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Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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Thursday, December 3, 2020
Living Church of God Cancels Annual Christmas Weekends in Charlotte and Kansas City
Well, the boys in Charlotte actually made a good decision in canceling their upcoming annual Christmas celebrations. Though I doubt it was as much their decision as being forced to by the current COVID State closures sweeping the country the past couple of days. Either that or they had a lapse in faith that God would take care of them during this fun time of the year. After all, hasn't the COG always claimed God protects the church and its activities?
Anyway, good move on their part.
Charlotte and Kansas City Family Weekends Both to Be Rescheduled
We’ve been in regular contact this week with our Charlotte and Kansas City pastors, Messrs. John Strain and Rand Millich, about the planned family weekends scheduled to take place at the end of December. As we have been watching the trend of growing government restrictions on nonworship meetings, some difficult decisions have had to be made.
According to Mr. Strain, “We regret to announce that it is now necessary to cancel the family weekend planned for Charlotte that was scheduled for December 24–26. Current North Carolina statewide government regulations are too restrictive to allow for our planned activities and will affect access to area restaurants. This, as well as the current rate of COVID-19 infections, which is expected to increase in the weeks ahead, make this the prudent decision for the present time. We hope to reschedule this activity in the not-too-distant future.”
Kansas City is in a similar situation, according to Mr. Millich: “As local Health Department guidelines have gotten tighter and more complicated, the reality is that we will simply not be able to conduct the family weekend as planned. A different hall is currently being sought for regular Sabbath services, and it should be large enough to accommodate a few extra visitors. For those
near the Kansas City area, the snow activity should be able to go on as planned. We plan to reschedule the Kansas City family weekend for a later date.”
Thank you to everyone who showed interest in the family weekends. We are certainly disappointed that we are unable to have them at this time, as initially planned, but we hope to reschedule for a future time.
The NC Republican Party is getting flak for continuing to hold group events throughout December. LCG could hold their meetings if they wanted to. This is about something other than COVID, otherwise the Republicans wouldn't be choosing to meet.
The topic has been "beaten to death" here on the blog, however, as a Non-Xmas celebrator myself, I dont understand why people think that having an event that just so happens to coincide with Xmas time somehow makes you a reprobate of some type.
Even if there is a giant Xmas tree in the lobby, at the event, so what? There are lights on the houses around me at my residential house. Is someone somehow polluted by being within some arbitrary distance point of a Xmas display or lights, or even if you "lay eyes" on "something xmas"?
Hey, I will drink egg nog, or eat a candy cane if it comes my way or the like. Its just a drink or a candy. Now, if somehow it makes you think of an idol, or causes religious confusion for you, then dont eat those things. For me, it doesn't have any particular meaning or "religious experience" in the least.
Paul was clear about this in the New Testament in regards to the eating of meats offered before idols. When you visit the Pyramids, erected to the Deities of the Pharaoh, you can still be in wonderment and awe of the incredibleness of endeavor. One can enjoy the taste of the Sizzle of the Steak of the meat offered before idols without worshipping the idol.
The winter events by these churches are (arguably) held at times that are convenient to have them. Kids are off of school, a lot of businesses are wrapping up the year and are often slow, and the schedule of the world is accommodative. I really dont see this as some "work around" to try to celebrate Xmas thru the back door.
When the kids were little , I used to take them to Toys R Us the week after Xmas and let them have whatever toys they wanted. They were often marked down 50% or more. Same thing at Halloween, Id buy a couple of those big bags of candy that were marked down, and scarfed down a bunch of Peanut M&Ms myself! ;-)
Never once have I "celebrated" those days in my head, never connected them to the true worship of God, and see them for what they are... carnal, physical, meaningless revelry. Same goes for sparkly lights, and many other things that are just simple earthly distractions that people partake of.
To say that a Christian believer , that does not support the efficacy of days that originated non Biblicallly, has to stay at home, pull the shades down, and "hunker down" because of something going on with others, are being somewhat spiritually weak, again as Paul said in the NT.
Paul himself was willing to debate, engage , and discourse with the convention of Idolaters on Mars Hill. To take a quote from Joe Biden ---"C'mon Man" !
