Remember Boys and Girls, TODAY is the day the GREAT Profit from Wadsworth says that his creature he calls "christ" is returning! Lets party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Second Chances
David C. Pack puts cats with nine lives to shame. The Pastor General of The Restored Church of God knows how to reinvent himself by dramatically updating the prophetic landscape without blushing. After setting over fifty dates for the return of Jesus Christ in the last twelve months, the False Prophet Energizer Bunny just keeps going and going.
And the brethren seem totally fine with that. You cannot help an addict until THEY decide to get sober.
The All-Believing Zealots proved Mr. Pack was right about April 1. All the enabling hirelings agreed.
April 1 failed.
The All-Believing Zealots proved Mr. Pack was right about April 5. All the enabling hirelings agreed.
April 5 failed.
The All-Believing Zealots proved Mr. Pack was right about April 7. All the enabling hirelings agreed.
April 7 failed.
The All-Believing Zealots proved Mr. Pack was right about April 12. All the enabling hirelings agreed.
April 12 failed.
I never graduated college, but I see a pattern emerging.
The Tammuz Cooking Table has once again found favor in Dave’s sight because he returned to powerfully sit on April 15, 2023, with “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 435).”
The Kingdom of God Arrives on Iyar 15
The Second Passover
May 5, 2023 @ 8:27 PM ET
Dave overshot May the Fourth Be With You by one day. But Cinco de Mayo is a good alternative because: nachos and margaritas.
Mr. Jeffrey Reed of Church of God International (CGI) got a chuckle when he accurately joked about this during our interview on Prove All Things last week.
Truth is stranger (and more predictable) than fiction, it seems.
David C. Pack frequently enjoys making light of his own fraud by utilizing gaslighting as an introduction.
Part 435 – April 15, 2023
@ 00:04 Good evening. Here we are, and I will give you my usual introduction. We’re still just fine. You will (perhaps) more than ever before, not doubt that after tonight.
If the folks in the audience had no doubts, they are beyond help at this point. The Apostle botched God’s arrival four times in April, and there are still two weeks left.
Bible surrogates were brought up again as Dave dusted off the False Prophet’s Toolkit.
@ 01:19 And so, the 24th [Abib] is ending. Therefore, it was a surrogate for another date.
Part 435 being delivered on Abib 24 is relevant somehow. David C. Pack is living “A Beautiful Mind.” He can find prophetic significance in the ant trail on the kitchen counter. I wonder how often he called his wife into the bathroom so she could marvel at his “personally important” doodie.
“Honey, take a look at this. Do you know what this means? Well, I do…”
Jim and Andy roshambo over who is more qualified to be the appropriate surrogate when that occurs in the office.
Dave made a long point about holy time being immovable. Wait for the punchline.
@ 03:22 Can Pentecost be anything other than kept after you count fifty from the Sabbath during Unleavened Bread? No. Can Trumpets be any other time but the first day of the civil year, Tishrei 1? No. Can Atonement be anything but nine days later? On the 10th day? No. Can you move…the Feast of Tabernacles to any other day? Or the Last Great Day? Or a new moon? Or, I guess, any other appointed time like the Passover? And the answer is no. And I said that you cannot move it.
This caused the needle in my head to screech across the record and crash on the floor. What?! Reality warbled, and I felt like I had entered The Twilight Zone. Which one of us suffers from a mental illness became a question. Perhaps my listening comprehension skills were more piss-poor than I knew.
David C. Pack said the Last Great Day cannot move during Part 435. Huh?
Flashback Part 433 – April 6, 2023
@ 02:16 If you bring that day forward and you count it, there is now, as of this moment, less than a week before the Great Day would end if you put it at the end of the Days of Unleavened Bread.
@ 13:49 But this would only be true if the Great Day were brought forward to follow Unleavened Bread before this day disappears forever…So, if God wanted to put the Last Great Day after the seven days in the fall to hide it for thousands of years till He could bring it forward and put it after the first seven days in the spring, which pictures the same thing, He could do that.
@ 14:53 But, all of that collapses if God didn’t show us at a wonderful dinner last night things I’d looked at in the past but couldn’t figure out that He’s gonna bring the Great Day six months forward and build the Kingdom of God.
These quotes suggest I am not crazy. If Dave was drawing a line between observance and fulfillment, he certainly never said so. The man would not get a Most Effective Speaker award for his Crystal Clear speech. He practically speaks in tongues half the time, even though the words appear to be in English.
But none of this matters now because the Last Great Day is no longer part of the picture. Perhaps this is like the clandestine reset of the 1335 of Daniel 12. Brethren need to read between the lines to get the whole story because focusing on it would only cause embarrassment and concern.
