From Gerald Weston:
He later wrote a booklet titled 1975 in Prophecy. It was never intended to set that year as the date of Christ’s return, but instead was highlighting a significant milestone in the future as many others have done; for example, George Orwell’s 1984, published in 1949, and William and Paul Paddock’s Famine 1975! America’s Decision: Who Will Survive?, written in 1967. Today we might highlight a future year such as 2050, not intending to imply that 2050 is a specific year during which we expect something earth-shattering to happen. But in the course of time, 1975 in Prophecy took on a life of its own. Some Ambassador College faculty began calculating, using 19-year time cycles, that the work of the Church could end in 1972 with the three-and-a-half-year period mentioned in Revelation taking us to 1975.
How easily he glosses over the fact that Rod Meredith was the champion of the 1975 lie.
It was taught to us in the Dayton area as FACT and we even had a sermon once where the minister outlined on a rolling blackboard on the stage and drew a chart right down to the month that we would flee. My mother faithfully copied this crap down and put it inside the kitchen cupboard where she crossed off the days till we were supposed to flee to Petra. This came straight from Pasadena. The fact that Weston denies that anyone thought this was a fact is a blatant falsehood.
I do not know when Mr. Armstrong began to consider that 1975 could be the year, but I do know firsthand that, as late as 1969, on the occasion of one of the Senior Dinners that he hosted in his home, he thought it possible for things to wrap up by then. At the same time, however, he strongly warned the Church not to set dates. And Dr. Meredith was already saying as early as 1968 that “the end of the Work in 1972” and “the return of Christ in 1975” were dates that would come and go without those expected events.
When it was clear that 1972 was not the end of the Work, people looked for other dates and some concluded that the error was in subtracting the seven years of Nebuchadnezzar’s insanity from the 2,520 years from the fall of Babylon in 539 BC. This recalculation brought us to the year 1979 for the end of the Work, with Christ returning in 1982. That was nearly 40 years ago—obviously, speculators were wrong again.
There has never been a Church of God prophet that was part of the Armstrongite dispensation that has ever told the truth. Not one single one and that includes Bob Thiel, Rod Meredith, Ron Weinland, Dave Pack, and Gerald Flurry.
Liars all.
Perhaps we can be forgiven such errors, as we are in the company of the Apostle Paul, who wrote, “Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). This certainly applies to some people, perhaps many of us, but Paul wrote to a contemporary audience, while God inspired it for all times. Paul did not set any specific dates as far as we know, yet it may seem in his epistles that he thought they were living very near to the end of the age—certainly not 2,000 years away from it!
It is natural to want to know how long we have left to wait, and it is natural to hope that Christ’s return will be within our own personal lifetime. This natural tendency to speculate must be tempered by mature thinking whereby we learn from the past. It would seem that, given the history of the last 100 years, we should have learned not to attempt specific predictions. Dr. Meredith realized this, refusing to be specific, but when pressed for some indication he would say that he thought it would be seven to 17 years—and he repeated that for a decade or more, as a moving target.
This is not a criticism of Paul, Mr. Armstrong, or Dr. Meredith, but it should be a lesson for all of us. Sadly, some never learn, and they go beyond simple speculation and count on specific dates. When one date fails to bring Christ’s return, they set another—then another, then another. And sometimes they become discouraged and leave the faith. While it is fun to speculate, the problem is that some people begin making important decisions based on their speculations: not furthering their education, not getting their teeth fixed, rushing into a poorly matched marriage, etc.
Oh, how they want to ignore this Bible quote:
Deuteronomy 18:22
If a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.
Purge them from the church! Kick them to the gutter where they belong.
The False Prophet
13 “If a prophet or someone who has dreams arises among you and proclaims a sign or wonder to you, 2 and that sign or wonder he has promised you comes about, but he says, ‘Let us follow other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us worship them,’ 3 do not listen to that prophet’s words or to that dreamer. For the Lord your God is testing you to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul. 4 You must follow the Lord your God and fear Him. You must keep His commands and listen to His voice; you must worship Him and remain faithful[a] to Him. 5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he has urged rebellion against the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the place of slavery, to turn you from the way the Lord your God has commanded you to walk. You must purge the evil from you.
