Internet forums and newsgroups have been filled with horror stories over the decades from people whose lives were damaged by the counseling with ministers regarding those who they were going to marry. For far too many ministers this is a method of control. For those deemed worthy of being in the ministry, this can have immense ramifications as the church determine who you can marry.
Why Get Pre-Engagement Counseling?
The Bible tells us that good counsel is critical for making good decisions (Proverbs 1:5; 11:14; 12:15). Marriage is one of the most important decisions of one’s life (second only to baptism). The ministry must never become a “blessing factory,” just putting the Church’s stamp of approval on a marriage, no matter what. Rather, the ministry is here to help couples seeking marriage discern God’s will as they consider making a covenant with each other before God.
While the Church has historically suggested premarital counseling for all couples considering marriage, it makes much more sense to seek pre-engagement counseling. The intended purpose of counseling has always been to help couples better determine if they are “right for each other” in God’s sight and to increase their opportunity for success in a potential marriage. Regrettably, in all too many cases, once a couple is engaged, their focus is no longer on evaluating their relationship and whether or not they are right for each other. When their main concern is planning the wedding, they are far less evaluative of their relationship. Counseling can become simply an afterthought.
Pre-engagement counseling makes far more sense. The couple may be dating seriously, but they have not yet publicly committed to marriage in an engagement, and they are much more open to honestly evaluating themselves as potential marriage partners. This, in turn, gives much more opportunity for God to guide their decision-making. To better serve our membership in these critical decisions, the Church requests that all couples considering marriage seek pre-engagement counseling from the ministry before any formal engagement.
This might be less ridiculous if LCG's ministers offered more examples of happy and successful marriages. Young LCG couples know very well that this policy's chief overseer is Doug Winnail, who is about as qualified to give marital advice as Gerald Weston is to give child-rearing advice.
ReplyDeleteOne good thing about this policy is it will cause more young LCG couples to leave LCG when an idiot meddling minister interferes with their marriage plans.
I agree 5:34! I would not trust either of them.
ReplyDeleteWould LCG ministers have approved Moses' marriage to Zipporah? Of course not! Yet Zipporah intervened to save Moses' life (Exodus 4)! If Moses had undergone LCG counseling, he would have died and the Israelites might still be in Egypt!
ReplyDeleteThe LCG ministry and all the ministry of all the splits and splinters are not, in the least, qualified to do counseling of any kind. One would actually have to have an education in such things. All "ministerial advice" is just that, advice. One should be free to take it or leave it without penalty.
ReplyDeleteThis is nothing new, Tabi and I got in trouble for not getting pre-engagement counseling in LCG back in 2009.
ReplyDeletePCG does that too, they have to ask permission.
ReplyDeleteThe reasons for leaving these ACOGs are getting stronger every day. If I had not begun to disbelieve Armstrongism upon the great Disappointment of 1975, I would not have been able to have any kind of life at all. What would life have been like without Lynyrd Skynyrd, Stevie Ray Vaughan, or Fleetwood Mac? I can't fathom the fact that people with whom I attended church are still suffering under the same types of authoritarian know-nothings who made all of our lives so miserable decades ago. They haven't changed a bit, except possibly to get even worse!
ReplyDeleteI remember getting the stink-eye from a minister when I showed up to services in a new car.
ReplyDeleteThere are NO Biblical references to "Pre Engagement" counseling, or "Pre Marital" counseling, or even of a minister or Priest performing a marriage ceremony.
ReplyDeleteCOG ministry try to maintain control and gateways of life similar the the Catholic Church in retaining control of the "Sacraments", ie, being baptized, married, buried, anointed, blessed children , etc.
It is a mechanism to maintain job security and dependence.
How funny! Asking for childrearing advice from a man who has no children (Weston) or asking for marital advice from a man who is divorced (Winnail), who then remarries his ex, all while God says it's a sin and abomination to do so. No thanks. That's laughable!
ReplyDeleteAsking for childrearing advice from a man who has no children (Weston) or asking for marital advice from a man who is divorced (Winnail), who then remarries his ex, all while God says it's a sin and abomination to do so.
