Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Groen is still preaching a message of atonement, not of Jesus Christ's grace.
That means Groen must, if he is sincere, atone for the damage he did as one of Pack's ministers. He can't repay the Common he browbeat members into giving, and he can't restore families he destroyed. His idea of repentance seems to be that people should send tithe money to HIM, to Groen, instead of to Pack. Something about that just doesn't sound quite right.
Its sad to me, and perhaps that is an arrogant position, nonetheless, that a man can see all the corruption, all the fake, all the smoke and mirrors, then go on to call it out publicly... only to start another organization. Why is everyone so bent on having an organized church? I dont know Alex, and I wish him well on his personal journey to build his character, but at the same time I have no reason to think this will be anything more than (as it is with every new group) the same game with a different leader. Just a way to continue doing what the preacher is already doing. Rather than recognizing a closed door (the idea of an organized church) they just grab a sledge hammer and open the same door again... then get surprised and angry when there's no one on the other side.
Probably the best sermon you ever gave, Alex...as far as commenting on wacky pack. The comments on you being homeless, however, don't get you any sympathy from me. You were making a lot of money...and must have been able to put some of it aside for the hard times you must have known were coming. What other reason than wanting to get all the money that you could get, would there be for you staying if you believed pack was an heretical false prophet/apostle? Yes....it must have been greed.
And now what? Set up your own church of falseness to follow in your "father in the gospel's" footsteps? Dave has taught you well! Keep those tithes and offerings coming in....Alex and family want to have a nice home and not have to stay in hotels or with family anymore! I think he misses the good life...keep it coming folks!
What have any of these men got to do with the truth? Unless and until the veil of the Mosaic law that covers their hearts and minds is lifted and they see the gospel of grace (1Cor15:1-4) they should be preaching, they are under a double curse (Gal 1:6-9). The law will never save you, nor can anyone keep it perfectly, which puts them, as well as those who believe them, under a third curse (Gal 3:10). Oh, you foolish Galatians.
Alex Groen is homeless, just like many to whom he preached Dave's doctrine of Common?
You might think Alex would develop some humility, and some empathy for those he defrauded while one of Dave's ministers. You might think he would go out and get a job, as there are PLENTY of jobs in today's job market. If Kevin Denee can go out and get a real job, so can Alex.
How sad that Alex remains much more of a disciple of Dave Pack than he realizes.
2. When I worked at RCG headquarters, I actually made quite a pittance! It was less than what I was making before I moved to Ohio, which at the time wasn’t much either. I had next to zero funds set aside when I decided enough was enough at RCG HQ.
3. I could literally care less about money. I worked for a non-profit for 10 years of my life before I got into the business world. I used to manage group homes. I went to school for global political economics because I wanted to work for an NGO doing charitable work in impoverished countries.
4. I gained employment two months after leaving RCG in July 2020. I now make significantly more than what I made when I worked at RCG HQ. Tithes and offerings sent to The Revived Church of God will be used to do the Work. Would I like to work full time at The Revived Church of God one day? Absolutely! Doing the Work is my passion! Hence my frustration with the other groups—no one seems to put in any effort.
5. The Revived Church of God has been entirely funded by me up until recently. The countless hours of work that have gone into building it thus far have been on my personal time.
6. As a minister in RCG, I was never anything less than kind to everyone I interacted with. From those that were in my pastorate to those that reported to me at RCG HQ. In that respect, I have nothing to apologize for.
7. Here’s what I am sorry for: I am sorry for going along with the machine. I am sorry for being one those “20 ministers” that sat in meetings with DCP and was used as a tool to perpetuate his madness. I am sorry for not speaking up sooner. I am sorry for pulling my punches in messages to conform to the latest prophetic nonsense that DCP was teaching. And I am sorry that I didn’t make an even bigger stink when I left RCG in order to reach even more people.
So basically you say it's on YOU to supposedly make a difference - SO MUCH that God will become satisfied before Christ establishes His Kingdom... Riiiiight
What I gathered from your post is that you are saying out of the 100's of splinter/sliver groups, you studied them all, and couldn't find a perfect one.
