Once more Doug Winnail repeats himself and claims that LCG is some kind of watchman. How can that be when Bob Thiel and Dave Pack claim to be the watchman? So do Gerald Flurry and Ronnie Weinland.
Why is it that so many COG's consider themselves to be the "Watchman"? They've been "watching" and predicting for close to 80 years now and nothing they have proclaimed has come to pass. What we do get to watch is the rapid demise of the Church of God movement as it splinters and splinters into hundreds and hundreds of personality cults built around vain narcissistic men who lie through their teeth and cause immense spiritual and physical harm to their members.
Winnail quotes Hosea 8:7, 14 and immediately bitch claps the entire COG movement:
For they sow the wind,
and they shall reap the whirlwind.
The standing grain has no heads,
it shall yield no meal;
Israel has forgotten his Maker,
and built palaces;
They sow a disjointed message ignoring Christ. Their messages have yielded no harvest. While building their campuses and headquarters they continue to ignore Christ while bowing down to the altar of Moses. Winnail cannot even mention that Christians rest in the assurance of Jesus no matter what may happen in the world around them. They don't live in fear or need to look at Old Testament prophets and sages as saving them from anything. They cannot and never will.
The church does not need another Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Elisha, pastor general, chief overseer, apostle, or prophet in their midst. All of the ones who have claimed these names and continue to call themselves these names have been and still are liars who cannot and will not preach Christ resurrected.
The Church as a Watchman: Down through history God has used His servants to warn His people and the world of coming events—for their own good. Moses warned the Israelites that if they disobeyed God and despised His laws and statutes, they would be punished (Leviticus 26:15). Isaiah was told to “Cry aloud” and tell God’s people that their sins will bring serious consequences (Isaiah 58:1). Jeremiah warned the Israelites, “you have forsaken the LORD your God” and “your own wickedness will correct you” (Jeremiah 2:17–19). Hosea’s message was, “They sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind... Israel has forgotten his Maker” (Hosea 8:7, 14). Ezekiel was given a prophetic commission to be watchman to the house of Israel and that he would be held accountable for delivering that warning. In Ezekiel’s day, the house of Israel had already gone into captivity—which means that same message must be delivered to modern Israelite nations today. Let’s pray that God will open doors to make that possible and that we will stay focused on the mission to be a watchman to modern Israelites and the world.
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
For some reason, as I was reading this, the Beatles "Nowhere Man" was playing in my head. All of these so-called leaders of Armstrongism are meaningless nowhere men. I can't imagine the people who actually allow them to have authority over them and over their lives.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, a fundamental confusion emerges over what the Gospel is. There is, just as the Armstrongist brother states, a theme of warning Israel in the OT. The OT prophets are about punishment followed by blessing later - all directed toward theocratic Israel. Undeniable.
ReplyDeleteBut that "watchman" theme does not have much of a place in the NT. Some will cite Matthew 24:14 but they have to interpret the daylights out of it to get it to be a Millerite end-of-age message. Jesus just said that one of the developments on the way to the Eschaton is that the Gospel would become a global message. And this simple statement has been burdened with a heavy weight of Millerite apocalypticism by Armstrongists.
So, there is a loss here. This Splinterist preacher quotes Leviticus, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Hosea to find his charter. Does the NT contain no message? Is there something lurking in the pages of the NT that goes way beyond the watchman theme of the OT? A major moment in the message that makes predictive prophecy a minor moment by comparison? A blazing story arc against the subordinate background of forecasted geopolitics? Maybe something about Jesus and salvation and love?
Sorry to repeat this all again. It never goes away - the perturbing and conspicuous contrast between apocalyptic Millerism and Christianity.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
This becomes interesting in light of one of the Armstrongites recently reminding us of HWA's theory that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testsment.
ReplyDeleteArmstrongism was always a pick and choose religion. They pick from the various covenants between God and mankind, or God and the Israelites, or God and the Israelites and Gentile Christians (spiritual Israelites) to determine which one is the preeminent one. Then they pick and choose the parts of that covenant which are supposedly still in force over us today. They pick from amongst theophanies to determine which personality was most significant, and should act as the guide post for those who want to obey God today. It seems odd, because somehow it never occurs to them to view these historic occurrences as a progression, and to accept the latest as the most up to date and relevant to our contemporary existence. They literally take apart the New Covenant, as outlined in the Sermon on the Mount, the two great commandments of the Lord, and the Beatitudes, and they subject it to a filtration/verification process through the Old Testament and Old Covenant, which results in their discarding of the most key elements of the New. In the words of Pete Townshend, they are left with "Here's the new boss, same as the old boss!" In other words, nothing has changed.