Put to death. Let's see how zealous these COG members are with the word of God. The Great God said these false prophets must be put to death. Those who have eyes that see and ears that listen, anyone?
ReplyDeleteJer 22:14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
ReplyDeleteSounds like every COG pastor from Flurry, to Pack, to Thiel, to (put your pastor's name here). But COG members willfully disobey and will not listen ir heed God's word. Sad state of COG land.
Reading WCG lit from age 14 to showing up at AC in '68, I took the 1975 Booklet as a take off on Orwell's 1984. I didn't take it literally and was surprised at AC when I heard some did. I feel the booklet was written not as RCM, who was always Christ is coming soon oriented did or promoted. He loved to speculate and fell into that as his thing.
ReplyDeleteI think standing in 1969 watching them build the Auditorium, tipped me off, should I have taken the booklet literally, that "these folk aren't serious about any Jesus returning anytime soon." :)
I was just getting used to no Xmas or Easter and the Holydays then so the Second Coming was not on the front burner.
Would be interested if anyone has any articles which shows that WCG taught it as fact...
ReplyDeleteClimbing the Hill, and Falling Off
ReplyDeleteDennis said:
Reading WCG lit from age 14 to showing up at AC in '68, I took the 1975 Booklet as a take off on Orwell's 1984. I didn't take it literally and was surprised at AC when I heard some did. I feel the booklet was written not as RCM, who was always Christ is coming soon oriented did or promoted. He loved to speculate and fell into that as his thing.
Response: I too, first read 1975, in 1956, at age 14/15. Showing up at AC in late 1959. And, like you, did not take it as having to all end by 1975. As I remember, it was popular to use that year in mags like Popular Mechanics, etc. You know, to talk about flying cars, private helicopters, etc. And, even HWA mentioned things like that.
If one re-reads the booklet before jumping off the cliff, one might be surprised at things mentioned we are now experiencing. Read page 4, for example. Our front page news in stereo.
Dennis said:
I think standing in 1969 watching them build the Auditorium, tipped me off, should I have taken the booklet literally, that "these folk aren't serious about any Jesus returning anytime soon." :)
Response: You, at that moment, were standing on the downside of the WCG mountain, by 4/5 years from the top peak growth.On a graph starting at the beginning year of the RCG/WCG and rising from there to 1964, and falling from there, you were 5 yrs into the destruction of AC and WCG. Prior to 1964 it was a different story. Even Marion McNair mentions that year.
Also, I questioned the need of the auditorium. However, it had nothing to do with the idea they didn’t believe Messiah was coming. It was because of the verse saying to continue in “so doing” even up to the end.
Dennis said:
I was just getting used to no Xmas or Easter and the Holydays then so the Second Coming was not on the front burner.
Response: Well, we all had to start somewhere.;)
I recall reading HWA's:
ReplyDelete"I don't set dates, but consider evidence A that points to 1975.
I don't set dates, but consider evidence B that points to 1975.
I don't set dates, but consider evidence C that points to 1975.
I don't set dates, but consider evidence D that points to 1975."
HWA used his used-car-salesman marketing skills to convince members that Christ was returning in 1975 while retaining legal deniability.
HWA lied through his teeth. I suspect he spent the next two years travelling full time out of fear of his victims.
Btw, I've had some members tell me that they lost the will to live as the date approached. Herb lived in the lap of luxury during this same period.
HWA on the first Sabbath of 1980 had everyone in Southern California come to Pasadena for a massive attendance.
ReplyDeleteOn that day he said (very close to this) " Brethren, this will be the decade that Christ will return, and if not, then definitely and surely in the 1990s"
HWA was wrong, along with dozens of other predictions that he made throughout his ministry.