After the Days of Unleavened Bread neglected to show the world David C. Pack had been right this whole time, the second Passover became a second chance at redemption.
Part 435 – April 15, 2023
@ 01:43 Tonight is to see when this one-year kingdom comes. When it comes. I will present massive proof. I’ll just tell you. Massive, inarguable proof of when it comes. And it’s not identified in the Bible by any of those kinds of dates we described.
@ 04:46 So, Iyar 15 starts the second Passover. That’s a little under twenty days away. Iyar 15. And it’s a moed. We’re waiting for a moed. This year, it’s also a Sabbath…
@ 05:25 So, Iyar 15 is a Passover. It is the Passover. In fact, it’s an absolutely commanded Passover. That has to be kept by people who are either unclean or on a far journey.
@ 06:38 So, you may have thought (and I hope just with this first couple points) I’ve alleviated all doubt about whether the Passover is gone and it’s too late. It is not. In fact, I will show ya this was never ever going to be the Passover of Abib 15. That’s impossible.
Translation: I hope you already agree by taking my word for it since I have yet to crack open the Bible to prove anything. I have already defused doubts because I am projecting my desired outcome onto you.
“…this was never going to be the Passover of Abib 15.”
This is David C. Pack’s verbal manipulation at work. If you do not slow down, it can be missed. Which is what he wants. The brethren in the Main Hall cannot hit pause on Dave. But I can.
He tries to distance himself from his own significant points while, at the same time, altering what he actually taught. He was not preaching Passover. He preached the Night To Be Much Observed (Part 432), the Third Day of Unleavened Bread (Part 434), and the Seventh Day of Unleavened Bread (Part 431).
When they took the symbols that Passover evening, the Kingdom arrival was not on the docket. It has been the focus in years past, but not this time. Part 432 was clear about it being after that. In some places, the Bible refers to the Days of Unleavened Bread as seven days of Passover. Dave conveniently uses that when he needs to blur his words.
“The Passover of Abib 15” is the First Day of Unleavened Bread on April 6.
The Night To Be Much Observed (NTBMO) was on April 5 after sunset.
The Passover symbols were taken by RCG members on April 4 after sunset, which began Abib 14.
I call shenanigans on Dave for saying, "…this was never going to be the Passover of Abib 15," because he did not teach that. He is revising history and relabeling the NTBMO as Passover so he can sell the second Passover. He wants to slip from one Passover to another, not the NTBMO to the second Passover. Doing so makes all this easier to swallow.
During Parts 431, 432, and 434, he was very specific about NTBMO and the Days of Unleavened Bread. But as of Part 435, he groups those together as just “Passover” to suit his purpose.
“That’s impossible.”
If I had an assistant, I would task them with researching all the times David C. Pack declared something he just taught was "impossible" after the fact. But also, when he says how impossible something is, and turns around to proclaim it. Many voices come out of the same mouth.
Dave establishes the second Passover as a biblical fact, as if anyone in the room was unfamiliar with it. He connects Jesus Christ taking the symbols in the Kingdom of God directly to being on the second Passover.
@ 09:18 Now, let’s imagine. If Christ kept a different day than Iyar 15, what a terrible example to the world. It would be of disobedience to God’s law that brought death for anybody else. That's His backup plan. Absolutely valid.
@ 10:54 So, if Christ kept a different day, this would be God (or we might say more directly) Christ saying to the world, “Do as I say, not as I do. I can change the day. You can't. I can keep Wednesday and call it a Sabbath. You can't. I can do what Jeroboam did. He changed the Feast to the eighth month. He can't do it, but I could. And I choose to do it with the Passover.” So, I’m gonna tell you (absolutely) on God’s authority (and we’re just getting started), it is inarguable that Christ could keep the second one.
Hearing him speak this way makes me uncomfortable. David C. Pack draws lines that do not need to be made. The man habitually makes irreverent comments without shame or fear, just to make a point. We get it. The second Passover is a real Passover, and Jesus Christ could take the symbols that night.
Dave declaring "on God's authority" is his way of saying, “I swear to God.” The way he used it was pointless, but it certainly made things sound dramatic and serious.
Even if Jesus Christ returns and drinks wine in the Kingdom of God on Iyar 15, it will not mean David C. Pack was revealing the Mystery of God. Even a blind squirrel can find a nut.
@ 18:07 Now, I decided to go digging through the Bible for every kind of indicator that we had a full moon, and we had a Passover. Second Passover full moon.
Translation: Once Abib 21 failed, I had to go back to the drawing board with the Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy to drum up a new plan so I could keep my job. The longer I talk, the more convinced you will be.