Thus, you felt compelled to start your own.
You understand by making such a move and having such a mindset, it makes you like a "Chosen One" and far greater than any other leader out there.
Prophetic fulfillment is not and won't be on your shoulders.
Maybe you should give up ministry. Does the world really need another half baked COG?
Aren’t all modern COG’s just varying degrees of copies of WCG?
You and the world deserve better.
I’d talk to David Pack’s son. He seems to have moved on and you can too. Or you can be a Millerite on a rooftop (YouTube) yelling about how the worlds going to end, or America and Britain in prophecy, or some other “revealed truth”
You’ve left one church and now you just have to leave one mindset.
Hi, Alex! Thank you for admitting that you were in rebellion against Mr. Pack while you were taking a paycheck from him! He was preaching common while you were his minister, so if you claim that you didn't teach it you were deceiving Mr. Pack as well as RCG brethren. In your 3:47PM reply, you wrote:
I am sorry that I didn’t make an even bigger stink when I left RCG in order to reach even more people.
Of course, by "reach more people" you mean "gain more tithers." The fact that you feel qualified to start your own church instead of humbly being taught by those far senior to you in some other church, tells us all we need to know about your character.
I am impressed Alex, (not that my view is of any value) that you engage in the conversation despite the fact that it started slanted against you. Sincere kudos. In my experience that is uncommon.
I do have a real question for you though. I have heard many many men complain about a lack of energy spent actually doing a work, I myself have spent quite a lot of time saying those things, yet for so much talk I have YET to find any person who can articulate JUST what that 'work' will/should be. Many people appear to belive that a website is a work, or that a magazine is, or that a podcast, or the conjunction of such things. NONE of these types of things is going to reach all ears, especially as a 10-1000 person outfit. All these avenues are dead ends, hundreds and hundreds of COG leaders have such mechanisms and all together cannot muster Anywhere near the viewership of Depp's divorce or a kardashians wardrobe selection... yet all brag incessently about their 100k youtube views as if that's a drop in the social bucket. What do you intend to do, what is it that YOU will do that hundreds of other men AREN'T? I mean that in NO way as a glove in the face, I mean that as a real question. I've HAD to answer that question of myself and my answer had to be honest. I'll be happy to share my answer if you're interested but I don't believe my answer to be the CORRECT answer as if such a thing is concrete.
Alex, ignore 4:18:00 PM PDT. It sounds like DCP is enraged at you for revealing the truth about the ongoing insanity at "The Compound". Ignore the haters and do the right things.
P.S. Seems he didn't like the fact that you were in rebellion against an Utterly False Deceiver and False Prophet that resides at the Wadsworth Compound.
Madman said: "Hi, Alex! Thank you for admitting that you were in rebellion against Mr. Pack while you were taking a paycheck from him!"
Was the False Prophet paying you or was the Church organization known as RCG paying you? Seems that Davie Boy views everything including the Compound has his personal property, and any disagreement with his moronic ideas as a "state of rebellion" against his personal integrity, or lack thereof.
Alex, Alex, Alex. Dr. Robert J. Thiel saw through Dave Pack many years before you did. Dr. Thiel has also received two ordinations that you have not. First, he was ordained with a double-portion of God's Holy Spirit. Then his ordination was confirmed by Evangelist Evans Ochieng, who had been ordained by the Global Church of God. Alex, you're just an upstart. And what is the proof that you are an upstart? It's that you don't have the maturity to see that you are just an upstart!
Instead of collecting people's tithes to "do a work" that duplicates hundreds of other small "works" like yours, you would do a whole lot more good if you organized fundraisers for RCG members who became destitute during your years as one of Dave's ministers.
Anon 6:27 no Mr. Alex Groen he has more credibility than Bob he does better videos and even though Bob exposed DCP Alex was in RCG and is a first-hand source.
6:27 wrote: "Dr. Robert J. Thiel saw through Dave Pack many years before you did. Dr. Thiel has also received two ordinations that you have not. First, he was ordained with a double-portion of God's Holy Spirit. Then his ordination was confirmed by Evangelist Evans Ochieng, who had been ordained by the Global Church of God. Alex, you're just an upstart. And what is the proof that you are an upstart? It's that you don't have the maturity to see that you are just an upstart!"