Movements of all types, religious or political, often need some type of "immediacy" to them, in order to get people to sacrifice for the cause, and to create a following. "End of the World", and other fear mongering works great for that. Thus you get the climate change is going to kill everyone, or Covid, or peak oil, or the Aids crisis scare etc, etc.
It is all used to create structures of power and money.
When the Lord Jesus Christ returns, just make sure that you are loving God and loving man. Beyond that, it is humming to know that you have very little control or influence in the universe.
It wasn't an allegory, the Fatman really believed it!
ReplyDeleteLook at his wording: "...and this before the push-button year science is predicting."
Even fellow Dumbass Millerites, the JWs, were inspired to follow the Fatman on this!
Because the church of God the Eternal is loosing members our minister Jon Brisby is getting heavy handed with the members. He is afraid of loosing control over the people . In his group you are NOT allowed to be responsible for your own salvation.
ReplyDeleteSetting dates just isn't worth the loss of credibility.
ReplyDeleteAt best, a "dateless timeline" that lists a sequence of events. And not like Dave Pack's hundreds of sermons that went into minute detail - then completely scuttled for his "Jesus is coming on ....".
HWA and his "1975 but I only mean it if it comes true". "I don't mean it, but A -> 1975".
After the Six Day War, in the next PT, HWA wrote that "the Jews have only a few short years to build the Temple" which implied 1972. 1972 + 3 1/2 years Tribulation = 1975.
And Bob Thiel claimed HWA never said a Temple would be built - and quoted HWA, omitting his sentence about the Jews having to build it!
HWA on the first Sabbath of 1980 had everyone in Southern California come to Pasadena for a massive attendance.
ReplyDelete-----------------------------------------------
Tonto: very interesting. On the first sabbath of 1980, Jan 5, I was put out of WCG for writing earlier Herb was not Christ's apostle.
Weston's explanation of HWA's 1975 in Prophecy booklet might be more believable if HWA hadn't already had a track record by then of making predictions and setting dates, which can be traced all the way back to early editions of the Plain Truth in the 1930s. For instance, the June 1934 edition of the Plain Truth had a chart in it where HWA labeled 1936 as the "end of the age." When that didn't happen, he simply kicked the can down the road a bit and made other predictions, and set other dates, much like Pack, Flurry, and others do today. For example, in the February 1938 Plain Truth, he declared Mussolini the "Beast" of Revelation, and in January of 1939 he further promoted this idea, saying that "MUSSOLINI UNDOUBTEDLY IS THE "BEAST" and "MUSSOLINI WILL FIGHT CHRIST!"
ReplyDeleteWeston also ignores the fact that HWA also promoted and taught the idea of 19 year time cycles, and made his own claims based on those time cycles. For example, in Chapter 24 of his Autobiography, he has this to say,
"God set the earth, sun, and moon in their orbits to mark off divisions of time on the
earth. One revolution of the earth is a day. One revolution of the moon around the earth is a lunar month (according to God’s sacred calendar). One revolution of the earth around the sun is a solar year. But the earth, the sun, and the moon come into almost exact conjunction only once in 19 years. Thus 19 years mark off one complete time-cycle!"
He went on to use this statement to promote the idea that God timed his entry into the ministry based on the number of time cycles that had occurred since Pentecost of 31AD.
It is both a double standard and rank hypocrisy to criticize the "speculations" of others, making the statement that "some never learn" while glossing over and excusing the same behavior in the very leaders you hold up as bastions of "truth" such as HWA and Meredith.
It would be totally refreshing if just one of these guys was able to admit that HWA engaged in this behavior and was WRONG, as did Rod Meredith and others, and that we need to learn from the false claims and sins of our predecessors so we don't fall prey to repeating their mistakes.
