Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Wednesday, February 1, 2023

Dave Pack: We are in Serious Dilemma! All of our literature is wrong!

 


UPDATE: On March 9, 2021, I posted this about Dave's ongoing lies and how almost all of RCG's literature was then obsolete. Here we are in February 2023 and the lies continue unabated. Jesus still has not returned. Dave's material is still outdated. No great secret of God has ever been revealed. Every time Dave opens his mouth he discredits himself, invalidating any previous words of wisdom.



We are in a Serious Dilemma!

From an RCG source:

This is perhaps one of the more shocking quotes I have seen in the series yet. I would ask that the Website team post this on the homepage somewhere just so new members understand that nothing they read is actually what the church teaches. This is a long quote but stay with me!


All the RCG material on the “Gospel” is wrong in Dave’s eyes. (This was discussed for years while the series was going on, some small changes were made, but now it’s obvious to church members). In effect, God needs to use material filled with lies and inaccurate information to get people into His TRUE CHURCH. 


An important question for the members of RCG, “Does an all-powerful “God of Truth,” need to use lies and deception to get people into His organization or True Church?” If so, then where is the Biblical precedent for this? Especially, when Christ is “the Way, the Truth, the Life”? 


At the judgment seat, could you imagine God or Christ condemning people for deceiving others, when they themselves actually deceived people to get them into the church?


Dave states at the end of 294:


“Finally let's imagine that the kingdom of God did not come this year. Let's imagine it. This church is in a serious dilemma, and I want you to think about it. And I ran it by a half dozen ministers, and here are our options, because all of our literature currently teaches that the kingdom of God is built the way my Baptist father-in-law believes, Christ comes and builds the kingdom. All of our literature is written that way. Now here's option "Number One," Ready? Let our literature say that and it's FALSE! I've written, I don't know probably a million words about the gospel. I've got to alter those. When would I do it? We can't let it go out. It's not true! So that's option number one would just let it stay there out of the question. 


Option "Number Two," withdraw all of our literature on the subject of the gospel. The Awesome Potential of Man, What's the Kingdom. What's the True Gospel, How World Peace Will Come. And all the booklets that I wrote years ago that had been so productive. Hundreds of millions of our pieces of literature have gone out, just withdraw them and never talk about the Gospel again? Well, that's a problem because we have an open door in front of us and nobody can shut it! So we wouldn't be expected to do that. So neither of those options are realistic. Here's the third one. God says he wants to come as a "thief", as a "snare." He does not want the world to know it. He wants a little group to know it. So then what do I do? Rewrite the literature and tell the world what it appears. God does not want them to know? That's option "Number three," that doesn't sound like a very good option, but we'd have to do something, unless God revealed this extraordinary mystery that has been this series right before he intended to solve the problem Himself. Because here they are, again, leave the literature that's up--it's wrong! It was "a present truth." Mr. Armstrong taught things that were wrong and he taught all the other doctrines of God correctly. We believed them. We held to them, but I no longer could. What would our ministers counsel people who were reading booklets that are wrong? "Well, this was actually wrong, but we need to understand it should say this." Well, they'd say, if I were a prospective member, like I was 55 years ago, I'd said, "Well, why hasn't it changed?" Or the alternative? Remember, second alternative? Just cancel all that literature and never talk about the kingdom of God. Well again, no one could consider that a viable option.


And the third one is start rewriting it. Now that would even take a while. And then we would do, because the Work is booming. Make no mistake. We are booming right now! I've never seen anything like it! And we're poised to do big stuff. So what would we do just sit on that we're wonderfully positioned to explode! But then we would be telling people what God doesn't want known. So, there was no box on that list where you could check "none of the above." You got to go one of the three ways. Now I never mentioned that as a metric because I never thought of it as a metric until I came to understand the "mystery of God" is that the kingdom of God arrives in a totally different way than anybody we or anybody else ever thought.


But it's a "fact" and you've heard the proof. So the only solution it seems to me is that the kingdom has to come, or I got to choose one of those three things because I'm not going to sit back. Our "reserves are," I mean, you just can't believe how well we're doing. We never done this well! We're 22 years now and I mean, we're not going to go build more buildings. There's no time for that. What would we do? We have a wonderful staff. We don't have to spend time hiring more staff. We're well positioned. We're poised, we're oiled. We could go out and do a much bigger work, but the problem is we would be disclosing a secret God does not want it out. I don't know how I could do that in good conscience. So, God speed the day! It looks like our weight is very short for one more reason. And the "Mystery of God" has gone away in a greater way. For one more reason. Good night.