That is hilarious! If anyone does not have the maturity to see that he is just a self-appointed upstart it is Bob Thiel! From a questionable double blessing that was never given as a basis for starting a splinter group to the asinine "self-ordination" in Africa by one of his church hopping Sabbatarian followers, Bob demonstrates EVERYTHING that is wrong in Armstrongism. Not only that, Bob has no real theological education in Christology. Bob is nothing more than a heretical Judaizer.
While I certainly do not agree with Alex's message, he certainly is far more polished and professional that Bob Thiel's big toe can ever hope to be!
Lay off Bob Thiel’s big toe. It’s been doubly blessed. Unlike my big toe, I would wager a dollar each way that Bobs big toe has no fungus. Not that I could say that about the space between his ears. You did mention Bobby boy is nothing but a heretical Judaizer. I reacon he should get a DNA test to prove just that. Come on Bob point out your Semitic blood line and roots. Your Israelite heritage. That your not just a ‘gentile’ also ran.
My question is, what motivates anyone to start up yet another splinter group of Armstrongism? From our vantage point in the cheap seats, we've watched so many people attempt this already, and they don't draw big numbers from their mother ship, and they don't attract new, first time members. That second category, not even the established larger groups are able to accomplish. Armstrongism as a religious con or heresy is toast. It's worn out, time and date expired. It had its main appeal to people living in the existing conditions of the 1950s and '60s.
People need to begin to just say "screw it," walk away from it, and get on with their lives. It isn't as if any of you with your particular charisma, talent, and skill sets can somehow bring about the massive revival that everyone else has already attempted and experienced negligible success with.
Speaking of toe fungus, I certainly hope the makers of hemorrhoidal medications never go mad with similarly disgusting photos of peoples' anuses!
Rick Shabi, becoming UCG president wont change much over there. Its an administrative position, business manager kind of thing, and he has a CPA background.
UCG has had many presidents, and it does not mean much (if any ) change on how things are ran there, or change in thrust, image or philosophy.
Like Sears or Radio Shack, UCG is slowly going to become more and more irrelevant, and no innovative or progressive culture will be coming forth to increase relevance or marketability.
Be that as it may. And Dave deserves all the bashing he gets. But he is probably the most successful person that has taken HWA's business model and turned it into something more than just a website. Does not make him Elijah or Joshua, but it does make him a mini version of Herbert Armstrong----which was, in my view, his goal all along.
Rick Shabi was elected as UCG's new president. In the past, UCG has announced things like this publicly on their website and social media platforms, but up to this point they have been completely silent about this change in leadership.
Alex, You apparently have a desire to help others. You do not have to be a minister to do this. Not too long ago you were under the spell of Pack. While breaking that spell is wonderful, frankly, you have not yet had enough time to work through it and see things somewhat clearly enough; it takes time. You grew up under Armstrongism and then found your way to Pack. What part of you lead you in that direction? You must determine that. That part is still there to a degree; it will lead to some inadvertent false teaching. Nevertheless, I’m glad you saw the light regarding Pack, but also know that Pack did not fall far from the Armstrong tree. Armstrong too had his false prophesies where he claimed the authority of Christ. I wish you and your family well as you draw closer to the Lord that Pack and even Armstrong did not properly preach/explain.
Anonymous Friday, May 20, 2022 at 12:04:00 AM PDT said, "My question is, what motivates anyone to start up yet another splinter group of Armstrongism?"
MY COMMENT - Initially, probably the same behavior that motivated Herbert Armstrong to announce to wife Loma that he had found "the new family business" after landing an aluminum siding sale to a Seventh Day Adventist minister at the start of the Great Depression. Armstrong was very impressed that the minister had the money to consummate the sale when many others had no money.
