Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Tuesday, August 16, 2022

Dave Pack Reemerges And Is Crazier Than Ever


 

Seven Times Fraud

 

On August 15, 2022, David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God presented, “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 387)” without the Tammuz Cooking Utensils. The table now seems sparse by comparison.

 

This entire message is speculation-rich, but can be summed up this way:

 

Since the “not-really-a-50-day-count to Trumpets” did not go over well with the marketing team, Dave reached into his top hat and pulled out a 40-day-count rabbit.

 

That's right. Instead of counting 50-days to Trumpets, the brethren now need to count 40-days starting tonight at sunset, which begins Av 20. The Bible is loaded with 40-day events making it much more appealing to the focus group.

 

 

World events will start tomorrow when God begins to punish all the nations of Israel for one month. Or…nothing will happen. Stay tuned to find out.

 

@ 00:00 After saying I was done, I don’t know how many times in the past, I’m speaking again for one reason and one only. I’ve long believed that a final message is given that would clear everything up just before events take place.

 

@ 01:03 …a single message closes the Mystery of God and prepares the way before God.

 

Learning disability alert. History repeats itself.

 

@ 01:20 I’ve wanted to end this series more times than you can possibly know. But I hope you’ll appreciate what I’m going to say. I fear God. And I’ve always believed that if something big must be said at the last minute, then I’ve gotta say it even after saying, “the series is over,” how many times? You’ll just have to believe that humanly, I cannot possibly want to be up here.

 

Everyone all around you and those you do not know across the internets want the same thing for you, Dave. They just want it all to be over. Count me in as a huge fan of that idea. Sadly, the signs are not good.

 

@ 04:29 You’re blessed if you got to a day, not a Coming. We’ve talked about that. It’s called the 1335. In other words, if you made it to 45-days before Trumpets in the year of application, then you’re blessed. You’re settled. And that was over four days ago.

 

Dave still clings to the idea that the 1335 began last Thursday night at sunset. Nothing tangible manifested on Av 15. Just as nothing tangible manifested on Av 7 or Av 10 as he previously said. Or just pick a previous date he taught going back to 2013. They all have the same “look and feel” of nothingness.

 

For the sake of a little background, when I resigned from The Restored Church of God in March of 2021, Dave was teaching that the church was “in the midst of the 1335,” which I did not believe. He told us if we were still there, we had “made it” and back then we “were settled.”

 

I did not believe him. So much so, that I told Bradford G. Schleifer and then later, Kenneth M. Orel directly that I did not believe the 1335 had begun yet. It came to pass after I left RCG that David C. Pack ALSO agreed with me and did not believe it.

 

Yet, here we are again. The 1335 started and nobody saw it happen. Again. Everyone just woke up that day and it was here. Again. Because Dave says so. Again.

 

How can you prove that? Well, you disbelieving S.O.B., the proof is self-evident. Mr. Pack is an apostle and may or may not be Elijah in some way, so…that’s your proof.

 

It is true because Dave says it is true—mic drop.

 

@ 06:07 A simple passing of time forced this conclusion. There are 41 days to Trumpets this year and 29 of them, Elul, are bad. And Christ is still not here.

 

This is now my new favorite quote: “A simple passing of time forced this conclusion.”

 

That will be repeated in future articles after nothing happens again tonight. Much can be said about what members of The Restored Church of God should be “forced to conclude” with “a simple passing of time” when it comes to “Mr. Pack,” but I will save that for later.

 

@ 06:31 I’m gonna prove that month to you and shock you by another unbelievable series of mistranslations. You won’t believe them. I’m still in shock.

 

#1 - You should not believe it.

#2 - Do not be shocked.

 

The mistranslation is only labeled that way because it does not fit the Dave Pack narrative. He has often looked at the Strong’s definitions and cherry-picked a possible meaning from the list they usually give. 

 

Spoiler Alert: He picked the one possibility that fits his current narrative. Please continue to not be shocked.

 

Dave has accused Thomas Jefferson of cutting words out of his Bible as he likes to tell it, "all the verses he didn't like." Historians know more about the facts behind the Jefferson Bible than I do. The point is that David C. Pack takes scissors and paste to his Bible all the time. He just did it again for Part 387.