Rather than God using the Bible to reveal knowledge, Dave dug for verses that proved his point. Theologians have been doing this for centuries. If you set a personal goal of proving a specific doctrine, you will find the verses that support your idea.
Trinitarians and Sunday-keepers love quoting the Bible. David C. Pack has adopted their methodology. The Holy Spirit moving someone into all truth has gone the way of the dinosaurs ever since prophesying was altered to mean “just teaching what the Bible says.”
David C. Pack could not sit on being a fraud. He entered the Bible Scooby-Doo Infinite Hallway going in one door and coming out another. A new moon. A full moon. One month. One year. The first day. The fifteenth day. A Sabbath. Not a Sabbath. The Passover. The Second Passover.
This is why David C. Pack will never stop. The Bible provides unlimited resources so he can continue to reconfigure prophetic theories for the next twenty years. The second Passover is his second chance to preserve some of his material and hold on to the illusion he has been on to something special the last few weeks.
Iyar 15 is on May 6. The Hebrew day begins at sunset the night before. This means the second Passover starts on May 5. But, something else world-eventy happens that weekend, and Dave is tickled pink about it.
@ 32:51 We serve the right God. Another little detail. The Kingdom to Israel would begin on May 6th.Actually, our time late on the 5th. Or maybe early on the 5th. Curious little detail. King Charles is supposta be coronated within hours. It will be the most-watched event in the history of the world, and it's gonna get chopped short. Remember? Remember Ezekiel 21:24-27? It's gonna get cut, chopped short right before he ever puts a crown on. You can’t make that up. Little did we realize, we would get all the way to the 5th here, which is the 6th of May, which of course, is the 15th of Iyar, and he would never be crowned.
Since Queen Elizabeth II died on September 8, 2022, Dave has repeated how nobody would be crowned after her. I never spotlighted that because it felt like a nothingburger, and there were bigger fish to fry with his goofy Series.
His previous offerings of keen insight into world news have not panned out thus far.
Flashback Part 276 – December 26, 2020
@ 33:29 And I will submit to you, Joe Biden will never serve a day in office.
Dave’s Cinco de Mayo Kingdom is now tied to the same weekend as the English coronation. Guess who will be served two slices of humble pie that weekend.
Part 435 – April 15, 2023
@ 1:01:29 If you think you can get outta this date, have at it. You can’t get outta the date. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of reasons you can’t get outta the year, but you absolutely cannot get out of the date, or you just blow this message up. Just tear it all up.
May 6 at 8:28 PM ET is when you can safely tear all this up, RCG brethren. This clip will be posted on YouTube and Facebook to commemorate the moment.
It will be released to coincide if Dave slinks away from Iyar 15 before that. His dramatic mock-tearing of his notes should not be missed.
This year has been an interesting ride so far. Purim, April Fools’ Day, and Cinco de Mayo. Reserve a slot on your calendar for Flag Day.
On May 5, open a tab at El Torito so you can enjoy those Cadillac Margaritas before the bill comes after 8:27 PM ET. My California friends will be making the most out of Happy Hour.
Part 435 was the second sitting of 2023. David C. Pack found a second chance in the second Passover for the second coming of Jesus Christ.
The problem with proclaiming a date for the return of Jesus Christ is that you only get one shot. That was on Elul 24 in 2013. The Bible does not offer false prophets a do-over.
David C. Pack is forever disqualified. There are no second chances for him.
Flashback Part 429 – March 15, 2023
@ 28:31 The seven days can’t change. Abib cannot change. You know, the chag that closes Abib cannot change. There’s no way we’ve got this wrong. It’s impossible that it’s wrong.
Marc Cebrian
See: Second Chances
Well, I think most of us can finally understand! I'm sure I wasn't the only one who always wondered why Jesus had a Mexican name! A Cinco de Mayo parousia makes perfect sense. Just watch Dave very carefully is all! If he turns the water into tequila, he may try to proclaim a little something we've been expecting.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm a little slow but I get it, if instead of turning water into wine - water into tequila and Sinko Dave instead of Stinko Dave. But remember he said he doesn't do miracles anymore, anymore, yet...
Delete100% Wrong.. each time, every time, all the time, guaranteed. I tell you the man is 100% reliable. Too bad we can't place bets in Vegas on this "prophet", or should I say "profit" ...
ReplyDeleteThey have the throne-with-the-stone ready!
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't I make the connection?
Because I'm not an Apostle..
..on an Apostlic salary..
..like HWA's - $1m / yr.
Dave is nacho average false prophet. I believe May 5th will be another Sinko de Dave-o. His chips will definitely be down again.
