Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Monday, February 22, 2021

Dave Pack: The entire fate of mankind hangs in the balance if Israelite families aren’t fixed [by RCG members and ministers].

Yes, JC, it is true. 
I am the ROD of Isaiah 11:1 
and you are just the branch.

 

From an RCG source. Comments on Dave's sermon 286. 

There is so much to comment on here, but I will let the message stand by itself.



So after a roughly 19-day hiatus, Dave has had time to rethink and retool his prophecy series since Christ failed to show up at the last predicted date. Unfortunately, there isn’t a lot of new material in Part 286, as these “newly revealed truths” were largely already taught in 2018 and 2019. He is back to foretelling a physical Kingdom, led by himself and RCG members that will rule the world prior to the return of Christ and the Father, which then kicks off another 2 kingdoms down the road.

Since the picture is changing radically from a few weeks ago, he decided to start giving short messages every day for the next week to update the church on his new prophetic speculations. Dave has largely given up on providing reasons for why he gets his predictions wrong, (even though they are coming from God) and chooses to rely on the old trustworthy, “God needed to show us more.” However, in a move reminiscent of Ron Weinland, he declared that RCG members made it to the 1,335 and they are now counting down to additional end times events.

From Wikipedia:

In 2008, Weinland wrote that "the final countdown has begun, as the 1,335 days before the actual day Jesus Christ returns began on Tuesday, September 30, 2008."

Perhaps the most striking revelation from Part 286, is that in order to be “locked in,” one must believe, accept and embrace his latest teaching on the 1,335. Forget historic Christianity’s founding principle that one must believe in Christ to be saved, it would be better to just trust Dave’s newest revelation. So much for Acts 16:31!

A few highlights (usually a paraphrase, except for where quotes are used)

0:40 - “Those who waited to the Sabbath of 2 weeks ago, reached the 1,335 and that math for many reasons cannot be undone. Now just think of us as at “1,321.” In my excitement and exuberance, I didn’t see that it just said, “blessed is he that waits and comes to this date.” It didn’t mention the Kingdom of God, Christ, or God, or Salvation, but the assumption was [to be clear this was Dave’s assumption] that that’s what it was, since we were “waiting.” But the reality was there was more to learn and no one saw that. The “bucks stops here,” I didn’t see it, but now we understand it. So we are done waiting for the 1,335, we are at the 1321. April 3, the Last Day of Unleavened Bread isn’t gonna change it's not gonna move. So the question is how much longer do we wait [until the first kingdom starts].”

3:30 - “The 1,335 calculated for us the year of creation, it’s an amazing story. I can now tell you what no one else knows, I know the year of creation and the ministers know it and they are affirmed to secrecy.” [then jokes about stoning the ministers in the snow if they tell anyone].

9:00 - I want everyone to be absolutely clear. I am going to take various component parts, that are very different from what we learned before and bring them together...It’s been about 19 days since I spoke, I thought the kingdom would come 5 days after that, and well here we are 2 weeks after that, and we are nowhere close to learning what will happen next… We need to drive home “bite-sized” pieces that I will give you over the next few days. We will only go 90 minutes and I will stop mid-sentence if I need to and we will pick up tomorrow. [Dave went 106 minutes, in Part 286)

10:00 - There is no way the Kingdom is coming before Monday! But the ministers, if they all stood up and I asked them to a man, “Is the Bible clear which day the Kingdom of God is coming?,” they would all tell you, yes they know. That's “candy,” that’s “the desert,” at the end of these messages.

21:57 - Behold I will send you Elijah the Prophet, that’s the “Messenger” before the coming of the dreadful “Day of the Lord,” we know that’s the Last Day of Unleavened Bread, thats April 3rd, lets say it very plainly, the Father is coming on the “Day of the Lord,” so is Christ, They are both coming after the 7th head. All Israel is back before the Father and Christ.

24:00 - There is a kingdom of some reach and power, when 4 billion Israelites are resurrected and live on Earth. We will need to fix Israelite families! The entire fate of mankind hangs in the balance if Israelite families aren’t fixed [by RCG members and ministers].

27:30 - I am certain of these things now, I am going to speak every day for an hour to an hour and a half, except Sunday) so you can have a clear picture of things that are so similar, but so different.

37:40 - The “master of the house” is the Father, not Christ! This is irrefutable, there is not one soul outside this room who knows or thinks the master of the house is the Father!

1:03:00 - RCG now teaches you need to accept Dave’s teachings on the 1,335 to be “locked/saved.”