 

Dave does not like what the Bible really says, so he changes the words to fit his delusion. That “truth will be self-evident” in a moment.

 

@ 08:40 It turns out there was only one kingdom before the Day of the Lord. We couldn’t settle on this. God had to force it on us through a lack of time. Now, the biggest part of that other than it’s been 13 days since I spoke, passing of time. So, we’re chopping days off the front.

 

@ 09:16 But we’ve lost 13 days since I spoke. But that’s nothing compared to one whole month we lost at the end of that period. So, that’s pinched us and demanded we take another look. And the Mystery of God wouldn’t be over if we hadn’t explained this.

 

Dave does not explain to the church why he was silent for so long. That is still a secret only those at Headquarters know the answer to. Since I understand how things run across the street, know that there is something Dave does not want to get out. And it had nothing to do with "figuring out prophecy."

 

Listen for not only what they say, but what they do not say. There are times when something is said only to the staff or only to the local congregation that never gets distributed. If I had a nest egg, I would bet on that.

 

 

Here comes a classic “Dave-Got-Tricked” by others into making him think he knew what he was preaching only to be duped because the Bible is chock full of wrong words.

 

@ 09:38 A bombshell revelation drove this message.

 

The big build-up that Dave leads to is that in Leviticus 26, four verses use the phrase "seven times" in the "blessings and cursings" chapter. According to him, the word does not mean "seven times" but "a week." So, it is not talking about intensity, but duration.

 

If only he could punch those Christmas-keeping translators in the face.

 

@ 20:29 Four times “seven times.” Except every one of them is mistranslated. No one ever thought to check. Yours truly included.

 

@ 20:56 Each time it says “seven,” if you look up the word, it means “a week.” “Times” is simply not there. It’s invented. It is not there. “I will punish you seven.” And you go look up the word in the Hebrew and it means “a week.”

 

@ 22:01 So you can go look it up. I think it’s number 7651 in the Hebrew and it means a week.

 

When you listen to the audio, you can almost hear his nose growing longer and longer.



Seven Times Mistranslated

Since four verses use "seven" as code for a "week" that means it is math time. Again.

 

7-Day-Week x 4 Verses = 28 Days = One month of Israel’s punishment = Elul

 

Before anyone gets excited that Dave finally cracked The Da Vinci Code hidden in the biblical texts, if you have access to e-Sword or Strong’s Concordance or BibleHub.com, you can easily prove his assertion to be flat-out false.

 

He may have been able to fool his audience at the moment that those stupid translators did not know what they were doing and caused Dave to misread his Bible for decades, but anyone who fact-checks him will see it in the proper light.

 

Here are some facts. Yes, I know…Dave hates facts.

 

Leviticus 26:18, :21, :24, and :28 use the Hebrew word sheba (H7651) translated as “seven times.” Sheba appears 395 times in the Old Testament. It always means “seven” of something. It is a number.

 

e-Sword - sheba (H7651)

a primitive cardinal number; seven (as the sacred full one); also (adverbially) seven timesby implication a week; by extension an indefinite number: - (+ by) seven ([-fold], -s, [-teen, -teenth], -th, times).

 

So, this is where Dave found that prophetic parachute. He saw that word appeared four times in Leviticus 26, so the math just kind of created itself. Forgot the fact of how it is used all throughout the Bible as “a primitive cardinal number.”

 

In Leviticus, there are 46 mentions of the word sheba (H7651) as “seven.”

 

“seven times”

“seven times more”

“seven days”

“seven sabbaths”

“seven lambs”

“seven years”

 

The word translated into English as “week” only appears in the Old Testament three times. H7620 is shabua. Leviticus 26 does not use that word. Dave knows this.

 

You will find the term “seven days” (H7651) (H3117) in 26 verses just in Leviticus. Dave knows this.

 

If Leviticus 26:18, :21, :24, and :28 meant a space of time, it would have been written as sheba yom. Dave knows this.

 

If God meant the translators to say “week” instead of “seven times” He could have done that. Dave knows this.

 

The word sheba (H7651) is never translated as “week” and guess what? Dave knows this.

