UCG President Rick Shabi made a telling comment about Jesus the other day that indicates the sad state of affairs not only in UCG but in all COG's. He states they the church needs an annual reminder about him.
Jesus gets left on the back burner most of the time or is not even mentioned for weeks on end. Satan reigns supreme, the Kingdom of God follows close behind, and then the law. Jesus is usually relegated to the fourth string and left sitting on the sidelines till the next Passover as more important topics are discussed, like sex, hair lengths, church logos, proper dress, proper foods, and the law. Lots of law. Grace, mercy, sanctification, justification, not so much.
I hope that the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread were deeply meaningful and spiritually beneficial for you. We need the annual reminder God gives us each year of the salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ.
One thing Christians of the world understands is that they need Christ every day, not annually. But then, they are unconverted, so know no better.
The UCG is full of so many godless people behaving so badly that it would be an embarrassment to take anyone there.
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly what I do not grasp about the COGs and legalistic cults like SDAs, et al. For people who preach about the Kingdom all the time (which is NOT the Gospel of our salvation), how do they miss the most important point? That nobody will even see the Kingdom UNLESS they are born again. That New birth is ONLY in Jesus, NOW, not future. That is the Gospel Christians have understood and preached for almost 2000 years now.
ReplyDeleteThe COGs have it totally backwards. They preach a future salvation by law keeping and works and the Kingdom, all APART from Jesus. They will never be saved to live in that Kingdom until they first preach about that inconvenient dude that embarrasses them well enough and often enough for members to see that only through Jesus death, burial and resurrection is anybody saved and welcomed into the long sought after Kingdom of God. They miss that to us Christians, Jesus is EVERYTHING. The fulfillment of the Old Covenant, the fulfillment of every feast, festival, holy day and Sabbath, the perfect keeper of the law, the One who died in our place to pay our sin debt, the One who is greater than the Temple and is every last stick of furniture contained in it, a way better promise, a better Covenant and a better priest. See the entirety of the Book of Hebrews, which is a compare and contrast of Old Testament law vs. New Testament grace. I could not get out of bed in the morning if I did not belong to Jesus. He is EVERYTHING to me.
They cannot treat the Father as the CEO and Jesus as the lesser VP of paperclips and the Holy Spirit as a big ? and MIA! This is heartbreaking and infuriating at the same time.
Mike James of CGI recently wrote a post entitled "A Real Christian." He said: "Many Christians today believe you are a Christian if you believe that Jesus lived and died for us and rose from the dead. Scriptures cited for this idea are Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 2:2, and John 3:16. Now let me be clear, I agree with these scriptures, but what does it mean to believe in someone or something?"
ReplyDeleteHe concluded: "We in the CGI believe in observing the Sabbath, Holy Days, and God's law; we don't believe we are conscious in death, and so on. Does what you believe as doctrine matter in determining if you are a Christian or not? Well, I guess it does when you look at Scripture."
https://www.cgi.org/news-and-events/2023/4/18/a-real-christian
In the ACOGs, it is clear Jesus is a sideshow! As you suggested in your post, it's all about scrupulous obedience to Torah and the MESSAGE of the Kingdom of God (which usually means reading current events into prophecy).
The snippy post overlooks the fact that the mass of Christiandom thinks about the resurrection on Easter, or the birth of Jesus at Xmas time, or that people overemphasize a birthday or wedding anniversary.
ReplyDeleteAn anniversary or birthday, does not mean that you LOVE LESS the people on the other days of the year. Same applies here in regards to the Passover and other Holy Days. The post way over generalizes and blanket statements COG members by saying "Satan reigns supreme, the Kingdom of God follows close behind, and then the law. Jesus is usually relegated to the fourth string"
The statement is such a broad and prejudicial stroke, that is on the level of bigotry and parti pris. There is much to pick on in the COG movement, but to imply non conversion in a blanket manner like the post did, is immature and small minded. I, along with many others who are Sabbath observant, Holy Day keeping , beef hot dog eating Christians, think on Jesus every single day, and study his life and actions regularly.