It is contradictory to claim out of one side of your mouth, as HWA did, that you were not called to "be a prophet" while also writing articles and booklets predicting specific events to be fulfilled by specific people, using titles such as "1975 in Prophecy" and also claiming that you are the fulfillment of an end time "voice crying out in the wilderness" as prophesied in Malachi 3:1.
"John the Baptist was a voice crying out in the physical wilderness of the Jordan River area, preparing for the human physical Jesus' first coming to a material temple at Jerusalem, to a physical Judah. But that was a type, or forerunner of a voice "lifted up" (greatly amplified by modern printing, radio and TV), crying out in the midst of today's spiritual wilderness of religious confusion, announcing the imminency of Christ's SECOND coming as the spiritually GLORIFIED Christ, to His spiritual temple (the Church resurrected to spirit immortality)." Plain Truth Magazine, January 1980
If you claim you aren't a "prophet" that doesn't excuse you if you then go on to make false predictions, or engage in the same behavior that defines a false prophet.
Concerned Sister
The date setting, and the abundant evidence of its ongoing denial, backpedaling, and rewrite is exactly why God would have to use a completely new and different group as His end time witness. Armstrongism has burned itself as a credible witness, and current members are just kidding themselves if they think otherwise. The credibility of other Christian groups has also fallen apart.
ReplyDeleteIf you're just pulling into town from the feast, looking forward to a sabbath in your home town, and thinking to yourself "See? We have the truth about God's test commandment, the sabbath, so God will reveal His plans to us!", then you better wonder about the effectiveness of the sabbath as a signifier of God's True Church, because Armstrongism has a 100% failure rate in end time prophecy, dating way back to the WW-II era when HWA was preaching that the war would culminate in Armageddon, Hitler and Mussolini were the Beast, and Pope Pius was the AntiChrist. And, this was before Israel was even reborn as a nation, which was very necessary for the prophecies in Revelation to come to pass. For years, he denied that Hitler's body was Hitler, and preached that he was alive in South America, and would arise to complete the job. Sounds soooo much like a recent president, doesn't he? False leaders are always detached from reality!
To Concerned Sister and Anonymous (2:20):
ReplyDeleteBravissimo!!
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
Someone, on some blog once wrote that his minister had an explanation for why HWA's date was wrong: "God had to change the date because Mr Armstrong worked it out!"
ReplyDeleteGod set a date, and because HWA discovered what the date was, the date had to be changed. So, one may conclude, no one can correctly predict the date, as that means the date must be changed! So why bother even trying? That will save a lot of wasted time!
Anonymous @ October 1, 2021 at 9:42 AM,
ReplyDeletePray, tell how does Jon Brisby not allow us to be responsible for our own salvation?
From what I hear in his sermons, he lays down the truth undiluted and it is up to us to follow up with no interference from him as was done in the past.
Of course, if you go round sowing discord among the brethren after being told not to do so repeatedly, then it is a different matter. Peace and harmony comes before individual freedom in the church.
Church of God, Eternal maintains the original Radio Church of God teaching minus the emphasis on prophecies and abusive administration of the past.
The emphasis is on one's responsibility in living up to what God expects of us with the truth He gave us. It is very unlike the approach of RCG, LCG, PCG, CCOG, UCG and some other self proclaimed individuals with their prophetic messages.
If we are objective, COGTE is truly a faithful remnant of the Church of God, still keeping the faith once delivered.
Where did these comments from Weston come from?
ReplyDeleteIt seems odd for a COG leader to presently address, albeit with deception, one of Herbie's failures.
If this is a recent writing of Weston, was there an event that prompted him to write about 1975 In Prophecy - or was this an unforced error?
The usual tactic is to ignore the many failed prophesies of Herbie.
Weston wrote:
"He later wrote a booklet titled 1975 in Prophecy. It was never intended to set that year as the date of Christ’s return ..."
That's a blatant denial of what the title plainly proclaims.
The title is just a date plus two words - 1975 is clearly a year and there's no mistaking the meaning of either the words "in" or "Prophecy".