 

No matter how hard he tries, just like never finding a full 50-days to count to Trumpets, Dave cannot find anywhere in the Bible that proves Leviticus 26 is supposed to use the word “week” and not just “seven” for intensity. He did not prove his point and he cannot prove his point.

 

He has done this countless times before. It is kind of a go-to when times are tough. I wonder if the folks still inside The Restored Church of God are too exhausted to notice. I hope they do look up the word as Dave instructs.

 

Dave continues to show his true colors in these desperate times. Again. I often repeat the same phrase: David C. Pack tells you everything you need to hear to make a judgment call if he is true or not.

 

Right before everyone’s eyes, he cut out the word “times” and pasted in the word “week.” I can envision Thomas Jefferson shaking his finger at Dave in the Kingdom.

 

In the end, the teaching of The Worldwide Church of God was correct. Those “seven times” in Leviticus 26 mean “intensity” and not “a space of time.” But Dave was pinned against the wall and needed to find some way out of the “not-really-a-50-day-count to Trumpets” and a cool “40-day-count” fits like O.J.’s glove.

 

God says His word is purified seven times, but maybe He was just being optimistic.

 

Surely the God who created the universe had no control over which English words made it into our Bibles. Is God in heaven shrugging, “Hey, those pig-eating translators just wouldn't listen to Me. Now, poor Dave is all confused and looks like a fool for 9-years running. Oops. That is on Me.”

 

Using Dave’s reasoning, we could now wonder if God meant His word is purified for just one week.

 

The glaring point is always: David C. Pack is not wrong. The Bible is wrong.

 

Facts and reality tell a different story. Sheba (H7651) does not mean “week.” Nope. Never.

 

This is worth repeating:

 

@ 20:56 Each time it says “seven,” if you look up the word, it means “a week.” “Times” is simply not there. It’s invented. It is not there.

 

Just like the word “week” is not there, Dave. It is there only in your mind because you need it to be.

 

 

Dave’s confidence was at an all-time high when he declared how certain he was.

 

@ 29:40 So, I’m gonna tell you on God’s authority, there is no way Christ is coming tonight.

 

That was in reference to Monday night. Last night.

 

I do not need God’s authority to declare this right now:

 

“There is no way Christ is coming tonight.”

 

How do I know this? “A simple passing of time forced this conclusion.”

 

David C. Pack is a false prophet and a false apostle who makes up theories as to what the Bible says and has a history established since 2013 that he is a biblical fraud. God does not back him up and God will not back him up.

 

He pushes the 40-day count again and then wonders if they heard him the first time.

 

@ 35:15 That’s why I’m gonna tell you absolutely I’m sure nothing will happen tonight.

 

In honor of Dave being right, I will borrow his words and apply them now.

 

“Absolutely I’m sure nothing will happen tonight.”

 

How do I know this? “A simple passing of time forced this conclusion.”

 

 


For a 44-minute message after a 13-day absence, this really did not have a lot of meat on the bones. There was one moment that did peak my attention.

 

Watch it to gain the full effect.

 



@ 39:23 I mean, we’ve got people so wicked trying, besieging us. I finally came to understand what Habakkuk 2:5 is. The wicked compassing the righteous. People who were once with us are more wicked almost than the devil. And we got some of our brethren seem to wanna listen to what they say. It’s strange.

 

Who is he talking about? What does he mean by “wicked”? That comment deserves a dedicated article and I will add that to my To-Do List.

 

How do you top that? I mean, the rest of the message is a real downer by comparison.

 

@ 42:37 …there’s a final message that clears up the Mystery. I promise you, you heard things today in this short message. We’ve got this…This is the picture.

 

Yes. Those people “heard things today” all right. But does anyone think that this is “the final message” or “this is the picture”? I am on the skeptic side of the camp, in case there was any doubt.

 

Either world events happen tomorrow to begin the punishment for all of Israel or Dave digs back into his Bible to find a 30-day count. Then a 20-day count. Then a 10-day count. Then a 7-day count. Then a 3-day count. Then a “big fat never mind because it was The Last Great Day all along!”

 

In less than 30 hours, David C. Pack will prove me right. Again.

 

He will prove himself to be a biblical fraud. Again.