And then come on this anti-God blog to mock all Tonto..... but of course you are the bestest, most honest, highest christian in the land.
DeleteUh, isn't this why mainstream Christians, using the primacy of Peter, adapted such reminders as Christmas, Easter, and Sunday??? Even the most recalcitrant Armstrongites would have to admit that on those particular days, discussion of Jesus peaks. HWA, using the historically debunked writings of Alexander Hislop, branded those days as pagan. You can often know by something's absence, how important that thing actually is or was, and it seems that it might finally be dawning on Rick.
ReplyDeleteWhen one attempts to reinvent the wheel, one must be very careful to retain the functionality of the wheel! HWA's wheel was never as functional as that of mainstream Christians. Downplaying Jesus and the New Testament, reducing the Holy Spirit to some sort of mindless power or energy, and throwing grace in the garbage is responsible for the religious dystopia in which we were forced to live. Why even "the Germans" were a more real power to us all!
Lots of law. Grace, mercy, sanctification, justification, not so much.
ReplyDeleteYou have to preach about the law because that's the part some people like to forget about.
Jesus is the man behind the curtain? I thought it was the Wizard of Oz.
ReplyDeleteUCG President Rick Shabi ...
ReplyDeleteHe was voted in?
Also, boys and girls......."in God's church........The Feast (FOT) begins that night, so proper observance of the Feast means that you are at the location of the Feast, checked in to your hotel, and ready for the first holy convocation of the Feast that begins that Friday night".........Rick Shabi, UCG website/Update/4-27-2023.
ReplyDeleteIs baking soda toothpaste OK to use?
ReplyDeleteRick Shabi wrote: "...I hope that the Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread were deeply meaningful and spiritually beneficial for you. We need the annual reminder God gives us each year of the salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ..."
******
When will the likes of Rick, Doug Winnail, Jim Franks, Flurry, Pack, Weinland, et al wake up and finally realize that Jesus Christ spoke truth when He said the following?
John 3:16:"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
God sent not His Son just to save only these hirelings of the former WCG, but the world!
Also, when will these hirelings and their followers learn that neither did God send a committee to save anyone? Oh, they all want their part to do? What part is that? To somehow impress God about something going on in their lives? They all continue to have sin in their lives, so do they really think they deserve something more/less than death?
So, will they "save themSELVES," or will they eventually come to acknowledge that God the Father "...sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved?"
Okay, Rick did say: "...God gives us each year of the salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ..." Rick acknowledges Jesus Christ, but what does Rick mean when He writes "God?" Is that God the Father, the God of the Old Testament (Acts 3:13), or does he have another God in mind. It still is idolatry to have anything/anyone else in place of God the Father. Even Jesus Christ acknowledged that His God is our God, and our Father.
Incidentally, Passover and the Days of Unleavened bread show us how God, by the power of His Spirit, through Jesus Christ intends to purge the world of its sins and save all mankind, and subsequently destroy Satan and his angels, but...
Time will tell...
John
Anyone who knows Rick or heard any of his great sermons, knows he’s Christ centered and is leading United in that direction. His focus is also preaching the hope of the Kingdom of God and how the world will be transformed by replicating the commitment of selfless love.
ReplyDeleteThere are some hypocrites at UCG, but at least they are spreading the true gospel of God's kingdom.
ReplyDeleteJohn
ReplyDeleteThe holy spirit does not purge us of our sins. Rather we personally purge our sins from our lives. Your point of view is today's big government mindset projected into the bible. You obviously have a problem with self responsibility. No John, God will not do everything for you.
Anon534,
DeleteI presume John, as a Christian, leads an honorable life. I know many Christians that have the same belief as John and they too live honorable, generous lives willingly sacrificing for the good of others…moreso than all those I know in the cogs.
Yet, you presume Christians that have this belief that the Lord does the cleansing are just trying to live in sin…yet instead they do not and live honorable and generous Christian lives.
Could it be that you don’t fully understand the redeeming and reforming power of Christ and faith in Him? I am not making this assumption but I do ask you this due to your presumption about Christians with this belief. The facts don’t bear out your presumption, so you need to ask why and how your thoughts on the matter are not borne out.