Then, disagreement over doctrine. After being a minister in the Church of God, Seventh Day and having articles published in the Church's Bible Advocate publication, Armstrong left the Church to go solo when the COG7D refused to accept Armstrong's unique British Israelism and the Annual Feast Day doctrines. Groen is going solo over doctrinal differences in the Common doctrine and Pack's almost daily failed prophecies and the failure to uphold Deuteronomy standards for identifying false prophets - not to mention the warnings of the New Testament regarding false Prophets and Pack's complete disregard of Jesus own words.
Alex Groen and Herbert Armstrong have the same motivations. Armstrongism has become generational. Armstrong's work is the grandparent of Groen, and great grandparent is Church of God, Seventh Day (BTW, for a dead Church, the COG7D sure has spawned a lot of Churches and branches). But unlike Armstrong's R/WCG, all the hundreds of splinters and grand children splinters are all low wattage works. Consider, if Groen can attract 100 tithe paying converts in his "splinter of a splinter" Church, and if each convert can contribute on average $3,000 a year, then his low wattage Work will gross $300,000 - enough to provide a comfortable living and a website for an internet presence which he can administer from home.
Alex...I don't know if you have a WCG background or a splinter background or if Davey is your first COG. BUT how can you be a minister (or prophet or apostle if that's what you're shooting for) as you were anointed by a False apostle/prophet/minister? Common sense should tell you that you are a false minister...same as wacky pack!
Best post-resignation speech ever!
ReplyDeleteI am having a tough time comprehending this message, is Alex in some way implying that Mr Pack is a false prophet?
ReplyDeleteGroen is still preaching a message of atonement, not of Jesus Christ's grace.
ReplyDeleteThat means Groen must, if he is sincere, atone for the damage he did as one of Pack's ministers. He can't repay the Common he browbeat members into giving, and he can't restore families he destroyed. His idea of repentance seems to be that people should send tithe money to HIM, to Groen, instead of to Pack. Something about that just doesn't sound quite right.
is Alex in some way implying that Mr Pack is a false prophet?
ReplyDeleteAppears to me that he is. No kinda-sorta-possibly with this guy. The chances that he will join Bob's COG are very unlikely indeed.
Its sad to me, and perhaps that is an arrogant position, nonetheless, that a man can see all the corruption, all the fake, all the smoke and mirrors, then go on to call it out publicly... only to start another organization. Why is everyone so bent on having an organized church? I dont know Alex, and I wish him well on his personal journey to build his character, but at the same time I have no reason to think this will be anything more than (as it is with every new group) the same game with a different leader. Just a way to continue doing what the preacher is already doing. Rather than recognizing a closed door (the idea of an organized church) they just grab a sledge hammer and open the same door again... then get surprised and angry when there's no one on the other side.
ReplyDeleteProbably the best sermon you ever gave, Alex...as far as commenting on wacky pack. The comments on you being homeless, however, don't get you any sympathy from me. You were making a lot of money...and must have been able to put some of it aside for the hard times you must have known were coming. What other reason than wanting to get all the money that you could get, would there be for you staying if you believed pack was an heretical false prophet/apostle? Yes....it must have been greed.
ReplyDeleteAnd now what? Set up your own church of falseness to follow in your "father in the gospel's" footsteps? Dave has taught you well! Keep those tithes and offerings coming in....Alex and family want to have a nice home and not have to stay in hotels or with family anymore! I think he misses the good life...keep it coming folks!
What have any of these men got to do with the truth? Unless and until the veil of the Mosaic law that covers their hearts and minds is lifted and they see the gospel of grace (1Cor15:1-4) they should be preaching, they are under a double curse (Gal 1:6-9). The law will never save you, nor can anyone keep it perfectly, which puts them, as well as those who believe them, under a third curse (Gal 3:10). Oh, you foolish Galatians.
ReplyDeleteAlex Groen is homeless, just like many to whom he preached Dave's doctrine of Common?
ReplyDeleteYou might think Alex would develop some humility, and some empathy for those he defrauded while one of Dave's ministers. You might think he would go out and get a job, as there are PLENTY of jobs in today's job market. If Kevin Denee can go out and get a real job, so can Alex.
How sad that Alex remains much more of a disciple of Dave Pack than he realizes.