ReplyDeleteWhat the hellfire? Lunacy. Mental illness on steroids. Is there no one...no one, who loves him enough to tell him the truth and get him help? Some "christians" you have gathered around you Dave.
ReplyDeleteIN LIGHT OF DAVEY"S CINCO DE MAYO PREDICTION...
ReplyDeleteWhat will Pack say when his prediction doesn't come true..." I don’t want to taco bout it."
What do you call it at Wadsworth when Pack fails again ..."A Brrrr-rito."
Pack is into fine art and Mexican food... He is really Artsy-Fartsy!
Going to Pack's church ... Makes Juan spiritually weak!
Dave's motto:
ReplyDeleteIf you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with B.S.
Dave needs to remain the center of attention. So it will just keep on going and going. Look at all the people on banned that he has following him.
ReplyDeleteNumbers 9:11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
ReplyDeleteShock: Dave is off by one day. Whoda b'lieve it
If it's May 5th, then why did he recently ask his followers to send in the "hundreds of thousands" of dollars that some of his followers are sitting on?
ReplyDeleteGod tells us we can recognize the season, never the day or hour. God NEVER gives the dates & times to the enemy and how it will happen (example parting of the Red Sea, drawing Pharoah's army into it, & closing the Red Sea over their army) just like militaries never hand their plan plan to the enemy or else Duh!!!
ReplyDeletethe enemy wouldn't walk in the trap or else have time to act it. False prophets give themselves away so easily. No hint of a connection relationship with Holy Spirit out counselor. How can anyone gives these false prophets the time of day?
These cult leaders have no relationship with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, no prayer life. Their rotten fruit of false prophecies are all over the ground. Anyone still listening to these false prophets are hurting their families, relationships, finances. They desperately need prayer to break free from the spider web, python, and leviathan.
ReplyDeleteWhat Mr. Pack really needs is Thursday, May 4 - the U.S. National Day of Prayer.
ReplyDeleteHear that, everybody? Dave has just invited everyone named Jesus to the Wadsworth compound for some delicious carne asada tacos!
ReplyDeleteDave wrote: "...You can’t make that up..."
ReplyDelete******
Well, we all may thank God for that; however, Dave, like some "angel of light" continues to strive and dazzle us on his talent to seemingly forever "make that up!"
John
And time will tell...
1.32 pm
ReplyDeleteDave's members need to pray, AND daily study their bibles, meditate on what they learn and fast. Which all requires effort, which in view is their main problem.
Is there no one...who loves him enough to tell him the truth and get him help? Some "christians" you have gathered around you Dave.
ReplyDeleteSo, go to Wadsworth and tell him. Or are you another false Christian? All lip service and no action.
Dave's members need to pray, AND daily study their bibles, meditate on what they learn and fast. Which all requires effort, which in view is their main problem.
ReplyDeleteActually, the bible is their problem. They have been doing all of that and they are still totally deluded.
David pack is God's ons true apostle of our time.
ReplyDeleteEverything is B.S.. If anyone wants proof that the COGs know exactly nothing about history (and therefore about the "fulfillment of prophecy") here it is:
ReplyDeletehttps://odysee.com/@gtk:4/stalinswar:d
Oodles of information along similar lines has been compiled. Oodles upon oodles.
Dave is totally deluded. People are totally deluded. Everything is a pack of lies, assumptions, misconceptions, lies, and more lies. Everything. Grow up and wake up.
The fertile imaginations of HWA were a very powerful modifier, and they are pervasive to this day, and even more extreme for the desperate people who have invested in them. I have no idea whatsoever why everyone, including my own parents, grandmother, aunt, and several siblings did not realize that when you tell people in the name of Jesus Christ that He will return in 1975, you only get one chance. If you get it wrong, you just debunked yourself, permanently and forever. There is no backpedaling, or lying to insist that you never set dates. It's poof! Game over.
ReplyDeleteThese spiritual Charlie Keatings and Bernie Madoffs are continuing to mislead those who invest their lives in them, defrauding them of their cash and any sort of good life, only caring that they themselves get to win by dying with the most toys. The willfully ignorant allow them to persist in this.
Has anyone ever been able to confront these self anointed "apostles" on their prophetic failures or false claims face to face? I can see HWA , Flurry or Pack having a meltdown & I remember Roderick blowing up about his being treated with "Disrespect" during his issues with the Global Board prior to forming his own LCG & proceeding to having some his rivals "Marked"
ReplyDeleteHerbert Armstrong would’ve thrown out of the church Bobby Thiel, Dave Pack, and Gerald Flurry. Richard
DeleteWhen fall rolls around he can said Jesus will come on Halloween and hand out candy to trick or treaters
ReplyDeleteWill Jesus return before or after a Tequila Sunrise?