God bless.
Jesus demonstrated how the kingdom operates with His Words. We toss out words all day long good or bad or both. They are planted, and we end up with a harvest. If we complain, we remain. If we praise, we are raised.
ReplyDeleteWe must speak truth in love. We are not to "Be Nice.". "Nice" is one of the devil's favorite words. Nice is not a fruit of the spirit.
Goodness, and gentleness are
Tonto 7:51 AM 4/28
ReplyDeleteWell said! I was wondering if anyone would pull him up on this ridiculous post so thank you Tonto for doing so and more articulately than I ever could have!
Anon 7:53 AM 4/28
My view is that Western Xians in the first couple of centuries after Christ’s ascension apostasized (as is evidenced by the Quartodeciman controversy) and were growing hostile of the Jews for various—even understandable—reasons at the time for which reason they ultimately rejected everything associated with the Jews, including the rejection of the Jewish calendar for the Julian (and later Gregorian) calendar; the rejection of observing Christ’s death as Pascha on the 14th Nisan (on the Jewish calendar) for the observance of Christ’s resurrection as Pascha on the first Sunday after the full moon after the vernal equinox (on the Julian and Gregorian calendars); the rejection of Pentecost as the 50th day after Wavesheaf Sunday during the days of Unleavened Bread on which Christ rose from the dead for the 50th day after Pascha (or “Easter” in Germanic languages) Sunday; the rejection of all the other Biblical holy days of Leviticus 23; the observance of Christ’s birthday a few days after Midwinter instead of its more likely occurrence during the Feast of Tabernacles; the rejection of Biblical law; etc.
To follow Christ, in His foosteps, as our elder brother and example, is to be God centered. He looked to His Father and said that the Father is greater. The Father did His works through Christ. It's God (the Father) centered. Those words aren't even in scripture "Christ centered." Just stick with scripture. Read it. Be like Christ.
ReplyDelete11.17 pm Christ said "follow me" 23 or 24 times depending on how one verse is translated. Which is Christ centered in my books.
ReplyDelete10.39 pm. I attended church services for ten years and witnessed no cleansing in the members and ministers lives that I got to know. And there was no cleansing in myself unless I put out effort to that effect. What people experience trumps both political and religious theology. That is, the 'you shall know them by their fruits' thingy. So the God cleans us up viewpoint cannot be correct.
Yes, many Christians believe in John's point of view. But then the majority once believed that the world is flat and that witches on broomsticks exist. And have you heard of the tulip mania?
"Christ centered" was a favorable term with the Tkach duo. Protestants would agree. Christ said "follow me." He followed what the Father instructed.
DeleteIs the author who wrote this post on drugs ? The grammatical error's are a joke.
ReplyDeleteLying as usual about UCG. But you write so many lies it must be second nature to you by now.
If the author of these false accusations really belonged to Jesus this post wouldn't exist.
If a bunch of blind men feel the Elephant in the Room, the all come away with a different impression. Sorry to shamelessly mix metaphors. What I am saying is the in Splinterland, Christology is the Elephant in the Room that nobody wants to talk about. And every person who looks at this problem forms a different impression. Absent surveys, we have no statistics to inform us of sociological trends. But we can have a look around.
ReplyDeleteA good place to look for the roots of the Jesus vs. Law problem is to education. If you went to AC, you majored in the Organizational Hierarchy of the WCG. No matter what was taught in the classroom as theology, the real education was in the day-to-day operations of the organization itself. People related to each other not through love, as Christianity would advocate, but through hierarchy. It was about who was important and who was not and what privileges attached to what levels in the organization. And, for the sharp people, it was an internship in how to ascend the hierarchy. (The not-so-sharp people can live their entire lives believing that AC was about theology and righteousness.)
And if you manage to ascend to the stratospheric reaches of the hierarchy, you discover that religion in Armstrongism is a business. It is about capitalism. Booklets and sermons are a medium for marketing ideas - ideas that a certain category of people want to hear. And they will pay to hear what they want – they will pay with money and loyalty. It is about supply and demand and maybe some carefully crafted demand stimulation (mostly advertising, the root of the Armstrongist economy).
