a one in three pass rate. It's common sense that Christians living in today's era of moral collapse have a greater opportunity to develop character than previous generations.
People are delusional if they think that they can get top positions in the kingdom by only shunning evil and being nice. For many, this is not hard to do.
In the millennium, where's the "all rewards are available at all times to those who display the appropriate character etc"? It simply won't be there.
Btw, Moses wasn't denied access to the kingdom because he lost his temper, but rather what came to the surface, ie, putting himself as God before his people.
1.20 PM
ReplyDeleteIf Tonto wants to have a fetish for songs and dressing up as a Indian, that's fine with us on Banned. We are very broad minded.
Moses wasn't denied access to the Kingdom. He was denied access to the physical promised land, and there is absolutely no indication in scripture that God would exclude him from the Kingdom. He is included as a positive example of faith in Hebrews 11 as well as being included in the vision of the transfiguration of Jesus in Matthew 17:1-8.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that Moses did not uphold the holiness of God before the people in the incident recorded in Numbers 20:1-13, and that his actions both disregarded God's instructions, and broke faith with God in that instance. His actions seemed to be fueled by impatience and anger with the people, as demonstrated in Numbers 20:10-11, which was probably due to the fact that they had just accused him of bringing them into the wilderness to die. For failing to demonstrate faith in God, and failing to uphold God's holiness before the people, he was denied access into the promised land, as was Aaron. Deuteronomy 32:51-52, Numbers 20:12
The idea that Christians living in today's "era of moral collapse" are somehow granted more opportunity to develop character than previous generations could be contested. Evil is evil whether you live in the 1400's or the 2000's. If you are faced with the choice of denying your true beliefs in an inquisition or being burned at the stake as a heretic, your chance to display your inner character is just as valid. Moral depravity and corruption has existed in every era of history, and genuine persecution is something that few of us today have had to endure, at least at this point. Comparing the challenges or trials we might face or endure to those that others might have faced or endured is something Jesus warns against. John 21:18-22 We each have our own walk with God, and we work out our own salvation with trembling and fear. And while "shunning evil and being nice" might appear on the surface to be simple instructions, those instructions are easier said than done, especially when evil is so prevalent in the society or era one happens to live in. There is a reason why we are warned that the "love of many will grow cold." Matthew 24:12 It isn't just about "being nice". It's about showing proper love and care for those who are in need. It's about displaying the holiness of God to those around us, even in the face of moral temptation, hardship, criticism, or persecution. To dismiss the words of James as inconsequential for Christians living today displays a lack of true understanding of the depth of what those words imply and the actions they dictate.
Concerned Sister
Concerned Sister
ReplyDeleteThe scripture "love of many will grow cold" is typically quoted from the pulpit by abusive ministers who mis-apply the verse in an attempt to suppress the natural negative reaction from being abused, sometimes brutalized in order to achieve their desired end. So I question the interpretation of that verse.
That verse should also be seem in the light of Micah 7:5, which I have never experienced in HWAs church.
Micah 7:5 "put no trust in a neighbor; have no confidence in a friend; guard the doors of your mouth from her who lies in your arms."
I see the woke's in hiding are out in full force again under another name. Poked their wokey heads up above the trenches to throw an grenade bomb at the Sabbath Christians keepers again. Thrown off the Guy Fawkes mask. Well he was a Catholic wasn't he. The trench you jump up and attack from is the churches own trench. Well Tkach was from within too.
ReplyDeleteNotice how the article has a pop at the membership, not about the leaders that keep the Churches bone dry. Carn't do this, carn't do that. No ideas, nope nothing. It's the membership fault for not letting their lights shine. They haven't listened carefully to the voice of Jesus Christ. Really ?? True repentance also needed by the membership implying they cannot listen and cannot repent.
And of course as per usual readers are supposed to believe that an "ordinary Joe" wrote this and supported in the comments by other "ordinary Joe's". Yeah of course.
You tie the members arms behind their backs and then wokey berate them for not bringing in the change, you desire, but you haven't got the courage to admit in open.
You want the membership to do your dirty work for you. Why don't you listen to the voice of Jesus Christ instead.
To certain ones on this blog, there are advantages to being concise in a post and not droning on and on and on and on and on!
ReplyDelete5:44pm again, what part of "churches" don't you understand?
ReplyDeleteI do understand your confusion though, anyone out to "get" aka "earn" a position in the kingdom doesn't have a clue.
5:44pm again, what part of "churches" don't you understand?
ReplyDeleteI do understand your confusion though, anyone out to "get" aka "earn" a position in the kingdom doesn't have a clue.
8.39 AM
ReplyDeleteWould you like to clarify your position? You comment is mumbo jumbo to me.
Arrogant, prideful comment Anon 8:35
ReplyDeleteAddressing point #2, on being better stewards of their resources:
ReplyDeleteIn an episode of the TV series "Benson", they discovered an $8 million budget surplus, and had to figure out how to spend it before the fiscal year ended in just a few hours, so that the budget wouldn't be cut in the next year.
I'm reminded of this story when I think of the times I looked through LCG's "Tomorrow's World" TV-show episodes on their web site, and found many instances of their having made several different episodes covering the same topic. If the later episodes were improvements, then the earlier episodes would have been taken down. The fact that they're all left on the web site makes no sense to me. Why make more and more episodes rehashing the same topic? Do they have a quota, with a certain number of episodes having to be made each year, and they've run out of topics? It's like they MUST get rid of it, and they don't know how, so they waste it.
"I have an idea. Why don't we use it to help the members who are most in need?"
"Okay, that's just crazy talk."
"Yeah, you're right. What was I thinking?... I know! Let's make a 15th episode about the U.S. being destroyed by a European nuclear attack!"
(all of the others clapping, like on "Family Feud") "Good answer! Good answer!"
2:06pm Don't you mean "You've a bad attitude"? That is the old cliche isn't it?
ReplyDelete10:22am Do you seriously need clarification? That proves my point that many here are ignorant. Revelation chapters 2 and 3 has been the context of the specific conversation I was addressing, hence why I said to 5:44 (you?) "what part of churches don't you understand" meaning that all of the messages to the angels of the seven churches were meant for all the churches.
ReplyDeleteIf you need me to further hold your hand through the various conversations just let me know.
You people must feel satisfaction in making fun of individuals trying to obey God. How sad
ReplyDeleteAs Anon 2:06, no I do not mean "bad attitude". Why do you feel the need to assume that.
ReplyDelete