ReplyDelete1:54,
ReplyDeleteTo be effective, you would want such a confrontation to be very public, and by a group. Anyone doing it privately during a counselling session would be run over rough shod, and pretty much told that they were rebellious, in the bonds of Satan, compared to Korah, and on their way to the Lake of Fire for their disrespect. Any minister of any rank at all would make this a one way conversation, not even considering the validity of the soon to be ex-member's perspective.
When I left original WCG, I never spoke with or counselled with any of these cretins, because most likely they would have needed to call the police. I took the peaceful way out, feeling that they did not even deserve my giving notice. By that point, I knew that they were nothing. Also, they would have taken any remarks I happened to make as being total justification for my expulsion. You cannot reason with cult zombies.
ReplyDeleteAnon, Wednesday, April 19, 2023 at 1:54:00 AM PDT,..wrote:
"...Has anyone ever been able to confront these self anointed "apostles" on their prophetic failures or false claims face to face? I can see HWA , Flurry or Pack having a meltdown & I remember Roderick blowing up about his being treated with "Disrespect" during his issues with the Global Board prior to forming his own LCG & proceeding to having some his rivals "Marked"..."
******
And to think, like so many, they all looked forward to a "very soon" to return "second coming" of Jesus to reign on planet earth with a bunch of little helpers for 1,ooo years
It is as much in error as to look for the very soon arrival of 10 kings/nations.
Neither will occur on earth until after Satan exits the 1,000 year pit-stop, but so what?
Who cares if Jesus Christ actually came to earth for a second coming after His murder, death of a few days, resurrection, and hung around for only 40 days?
Oh, 2 witnesses will one day be evident, Satan will exit the pit, 10 kings/nations will exist as predicted, and Jesus will be on earth and the K/G on earth will be esrablished, but when?
Time will tell...
John
... you only get one chance. If you get it wrong, you just debunked yourself, permanently and forever. There is no backpedaling, or lying to insist that you never set dates. It's poof! Game over.
ReplyDeleteWhich is how we know Jesus was a false prophet. He predicted the kingdom would come in power during the lifetime of some of those who were standing there at the time.
Jesus' Kingdom did come in power evidenced by signs, wonders, & miracles which are still going on today. It never stopped. It has continued to increase since His coming.
DeleteAnon, Friday, April 21, 2023 at 2:03:00 PM PDT, wrote:
ReplyDelete"Jesus' Kingdom did come in power evidenced by signs, wonders, & miracles which are still going on today. It never stopped. It has continued to increase since His coming..."
******
Anon, I do not know how you evidenced all of those wonderful things supposedly going on, but let us know when you see evidence of Christ coming in glory as indicated below:
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and [in his] Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Will Jesus Christ yet come in the glory that He mentioned?
Time will tell...
John
To: 7:54
DeleteWhen Jesus began His 3 year ministry with the miracles, signs & wonders & when at Pentecost the disciples along with many Jews, received the baptism of the Holy Spirit drunk in (slain in the spirit falling out under the weight of His Glory) obviously the king and the kingdom go together. Jesus' kingdom has continued to increase.
Don't you read the whole Bible??? Where have you been all these years.? There have been in the past and are right now generals of the faith in real healing ministries where the blind see, deaf ears are opened, the dead are raised, with so many testimonies & videos. God gets the Glory. I am stunned at the ignorance. You are hiding under a rock to be so clueless. Many people are filled with the Holy Spirit speaking in tongues. Where have you been? You kicked Holy Spirit out of the church so he can't teach you. Holy Spirit has a personality , a total separate being from God and Jesus, not an impersonal force.. The 3 work together. Azusa Street Revival, Katheryn Kuhlman, Smith Wigglesworth,
Charles & Francis Hunter, Charles Capps, Marilyn Hickey Ministries. I hardly named any. There are so many more.
OK, kiddy kiddies! Let's play a little game. We'll set back the clock and pretend that this is Dave's first prophecy. And, he gets one strike and he's out!
ReplyDeleteIf sunset comes, and the Kingdom is not here, everybody leaves the RCG in unison. Time to hold Deceitful Dave accountable. So, for those of you who didn't throw away all your rock music collection, fire up your primary listening device and put on the Who's "Won't Get Fooled Again!" Or download it. Let it be the anthem for Dave's demise. Who'll feed the horses, you ask? They deserve their freedom, too! Open up the barn door at sunset and smack em all on the ass. Goodbye, Mr. Ed! So long, Dave. G'night Gracie, and Mrs. Kalabash wherever you are!