For most people celebrating Christmas has nothing to do with religion anymore. It is, like a lot of holidays, so hijacked by commerce that people don’t even know its origin anymore. In my family/friends/co workers circle Christmas is celebrated because the lights look pretty, the food is nice, and it is the perfect time to get together with friends and family when people are having some time of work.
What can be wrong with getting together with family and friends, sit down with some good food and spend some time together?
Doesn’t sound like satan’s work to me.. regardless what the COG’s say about that
SATURNALIA >>> CHRISTMAS >>> WINTER FAMILY WEEKEND
The pagans had things like Saturnalia.
The Roman Catholic Church seemed to think that Saturnalia was somehow wrong, so it renamed it Christmas. The Roman Catholic Church thought that renaming it and doing some things differently made everything okay. With “Christ” now in the name, who could criticize it?
Herbert W. Armstrong thought that Saturnalia and Christmas were both still somehow wrong, so he shunned both of them and instead observed the annual Holy Days given by God in the Bible.
After Herbert W. Armstrong's death in 1986, the LCG, UCG, and COGWA splinter groups all brought back Saturnalia/Christmas and renamed it the Winter Family Weekend. They thought that renaming it and doing some things differently made everything okay. With “Family” now in the name, who could criticize it?
For sure, the LCG, UCG, and COGWA could probably come up with smooth and clever arguments for their questionable behavior, but maybe it is really just because this is the Laodicea era of the church. All their attempts to change what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught and put their own stamps on their splinter groups look more like regression than like progress.
COGWA should have used its split from the UCG in 2010 as an opportunity to leave behind the Winter Family Christmas Weekend custom, just like the Protestants should have used their split from the Roman Catholic Church as an opportunity to leave behind Sunday-keeping and take up Sabbath-keeping. COGWA brags that its Winter Family Weekend is now its second largest convention after the Feast of Tabernacles, but why should the world be interested in COGWA's watered down and unfun version of what it already has?
If they were keeping Christmas they'd have nothing to repent of. The so-called "pagan origins" of Christmas are pop-cultural studies pseudohistory bunk fit to run alongside Pawn Stars on the inappropriately named History Channel.
9:26am Or, or, or they figured since all the kids were out of school during that time of the year then it would be a perfect time to start something for the kids. Like basketball, skating, etc. with likeminded friends.
Nice try Tonto but many consider it dodgy because the very same groups never have a organised get together during unleavened bread or any other holy day.
I don't think those turkey eating fun guys over at Rhode Island did celebrate anything remotely resembling like "christmas."
I mean, I have before me the journal of a shipscaptain from the earlier settlements in New Holland, paying a friendly visit to the English intrudors up North.
He records them whipping a couple of newlyweds and separating them for 3 weeks, because the puritans found out the young couple had had relations of the flesh before their wedding.
He records the sentence to be an "utter unpractical affair" and hard to understand.
Anyway, they could not have had merry christmasses at the time, because of their sinful nature, I'm sure.
Anonymous at 11:06 AM said...“9:26am Or, or, or they figured since all the kids were out of school during that time of the year then it would be a perfect time to start something for the kids. Like basketball, skating, etc. with likeminded friends. It's warped people like you who link it to xmas.”
OR, or, or ,or it is warped people like you who cannot see the link.
On December 1, LCG Expositor said: LCG's winter family weekend reminds me of Joshua and Caleb wanting to enter the promised land. Two faithful men wanted to obey God, but everyone else was afraid. When God chastened the fearful, they then tried to enter using their own strength and it was a disaster. When two faithful men, Monson and Fritz, moved forward in faith, the rest of LCG didn't want to follow. Now that Monson and Fritz are thriving, LCG (now properly chastened) has decided that it is a good idea to move forward. But this decision is not because they now have faith, no, they have just been put to shame by COGA's faith.
I'm not so arrogant to think that my post caused LCG to change their mind, but their cancellation may be an admission of their lack of faith.