 


28 comments:

  1. TRANSLATION: "I screwed up, so the only option is for Christ to return soon, so I'm not held accountable for my screwup."

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  2. “Dave Pack: We are in Serious Dilemma! All of our literature is wrong!”


    That is what happens when you Bait & Switch & Switch & Switch....

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  3. “Dave Pack: We are in Serious Dilemma! All of our literature is wrong!”


    When everything the Trouble Maker made up and taught leads to total disaster, the Trouble Maker talks about “we” and “our.”

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  4. "poised to do big stuff"!?! Geez, how many times have we heard that before?

    Oh wait, I see some new special big trees being delivered... that must be it.

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  5. Nothing new. Just more grandiose delusions.

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  6. Maybe Dave can just glue the pages of his old literature together (so they cant be opened) on the sections that are in "error"! LOL!

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    Replies
    1. Really do appreciate your brief comments, they are the soul of wit. No long preaching to the choir, we already know the lunacy.

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  7. Near wars end, the Nazis turned on their own people because they didn't deliver on their fantasy of world conquest. It's stands to reason that failing splinters like Dave's, will follow suit and revert to crown stealing.

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  8. Looks to me like Davie is boxed into a corner, and the only way out is for a John the Baptist type within his ranks to proclaim that David is indeed the Christ and that the Kingdom has arrived with David Christ.

    The other choice, with all of Davie's talk about surviving fire, is far more ominous and brings out the Waco/Jonestown overtones.

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  9. I'm not sure why Dave has ever thought this type of reasoning is worth talking about. He makes it look like he's backed himself into a corner, thinking he can force God's hand. It doesn't work that way, Dave. You'll have egg on your face once again and God will not come to your rescue. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing and a viper. No one wants to touch your literature because they know it will all be different a week from now. At best it gets watered down and says nothing.

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  10. So now he will start his next task: writing his own bible. So far all he did was write weird booklets with even weirder theories. He will now claim that God appointed him the official writer of ........ The New And Only True Bible of God.

    And of course Dave will need money for that. LOTS of money boys and girls. Send it to Dave!

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  11. All of our literature is wrong!

    And Bob Thiel left LCG because some of their literature was wrong. And for other reasons.

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  12. I don't see why Dave has a problem with his past lit being now wrong. It wasn't right to begin with so no loss there. I am pretty sure if he puts out his "Truth" about it being God the Father returning before Jesus, demand for that will keep his printing costs minimal.

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  13. Booming? Pack's work is booming right now? Laughable delusion.

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  14. his "Truth" about it being God the Father returning before Jesus,

    Dennis, does this mean Dave will have to follow the Jehovah's Witness / SDA ideas about an invisible/hidden return of God before David Christ can be proclaimed? Or does this new teaching hint that Dave has privately promoted himself from Christ to Father?

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  15. Sometimes it works to analyze the behavior of a Splinter Group by treating it as an economic organization rather than a church. This is because, in a sense, the Splinter Groups are human entrepreneurial efforts - their product just happens to be religion.

    The basic challenge to the Splinters is competition. It is a free market. There are no barriers to entry into the marketplace. A new Splinter could rev up tomorrow and nobody could bar it from competing for members. So if all the Splinters offered the same product, there would be little movement of congregants between Splinters and, hence, wealth would not be concentrated.

    So what is the likely economic solution? A probable solution is product differentiation. We might be seeing this economic phenomenon here. You offer a different product, the more melodramatic the difference the better, in order to attract membership and accumulate wealth. You enter the marketplace and announce to the participants that you have a better religious product. The product meets people's needs better. The problem is that this can be very addictive. You try it and it works. The positive feedback makes you want to do it over and over again to accumulate more wealth. This means you get further and further away from pure Armstrongism and move deeper and deeper into more lurid theological novelty. This behavior will be sustained because it is rewarded. The only thing that can interdict this algorithm is the organization hitting some threshold where the congregants will accept no further change. Then the organization loses membership and melts down.