To Anon @ 8:13. In response to your thoughtful, Christian like comment, I did. About 9-10 months ago, I sent an email to Dave, using my real name, address, email and phone number. I am sure his secretary or assistant has a record of it and my claim can be verified. I was honest and suggested he might need some medical/psychological counseling. I heeded the Word of God, and corresponded privately with someone I believe is ill and needs help.
ReplyDeleteIf that makes me a fake Christian, I shudder to think what some would label you.
Will Jesus Christ yet come in the glory that He mentioned? Time will tell...
ReplyDeleteThe prophecy of Jesus failed to arrive on time. So time did tell. The time passed and it proved that Jesus was a failed prophet.
Time will not tell for those who ignore what Jesus actually said. His followers will keep ignoring his failed prophecy and just keep waiting. They will "spiritualize it away."
Gee, Dave! Now you've burned yourself with the Chicanos. Arabs are gone, because it didn't happen during Ramadan. Burned yourself with the Jews because it didn't happen on any of the holy days from Torah! And, ghastly! You even struck out with the fools because no show on April 1, either. No luck with the Irish on St. Patrick's Day! I think you alluded to December 25, but you never mentioned Kwansaa! So, maybe you still have a chance with the blacks, but black people are pretty savy and saw what you did with everyone else's holidays, so I wouldn't count on that at all!
ReplyDeleteThings aren't looking too good for you on this prophet gig, Dave! Sad thing is, this is actually your day job! So, in this case I'm going to depart from conventional wisdom to advise that you'd better quit your day job. It's just not working out for you!
It's 6th May, Charles was crowned, no major sign of the Kingdom of God being here yet. It will come, but we are some way off yet.
ReplyDeleteWell, I guess we all know now why Pack was not invited to the Coronation!
ReplyDeleteI cannot let the above comments go without clarifying the subject of Jesus saying that some here will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Glory...
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ is not a failed prophet. It is blasphemous to say that. I think many tend to only see things in the physical realm. This is not talking about physical death, but spiritual death. What He was explaining was that some who heard His message and believed in Him will become born again believers and not suffer the second death. They will not be condemned when they die only to later be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Jesus teaches us that when we are born again, NOW, TODAY, even though our body will die, our spirits will never die and remain with Him forevermore. Born again believers have had our spirits brought to life, in Jesus, thus death will not come to us. If we die as unregenerated, unbelievers, our spirits which are dead the moment be were born because of Adam and Eve, will continue in that dead state forevermore. Because some will not believe, because some think they will have another opportunity after death to accept Jesus, when in fact, that is simply untrue, they are destined for the second death.
So, as simply as I can explain it, we are all born with dead spirits that need to be made alive, if we believe in the finished Atonement of Jesus on the cross, our spirits are born again. Though our body might physically die, our spirit has come to life and we go to be with God immediately and will never taste death. For those who do not believe or have the wrong Jesus and the wrong Gospel, their spirits are UN regenerated and when their body dies, their spirit will continue as dead as it was when they came out of the womb and will suffer the second death. Eternal separation and punishing for eternity.
This had nothing whatsoever to do with prophecy. This is hugely important, so I just wanted to clarify that for anyone who has wondered what those verses mean. Disagree if you like, but that is what Jesus was telling the crowd he was addressing, in context.
... but black people are pretty savy ...
ReplyDeleteWhere is the evidence for that?
Ah, not the brightest lightbulb, I see, 8:51. You should shed the racist scales from your eyes, open wide, and you'll see the evidence all around you! It must really suck for you to have to get up every morning and to strengthen your resolve to remain willfully ignorant!
ReplyDeleteJesus saying that some here will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Glory...
ReplyDeleteIf it refers to the second death, then it says that they will die the second death when he returns.
But isn't the second death supposed to be at the end of the millennium when they are thrown into the lake of fire?
Also, they have to be alive when he returns, or they would not see him return. Since they died 2000 years ago, they won't be alive when he returns.
You need to review the ExRCG posts of April 29. Mr. Pack walked back from that date in late April.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAnon, Saturday, May 6, 2023 at 12:48:00 PM PDT wrote:
"Jesus saying that some here will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Glory...
If it refers to the second death, then it says that they will die the second death when he returns.
But isn't the second death supposed to be at the end of the millennium when they are thrown into the lake of fire?
Also, they have to be alive when he returns, or they would not see him return. Since they died 2000 years ago, they won't be alive when he returns."