Tonto 12/4 7:36 AM said: The topic has been "beaten to death" here on the blog, however, as a Non-Xmas celebrator myself, I dont understand why people think that having an event that just so happens to coincide with Xmas time somehow makes you a reprobate of some type.
Even if there is a giant Xmas tree in the lobby, at the event, so what? There are lights on the houses around me at my residential house. Is someone somehow polluted by being within some arbitrary distance point of a Xmas display or lights, or even if you "lay eyes" on "something xmas"?
Hey, I will drink egg nog, or eat a candy cane if it comes my way or the like. Its just a drink or a candy. Now, if somehow it makes you think of an idol, or causes religious confusion for you, then dont eat those things. For me, it doesn't have any particular meaning or "religious experience" in the least.
Paul was clear about this in the New Testament in regards to the eating of meats offered before idols. When you visit the Pyramids, erected to the Deities of the Pharaoh, you can still be in wonderment and awe of the incredibleness of endeavor. One can enjoy the taste of the Sizzle of the Steak of the meat offered before idols without worshipping the idol.
The winter events by these churches are (arguably) held at times that are convenient to have them. Kids are off of school, a lot of businesses are wrapping up the year and are often slow, and the schedule of the world is accommodative. I really dont see this as some "work around" to try to celebrate Xmas thru the back door.
When the kids were little , I used to take them to Toys R Us the week after Xmas and let them have whatever toys they wanted. They were often marked down 50% or more. Same thing at Halloween, Id buy a couple of those big bags of candy that were marked down, and scarfed down a bunch of Peanut M&Ms myself! ;-)
Never once have I "celebrated" those days in my head, never connected them to the true worship of God, and see them for what they are... carnal, physical, meaningless revelry. Same goes for sparkly lights, and many other things that are just simple earthly distractions that people partake of.
To say that a Christian believer , that does not support the efficacy of days that originated non Biblicallly, has to stay at home, pull the shades down, and "hunker down" because of something going on with others, are being somewhat spiritually weak, again as Paul said in the NT.
Paul himself was willing to debate, engage , and discourse with the convention of Idolaters on Mars Hill. To take a quote from Joe Biden ---"C'mon Man" !
Why don’t the COGs have family weekends during Holy Day seasons? Because there’s NOT EXTRA TIME OFF WORK AND SCHOOL like during the winter holiday season. During Unleavened Bread you take the first Holy Day off work and the last and are at work/school the rest of the time. Having family weekends around Christmas and New Years is truly due to convenience with time off.
Sharon not all jobs have shut downs during Christmas and New Years. Millions work during those days. It is a lazy excuse to say it's due to convenience.
Anonymous Anonymous said... Nice try Tonto but many consider it dodgy because the very same groups never have a organised get together during unleavened bread or any other holy day.
MY COMMENT: Dont the groups get together on those Holy Days and have services? Dont the groups convene FOT celebrations? Dont they organize camps and other outings at different times ? Your statement has no validity.
>>>Note to ANON 1:23- I have no idea who "Concerned Sister" is.
Tonto my statement has complete validity because vast amounts of money are spent on WFW. They hire complete professional fairground eqipment for stalls and mini rides that are not hired in any other event. Yet proclaim near poverty when it comes to hiring for Tabernacles.
12:06pm You are the warped one. Tell me, if you wake up on Dec. 25th morning, are you keeping xmas?
The cog getting together at a time when the whole world is on pause, no school, no work, does not mean they're keeping xmas you moron! Nor does it mean that "get together" is more important than the feasts of God!
"Sharon not all jobs have shut downs during Christmas and New Years. Millions work during those days. It is a lazy excuse to say it's due to convenience."
Wow. Just wow!
Ignorance on display there. Sharon did not say that everyone had xmas off. Warning, strawman alert, strawman alert. Totally twisting the subject.
Yeah!! I can finally put up my Christmas tree at home now that we’re not going!
ReplyDeleteIdiot
Delete
ReplyDeleteWinter Family X-mass Weekend
It is so sad that the only reason that LCG, UCG, and COGWA are cancelling their X-mass programs for this year is because of the COVID-19 scare.
It is so sad that LCG, UCG, and COGWA are not repenting of observing X-mass and cancelling their X-mass programs permanently.