 

Is he delusional or is he lying? My meter is REALLY starting to tip the other way. 

 

Marc Cebrian


See:  Seven Times Fraud

31 comments:

  1. You can just "feel the Love and Compassion" from the False Prophet. You shall know them by their fruits.

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  2. Marc, I had to stop reading in depth, for I was afraid I was going to get a headache trying to comprehend Pack's convoluted crap! How do those poor RCG members tolerate it it every sabbath, and Bible study?

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  3. I love watching these COG leaders squeal like stuck pigs when they believe they are being persecuted. They have brought it up themselves. If they learned to keep their mouths shut they wouldn't have these issues.

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  4. It's conned, Dave, conned, not count.

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  5. Phinnpoy at 7:12:00 PM said...“How do those poor RCG members tolerate it it every sabbath, and Bible study?”


    The current batch of RCG cult members have extremelyITCHING EARS” and an incredibly serious case of “PREDICTION ADDICTION.”

    After losing virtually everything they had to Dave Pack's “common” theft scam, they foolishly think that this is all they have left to live for.

    No Holy Spirit in the RCG. No sound minds in the RCG. Just Satan and the demons and their host Dave Pack seeing how much they can get away with.

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    Replies
    1. I would disagree with "itching ears and prediction addiction." My personal experience was that after awhile you become numbed to what dave is saying...it sounds like gibberish and it is gibberish. But you hang on just hoping that it will make sense...and at some point you realize that it never will make sense! Then you have to find a place that DOES make sense...and it can be a long journey to find a place that teaches the things that you knew and understood from the old WCG days. I still havent found a place like that. Probably LCG would be the closest, but I remember too the mud-slinging that went on when GCG was breaking up..all the lies that ministers were saying...shameful all around! And how they were trying to grab as many members and as much money as they could get. Someone leaked some of the board/council tapes..it was shocking to hear all the big names among the ministry fighting over control and money. It is where I learned that these men didn't "give" money to the church...they LOANED their money to the church and were calling in their loans before someone else beat them to it! As a matter of fact, dave was proud to say ( later on in rcg) that he had Loaned his money to Rod, and made sure to get it back before the breakup!

      All that aside, I think the members of rcg, apart from those at HQ, are there because they do not understand what dave is talking about (who can?) and can't get anyone to explain it to them and are just to beat up to know what to do. And for those who are employees...they will stay as long as they get paid. Some of these folks have worked there since they were kids and have never had a job outside of rcg! And the ministers who DO understand that dave is crazy...shame on them for letting it go on! brad and winkie and ken and whoever else is at HQ...and a special "shame on you" to ryan denee...someone who should know better!!! What happened to you, Ryan? You used to be such a great guy!
      Anyway I hope that the members of rcg can find their way out the mess they are in... I did and am SO thankful that I did! And a big thanks to Marc for documenting in a logical manner all of the totally illogical and insane things that dave is saying and doing , and all the false minister who continue to back him and continue to bully the brethren!

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  6. Let's call this what it is. It's a pathology, and there is no antidote or cure. The only preventative action possible is to resist it, don't listen to it, lest you be caught up in the self-destructive process yourself. I call it "Pack's Derangement Syndrome" (hat tip to Sean Hannity!)

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  7. Folks, we're STILL on track and BTW, the Open House is still on.

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  8. Any SELF PROCLAIMED APOSTLE turns out to be a FALSE APOSTLE! Look at the history. HWA(False apostle), made numerous prophecies which failed to pass, certified pedophile and drunk .GTA himself said if you want to talk to him on the phone call prior to 8pm or he would be 3 sheets into the wind. Flurry(False Prophet}, liar and total jerk who destroys families and has made numerous predictions that failed. Also has a public intoxication arrest to his record. Pack(Maybe the Jim Jones of the ACOGs}. Keeps making repetitive false prophecies, demands people to give ALL their possessions , go get 2nd mortgages and borrow on credit card to throw up a hog's rectum into his FALSE ministry. Flurry & Pack have the potential to bring a about an ACOG version of Jonestown.

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  9. Look at the wall of fancy bound books in his PR picture!

    Looks like one of those TV Lawyer commercials!