******
FWIIW,
Hebrews 9:27 says:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:"
Possible hint of second death is for Satan and his angels: Matthew 25:41, 46; 2 Peter 2:12, etc.
Therefore, isn't the second death appointed for others, and not humans?
Time will tell...
John
Second death = lake of fire
ReplyDeleteRev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
“The idea of a “second death” assumes that everyone experiences a “first death”... to die a second time is to be disqualified from eternal life which is yet to come” (Robert W. Wall, Revelation, NIBC, p.74).
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
“In Rev 20:14 it [the second death] is identified as the lake of fire...” (Robert H. Mounce, The Book of Revelation, NICNT, Revised, p.77).
"The second death is defined in 20:14 and 21:8 as being cast into the lake of fire..." (Robert H. Mounce, The Book of Revelation, NICNT, Revised, p.370).
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
“The second death is defined in 21:8 as ‘the lake that burns with fire and brimstone’ ” (G.R. Beasley-Murray, The Revelation, NBC, p.1284).
“... in 21:8 [ the second death is identified] as the final lot of “the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile,” etc. Over the faithful, who share in the first resurrection, it has no power (20:6)” (Robert H. Mounce, The Book of Revelation, NICNT, Revised, p.77).
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet... These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
"... thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone (20) - John's symbol for ‘the second death' (cf. 20:14; 21:8)" (F.F. Bruce, The Revelation to John, PBC, Student Edition, p.1707).
"The second death ... is a euphemism for the fate of those who do not share in the eschatological blessing of eternal life (cf. 2:11; 20:14)... What their destiny is in objective terms, however, we can only imagine, for John writes "with parables and symbols which point to ideas beyond their verbal expression" (Beasley Murray, Revelation, p.200)" (Robert W. Wall, Revelation, NIBC, p.239).
Part 1
ReplyDeleteWhat will some standing here see?
Mt 16:28 ... There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming [erchomai] in his kingdom.
Lk 9:27 ... there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Mk 9:1 ... That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come [erchomai] with power.
"... R. Bartelmus recognizes the problem of imposing modern Western standards of logic on ancient literature [Ez. 37, 1-14 ZAW 97 (1985) 368]" (Daniel I. Block, Ezekiel 25-48, NICOT, p.371).
One of the difficulties in understanding the Bible is that it is ancient-near Eastern literature, that is, it is written in the thought forms of the time. Especially challenging is the midrashic method of exegesis, which involves the nonliteral elaborations of biblical texts.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
"[John] is the only New Testament author who employs the word ‘Antichrist'. He also assumes that his readers are familiar with the expectation of his coming: you have heard that the antichrist is coming'. But then he boldly reinterprets the coming of Antichrist it terms of the contemporary activity of false teachers: ‘even now many antichrists have come'. What facilitates their identification is their denial of the incarnation...
"This process of reinterpretation and re-application within Scripture itself, from Daniel through Jesus to Paul and John, gives an important flexibility to our understanding..." (John R.W. Stott, The Message of Thessalonians, BST, p.165).
In his letter John takes a future fulfillment of an expectation and reinterprets it as a present reality.
Mt 3:2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near [eggizo].”
Mt 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come [phthano] unto you.
“John [the Baptist] says it has now drawn “near,” the same message preached by Jesus (4:17) and his disciples 10:7). It is possible, but not certain, the verb has the same force as ephthasen in 12:28. There Jesus unambiguously affirms that the kingdom "has come.” That passage makes it clear that it is the exercise of God's saving sovereignty or reign that has dawned. The ambiguous "is near" (3:2); 4:17), coupled with the dynamic sense of "kingdom," prepares us for a constant theme: The kingdom came with Jesus and his preaching and miracles ... and it will come at the end of the age...
“Later Jesus declared that his work testified the kingdom had come (12:28), even though he frequently spoke of the kingdom as something to be inherited when the Son of Man comes in his glory...” (D. A. Carson, Matthew, EBC, Vol.8, p.101).
It is suggested that Christ “coming in his kingdom” in 16:28 will have a contemporary reality for “some standing there”.
Lk 9:27 ... there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
“Taste of death surely means ‘die’, BUT IT IS NOT CLEAR WHAT THE COMING OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD MEANS IN THIS CONTEXT. Some maintain that Jesus is referring to the parousia and that he was mistaken. But this does not fit the language used.