The NC Republican Party is getting flak for continuing to hold group events throughout December. LCG could hold their meetings if they wanted to. This is about something other than COVID, otherwise the Republicans wouldn't be choosing to meet.
ReplyDeleteWe hope to reschedule this activity in the not-too-distant future.
ReplyDeleteValentine's Day Weekend?
The topic has been "beaten to death" here on the blog, however, as a Non-Xmas celebrator myself, I dont understand why people think that having an event that just so happens to coincide with Xmas time somehow makes you a reprobate of some type.
ReplyDeleteEven if there is a giant Xmas tree in the lobby, at the event, so what? There are lights on the houses around me at my residential house. Is someone somehow polluted by being within some arbitrary distance point of a Xmas display or lights, or even if you "lay eyes" on "something xmas"?
Hey, I will drink egg nog, or eat a candy cane if it comes my way or the like. Its just a drink or a candy. Now, if somehow it makes you think of an idol, or causes religious confusion for you, then dont eat those things. For me, it doesn't have any particular meaning or "religious experience" in the least.
Paul was clear about this in the New Testament in regards to the eating of meats offered before idols. When you visit the Pyramids, erected to the Deities of the Pharaoh, you can still be in wonderment and awe of the incredibleness of endeavor. One can enjoy the taste of the Sizzle of the Steak of the meat offered before idols without worshipping the idol.
The winter events by these churches are (arguably) held at times that are convenient to have them. Kids are off of school, a lot of businesses are wrapping up the year and are often slow, and the schedule of the world is accommodative. I really dont see this as some "work around" to try to celebrate Xmas thru the back door.
When the kids were little , I used to take them to Toys R Us the week after Xmas and let them have whatever toys they wanted. They were often marked down 50% or more. Same thing at Halloween, Id buy a couple of those big bags of candy that were marked down, and scarfed down a bunch of Peanut M&Ms myself! ;-)
Never once have I "celebrated" those days in my head, never connected them to the true worship of God, and see them for what they are... carnal, physical, meaningless revelry. Same goes for sparkly lights, and many other things that are just simple earthly distractions that people partake of.
To say that a Christian believer , that does not support the efficacy of days that originated non Biblicallly, has to stay at home, pull the shades down, and "hunker down" because of something going on with others, are being somewhat spiritually weak, again as Paul said in the NT.
Paul himself was willing to debate, engage , and discourse with the convention of Idolaters on Mars Hill. To take a quote from Joe Biden ---"C'mon Man" !
Notice nothing on "because we need to love our neighbors as ourselves" Bible stuff. Just "state restrictions"
ReplyDelete‘Love our neighbors’ isn’t in the COG dictionary Dennis. Not in their bibles either..
DeleteFor most people celebrating Christmas has nothing to do with religion anymore. It is, like a lot of holidays, so hijacked by commerce that people don’t even know its origin anymore. In my family/friends/co workers circle Christmas is celebrated because the lights look pretty, the food is nice, and it is the perfect time to get together with friends and family when people are having some time of work.
ReplyDeleteWhat can be wrong with getting together with family and friends, sit down with some good food and spend some time together?
Doesn’t sound like satan’s work to me.. regardless what the COG’s say about that
ReplyDeleteSATURNALIA >>> CHRISTMAS >>> WINTER FAMILY WEEKEND
The pagans had things like Saturnalia.
The Roman Catholic Church seemed to think that Saturnalia was somehow wrong, so it renamed it Christmas. The Roman Catholic Church thought that renaming it and doing some things differently made everything okay. With “Christ” now in the name, who could criticize it?
Herbert W. Armstrong thought that Saturnalia and Christmas were both still somehow wrong, so he shunned both of them and instead observed the annual Holy Days given by God in the Bible.
After Herbert W. Armstrong's death in 1986, the LCG, UCG, and COGWA splinter groups all brought back Saturnalia/Christmas and renamed it the Winter Family Weekend. They thought that renaming it and doing some things differently made everything okay. With “Family” now in the name, who could criticize it?