    In real life I'm guessing he has as much affinity for books as the founder of his discredited religion, high school dropout HWA!

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  10. In Matthew 20:25-26, Christ instructed church leaders to not lord it over their flocks. The ACOGs chose to ignore this and treat their members like rightless children instead. For instance I recall one minister complaining from the pulpit that the hero in Hollywood movies is always a "rebel." What's surreal is that those members who chose to be "dissident rebels" are those who spiritually matured and prospered, while those who conformed to the church culture of being good little boys and girls didn't. It's these church conformists that Dave and other crackpot leaders are eating alive.
    Btw, it was Hollywood "rebels" like James Bond, and not the conformists, who saved the world and defeated the bad guys.

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  11. Dave certainly has a fascination with 7 times punishment. The only clear translation that I get from this diatribe is that Mr. Pack's nemesis has now been profoundly and clearly identified as having seven distinguishable traits. Poor Marc Cebrian, now labeled as a (1) serpent, (2) lier, (3) hypocrite, (4) thief, (5) faithless, (6) wicked, (7) worse than the Devil.

    Dave Pack has now been the fulfillment of one scripture in the Bible. "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa. 5:20.)

    I guess in all of Mr Pack's Bible reading, he failed to notice that Lord's anger is kindled against his people who call good evil vs.25.

    And to think, we were supposed to believe that Dave Pack was just solving the "10,000 word puzzle" of the Bible. Unfortunately, when Dave looked at all the scattered pieces of the puzzle to start and assemble his grand great story, he chose only the pieces that pictured darkness, and then all the pieces that depicted evil, and then all the pieces that proverbially tasted bitter.

    Dave's conclusion to it all was to declare by the authority of God the puzzle is decerned and complete - all my enemies be condemned and damned.

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  12. My opionin is that it is a matter of hermeneutics. I have always had a certain uneasiness about criticizing groups like this. Within the Christian movement, a denomination like this has a high profile and is incontrovertibly an outlier. But then if you broaden your perspective and put yourself in the shoes of, say, an atheist (Dennis could consult on this), there is little difference between this denomination with its inordinate apocalypticism and mainstream Christianity - we are all in the same category, all deluded and we all believe and do crazy things. So when I criticize an organization like this, I am aware that some of my arguments could backfire.

    What really differentiates such off-center denominations like this is how they interpret scripture. It is the Single Authority approach. There is one man who can tell you what the Bible actually says. Nobody else can. So the one, recognized man has the market cornered. The Single Authority approach works best in isolation. There are Christians denominations that have a Single Authority but they for the most part respond to their milieu - the milieu of historical Christianity.

    But if you have a Single Authority that functions in isolation and without regard to historical Christianity, you have the high probability of some spectacular off-roading. I can't really say that this denomination is any different from traditional apocalyptic Millerism - it is just more densely coded. Their hermeneutic is not a rational interpretive process but, rather, a person. Its vagaries are the vagaries of a single person. HwA did not originate this approach but he did bring a new and melodramatic finesse to it. He did not seem to oversee every bit of hermeneutical writing when the WCG got larger but he did seem to always be getting things "back on track." Little denominations are easier to micro-manage than larger ones.

    Some might say that the way to solve this problem is to get rid of the Single Authority. But I don't think so. A congregation that wants this will just find someone else who has the same modus. Something like this just has to die off. In a few generations nobody will remember this little denomination.

    ******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer

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  13. I have a whole book on the lives of the translators of the KJV Bible. They spent hours in prayer, they knew all the biblical languages as well as French Italian and others. They were all scholars from Oxford, Cambridge, Westminster. They diligently compared each submission of the different books that they translated and took 7 years for them to produce a work that would satisfy a king. But of course our brilliant Dave can always find where they fallen short of his expectations. All Hail King David C. Pack.

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  14. This guy's hold on people after all the false prophecies and teachings is so sad and a lesson. Many in the COGs think to themselves, "He is a nut. We're not like that."

    Yeah, not quite. But you still follow the teachings of a man, HWA, who made false prophecies and teachings. And make no mistake, many of your beliefs are based on Armstrong's teachings and not direct teachings from the Bible.