Unfortunately, that isn't all they do! They add HWA's particular set of gnosticism to the mix, including his pet conspiracy theories, the theory he embraced regarding church eras, the 6,000 years for man/one thousand years for God theory, the construct that HWA and the ministers he ordained are the successors to the priests, kings, prophets and apostles of the Bible and are currently God's government on earth, the British Israel hypothesis along with German-Assyrianism, and most importantly, sliding prophecy, in which what they say today comes from a God who accurately reveals His intentions to those who keep the sabbath and holy days, eat clean meats, and tithe, but when those prophecies and their timeline fail over and over and over again, they are still to be counted as God's mouthpiece and considered credible.
I'll never understand how my parental units, as supposedly intelligent, rational and thinking adults, made a conscious decision to allow HWA to take over their minds and their lives. All I can say is that they lived in much simpler times, a time in which all cons were more simplistic, and then perseveration took its toll.
Plus, you have to account for justification of effort. Once they worked so hard to get "in", it became harder and harder to leave. Admitting to oneself that you've wasted time on what seemed an important effort is extremely hard.
DeleteLCG: as it watches and waits...and shrinks
ReplyDeletemembership now down to 1,950 and falling
Anon, Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 9:41:00 AM PST, said:
ReplyDelete"...This becomes interesting in light of one of the Armstrongites recently reminding us of HWA's theory that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testsment..."
******
Yes, that HWA theory is actually about a Jesus Christ of the Bible, actually "another Jesus," and HWA taught it the best he knew how.
And that theory ranks right up there with the Mickey Mouse Millennium, where HWA thought and taught that Jesus Christ of the Bible, actually "another Jesus," would very soon return to earth and use all of them Ambassador College graduates, and hirelings, to reign on earth for 1,000 years...to control and rule over us, even forcing us to be happy.
To this day, most of the xcogs that were part of the former WCG still teach them false theories and can't seem to let go of them, even when they are presented with the scriptures that indicate that they are all preaching a "spirit of error," and not something that would come by God's Spirit.
Just read the writings of Kubik, Weston, Winnail (evangelist falsely so-called: not associated with some (actually THE) evangelists of Ephesians 4:11), Flurry, Thiel (prophet falsely so-called: not associated with some (actually THE) prophets of Ephesians 4:11)), Franks, Weinland, Pack, etc.
Their theories are not only into another Jesus, but driven by another spirit, they are into another gospel about all sorts of things, which aren't the gospel of peace (Romans 10:15; Ephesians 6:15).
How long will people continue to believe these false theories of these hirelings, seemingly more interested in $mammon$ than God/truth, who set themSELVES up to rule over others? When will these hirelings wake up and come out of being deceived (Jeremiah 29:9)?
Time will tell...
John
Part 1
ReplyDeleteDoug writes:
“In Ezekiel’s day, the house of Israel had already gone into captivity...”
This needs to be qualified.
Proposition: “House of Israel” can refer to the House of Judah
Isa 8:14 And He hath been for a sanctuary, And for a stone of stumbling, and for a rock of falling, To the two houses of Israel... (Young’s Literal Translation).
Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Against this proposition:
“But when these people are spoken of as nations, rather than collective individuals, the term “Israel” never refers to the Jews. “House of Israel” never means “Jews.” The three tribes at Jerusalem under the Davidic king are called, merely, the house of Judah” (Herbert W. Armstrong, US & B, p.65).
For:
Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mt 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
“By "the house of Israel" is meant the whole Jewish nation; for though this phrase, when distinguished from the house of Judah, designs only the ten tribes; yet here it intends all the Jews, then living in the land of Judea, among whom there were some of all the tribes...” (John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible, e-sword.net).
1Ki 12:23 Speak unto Rehoboam, the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and unto all [kol] the house [bet] of Judah and Benjamin, and to the remnant of the people, saying,
2Ch 11:3 Speak unto Rehoboam the son of Solomon, king of Judah, and to all [kol] Israel [yisra’el] in Judah and Benjamin...