Doesn’t that explain our past experience in the defunct WCG and what we now see happening in Splinterland? Jesus does not sell to the pews in Splinterland. Disaster does. Foretelling the future does. Picky law-keeping that makes you feel that you are righteous does. Believing that you are special in the sight of God to the exclusion of others does. Jesus and Christianity overall don’t. And it can be traced back to a faux educational institution. The "reminder about Christ" shtick is just pro forma.
My hypothesis.
Anon, Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:34:00 PM PDT, wrote:
ReplyDelete"...The holy spirit does not purge us of our sins. Rather we personally purge our sins from our lives. Your point of view is today's big government mindset projected into the bible. You obviously have a problem with self responsibility. No John, God will not do everything for you.
******
Anon, if you could purge your own sins, then why would God the Father, the God of the OT, give His Son for you? Also, if you could purge your own sins, then why would God's Son give his life for you?
However, you will not impress God by any of your purging. Be honest! If you could choose to purge yourself, then why not choose to never sin again and make your choice stick? You can't do it, and if you don't know that now, no problem; you will later learn it.
Do you walk in Jesus' footsteps? He told us this:
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
How much more than "nothing" of Christ will you do?
Jesus took no glory to Himself. What an example!
Sometimes Jesus would enter a town or city and heal everyone who came to him, and who always received the glory? Self? No!
Matthew 9:8 But when the multitudes saw [it], they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
Matthew 15:31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.
It went to God the Father, the God of the Old Testament (Acts 3:13).
God is holy. God is Spirit. Best not to "downplay" what is done through that Spirit:
Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them."
Oh, The God, the Father, accomplishes much through His Son:
"But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him."
And if God does not save your butt (yes, and mine...join the club!), not to be too crass here, despite all of the sins in your life, then who will, because God has the entire example of the lives of millions (billions?) of Israelites than they didn't/can't do it.
But, time will tell...
John
Paganism is the elephant. Christianity is just the trunk of the elephant. You can't understand Christianity in context without knowing how it evolved from paganism.
ReplyDeleteWell, 11:14, thank you for that recitation of the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong. It's what we were taught at Ambassador College, starting with Rod Meredith's First Year Bible Class. If you are brave enough, you may want to consider the possibility that much of it was based on pseudo-scholarship.
ReplyDeleteHWA taught of a paucity of historic writings from the second century, and it was generally understood that we were not to read the writings of the so-called Antenicene Fathers "because they were Catholic". Irenaeus, ordained by Polycarp, who was ordained by John, spent a lot of time and effort during the so-called lost century refuting the Gnostics and the teachings of Simon Magus in his major work "Against Heresies." The Catholics do recognize Irenaeus as being a saint. The Catholic Church may not be what we were taught it was, because in Irenaeus we have evidence of a staunch defender of the faith, a rebuker and repudiator of the earlier father of Valentinian Gnosticism, Simon Magus, from the previous Century. There were four other Antenicene Fathers who shared this belief of Irenaeus, and supported his work in rooting out heresies. It is historically ridiculous to believe that someone mistook Simon Magus for Simon Peter, and that he was actually the first Pope. In this internet era, there is much more readily available information on Simon Magus and a digest of his contemporaries, activities, and the efforts against him than were available during the lifetime of HWA.
There were definitely Petrine and Pauline subsets of the early Christian church. That is documented in scripture! Many scholars agree that the Catholic Church had roots in Paul's gentile churches, and its bishops were ordained by the original apostles. The Book of Acts and the writings of Paul indicate that there came a time at which Peter could no longer be the physical leader of the early church in Jerusalem, because he became well-known and was constantly being arrested. It's why James surfaced as the chief of the first Jerusalem Council which presented its edict to Paul. Once circumcision was no longer required of Gentile Christians, many of the rituals of the Temple which were linked to it were no longer binding. What James presented to Paul was basically Noahide Law for the Gentile Christians. If you are not familiar with Noahide Law, check it out at Chabad.org. It is a system well known to Jews for millennia.