For those who dont want to spend time watching the video, here is the "Readers Digest" condensed version...
ReplyDeleteDAVE PACK SUCKS!
He simply is pretending to be the "After Pack" - the "LAST Pillar" before the end 🤯
ReplyDeleteLet’s clear a few things up:
ReplyDelete1. I never once preached the doctrine of common.
2. When I worked at RCG headquarters, I actually made quite a pittance! It was less than what I was making before I moved to Ohio, which at the time wasn’t much either. I had next to zero funds set aside when I decided enough was enough at RCG HQ.
3. I could literally care less about money. I worked for a non-profit for 10 years of my life before I got into the business world. I used to manage group homes. I went to school for global political economics because I wanted to work for an NGO doing charitable work in impoverished countries.
4. I gained employment two months after leaving RCG in July 2020. I now make significantly more than what I made when I worked at RCG HQ. Tithes and offerings sent to The Revived Church of God will be used to do the Work. Would I like to work full time at The Revived Church of God one day? Absolutely! Doing the Work is my passion! Hence my frustration with the other groups—no one seems to put in any effort.
5. The Revived Church of God has been entirely funded by me up until recently. The countless hours of work that have gone into building it thus far have been on my personal time.
6. As a minister in RCG, I was never anything less than kind to everyone I interacted with. From those that were in my pastorate to those that reported to me at RCG HQ. In that respect, I have nothing to apologize for.
7. Here’s what I am sorry for: I am sorry for going along with the machine. I am sorry for being one those “20 ministers” that sat in meetings with DCP and was used as a tool to perpetuate his madness. I am sorry for not speaking up sooner. I am sorry for pulling my punches in messages to conform to the latest prophetic nonsense that DCP was teaching. And I am sorry that I didn’t make an even bigger stink when I left RCG in order to reach even more people.
So basically you say it's on YOU to supposedly make a difference - SO MUCH that God will become satisfied before Christ establishes His Kingdom... Riiiiight
DeleteDear Alex,
DeleteWhat I gathered from your post is that you are saying out of the 100's of splinter/sliver groups, you studied them all, and couldn't find a perfect one.
Thus, you felt compelled to start your own.
You understand by making such a move and having such a mindset, it makes you like a "Chosen One" and far greater than any other leader out there.
Prophetic fulfillment is not and won't be on your shoulders.
I hope you come to see this for yourself.
Maybe you should give up ministry. Does the world really need another half baked COG?
DeleteAren’t all modern COG’s just varying degrees of copies of WCG?
You and the world deserve better.
I’d talk to David Pack’s son. He seems to have moved on and you can too. Or you can be a Millerite on a rooftop (YouTube) yelling about how the worlds going to end, or America and Britain in prophecy, or some other “revealed truth”
You’ve left one church and now you just have to leave one mindset.
Hi, Alex! Thank you for admitting that you were in rebellion against Mr. Pack while you were taking a paycheck from him! He was preaching common while you were his minister, so if you claim that you didn't teach it you were deceiving Mr. Pack as well as RCG brethren. In your 3:47PM reply, you wrote:
ReplyDeleteI am sorry that I didn’t make an even bigger stink when I left RCG in order to reach even more people.
Of course, by "reach more people" you mean "gain more tithers." The fact that you feel qualified to start your own church instead of humbly being taught by those far senior to you in some other church, tells us all we need to know about your character.
I am impressed Alex, (not that my view is of any value) that you engage in the conversation despite the fact that it started slanted against you. Sincere kudos.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience that is uncommon.
I do have a real question for you though.
I have heard many many men complain about a lack of energy spent actually doing a work, I myself have spent quite a lot of time saying those things, yet for so much talk I have YET to find any person who can articulate JUST what that 'work' will/should be. Many people appear to belive that a website is a work, or that a magazine is, or that a podcast, or the conjunction of such things. NONE of these types of things is going to reach all ears, especially as a 10-1000 person outfit. All these avenues are dead ends, hundreds and hundreds of COG leaders have such mechanisms and all together cannot muster Anywhere near the viewership of Depp's divorce or a kardashians wardrobe selection... yet all brag incessently about their 100k youtube views as if that's a drop in the social bucket.