For sure, the LCG, UCG, and COGWA could probably come up with smooth and clever arguments for their questionable behavior, but maybe it is really just because this is the Laodicea era of the church. All their attempts to change what Herbert W. Armstrong had taught and put their own stamps on their splinter groups look more like regression than like progress.
COGWA should have used its split from the UCG in 2010 as an opportunity to leave behind the Winter Family Christmas Weekend custom, just like the Protestants should have used their split from the Roman Catholic Church as an opportunity to leave behind Sunday-keeping and take up Sabbath-keeping. COGWA brags that its Winter Family Weekend is now its second largest convention after the Feast of Tabernacles, but why should the world be interested in COGWA's watered down and unfun version of what it already has?
If they were keeping Christmas they'd have nothing to repent of. The so-called "pagan origins" of Christmas are pop-cultural studies pseudohistory bunk fit to run alongside Pawn Stars on the inappropriately named History Channel.
ReplyDeleteTonto, the reason they keep harping that WFWs are xmas celebrations is because of their ignorance!
ReplyDeletetONTO December 4, 2020 at 7:36 AM
ReplyDeleteIT DOESN'T MATTER. The holiday event is not Bob Thiel approved and everyone knows that Bob knows it all!
9:26am Or, or, or they figured since all the kids were out of school during that time of the year then it would be a perfect time to start something for the kids. Like basketball, skating, etc. with likeminded friends.
ReplyDeleteIt's warped people like you who link it to xmas.
Nice try Tonto but many consider it dodgy because the very same groups never have a organised get together during unleavened bread or any other holy day.
ReplyDeleteI don't think those turkey eating fun guys over at Rhode Island did celebrate anything remotely resembling like "christmas."
ReplyDeleteI mean, I have before me the journal of a shipscaptain from the earlier settlements in New Holland, paying a friendly visit to the English intrudors up North.
He records them whipping a couple of newlyweds and separating them for 3 weeks, because the puritans found out the young couple had had relations of the flesh before their wedding.
He records the sentence to be an "utter unpractical affair" and hard to understand.
Anyway, they could not have had merry christmasses at the time, because of their sinful nature, I'm sure.
Nck
“ .... because the puritans found out the young couple had had relations of the flesh before their wedding.m ....”
DeleteSounds like the average day in any of the COG’s :)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 11:06 AM said...“9:26am Or, or, or they figured since all the kids were out of school during that time of the year then it would be a perfect time to start something for the kids. Like basketball, skating, etc. with likeminded friends. It's warped people like you who link it to xmas.”
OR, or, or ,or it is warped people like you who cannot see the link.
On December 1, LCG Expositor said:
ReplyDeleteLCG's winter family weekend reminds me of Joshua and Caleb wanting to enter the promised land. Two faithful men wanted to obey God, but everyone else was afraid. When God chastened the fearful, they then tried to enter using their own strength and it was a disaster. When two faithful men, Monson and Fritz, moved forward in faith, the rest of LCG didn't want to follow. Now that Monson and Fritz are thriving, LCG (now properly chastened) has decided that it is a good idea to move forward. But this decision is not because they now have faith, no, they have just been put to shame by COGA's faith.
I'm not so arrogant to think that my post caused LCG to change their mind, but their cancellation may be an admission of their lack of faith.
Faith? What does faith has to do with the churches of god?
DeleteIt’s all about money and power. Or power and money. Take your pick.
"OR, or, or ,or it is warped people like you who cannot see the link."
ReplyDeleteThere is no link! It's all in your own warped mind.
Tonto 12/4 7:36 AM said:
ReplyDeleteThe topic has been "beaten to death" here on the blog, however, as a Non-Xmas celebrator myself, I dont understand why people think that having an event that just so happens to coincide with Xmas time somehow makes you a reprobate of some type.
Even if there is a giant Xmas tree in the lobby, at the event, so what? There are lights on the houses around me at my residential house. Is someone somehow polluted by being within some arbitrary distance point of a Xmas display or lights, or even if you "lay eyes" on "something xmas"?