“A small change to the source text in this verse should be noted: Whereas 1 Kings 12:23 states, “Say ... to the whole house (kol-bet) of Judah and Benjamin, and to the rest of the people,” the Chronicler changed the phrase to Say ... to all the Israelites (kol-yisra’el) in Judah and Benjamin. The phrase kol-yisra’el had been used earlier in this narrative referring to the northern tribes who rebelled against Solomon’s son. Here, however, it becomes an ideological concept that gives expression to the Chronicler’s understanding of those who constitute postexilic Israel. H. G. M. Williamson therefore states: “The Chronicler’s view in brief is that for the period of the divided monarchy both north and south may legitimately be called ‘Israel,” so that the phrase in Judah and Benjamin is geographical only” (1 & 2 Chronicles (New Century Bible Commentary; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1982], p.239)” (Louis C. Jonker, 1 & 2 Chronicles, UBCS, p.214).
2Ch 9:30 And Solomon reigned in Jerusalem over all [kol] Israel [yisra’el] forty years.
2Ch 10:3b So Jeroboam and all [kol] Israel [yisra’el] came and spake to Rehoboam...
2Ch 12:1 And it came to pass, when Rehoboam had established the kingdom, and had strengthened himself, he forsook the law of the LORD, and all [kol] Israel [yisra’el] with him.
“The term “all Israel” shifts, in this part of 2 Chronicles, from pointing to the entire nation (9:30), to either its northern half (in contrast to Judah, (11:1) or to “all the Israelites in Judah and Benjamin” (11:3), and at this final juncture, to Judah alone, as constituting the true Israel...” (J. Barton Payne, 1 & 2 Chronicles, EBC, Vol.4, p.479).
Part 2
ReplyDelete“House of Israel” in Ezekiel
Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
amber.
Eze 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north;...
“The Babylonian blow came in March 597 B.C... [King] Jehoiachin, the queen mother, the princes, and ten thousand lading citizens, smiths, craftsmen were taken along with servants and booty into captivity to Babylon. It was in this group that the prophet Ezekiel was taken to Babylon as well (Ezek. 1:1-3).
“Nebuchadnezzar installed Jehoichin’s uncle, Mattanian ... on the throne in 597 B.C. He ruled until the fall of Jerusalem in 587 B.C... Nebuchadnezzar changed Mattaniah’s name to Zedekiah...” (Walter C. Kaiser, Jr., A History of Israel, p.402).
Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month,
Eze 33:21 And it came to pass in the twelfth year of our captivity, in the tenth month, in the fifth day of the month, that one that had escaped out of Jerusalem came unto me, saying, The city is smitten...
Vision of idolatry in Jerusalem - September 17, 592 B.C.
Fall of Jerusalem - August 14, 586 B.C.
(“These dates are based on the tables given in R. A. Parker and W. H. Dubberstein, Babylonian Chronology, 626 BC - AD 75, (1956), p. 26. They must not be taken too dogmatically because they assume questions on which there is more than one interpretation... Dates given above assume that we are dealing with a vernal calendar” (John B. Taylor, Ezekiel, TOTC, pp.38-39)
The vision of the idolatry in Jerusalem’s temple occurred in the reign of King Zedekiah, close to six years, using above dates years, before the fall of the southern house of Israel.
Eze 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
Eze 8:10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about.
Eze 8:11 And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
Eze 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
Eze 8:17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here?
In Ezekiel chapter eight the southern house/kingdom ruled by King Zedekiah, is referred to as “the house of Israel” four times and as the “house of Judah” once.
Part 3
ReplyDeleteThe synonymous parallelism:
Eze 8:6 abominations that the house of Israel committeth here
Eze 8:17 the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here
Eze 8:1b ... I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me...
Eze 14:1 Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
Eze 3:4 And ... go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them.
Eze 3:11 And go, get thee to them of the captivity, unto the children of thy people, and speak unto them, and tell them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear.
“Ezekiel was from Judah, and he lived in the midst of a company of exiles from Judah. Thus we can expect him to be sent to the exiles from Judah” (Walther Zimmerli, Ezekiel 1, p.132).
Eze 4:4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it:
Eze 4:5 ... according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
“Ezekiel’s favorite designation for his primary audience is bet yisra’el, house/family of Israel... Ezekiel applies the name variously to the northern kingdom..., to the exiles of Judah in Babylon, and to the remnant in Jerusalem” (Daniel I. Block, The Book of Ezekiel - Chapters 1-24, NICOT, p.31).