    Just a few of Armstrong's false teachings not in the Bible that require little argument to rebut:

    1) Our doctrine (or being in select organizations) makes us real Christians. No, According to the BIBLE, Faith in Christ's atoning blood is what makes one a real Christian. Please show me where more than faith is required.

    2) You must understand the supposed meaning of the holy days to be a real Christian. No, this is all Armstrong. The Bible simply does not state anything of the sort. Before Sinai and after Christ (for new believers) there is no evidence of this teaching. Yet despite this, groups like COGWA require not just observance but yet even more indoctrinated belief of the MEANING of these days and bluntly states, "Without an understanding of the holy days you are not called." Sad.

    3) The real church will be called "The Church of God". These groups actually believe that having that name is a prerequisite to being a legitimate church. First off, "Church of God" is incorrectly translated into English from the Greek "Ekklesia Theos" which means "those of God's who are called out". It's a description, not a title of an organization.
    Further, the term "church" draws from the greek "kurikon" maybe passing through the Germanic "kirche" (which was not itself used before the 8th century). "Church" more directly came from the old English "cirice" and "Circe" who btw was a pagan greek goddess, but maybe that is neither here nor there. But, still, neither of these terms were used before the 13th century. And "church" itself was not used until the late 16th century. King James had the Bible translated in 1611 and set forth several rules for translation to support terms used by the Anglican "Church" one such rule was that the term ekklesia be translated as "church" rather than the more accurate "assembly" or "congregation" or "called out".

    So, what we have is a doctrine of the COGs that would indicate no one was a true group of real Christians until they used the term "church of God" which never occurred until the 17th century. Further, there are pagan elements to the etymology of the term "church". Shame! Further still (and painfully silly for most Christians to read), this argues against the ridiculous COG claim that their "church of god" goes back to the time of Jesus. How could it, if they must be called "the Church of God"? The COGs actually hang onto this false English translation as a doctrine.

    Strangely enough this ridiculous doctrine actually led to my further questioning of the COGs. I agree the whole thing is silly, but it is a doctrine.

    Sorry, longer than I intended. There are many more false and silly doctrines, but I think the three above are indefensible if you claim your doctrines are from the Bible and not fully founded on the doctrine of Herbert Armstrong.

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  15. I have your concerns too, Neo. Faith is necessary and our calling is of God. The COGs diminish Christ to simply a sacrifice and a soon coming king, and neglect the current work of the Lord in our lives under the New Covenant. He works in our hearts and saves us. Faith is necessary and powerful, but again the COGs teach that faith is not enough. The Shield of Faith should protect, but the COGs have damaged that shield. I tell some ex-cog friends who are agnostic/atheist that they have really never been exposed to Christ in the COGs. They were disillusioned by a false christianity. But, those in the COGs want to please God so that is a strong position to be in and the Lord knows where they are and wants them for His own.

    Of course, years ago when I heard the like of which I just wrote I found it ridiculous. And, maybe it is a little too strong, but I do know that I did not understand and know Christ while in the COGs. Much room for growth still, but the cognitive dissonance is mostly gone.

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  16. Christianity is really about removing sin from your life. The process of sanctification. To be more like Christ. I think the Bible illustrates a formula for doing so. By teaching nonsense, promoting false doctrines and twisting scripture in the name of personal pride and ego, Dave is really perpetrating evil to those in his church.

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  17. Dave Pack, whinning like Ron Weinland, and sounding like a babe: like Weston and Winnail, said: "...The wicked compassing the righteous. People who were once with us are more wicked almost than the devil. And we got some of our brethren seem to wanna listen to what they say. It’s strange..."
    ******
    Well, perhaps not as whinny as Weston and Winnail. Dave judges and blames people a lot more than those two do.

    For example, Weston acknowledged, recently, the evidence of spirit beings involved with the living organization causing lots of problems and he wrote this: "...Sadly, even some in the Church have allowed themselves to become instruments of those unseen hands causing divisions. .."

    Well, how does that happen? Does Weston really know how that happens to his followers?

    It appears that Weston/Winnail acknowledge the following scripture while Dave does not:

    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." Ephesians 6:12

    Regardless, all 4 men do a lot of wrestling with others: their followers. When will these four stop wrestling with flesh and blood? Why don't all four individuals agree "as one?"