What do you intend to do, what is it that YOU will do that hundreds of other men AREN'T?
I mean that in NO way as a glove in the face, I mean that as a real question. I've HAD to answer that question of myself and my answer had to be honest. I'll be happy to share my answer if you're interested but I don't believe my answer to be the CORRECT answer as if such a thing is concrete.
Alex, ignore 4:18:00 PM PDT. It sounds like DCP is enraged at you for revealing the truth about the ongoing insanity at "The Compound". Ignore the haters and do the right things.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Seems he didn't like the fact that you were in rebellion against an Utterly False Deceiver and False Prophet that resides at the Wadsworth Compound.
Madman said: "Hi, Alex! Thank you for admitting that you were in rebellion against Mr. Pack while you were taking a paycheck from him!"
ReplyDeleteWas the False Prophet paying you or was the Church organization known as RCG paying you? Seems that Davie Boy views everything including the Compound has his personal property, and any disagreement with his moronic ideas as a "state of rebellion" against his personal integrity, or lack thereof.
Alex, Alex, Alex. Dr. Robert J. Thiel saw through Dave Pack many years before you did. Dr. Thiel has also received two ordinations that you have not. First, he was ordained with a double-portion of God's Holy Spirit. Then his ordination was confirmed by Evangelist Evans Ochieng, who had been ordained by the Global Church of God. Alex, you're just an upstart. And what is the proof that you are an upstart? It's that you don't have the maturity to see that you are just an upstart!
ReplyDeleteInstead of collecting people's tithes to "do a work" that duplicates hundreds of other small "works" like yours, you would do a whole lot more good if you organized fundraisers for RCG members who became destitute during your years as one of Dave's ministers.
Anon 4:18 PM there are some good people who start their own groups like Mr. Webster.
ReplyDeleteAnon 6:27 no Mr. Alex Groen he has more credibility than Bob he does better videos and even though Bob exposed DCP Alex was in RCG and is a first-hand source.
ReplyDelete6:27 wrote:
ReplyDelete"Dr. Robert J. Thiel saw through Dave Pack many years before you did. Dr. Thiel has also received two ordinations that you have not. First, he was ordained with a double-portion of God's Holy Spirit. Then his ordination was confirmed by Evangelist Evans Ochieng, who had been ordained by the Global Church of God. Alex, you're just an upstart. And what is the proof that you are an upstart? It's that you don't have the maturity to see that you are just an upstart!"
That is hilarious! If anyone does not have the maturity to see that he is just a self-appointed upstart it is Bob Thiel! From a questionable double blessing that was never given as a basis for starting a splinter group to the asinine "self-ordination" in Africa by one of his church hopping Sabbatarian followers, Bob demonstrates EVERYTHING that is wrong in Armstrongism. Not only that, Bob has no real theological education in Christology. Bob is nothing more than a heretical Judaizer.
While I certainly do not agree with Alex's message, he certainly is far more polished and professional that Bob Thiel's big toe can ever hope to be!
NO2HWA….
ReplyDeleteLay off Bob Thiel’s big toe.
It’s been doubly blessed.
Unlike my big toe, I would wager a dollar each way that Bobs big toe has no fungus.
Not that I could say that about the space between his ears.
You did mention Bobby boy is nothing but a heretical Judaizer.
I reacon he should get a DNA test to prove just that.
Come on Bob point out your Semitic blood line and roots.
Your Israelite heritage.
That your not just a ‘gentile’ also ran.
Totally ignoring the big COG news of UCG new President ...
ReplyDeleteMy question is, what motivates anyone to start up yet another splinter group of Armstrongism? From our vantage point in the cheap seats, we've watched so many people attempt this already, and they don't draw big numbers from their mother ship, and they don't attract new, first time members. That second category, not even the established larger groups are able to accomplish. Armstrongism as a religious con or heresy is toast. It's worn out, time and date expired. It had its main appeal to people living in the existing conditions of the 1950s and '60s.