This topic is not as black and white as HWA simplified it to be. In support of his teachings, he either did not know, or omitted or ignored huge clumps of information which, if known, would have impeached those teachings.. We laugh at Dave Pack today because of his flagrant misinformation, and perennially inaccurate prophecy, but the misinformation HWA presented is no less damaging. It was just so obscure, and technology did not exist at the time to disprove it for the masses.
1:21 PM
ReplyDeleteWe’ll have to just respectfully agree to disagree. I’m more inclined to seek out the teachings and traditions of John, Polycarp and Polycrates and those associated with them than Popes Anicetus and Victor whom I believe with all their successors since have sat in the seat of Antichrist as the Protestant reformers asserted. But, that’s just me. You do you.
John, you wrote: "you will not impress God with any of your purging."
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary, God will be impressed with anyone who purges him/herself and will reward them accordingly. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God."
"I can of my own self do nothing."
Then why do people go to work each day if they can do "nothing?" You are very much ignoring context. Christ's miracles and teachings came from God the Father. That's what the "nothing" means.
You then switch to your anti self love stance, a favorite of yours. Self love is commanded in "love your neighbor AS YOURSELF." Christ accepted respect, gratitude and did not shun praise when he entered Jerusalem. Even when Christ was arrested, He stood up for His dignity with both the chief priests and with Pilate. Notice how nobody had ridden on the donkey that He rode into Jerusalem and nobody had used the tomb that He was laid in. Christ very much believed in prestige and status.
Your anti self love claim is common in Christianity, but it's not biblical. To understand its source, try Googling "narcissistic devaluation." Evil people mentally shrink their victims in order to gain power and superiority over them. Mentally shrinking people is cold blooded murder.
Excellent comment Tonto. With all the Pack and Flurry nonsense you wouldn't think Banned would have to create this kind of content. It kinda rivals the spin doctors in D.C. !!
ReplyDeleteAnon, Saturday, April 29, 2023 at 3:07:00 AM PDT, wrote:
ReplyDelete"...10.39 pm. I attended church services for ten years and witnessed no cleansing in the members and ministers lives that I got to know. And there was no cleansing in myself unless I put out effort to that effect. What people experience trumps both political and religious theology. That is, the 'you shall know them by their fruits' thingy. So the God cleans us up viewpoint cannot be correct..."
******
Anon, if Ezekiel were alive today [and he will awake in the 2nd resurrection with Isaiah (Isaiah 26:19)] and you told Ezekiel that: "...God cleans us up viewpoint cannot be correct...", what might Ezekiel remind you of? See Ezekiel 36:33
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded."
See Ezekiel 37:23
"Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."
God, through His Plan of Salvation for humanity, is not a respecter of persons when it comes to cleansing, but He has His timing, and time will tell...
John
Tonto:
ReplyDeleteSome people, no doubt, in Splinterland think about Jesus. We might ask which Jesus - the Jesus of the NT or the Jesus of Armstrongist theology. They are, after all, two very different figures. What percentage of Splinterists think about the Jesus of Christianity I believe is likely very, very small. What the post observes is that even the recast Jesus of Armstrongism does not get big air time in Splinterland.
Generalizations are a part of the analysis because they reflect trends. A few who think about the Armstrongist Jesus, like yourself, cannot lead to a rule that covers all of Splinterland. That is taking something that is a minority trend and elevating it to a majority trend without justification. In other words, you have committed the same error of logic that you accuse No2hw of having done. And a few Armstrongists jumped on the bandwagon.
But No2hwa is not making an unfounded assertion. I think we need only examine Splinterists sermons and publications to see where the gravitas is. There is empirical evidence that Jesus is relegated to the periphery in Splinterland. It was that way in the old WCG. I was there. And in the early Millerite Movement, most were blatantly Arianist, believing that Jesus was a created being rather than eternal God. Some Church of God Seventh Day ministers are still Arianist, as I have heard. One of the profound revelations of the Trinity is that Jesus is equal to God in his eternal state. To which, Armstrongists always reply that Jesus is God but he is inferior to the Father, not understanding that Jesus when he made that statement about the Father being greater was in a Kenotic state.