    Could it be because these leaders, these former Pasadena WCG hirelings (including numerous other unnamed former hirelings), are fulfilling something the Apostle Paul mentioned?

    "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]." 2 Cor 11:4

    According to their "second coming" theories of confusion, when is that soon-coming Jesus, of theirs, going to return to reign on earth with them for 1,000 years going to begin? Other than timing, are their lies all that much different from that of the reemerging David Pack and his pack of lies? It's been a long time since HWA ceased existence.

    How much longer will we, and their followers, all have to bear with all of those alive that appear so much like false prophets?

    Time will tell...


    John

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  18. Christianity is really about removing sin from your life. The process of sanctification. To be more like Christ.

    When Jesus preached His message nearly 2000 years ago, He explained to His followers that he didn't know the date or hour of His own return.

    Christianity is supposed to be a process of becoming more like Jesus Christ.

    So, it follows that we should try much harder to emulate Jesus than to try to know more than He knew. How does knowing the timing of the correct 42 month countdown make you more Christlike? I find it so sad when Bwana Bob proclaims that Jesus "cannot" return for several more years. It's as if Bob doesn't realize that he, like all of us, is a mortal being, and that if we die today it means Jesus has come for us today, no matter what else will go on in elaborate prophetic scenarios in the years ahead.

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  19. When will the members of the RCG get a clue and get out? How many failed prophecies must Dave give before members get wise? To the RCG members, David C Pack had already disqualified himself as a minister after his first failed prophecy, so why are you still following this guy? Read your bibles and stop listening to this moron, get out and find yourselves a good bible based church.

    PS. In your search for a real bible based church, stay away from the other churches of God.

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  20. Time to put an end to the RCG, PCG and all other CoG. Close up shop and call it a day, nothing of any interest to see here.

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  21. Uhhh Dave...Davey, Davey, Davey, when are you going give it up and call it a day? Enough, is enough already. Stop embarrassing yourself. Just sayin'

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  22. Remember how much fun Banned was before it was captured by certain people doing their best Brady Bunch impersonation….”Marsha Marsha Marsha….!!!”….now Banned is just “Dave Dave Dave…!!!”

    What a drag

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  23. Good points, John. How many times have we heard (II Corinthians 11:4):
    "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]."

    All those times, this verse was directed toward those that did not teach Armstrongism.
    Yet, it was Armstrongism that creeped into the minds of many Christians unawares and took the focus off of Christ (the true Gospel) and onto the Sabbath and the Holy Days. It was Armstrongism that taught another Jesus. They did not like the idea of a Jesus that loves and comforts you and tells you your faith is counted as Righteousness. They preferred focusing on Jesus the sacrifice and more importantly Jesus the Soon Coming King to bring perfect observance of the Law. They claim this is the Gospel, but this is in fact a different Jesus and different Gospel than that taught by the apostles.
    Seemingly ignored were all those teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that teach belief and faith in Jesus were what brought salvation.
    But, they taught there was more, oh so much more that was required. So much more to KNOW. It reminds one of some gnostic teachings.
    They deny the power of the Holy Spirit by denying the Holy Spirit’s presence in individuals that are outside their organization(s). Do they deny the power of the Holy Spirit when they deny the presence of the Holy Spirit in those that have accepted the Lord’s sacrifice in their lives resulting in changed lives that produce the fruit of the Spirit simply because those individuals are not part of their organization? I believe they are denying the power of the Holy Spirit.

    When Christians outside the cogs show more faith and love than those in the cogs (or for the sake of argument “to an equal degree”) what does that mean about the power of the Holy Spirit? It means the cogs have diminished the Holy Spirit so much that the only decipherable difference is that the real Holy Spirit will make you warm a seat in their organization. It’s my belief that the Holy Spirit’s power is greater than that.

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  24. There's a FB group called "I'm not reading all that unless snacks are provided". Feel like Dave's "reasoning" belongs there.

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  25. our resident whiner at 3:27 had this importantthing to say:

    "Remember how much fun Banned was before it was captured by certain people doing their best Brady Bunch impersonation….”Marsha Marsha Marsha….!!!”….now Banned is just “Dave Dave Dave…!!!”"