“If you embraced, and accepted, and you believe the 1335, you understand it, then you were "locked" [saved] two weeks ago. You may see some people leave, very few as, as you've heard in the sermons and all the messages. We're growing, I think faster than we have in about a decade and in every conceivable statistic we're doing wonderfully well, but you'll see it, an occasional foolish person will drop out. Pray for them, cause they're coming to a VERY BIG RODEO and everybody's going to get included. You'll see how this all develops. Those people obviously didn't believe the 1335. You couldn't have believed it and believe it. It was basic math, and with some science and understanding of the calendar, it's fairly basic. If they believed it, they're settled. If you see people leave, they're being ejected because whoever's here "last" is going "first." If people leave, they're being expelled by God, there could be more, they're going to be expelled because they're not going to go first if they didn't believe it. Now, I just thought I'd clarify that.

1:10:20 - An attack is leveled at everyone who has ever been at RCG and left. One could ask, if over 140 people were employed at HQ and left, are they the problem, or is RCG?

“And there was one era of God's church [Restored over the last 22 years] that had to work in this murderous, wicked environment. Where people among us would attack us, lie to us, lie about us, steal from us. We've had criminals, heretics, every vile person, every kind of ax grinder, heretic, opportunist, rebel you could ever imagine has been in this work over the last 22 years. Mr. Armstrong saw as many and worse, but it was a longer period of time, in a smaller church. We had to do the work in the Laodicean age. And we had to build this campus, with very few of us pulling really hard, selling all that we had. And God says, you honor those people because they lived in the rotten generation. The one I'm going to punish in the Day of the Lord, you put them at the head of the line. They're different.

 They came through almost their own fire before the fire. They're going first. That's the only way you can understand it. Since we're all going to receive the Kingdom at the same time, there's no other way to understand it. And having been in the ministry, for I'm going on almost 51 years now, I've watched the world change and I've watched God's people change. We're not doing the work in the age of brotherly love and the Philadelphian era. Again, people come lie to us, lie about us, sow division, come looking for jobs. God will sort it all out. "I wish them all well." (publically Dave will say this in sermons but privately, in conversations, to the ministry, etc… he viciously attacks these people.) Let them go. If they're still there and invited, they're not going first, but don't rule them out. Judge nothing before the Lord comes, I Corinthians 4:5. So I wanted you to understand once and for all, why we go first.”

1:39:57 - Dave claims he is the “Rod” of Isaiah 11:1 and that Christ is the “Branch.” Virtually every Bible commentary (Christian and Jewish) understands this to be Jesus Christ or the Messiah. However, Dave claims that verses 1-10 actually apply to him personally when the “first Kingdom” starts in the next few days/weeks.

It is quite obvious from any translation that Isaiah 11:1 refers to the same personage, not two different ones. As near as I can tell, if you claim to be a Christian, then taking one of Jesus Christ’s roles is blasphemy and something of a position one wouldn’t want to be in.
  • NASB - Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse, And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
  • NLT - Out of the stump of David’s family will grow a shoot—yes, a new Branch bearing fruit from the old root.
We could ask, when this year comes and goes with no return of Christ and no fulfillment of these days as predicted, will Christians who claim they follow the Bible do the right thing and leave the work of a false prophet?


11 comments:

  1. I can see two possible aspects of Dave's scheme. The first is to alienate everyone and leave him with an expense estate to maintain. He sells it, and the proceeds will hopefully see him through his last years.
    The other scenario is that Dave doesn't think his diminishing die-hards will sit through more regurgitation of the same material that kept them going in the early years, so he needs to make up new material to keep everyone interested. I can't see this attracting new members - the "common" teaching would even keep Bob et al's 5000 Africans from feigning interest.
    There is a third possible scenario, and that is he is either just plain nuts or stark raving mad.

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    Replies
    1. He's obviously in the grip of a very severe mental illness, probably bi-polar His daughter and her husband néed to see what they can do to get him into treatment asap before something really bad occurs.

      Delete

  2. 0:40 -- But the reality was there was more to learn and no one saw that.”


    Anyone who is still with klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies must have a lot more to learn and anyone can see that.

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  3. Prophet Tonto predicts the Judgement day date...

    (Foretold in the one hit wonder band, Zager and Evans song "In the year 2525")...

    In the year 7510
    If God's a-comin' he ought to make it by then
    Maybe he'll look around himself and say
    Guess it's time for the Judgement day

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  4. "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Deut. 18:22)

    To those who still are worried about the things this person says. The Bible explicitly tells you to not fear him.

