Church of God News is reporting how the United Church of God has "forced" Randy Stiver to "retire". Though, reading through the story below it doesn't make a lot of sense when it declares he was forced out of a job and then goes on to say he is still a pastor.
“Mr. Randy Stiver, long time minister, Council of Elders member and teacher at Ambassador Bible College, has been forced to retire from the ministry of the United Church of God. Mr. Stiver had been assigned to pastor UCG’s South Dakota congregations in the spring of 2021.
Some members of the eastern South Dakota congregations began a campaign of opposition to Mr. Stiver early on, messaging their grievances to the Church’s Operation Manager, Ministerial and Member Services Director Mr. Mark Welch and others. The opposition reached a peak shortly after the Feast that year when members of that group solicited support from other members for the purpose of presenting an organized unified front. The result was a visit to the eastern South Dakota congregations by Mr. Welch and Regional Director Mr. Mitch Knapp. Many members were unaware of what had been happening, but as those loyal to Mr. Stiver became aware of the situation they began to make their support known to home office leadership including then Church President, Mr. Victor Kubik.
The division over Mr. Stiver’s leadership continued through the spring holy days and into the summer of this year. Mr. Kubik was replaced as UCG President by Mr. Rick Shabi. Mr. Shabi was informed of the situation by those on both sides of the issue. He visited the churches this summer, giving a sermon to the combined congregations and holding an open bible study soliciting input from members. Two weeks later Mr. Shabi visited again this time accompanied by the current UCG Council President Len Martin. They delivered split sermons to the combined eastern South Dakota congregations urging reconciliation by all parties. Shortly after that it was announced that Mr. Stiver was retiring and being replaced by long time South Dakota elder Mr. Ken Skorseth. Several families within the congregations loyal to Mr. Stiver are now reassessing their relationship with UCG.
So what’s all the fuss about?
“A group of people didn’t like that Mr. Stiver was “old school” in his structure of the local congregation. They just didn’t like him being in charge from the start. They are more ecumenical and liberal (even Protestant if you will). They had been given positions of influence by the former Pastor and Mr. Stiver wanted to restructure the group. They were able to gain the “ear” of Mark Welch and then Mr. Shabi and Mr. Martin. Mr. Stiver wouldn’t budge on the administrative structure he wanted locally.
Mr. Stiver is a long-time minister going back to the 1970s. He was NOT introducing any new or controversial teaching or doctrines. He supports United’s “Fundamentals of Beliefs”. He has served on their Council of Elders and taught at Ambassador Bible College in Cincinnati. It’s a case of the “people rule”. Some would say “laodecian”. It wasn’t doctrinal, but personality based.
Shabi, Welch and Martin are part of a liberal movement in United and didn’t like Mr. Stiver being “old school”. They went along with the locals.
Bizarre as it sounds, it’s as simple as that.
Mr. Stiver is NOT totally retired. He has been given Rapid City, SD to pastor and a limited stipend. Rapid City was part of his original South Dakota circuit. Interestingly, they did not and do not have a problem with him. Just the influential group in Eastern South Dakota. United is experiencing a shortage of ministers. He is being monitored by Shabi and has to be careful about what he says and does.
United has many younger ministers in charge who don’t have a sound foundational understanding for what the “Church of God” is. Locals describe it as a “church home”. More local people throughout the congregations are becoming cognizant of United’s liberal ecumenical trend.
Mr. Skorseth, the new minister in charge, is being monitored closely by Shabi, Welch and Martin. He gets approval from them as far as the speaking schedule and has orders about how to proceed.
The situation in the South East South Dakota congregations remains unresolved. We’ll see.
Well you should know.
ReplyDeleteIs COG news website yours as well ?
The writer of this update seems to be offended by the idea that mere members would be allowed to have their grievances concerning a minister, whatever they might be, heard and investigated.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the fact that the "old school" structure resulted in situations where members of the congregation had no recourse if they had an overbearing or bullying minister, and ministers who played favorites among the congregation, rewarding sycophants with offices or positions, a few more checks and balances can only be a good idea.
It's also refreshing to hear of someone leading a Bible Study in such a way that invites input from the congregation, rather than just spoon feeding them information while they passively sit there. If you study the gospels and pay attention to how Jesus interacted with His disciples, he asked them questions that made them think, and answered their questions. While He clearly remained in the position of teacher, He didn't just sit them down and lecture them all the time, but interacted with them in discussions as well. These ideas aren't "liberal" as many like to paint anything unfamiliar to them. This is simply how better teachers function. They know information is better retained when those who are learning are asked to think about and interact with the material being presented.