Splinterists seem to want to cling to the Kenosis of Christ and extend it beyond its end. Christ ascended to the throne of God and was glorified two Millennia ago but in Splinterland he is still second banana. Splinterists live in the world of God-Moses-Law whereas, Christians live in the realm of Trinity-Jesus-Love. The emphases are clear.
Earlier in this thread, I wrote about how AC was about hierarchy and not love. I can quote chapter and verse. And Exiters will resonate with it. I believe the ball is in your court to demonstrate your hypotheses are correct. If you do, I look forward to the challenge.
Anon, Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 12:05:00 AM PDT, wrote:
ReplyDelete"...
John, you wrote: "you will not impress God with any of your purging."
On the contrary, God will be impressed with anyone who purges him/herself and will reward them accordingly. Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God."
******
Scripture tells us: "That no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Cor 1:29
Anon, you also asked: "...Then why do people go to work each day if they can do "nothing?" You are very much ignoring context. Christ's miracles and teachings came from God the Father. That's what the "nothing" means.
You then switch to your anti self love stance, a favorite of yours. Self love is commanded in "love your neighbor AS YOURSELF." Christ accepted respect, gratitude and did not shun praise when he entered Jerusalem. Even when Christ was arrested, He stood up for His dignity with both the chief priests and with Pilate. Notice how nobody had ridden on the donkey that He rode into Jerusalem and nobody had used the tomb that He was laid in. Christ very much believed in prestige and status.
Your anti self love claim is common in Christianity, but it's not biblical. To understand its source, try Googling "narcissistic devaluation." Evil people mentally shrink their victims in order to gain power and superiority over them. Mentally shrinking people is cold blooded murder.
******
Have you ever read of Jesus taking glory to Himself as a human being? The works done in Him were done by His Father:
"I can of my own self do nothing," said Jesus Christ. Why?
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works." John 14:10
Where is the self in that? You treasure the "self" within yourself. Fine, but I agree with the Apostle Paul's words:"
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not." Romans 7:18
How do you get around that one?
While you continue to be impressed in yourself, here are some other words of Paul I agree with:
"Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do [it]." I Thess 5:24
And there is Phil 2:13 ("For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure."); however, most people usually only focus on themselves by only reading the previous verse, and such is life. Then, there is Phil 1:6, which shows you how much you have to do with your salvation. I like a God that finishes/completes what He begins/starts in us, because I can't do it! You are deceived thinking you can save yourSELF, by your own works, etc.
So, let's agree to disagree, b/c time will tell...
John
BP8 wrote "Excellent comment Tonto. With all the Pack and Flurry nonsense you wouldn't think Banned would have to create this kind of content. It kinda rivals the spin doctors in D.C. !!"
ReplyDeleteWell, it looks like many here totally understood the meaning of the original post and agree with it.
John, you have many times attacked the purpose of the feast of Tabernacles ie, hope of a better future, with your "Micky Mouse Millennium" put down. You then follow up by rejecting self love. Why seek the kingdom if your life is not precious? And then you cap this off by telling readers to retire from life because God will do everything for them.
ReplyDeleteDo you see a pattern here? Can you see what what your motive/s might be??
Anon, Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 3:48:00 PM PDT, wrote:
ReplyDelete"...John, you have many times attacked the purpose of the feast of Tabernacles ie, hope of a better future, with your "Micky Mouse Millennium" put down. You then follow up by rejecting self love. Why seek the kingdom if your life is not precious? And then you cap this off by telling readers to retire from life because God will do everything for them.
Do you see a pattern here? Can you see what what your motive/s might be??
******
Anon, for the most part I just quote scriptures, which you don't believe. So be it. Where do you get those ideas about self love?
You accuse me of something, while I believe the words of the following verse?
“For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:” Eph 5:29
What verses have I cited that you disagree with? The Feast of Tab has a wonderful purpose, although the First day of that Feast is the only holy convocation, along with any weekly Sabbath during that 7-day period. All 7 days are not holy convocations, yet people don't do as God requested. Wouldn't that create confusion? So, you think I attack the purpose of the Feast of Tab. Well, I don't. Perhaps you have a different idea about the Feast of Tab's purpose. We have a fantastic future ahead with the salvation of all mankind and subsequent destruction of Satan and his angels. That's God's Plan.