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  5. So instead of a 3 hour indoctrination session, Dave is now going for the ‘every day indoctrination’ option.

    Wise move because more and more of the RCG members are turning their backs on him and he doesn’t want to give the ones still there the time to think about things.

    Common cult practice. And similar to what happens at the FTO: ‘rekindle the fire’. Stuff the members brains with nonsense, blasting out any original thoughts they might have.

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  6. For 13 long, stress-filled years I listened to the sermons of my Worldwide Church of God ministers proving, scripture by scripture, that the unique doctrines, teachings, and restrictions of that church were utterly and totally in force. Those "proof texts" proved everything.

    But never once was Deuteronomy 18:22 ever referred to.

    "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

    Why was that? Why was this scripture never, once, read or referred to in an Armstrong "Church of God" sermon?

    And even more significantly, why, in my own personal readings of the Bible did I not read or comprehend this clear scripture? I was deluded.

    In my college years, in the late '60s, I got and read "1975 In Prophecy." I believed what I read. The tribulation would hit three and an half years before that, then, Christ would return. The booklet had all the proof texts proving the matter.

    But, 1975 came and went. The firm prophecies by the Armstrong's never came to pass. Had I believed the Bible, I would have been able to confidently walk away from Armstrongism and live a real Biblical life, as I do now, following the teachings and grace of Jesus Christ, himself.

    So, for those still mired in Armstrong churches, who from time to time take a sneak view of what we "heretics" are posting on this message board, ponder how many Biblical proof texts were used to validate your minister's sermon last Saturday. If those are true and valid, how, then, is not Deuteronomy 18:22? That scripture invalidates all of the threatening and controlling teachings that Pack, Flurry, and all the others who, with failed prophecies, teach.

    "...thou shalt not be afraid of him."

    Leave. Worship with a church that teaches the entire Bible, particularly focused on the wonderful teachings of Jesus Christ, not failed prophecies or The Law.

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  7. Anon 6:57
    Yes, been there too. HWA seemed to be like Bill Clinton, no matter what trouble he got into, there was a way to come out of it smelling like a rose. On the other hand, Gerald Flurry is like Donald Trump, even when wrong he claims what he said is still right, and coming out smelling like a weasel. I don't know which CIC Dave Pack can be compared to, perhaps Nixon.

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  8. Those that follow him as closely as my housemate, should be afraid of him and where he is leading them. I don't see things ending well. I wouldn't want to be near him or letting him have any say in my life. He's destroyed enough of it as it is.

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  9. Many would suspect that Dave is suffering from verbal diarrhea, but I think it is clear that he is suffering the complete opposite.

    We need to pray for poop. Until that comes to fruition, Dave is going to continue to strain mightily to obtain a conclusion or any conclusion.

    We know you can do it Dave - get it all out, for it will make everything all better. Everyone will then know that you encompass and are every entity and being of the bible. All will finally understand how as you said; "nobody else could have been my mother's son", even when you have a brother. We all await as you said; "a worldwide announcement of just who I AM".

    And finally, we all await your coming kingdom before the Father's kingdom and Jesus Christ's kingdom. Thy kingdom come Dave or more accurately, thy poop come Dave. And if you think that it will be so great that a toilet could not handle it all (we know you believe that), then don't fret - the barnyard is right down the street and the animals won't judge you one way or another.

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  10. Comment made at 21:57 said: "...Behold I will send you Elijah the Prophet, that’s the “Messenger” before the coming of the dreadful “Day of the Lord,” we know that’s the Last Day of Unleavened Bread, thats April 3rd, lets say it very plainly, the Father is coming on the “Day of the Lord,” so is Christ, They are both coming after the 7th head. All Israel is back before the Father and Christ..."

    Why would both the Father and His Son sneak in like a thief in the night amongst so much darkness on some Day of the LORD?

    Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.

    Amos 5:20 [Shall] not the day of the LORD [be] darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

    1 Thess 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

    Oh, I agree both will come after that 7th head, which won't come into play until some time AFTER Satan has been loosed from the bottomless pit.

    For Dave: I guess you think God lied and the Father and His Son will come so much earlier than His Plan of Salvation already calls for! I thought God could not lie, but someone is lying here, and I believe it is Dave, who follows another father (John 8:44).

    So, will the Father and His Son really return very soon, as Dave (and Kubic, Weston, Winnail, Franks, Thiel, Weinland, Flurry, etc. also believe) again lies to us about, or will they both come sometime to this earth AFTER Dave's Mickey Mouse Millennium of 1,000 years?

    Time will tell...

    John

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