ReplyDeletePeople need to begin to just say "screw it," walk away from it, and get on with their lives. It isn't as if any of you with your particular charisma, talent, and skill sets can somehow bring about the massive revival that everyone else has already attempted and experienced negligible success with.
Speaking of toe fungus, I certainly hope the makers of hemorrhoidal medications never go mad with similarly disgusting photos of peoples' anuses!
"Totally ignoring the big COG news of UCG new President ..."
ReplyDeleteIf it's such big news then why didn't you tell us who he is. What a troll!
Rick Shabi, becoming UCG president wont change much over there. Its an administrative position, business manager kind of thing, and he has a CPA background.
ReplyDeleteUCG has had many presidents, and it does not mean much (if any ) change on how things are ran there, or change in thrust, image or philosophy.
Like Sears or Radio Shack, UCG is slowly going to become more and more irrelevant, and no innovative or progressive culture will be coming forth to increase relevance or marketability.
Be that as it may. And Dave deserves all the bashing he gets. But he is probably the most successful person that has taken HWA's business model and turned it into something more than just a website. Does not make him Elijah or Joshua, but it does make him a mini version of Herbert Armstrong----which was, in my view, his goal all along.
ReplyDeleteRick Shabi was elected as UCG's new president. In the past, UCG has announced things like this publicly on their website and social media platforms, but up to this point they have been completely silent about this change in leadership.
ReplyDeleteAlex,
ReplyDeleteYou apparently have a desire to help others. You do not have to be a minister to do this. Not too long ago you were under the spell of Pack. While breaking that spell is wonderful, frankly, you have not yet had enough time to work through it and see things somewhat clearly enough; it takes time.
You grew up under Armstrongism and then found your way to Pack. What part of you lead you in that direction? You must determine that. That part is still there to a degree; it will lead to some inadvertent false teaching.
Nevertheless, I’m glad you saw the light regarding Pack, but also know that Pack did not fall far from the Armstrong tree. Armstrong too had his false prophesies where he claimed the authority of Christ.
I wish you and your family well as you draw closer to the Lord that Pack and even Armstrong did not properly preach/explain.
Anonymous Friday, May 20, 2022 at 12:04:00 AM PDT said, "My question is, what motivates anyone to start up yet another splinter group of Armstrongism?"
ReplyDeleteMY COMMENT - Initially, probably the same behavior that motivated Herbert Armstrong to announce to wife Loma that he had found "the new family business" after landing an aluminum siding sale to a Seventh Day Adventist minister at the start of the Great Depression. Armstrong was very impressed that the minister had the money to consummate the sale when many others had no money.
Then, disagreement over doctrine. After being a minister in the Church of God, Seventh Day and having articles published in the Church's Bible Advocate publication, Armstrong left the Church to go solo when the COG7D refused to accept Armstrong's unique British Israelism and the Annual Feast Day doctrines. Groen is going solo over doctrinal differences in the Common doctrine and Pack's almost daily failed prophecies and the failure to uphold Deuteronomy standards for identifying false prophets - not to mention the warnings of the New Testament regarding false Prophets and Pack's complete disregard of Jesus own words.
Alex Groen and Herbert Armstrong have the same motivations. Armstrongism has become generational. Armstrong's work is the grandparent of Groen, and great grandparent is Church of God, Seventh Day (BTW, for a dead Church, the COG7D sure has spawned a lot of Churches and branches). But unlike Armstrong's R/WCG, all the hundreds of splinters and grand children splinters are all low wattage works. Consider, if Groen can attract 100 tithe paying converts in his "splinter of a splinter" Church, and if each convert can contribute on average $3,000 a year, then his low wattage Work will gross $300,000 - enough to provide a comfortable living and a website for an internet presence which he can administer from home.
Richard
Seth Forrestier, I'll DM you.
ReplyDeleteAlex...I don't know if you have a WCG background or a splinter background or if Davey is your first COG. BUT how can you be a minister (or prophet or apostle if that's what you're shooting for) as you were anointed by a False apostle/prophet/minister? Common sense should tell you that you are a false minister...same as wacky pack!
ReplyDelete