Eze 45:8 In the land shall be his [the prince’s] possession in Israel ... and the rest of the land shall they give to the house of Israel according to their tribes.
Ezekiel’s ‘fourth” referent for the “house of Israel” is the united twelve-tribes of Israel, as above.
Jeremiah
Jer 5:15 Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O house of Israel, saith the LORD: it is a mighty nation, it is an ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say.
Jer 5:20 Declare this in the house of Jacob, and publish it in Judah, saying,
The terms “house of Israel,” “house of Jacob” and “Judah” are used interchangeably.
Watches & waits for what?!?!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 9:41 wrote, "This becomes interesting in light of one of the Armstrongites recently reminding us of HWA's theory that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testsment."
ReplyDeleteThere is a serious problem with the view that Jesus is the God of the OT. I am a Trinitarian, but I will not raise that issue. Let us leave the Holy Spirit out of it for this analysis. HWA asserts something call Bitheism, and he should have asserted Binitarianism. When he says that Jesus is the God of the OT, he portrays Jesus as a separate God from God the Father. This violates John 10:30. The rebuttal from Armstrongism would be that Jesus is one with the Father only in the sense that they a part of the same family. Yet, Armstrongists cannot exegete the concept of God as family from NT scripture. Jesus meant what he said - that he and the Father have a unity of substance in one divine being.
If HWA had understood the spiritual concept underlying the union of persons in Binitarianism, understanding the addition of the Holy Spirit to form the Trinity would have been straightforward. But he was blocked from this conclusion by the concept of a human family with separate members. Ephesians 3:15 is the only mention of a family we are given and it does not convey the idea that God in his essence is a family. It is, rather, the idea that God has a family. The NT supports very well the understanding that God is a Trinity. There is no support in the NT at all that God in his essence is a family. HWA used to claim that there was no Trinity in the Bible when it is actually his family concept of God that is wholly lacking. Harsh, I know but that's the way it lays out.
Long discussion. Little time to write about it.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
NeoTherm @ 6:37,
ReplyDeleteThe concept of Trinity is a stumbling block to understanding the Family of God as taught by HWA. I think a child will understand HWA's version rather than the hard to understand Trinity's 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 thingy.
Well, 8:25, as an anti-intellectual, HWA had in many ways the mind of a child. He failed spectacularly to understand higher concepts, particularly the ones which Jesus brought as part of the New Covenant.
ReplyDeleteReality? Not that it's a spiritual authority, but anyone who has ever watched Star Trek will find it very easy to understand the Trinity. Sometimes, God gives us avenues of learning apart from scripture to assist us in our journey. But it is also true that people who do not want to understand something which would require a fundamental change in their lives become flustered and claim they can't understand, or it is too difficult to understand.
8.40 Pop M
DeleteI wouldn't call HWA a anti intellectual. In fact he was very much interested in ideas. However, like many of today's intellectuals, truth wasn't his primary goal. He came up with a particular blend of truth and error that he felt comfortable with, and that he knew others would like as well.
I believe he was very conscious of the truths that he rejected.
The reason so many still venerate HWA is that they too are in love with his special blend of truth and error.
Anonymous 8:25
ReplyDeleteHWA taught the family of God, but it is not in the Bible so what good is it? We do not understand the Trinity fully. God transcends us. He says so himself. Isaiah 58:5. Harsh but true. Get over it.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
ReplyDeleteAnon…..Part 3…..2:53:00 PM PST
I found www.losttribesofisraelmyth.com/
which touches on your post. You are quite correct.
Also when Jesus said go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, the scripture also states in previous chapters that He had compassion for the people as sheep without a shepherd, yes they Israel were indeed ‘lost sheep’, and not lost in the British Isle’s as some so erroneously contend.
We had actually gone back into the Babylonian and Assyrian records, practices, and certain scriptures which proved that the lost tribes were lost not because they are somewhere today as distinct groups, but to assimilation. Some were Samaritanized, others were released and returned to their covenant lands but with new names from their captors, and others had taken advantage of opportunities extended to them to move and live amongst Judah. There were people alive during the time of Jesus and the disciples who were mentioned as being from some of the lost tribes, present in Jerusalem. The paper required a lot of research, and is probably still floating around over at Painful Truth. I just don't happen to care about it any more because it had no influence on the doctrines and policies of the ACOGs or beliefs of the COGlodytes.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that these lost tribes were largely assimilated is the reason why dna cannot link the people from HWA's theories to the countries of Western Europe.