Part 2
ReplyDelete“If some will not die before (or ‘until’, as GNB heos an) the event in question, the implication SEEMS TO BE that they will die after it, which is impossible of the parousia. But in any case this line is too simple. Plummer notes seven possible interpretations of the words: the transfiguration, the resurrection and ascension, Pentecost, the spread of Christianity, the internal development of the gospel, the destruction of Jerusalem and the second advent. He holds the preference to some standing here means that some (viz. those present on that particular occasion) has special privilege as opposed to people in general. This rules out all of the seven except the transfiguration and the destruction of Jerusalem, of which Plummer prefers the latter. He may be right, for that coming in judgment suits the words as well as any. But there are many ways in which the kingdom comes and there is much to be said, for the view that Jesus is referring to the critical time of the crucifixion, resurrection and the coming of the Spirit. The saying is complex, and without further information it is impossible to be sure of the precise meaning intended” (Leon Morris, Luke, TNTC, pp.189-90).
Highlights of Donald Carson’s and William Lane’s arguments for their different views are presented below:
Mt 16:28 ... There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
“It seems best to take 16:28 as having a more general reference - viz., not referring simply to the Resurrection, to Pentecost, or the like, but to the manifestation of Christ’s kingly reign exhibited after the Resurrection in a host of ways, not least of them being the multiplication of disciples and the mission to the Gentiles. Some of those standing there would live to see Jesus’ Gospel proclaimed throughout the Roman Empire and a rich “harvest” (cf. 9:37-38) of converts reaped for Jesus Messiah. This best suits the flexibility of the “kingdom” concept in the synoptic Gospels, (see on 3:2; 10:23; 12:28) and the present context....
“This periscope contains an important chiasm:
[A] v.24: challenge to take up the cross and follows Christ in the immediate future
[B] v.25: incentive - reward and punishment at the Parousia
[C] v.36: central weighing of values
[B1]: incentive - reward and punishment at the Parousia
[A1] promise of witnessing the kingdom power of Jesus in the immediate future
[Col 4:11 Jesus, who is called Justus, also sends greetings. These are the only Jews among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God, and they have proved a comfort to me].
“But if the evidence of the kingdom is seen in the church, this does not mean that the church and the kingdom are to be identified. Rather, at this point in salvation history it is the power of the kingdom working through Jesus’ disciples that calls the church into being... Moreover, as Brower (pp.32ff) points out, the larger context also offers important insights. Though the Transfiguration is not the fulfillment of v.28, it is related to it in an important way. Sections that stress suffering and the Cross (16:21-28; 17:9-13) envelop the Transfiguration and bracket this clearest manifestation of divine glory by suffering. The way to glory is the way of the Cross; and the reign of the Son of Man which “some standing here” we see before they “taste death,” will be inaugurated by the Cross” (D. A. Carson, Matthew, EBC, Vol.8, p.382).
Part 3
ReplyDeleteMk 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come [erchomai] with power [dunamis].
Mk 8:35b but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
“In context, Jesus’ prophecy is a word of comfort addressed to those who heed his call to follow him in spite of the cost involved. The Semitism “taste of death” alludes to the harsh reality of violent death contemplated in 8:35b; men who are faithful to Jesus and the gospel will lose their lives. But they are given the assurance that this anomalous situation is for a determined period of time and they shall see an open manifestation of God’s sovereignty “with power”...
Mk 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mk 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
“It has been shown that in the Gospel of Mark the Kingdom of God and the person of Jesus are so integrally bound together as to be inseparable. This has important bearing on ch. 9:1... It refers to an event which provides an open manifestation of Jesus’ dignity... The function of Ch. 9:1, with its reference to “the Kingdom come with power,” is to provided certainty that the Son of Man will indeed come with glory, and that those who now share his sufferings will share in his exaltation...
“The immediate sequel to Jesus’ solemn promise is the account of the transfiguration (Ch. 9:2-8). This indicates that Mark understood Jesus’ statement to refer to this moment of transcendent glory conceived as an enthronement and an anticipation of the glory which is to come.
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power [dunamis] and coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
“It is instructive to compare II Peter 1:16-18, which speaks of “the power and the parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Peter made known to his churches the power that was to be revealed at Jesus’ coming in terms of the glory which had been revealed in the transfiguration. This expresses precisely the relationship between Ch. 8:38 (parousia) and Ch. 9:1 (transfiguration). The transfiguration was a momentary, but real (and witnessed) manifestation of Jesus’ sovereign power which pointed beyond itself to the parousia, when he will come “with power and glory” (Ch 13:26)...
Mk 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
Mk 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh [erchomai] in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
“The transfiguration constituted a warning to all others that the ambiguity which permits the humiliation of Jesus and of those faithful to him will be resolved in the decisive intervention of God promised in Ch. 8:38” (William L. Lane, The Gospel of Mark, NICNT, pp.312-14).
Why is Dave Pack doing a Hitler salute in one of those YouTube thumbnails?
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