The COG hierarchies have occasionally paid lip service to the idea of people being Bereans, but the minute someone asks a difficult question or brings up an issue, rank is pulled and obedience to "Church government" is the order of the day, and often the person is labeled as rebellious or a trouble maker. While there should be leadership among the body of Christ, Jesus never endorsed heavy handedness or bullying tactics and explicitly warned His disciples against using those methods among His flock. Matthew 20:25-28
Concerned Sister
It's a great pity it's all tippy tappy writing "Concerned Sister." Mere words being churned out at a trillion miles per hour no doubt. But the real author in real life not meaning a word of it.
DeleteWhat would the 'aliens' in spaceships think of all the hot air and no actions ?
I'm surprised to hear Mr Shabi described as being part of a liberal movement. That's not the impression I'd got from his sermons I've heard. The sense I've got is that he's in favour of the ministerial authority approach.
ReplyDeleteGranted, it's possible to misjudge a person just from what they say in a handful of sermons. Reality comes to light given sufficient time.
"Shabi, Welch and Martin are part of a liberal movement in United", I am yet to see any evidence of this, and if anything Shabi seems to be way too hard-line traditional.
ReplyDelete"More local people throughout the congregations are becoming cognizant of United’s liberal ecumenical trend"
ReplyDeleteShouldn't that be spelled COGnizant??
So how many people does UCG have in Southeast South Dakota?? 15 on a good day??
ReplyDeleteI had a member from his previous OH congregation tell me that he forbid men wearing "fun" socks, the more colorful ones that are popular today. I'm not calling him a scribe or Pharisee, but that definitely sounds like straining out a gnat to me.
ReplyDeletefun ties are apparently acceptable
DeleteI sincerely thought he was too boring to do anything of note lol
ReplyDeleteThere are men who should be in the ministry and men who should not. Although I cannot lend any credibility to this story, I know that while Mr. Stiver was out in Ohio, he was not feeding the sheep. A nice guy yes, but he was never in tune with what was going on with the brethren, the Church, or even what was going on in the world it seemed. Mr. Stiver was quite at home with speaking about himself, or the biblically historical things he was knowledgeable about. He would have some grand title of a sermon, and then go on to give you nothing if very little about what the sermon was supposed to be about. I thought it strange that he was not self-aware concerning this. Jesus said "feed MY sheep", not "feed your ego". All of that being said, I did like Randy as someone to talk to before and after services, but he was never feeding the sheep. That was not only my conclusion but some others' as well.
ReplyDeleteI feel like what has happened probably in all churches and throughout history in general, is that when men go to ordain other men to speak, there is little thought put into it other than this guy has the ability to speak in front of others. That's nice quality and all, but there is so much more to it. It seems from what I've seen, that there are men that I know that really have their finger on the pulse of things, but their ability to stand up and speak in front of a congregation would involve smelling salts every time.
"I had a member from his previous OH congregation tell me that he forbid men wearing "fun" socks, the more colorful ones that are popular today. "
ReplyDeleteIf I had some nosey minister tell me such a thing I would make damn sure I wore them the next Sabbath I was at church. No minister has any right to say any such thing. What a prat!
Just another symptom of a church that is falling apart. I would have assumed that the issue was doctrinal but apparently not. What's interesting is that the heads came down on the side of the people. If they would have done this for me 20 years ago, I might have still been a UCG member. See? As an elder you can be called a traditionalist but your actions may show that you are a liberal. It seems to me that Shabi et al decided to give in to the determined will of the dissidents in the hope of not losing any more soldiers, while believing that they were not compromising on God's Law at the time. What we don't know is the specific grievance. (The churches always keep these matters under wraps as if to think that they are benefiting the church, when in fact it is killing the church) If we had that, we'd be better able to make a judgment. The fact that both sides were retained means that they didn't consider it a major issue and that separation was the best solution for now.
ReplyDeleteThe heads came down to SD to preach reconciliation? They didn't do that for me 20 years ago. If they did, nothing came of it. It goes in one ear and out the other. As for the comments on Stiver, it didn't surprise me but so many elders in the church are like this, aloof, guarded, suspicious, unforgiving, abstracted, off-centered (when they should be gospel and salvation centered), as if they are guarding a post (their employment) rather than serving the sheep of Christ.
“United has many younger ministers in charge who don’t have a sound foundational understanding for what the 'Church of God' is.”
ReplyDeleteThe UCG had a problem early on with godless local bums wanting to become newly-credentialed, fake, UCG “ministers.” Godless types who had raised their own children to marry completely outside of the church wanted to rule corruptly over the church.