ReplyDeleteYou may be misunderstanding. Simply remarrying the wife you divorced is not necessarily a sin and abomination in God's eyes. It becomes a sin and abomination, though, if after your divorce your ex-wife marries and divorces a second man and you THEN remarry her. That's what Doug did, in violation of the same statutes he claims are vital for living the healthy life God intends for us. Doug's home life is ungodly, and it was his choice to make it that way.
Doug went through informal "pre-re-marital counseling" before he remarried Sherry. Several senior LCG ministers, and even members of Doug's own family, counseled him not to remarry her. He rejected that counsel. Now he proposes to punish others in LCG who do exactly as he did. What a hypocrite!
What's amazing about this stupidity is that it brings LCG's liberals and conservatives together. Liberals don't like the idea of pre-marital or pre-engagement counseling. Conservatives don't like the idea of being counseled by a system led by a man living in open rebellion against God's statutes.
Most of the ACOGs will not approve of a marriage "outside the church" and certainly not "outside the faith." As was mentioned above, most ACOG ministers would have rejected Moses' marriage to Zipporah, a marriage without which Moses could never have led the Israelites out of slavery and into freedom. Could we say that the ACOG marriage policy is all about keeping ACOG members in slavery to their groups instead of in the freedom of Jesus Christ?
ReplyDeleteTonto is correct pre anything counseling is a complete waste of time and totally non biblical.
ReplyDeleteWhilst long time married couples are able to pass on wise and humorous remarks about marriage and life in general. A ministry led pre-engagement counselling session is nothing to do with marriage but all about power and control.
All members of any type of church are supposed to marry within their 'status'. A status that is imposed upon members by the ministry. The ruling structure do not like any marriage happening outside of their control.
Ministry children are to marry after their kind and not from the membership rabble. The whole marriage policy is alive and kicking and has never changed and never will change.
By controlling the marriages the entire church structure can be controlled. Power and control has always been the life blood that motivated many a ministry. Ruined many a ministry. Always has and always will, until Jesus Christ returns.
"Young LCG couples know very well that this policy's chief overseer is Doug Winnail..."
ReplyDeleteWhile Doug Winnail may be the figurehead on this - this policy was actually insisted upon by Jeffrey Fall (whom by the way, also knows everything there is to know about child rearing...just ask him...)
this policy was actually insisted upon by Jeffrey Fall (whom by the way, also knows everything there is to know about child rearing...just ask him...
ReplyDeleteIf Weston insisted on a ban on men using hairspray, Jeff's image and countenance would fall way, way down. But vain old Jeff isn't the Presiding Evangelist, so how can he "insist" on anything?
Anon 2:30...while JF may not be the Presiding Evangelist, it would be a mistake for anyone in LCG to believe he doesn't wield a very heavy influence on policies and procedures...
ReplyDeleteMaking sure that you know that they are in charged. They stand between you and GOD.
ReplyDeleteThe sooner people figure out that what goes on in your personal life, the career you choose, or the house or car you buy is N-O-N-E of the ministry's business...the sooner you can have a closer, more rewarding and fulfilling relationship with God and just be overall happier! Oops, I think I gave away a trade secret they don't want you to know about!
ReplyDeleteGood luck and fortune to all those who may be getting married. However the "church" has had some history of broken marriages, divorce and remarriage and other scenarios that go on in the world. I just hope they put their trust and guidance in God before individuals who have set wrong examples in their lives.
ReplyDeleteThis is TOTAL BS!! My daughter and son-in-law were both counseled in the LCG and are currently DIVORCED!! They should have NEVER gotten married!! A so called Minister who doesn’t even know how to run his own life has NO BUSINESS interfering in the lives of others!! This is just another level of CONTROL for these twisted so called Ministers!! They have USURPED authority which does **NOT** belong to them!! Unfortunately, it will continue as long as there are people who willing GIVE THEM THE POWER!! It is in reality an ALLUSION of power!! They are in fact SELF appointed!!
ReplyDelete