What does the FoTab and the MMM got to do with this thread, which was about the United Ass., Rick Shabi, Jesus Christ, Passover and DUBread?
Will you believe what God has inspired in the Bible regarding the purpose of the Feast of Tab, Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread or follow someone's ideas about about those things.
When will you acknowledge that Jesus Christ will not "very soon" return to planet earth to reign on earth for 1,000 years with the assistance of you and whoever you believe may be associated with you?
Time will tell...
John
Ah that old horse chestnut "very soon" for frail humans can mean 5-10 years possibly but for Almighty God "very soon" could be longer in human years. God gave Noah's generation a 120 year warning. So in terms of 20th Century Herbert Armstrong that's still keeping his warnings relevant. Of course that will infuriate many contributers of this blog. Bashing Herbert is practically a fine tuned hobby these days.
DeleteI've always strived, struggled, to identify far out groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Armstrongites as Christians - no matter how weird they are, if they profess Jesus, we should not judge whether they belong to Jesus.
ReplyDeleteHowever, some of the comments on this thread are really challenging the notion that Armstrongites are really Christians.
It is certainly anti-Christian to have merely a yearly reminder of Jesus in a ritual called Passover, which is wholly unrecognizable be Jews, ancient or contemporary, as Passover, while calling the event of Jesus' resurrection a pagan observance.
It appears to me to be a hideous disrespect to the Savior to say, as some posts here are virtually saying, no thanks Jesus, I got this, I will purge my own sins.
All the Armstrong blathering about the need to overcome without the mention of the fact we can only overcome by the blood of the Lamb, who came to take away our sins, is vain deceit.
I want to give Armstrongites the benefit of the doubt, but then they ruin it by insisting on being their own savior, or a best, co-savior.
All one can do is keep praying for the poor, deceived Armstrongites - and praise God for each precious one who does break away, to embrace Jesus as the Savior who does all the saving.
Trooisto, Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 7:38:00 PM PDT, said:
ReplyDelete"...It is certainly anti-Christian to have merely a yearly reminder of Jesus in a ritual called Passover, which is wholly unrecognizable be Jews, ancient or contemporary, as Passover, while calling the event of Jesus' resurrection a pagan observance.
It appears to me to be a hideous disrespect to the Savior to say, as some posts here are virtually saying, no thanks Jesus, I got this, I will purge my own sins.
All the Armstrong blathering about the need to overcome without the mention of the fact we can only overcome by the blood of the Lamb, who came to take away our sins, is vain deceit.
I want to give Armstrongites the benefit of the doubt, but then they ruin it by insisting on being their own savior, or a best, co-savior..."
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Perhaps the Apostle Paul really knew what he was talking about when he wrote the following:
"For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]." 2 Cor 11:4
Here is one example mentioning Jesus' God/Father, who is God our Savior; there are other similar verses saying the same thing:
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, [which is] our hope;" 1 Tim 1:1
However, we are not to overlook what that God/Father does by the power of His Spirit through Jesus:
"But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him." I Cor 8:6
From whence did Jesus receive His life?
"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;" John 5:26
Sometimes people, unknowingly, fall into idolatry when they put so much emphasis into Jesus Christ like He was the sole saviour; however, God the Father has always been in the details.
What did the latest voted-in UCG Ass. leader, Rick Shabi, tell his followers?
"...We need the annual reminder God gives us each year of the salvation that comes only through Jesus Christ..."
But, weren't the words of I Cor 8:6 true? Rick Shabi still believes that Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament, but that isn't true. Salvation isn't only through Jesus Christ. No God the Father: no Jesus Christ! Know God the Father: know Jesus Christ. What a saviour God the Father is!
Will the day come when we all, including Rick Shabi and all former WCG hirelings, may be thankful for the life that The God, the Father, gave His Son so that we all may benefit with salvation and long life, too?
Time will tell...
John