Herbie intended the title, which aptly described Herbie's content of the booklet.
Any LCG member who does not have a serious problem with Weston's lie about Herbie not setting dates is someone who does not care about truth or the commandment forbidding the bearing of false witness.
Herbie set several specific year dates - also, there is the repeated use of time frames - that are in fact setting dates.
Herbie and Spanky Meredith prolifically preached about time frames, such as in 15 years, or the next five to ten years - the end will come.
The end date could be factually calculated using the date that they preached their time frame as the starting date and counting it out to the very end of their time frame.
Trying to re-brand Herbie as not being a prophet is a ridiculous lie.
It's certainly clear that Herbie claimed that it was God who opened his eyes to the "prophecies" he preached and he preached these "prophecies" a lot - that makes him a prophet.
The huge volume of documents, from the 1930s trough the 1980s, that came directly from Herbie, are a testimony of Herbie preaching prophesies that failed - making him a false prophet.
Since Weston felt the need to deceptively address 1975 in Prophesy, will he also go back and address all the other dates set by Herbie and Meredith?
Prior to 1972, a member or an AC student who did not believe in HWA's timeline would have been considered to be a heretic, an odd ball, a Laodicean, or someone who just didn't get it. When members purchased a car, it was not uncommon for them to tell others that it would probably be their last car. If they had a long term debt, they would note that they'd probably never have to pay it off. People who had drivers licenses that expired after 1972 were glad because renewal couldn't be denied based on not having the mark of the beast. And, there were many other similar end-times based statements being made in conversations amongst brethren. There were also missed college educations, ill-advised marriages, general practice of living paycheck to paycheck and not building up savings so that more money could be sent to PO Box 111, and a complete mental block to any physical life beyond 1975.
ReplyDeleteWe had no idea at that time that our attitudes and world view were so ridiculous, because we trusted HWA. Diehard followers continued to trust him even after it was known that he had been wrong. Had everybody been thinking logically, the church would have disbanded sometime between 1972 and 1975. Yet, we still have people waiting and continuing to be exploited nearly 50 years later.
The fact that so many of HWA's early crazy predictions survived to bear witness to his false prophethood is intriguing.
ReplyDeleteHe had more control and ability to destroy early sermons, letters, and Plain Truth articles than he would have had in 1975.
The reason why he did not destroy these earlier failed prophesies must be a tribute to his megalomania.
There's nothing uglier than vanity; and HWA's vanity certainly exposed his rottenness.
Fortunately for those who have eyes to see, we can observe several decades of failed predictions and a long, hideous record of a con man.
Those remaining in COGlets hate the light and refuse to look into the truth about HWA.
Hey Anonymous of October 1, 2021 at 11:55 PM: I don't know who John Brisby is but I bet you can prove him to be a fraud by pulling out your Bible to see if he really dishes the "faith once delivered".
ReplyDeleteJust open to Romans and go through the books through Hebrews.
If Brisby does not discuss Savior Jesus as often and in the same terms as these books do, Brisby is proven to be a fraud.
If, Brisby does not speak about Grace, Justification, Salvation and Redemption in Jesus alone, as often as done in these books in the Bible, and in the same terms, Brisby is not teaching the faith first delivered to Christians.
If Brisby is teaching Armstrongism, in the snapshot moment you prefer, within the changing views of Armstongism (while Herbie was alive) - then he is not teaching New Testament/Covenant Christianity.
I’ll type my comment as I recall it again as it may have gotten lost in the cyber ether…
ReplyDelete6:44
Check out https://exitsupportnetwork.com/did-herbert-armstrong-set-dates/
9:20
I thought HWA copied the JWs re 1975 rather than the other way around.
Re Orwell’s “1984” v HWA’s “1975” the only similarity is they had dates in their title. The former, however, was published as fiction whereas the latter was published as prescient fact. Ironically it’s the former that’s been prescient and is being used as the guidebook in this global pandemic by TPTB.