    So to optimize wealth accumulation the organization must always operate right on the cusp of incredulity. Right at the point where congregants are full of excitement by the growing differentiation but just short of having everyone walk out because their ability to believe is overburdened. And then you play this process as if it were a musical instrument.

    HWA did not deal with this kind of pressure. The WCG did not really have to defend against comparable competitors back in the day. The WCG did not compete with other apocalyptic Millerite groups but with Christian groups from which it was already dramatically differentiated. So the WCG religious product tended to be very stable and membership growth resulted from other factors. But in Splinterdom it is feeding time 24 hours a day. Splinterdom cannibalizes itself. HWA would be repulsed by this model. He spoke ardently against competition and labelled it a corrupting influence for mankind. It is troubling that vile competition has Splinterdom in its ruinous grip. It makes you wonder what ultimate outcome might result from this natural selection.

    Just saying . . .

    ******* Click on icon for Disclaimer

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  16. Booming?

    No, it's mooBing, the imagined sound of implosion!

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  17. Australia Here

    This Man is a Fool! He has Demonic possessions! Pack is Complete Liar! His Mouth is full of Devils. We should have a lawsuit to recover our fund's? This need's to stop!

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  18. RE ::March 11, 2021 at 2:32 PM ,

    I have heard that it's currently being discussed. I will join you and others with the filing a lawsuit against Pack for Psychological abuse.

    Jesus will return to place Pack in the Lake of Fire.

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  19. The Packster will just need to make a name change. He will need to shut down his Restored church of (false) god and start a new one: The Going Forth church of (false) god. then he rewrites all his literature under that new name.
    I shouldn't give him ideas.

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  20. The best way out for Pack is to just completely disappear like a "witness protection person" with the proclamation before hand that ..."He alone was qualified to meet Jesus and to be transfigured into spirit".

    Of course with a large sum of money put into cryptocurrency, from drained church accounts and mortgaged property.

    He would become a sort of DB Cooper, and the documentaries on him would last for decades! I can see it now on the History Channel, .... "The Search For Dave Pack"!

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  21. Herbert W. Armstrong taught that preaching the gospel (meaning “good news”) of the coming kingdom of God was the real purpose of the church.

    That is why the Satan-sent, Satan-directed, demon-possessed, lying, thieving, false prophets like David C. Pack just have to pervert the gospel in the craziest ways anyone has ever heard of.

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  22. Wow. If after 50 long, long years in "ministry" Dave has still not figured out what the actual Gospel is, nothing matters. If you have the wrong gospel, which he does, the rest is misunderstandings, based on the wrong foundation.

    I could write a "booklet", about the Gospel on one page. Not too much time or cost there. If only Dave knew the actual secret to unlocking the Bible (if such a thing exists, which it does not), is all explained in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Dave got stuck way back when with HWA on preaching the gospel of the kingdom. That has skewed his understanding ever since. No wonder Jesus warned us about another gospel and another Jesus.

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  23. Dave has used foul means to mentally chain his members to his church.

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  24. A guitar player, armed with his trusty Les Paul or Strat, and a good 50 to 100 Watt amplifier can eventually find his tone, the unique sound which identifies him, compliments his style, and is pleasing enough to draw crowds. In an appropriate analogy, if Dave's literature were his guitar, and his sermons his amplifier (pretty much the way HWA used those as his instruments), Dave's tone would drive most people from the building. In fact, it would even make the roof rats commit suicide like their cousins, the lemmings.

    HWA found his tone. It drew crowds, and even caused people to drop their spare change into his guitar case. Hell, they sponsored his concerts! Neither Dave, not any other of the aspiring leaders of Armstrongism has ever found their tone. The size of their crowds is the proof of this. HWA filled arenas. These other guys find their onesie-twosies, but really never even draw a crowd the size of Saturday morning traffic offenders school!

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  25. 8.05 am
    It makes no sense that the gospel is the coming kingdom of God. Christ said "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." If the kingdom of heaven is only a government, what difference would repenting make to Christ's generation? The gospel must be referring to salvation. Now that's worth repenting for.

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  26. We ought to remember that per HWA, the gospel is that Jesus Christ will soon return to set up Armstrongism as the government of God for the millennium and eternity. HWA forgot the other half of the gospel, the pesky part that Jesus saves, so guess everyone is going to have to qualify for all eternity.

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