Anonymous 11:24
ReplyDeleteI would very much like to read the paper you wrote on the dispersion of the Tribes of Israel.
If you can give me the title, I will look around for it on the web.
Thanks.
Doug again speaking about the Watchman, addressed and repeated many times over recent years by Doug himSELF, concludes with saying:
ReplyDelete"...Let’s pray that God will open doors to make that possible and that we will stay focused on the mission to be a watchman to modern Israelites and the world..."
******
In other words, Doug must think that begging people to pray to God may finally force God to open some doors. What happened? Why hasn't God done that: opened doors for Doug and his group by now? What's the problem? Is God no longer answering their prayers? How effective is that?
Of course, God's Church, wherever it may be, does have a Door:
John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
And The God, God the Father, the God of the Old Testament (Acts 3:13) said through His Son this: "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." Revelation 3:8
Is Doug looking for that door to open? Even the Laodiceans have a relationship to a door, too. Thinking an open door is for some organization (Doug/Weston’s org, United Ass., Flurry, etc.) to do something to help/assist God in warning people is silly. Didn’t God plan for His 2 witnesses? Not people and groups who set themselves up to receive $mammon$, b/c they preach some Jesus and gospel of their own making!
For what it is worth, the ancient Israelites put blood on\about a door, not some window, to picture Christ our Passover sacrificed for us.
When God's 2 witnesses begin exposing the Trumps, will that be sufficient, or will something be lacking on God's part? They will probably travel worldwide during 3 ½ years, but be murdered in the Jerusalem area.
Well, Doug, who teaches a Mickey Mouse millennium of "another Jesus" to very soon (like: yesterday?) to return to earth and reign for 1,000 years, also believes, unless we learn otherwise, that his Jesus is the God of the Old Testament.
Might Doug and his group be among those who "denied My name?" And to worship “another Jesus” in lieu of, in the place of the true God the Father? Wouldn’t that be idolatry? Just something to think about.
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
ReplyDeleteA little aside to think about: Doug mentioned Moses: "...Moses warned the Israelites that if they disobeyed God and despised His laws and statutes, they would be punished (Leviticus 26:15)..."
******
Now, there is a Watchman for you! And we all know the history of the Israelites, and God the Father knew it all along and foretold it to Moses, just before his death, with all sorts of details within the song of Moses and is very clearly spelled out between Deut 31:16 through 32:43.
So how will Doug and his group affect any of this history/prophecy? What is the mission besides insuring that $mammon$ continues to flow in and out of the xcog organizations and the lives of the former hirelings from the former WCG?
People on this blogsite keep hinting to Doug to speak about Jesus Christ, the One that God the Father, by His Spirit and grace and mercy, sent to save ALL Israel, save the world, and teach people to "love one another." Where is the mission to teach those messages of God?
Again, does Doug deny God the Father by preaching a Jesus to be the God of the Old Testament, as so many of the xcogs still teach?
God knows His Plan; He shared it with Jesus Christ. What will be the outcome for the Israelites, no matter what Doug and his group prays and begs for?
Deut 32:43 Rejoice, O ye nations, [with] his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, [and] to his people.
Although Doug may think that God's enemies are flesh and blood, they're not. His adversaries are identified in Ephesians 6:12, but who would believe it?
God has unconditional love for His people, and that will be demonstrated with 2 resurrections; a 3rd resurrection is another false theory of Doug and numerous xcogs from former WCG. It is all part of a plan whereby we all eventually learn to hate evil. It all started back in a Garden. Evil, like the wicked Satan and his angels (Matthew 25:41,46), isn't forever.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
We are still in that day of evil, but it's not forever (Psalm 74:12).
And after Moses' song, then what?
Deut 32:44 And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun.
Moses and Joshua (chap 24) both knew that the Israelites, lacking the power of God's Spirit, could not, and would not, serve God..............and that same message is still true today!
Will Doug and his sons read the words of a real Watchman: words of The God through His servants, Moses and Joshua?
Time will tell...
John
NEO, It's called "British Israelism Revisited", and is in the article archives at Painful Truth, warts and all, under the year 2010. It's one of three companion pieces I wrote on B.I.
ReplyDelete