Hey, I will drink egg nog, or eat a candy cane if it comes my way or the like. Its just a drink or a candy. Now, if somehow it makes you think of an idol, or causes religious confusion for you, then dont eat those things. For me, it doesn't have any particular meaning or "religious experience" in the least.
Paul was clear about this in the New Testament in regards to the eating of meats offered before idols. When you visit the Pyramids, erected to the Deities of the Pharaoh, you can still be in wonderment and awe of the incredibleness of endeavor. One can enjoy the taste of the Sizzle of the Steak of the meat offered before idols without worshipping the idol.
The winter events by these churches are (arguably) held at times that are convenient to have them. Kids are off of school, a lot of businesses are wrapping up the year and are often slow, and the schedule of the world is accommodative. I really dont see this as some "work around" to try to celebrate Xmas thru the back door.
When the kids were little , I used to take them to Toys R Us the week after Xmas and let them have whatever toys they wanted. They were often marked down 50% or more. Same thing at Halloween, Id buy a couple of those big bags of candy that were marked down, and scarfed down a bunch of Peanut M&Ms myself! ;-)
Never once have I "celebrated" those days in my head, never connected them to the true worship of God, and see them for what they are... carnal, physical, meaningless revelry. Same goes for sparkly lights, and many other things that are just simple earthly distractions that people partake of.
To say that a Christian believer , that does not support the efficacy of days that originated non Biblicallly, has to stay at home, pull the shades down, and "hunker down" because of something going on with others, are being somewhat spiritually weak, again as Paul said in the NT.
Paul himself was willing to debate, engage , and discourse with the convention of Idolaters on Mars Hill. To take a quote from Joe Biden ---"C'mon Man" !
*****
Well said Tonto! 👏 Cannot agree more!
Tonto's comment here reads as if Concerned Sister had wrote it.
ReplyDeleteSo, is COG ASS the only splinter to have a Christmas week end now?
ReplyDeleteNo mask for Xmas!!!
Why don’t the COGs have family weekends during Holy Day seasons? Because there’s NOT EXTRA TIME OFF WORK AND SCHOOL like during the winter holiday season. During Unleavened Bread you take the first Holy Day off work and the last and are at work/school the rest of the time. Having family weekends around Christmas and New Years is truly due to convenience with time off.
ReplyDeleteSharon not all jobs have shut downs during Christmas and New Years. Millions work during those days.
DeleteIt is a lazy excuse to say it's due to convenience.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteNice try Tonto but many consider it dodgy because the very same groups never have a organised get together during unleavened bread or any other holy day.
MY COMMENT: Dont the groups get together on those Holy Days and have services? Dont the groups convene FOT celebrations?
Dont they organize camps and other outings at different times ? Your statement has no validity.
>>>Note to ANON 1:23- I have no idea who "Concerned Sister" is.
Tonto my statement has complete validity because vast amounts of money are spent on WFW. They hire complete professional fairground eqipment for stalls and mini rides that are not hired in any other event.
ReplyDeleteYet proclaim near poverty when it comes to hiring for Tabernacles.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 5:31 PM said...“There is no link! It's all in your own warped mind.”
Some people's minds have become so warped that they cannot see the link. Their minds have become so warped that they do not want to see the link.
Unwarp your mind and see the link.
12:06pm You are the warped one. Tell me, if you wake up on Dec. 25th morning, are you keeping xmas?
ReplyDeleteThe cog getting together at a time when the whole world is on pause, no school, no work, does not mean they're keeping xmas you moron! Nor does it mean that "get together" is more important than the feasts of God!
"Sharon not all jobs have shut downs during Christmas and New Years. Millions work during those days.
ReplyDeleteIt is a lazy excuse to say it's due to convenience."
Wow. Just wow!
Ignorance on display there. Sharon did not say that everyone had xmas off. Warning, strawman alert, strawman alert. Totally twisting the subject.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:47 AM said...“You are the warped one. Tell me, if you wake up on Dec. 25th morning, are you keeping xmas?”
Okay, I will tell you.
If some warped moron wakes up in the morning on Dec. 25 at the Great Wolf Lodge, they ARE observing their Winter X-mass Weekend custom.