    Marsha, Marsha! No one here is forcing you to read the posts. Move along and comment on Bob Thiel's blog. Pack is deservingly being highlighted here becasue he has the potential not to casue serious damage to his followers or have one of them snap and causes serious issues. The heat is on with the public as well as with exCOG folk. If you can't stand the heat then leave.

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    1. To me, Bob and Dave are the tip of the ACOG ice berg. Like wolves without sheep's clothing, their folly is easy to discern. The others are covert Pharisees, making it harder to unmask their shenanigans.

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  26. 3:27: It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it! Personally, every time I think of Dave Pack, I want to vomit. However, people need to be warned and awakened, because he's the worst fleecer, and the shock jock of all things Jesus. His people need to give a good listen to Pink Floyd's "Brain Damage", and take heed. Problem is most of them probably think that Pink Floyd is some gay guy, and will just laugh knowingly and continue listening to the lunatic that's gotten into their heads instead.

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  27. Mat 24:23
    Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    Mar 13:21
    And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

    Ecc 8:8
    There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

    DCP should work with his hands instead of waving them all over the place.

    Scripture has DCP all over, the areas we are warned not to follow.

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  28. jim, Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 4:15:00 PM PDT, said:

    "...How many times have we heard (II Corinthians 11:4):
    "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]." …

    …Seemingly ignored were all those teachings of Jesus and the Apostles...But, they taught there was more, oh so much more that was required...
    They deny the power of the Holy Spirit by denying the Holy Spirit’s presence in individuals that are outside their organization(s)...they are denying the power of the Holy Spirit..."
    ******
    Those xcog hirelings (like Weston, Winnail, Shabi, Flurry, Franks, Whineland, etc. "little helpers of HWA") will either have God's Spirit or they won't. HWA ceased existence. Joe Tkach senior was told to sell the jet, close the colleges, the work would not continue on as it had been doing. So, assuming God was working through HWA as the servant, and those little helpers were supposed to be helping God's servant, and he died on 16 Jan 1986...then guess what? No more need for the little helpers! But that paycheck looms big in their eyes, because it's either God or mammon. We have now had years of seeing what they have accomplished, and it is virtually nothing and the shame of their nakedness is showing that to all of us. What did God do? Move on? HWA didn't need any assistance from his helpers, and neither do we, today. Yes, Jim, they "...are denying the power of the Holy Spirit..."

    When they are driven by another spirit, such as was the case with the Pharisees (Matthew 23:33-35), they will focus on another God which is not Jesus' God, another Jesus, another gospel, etc. The gospel and Jesus are two separate subjects; they are related, but they are not the same.

    By professing that Jesus is the "God of the Old Testament" they commit idolatry, by placing something else in place of the true living (and nothing to do with the group using that noun) God (Acts 3:13; Matthew 16:16). Guess what? They deny the true God, and they can't seem to do anything about it. They seem to be stuck, stagnant with their man-made theories based on their here/there a little of sticking Bible verses together.

    Didn't any of these hirelings have any faith? They preached and admonished us to have the "faith of Abraham," even if we lost our jobs over observing God's Feast days; however, when it came time for them to them to exercise some "faith of Abraham" they abandoned sheep, fled the former WCG organization, left their ministerial credentials behind, took their ball/bat with them, set up their own "Boy's Club" with hopes that $ would continue to flow then to them so they'd have some retirement funds later in life. Did any of them even "see" the wolf of John 10 that resulted in them all being scattered to the four winds? How awake, asleep, alert, aware were they really?

    Oh, with their continued pushing of their "Fear Religion" on their followers, they emphasize the law as strongly as others in the Book of Acts pushed a circumcision requirement on God's Church. WHy? That is their righteousness, which is not the righteousness of God (Romans 3:22), and it has absolutely nothing to do with God's Spirit; it is about SELF.

    "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:" Philippians 3:9

    When will those hirelings finally recognize their own self-righteousness, and realize that they do not have the righteousness which is of God by faith (i.e. a fruit from God by God's Spirit)? Will it be before the first resurrection, or will it be at/after the time of the second resurrection and the establishment of the Kingdom of God on earth?

    Time will tell...

    John

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