Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Thursday, July 13, 2023

Prophet Joel Is Back And He Is Getting Angry That Everyone Ignores Him


Herbert Armstrong never imagined that he would dream up a church with more Old Testament prophets returning to join it in the last 30 years than has happened to the entire history of the Church of God movement. We have had Moses, Elisha, Elijah, Melchizedek, Malachi, Micah, Habakkuk, Jeremiah, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Amos, and many more. 

Interestingly enough,  NO ONE has EVER claimed to be a follower of Christ that is named in the New Testament. No Matthew, Mark, Luke, Peter, Paul, John, James, Agabus, Silas, Manahen, Philip, Barnabas, or Thomas has ever decided to return to give a powerful message to the church. The problem there is that if they did then they would have to talk about the New Covenant and Jesus and that is anathema to most COG self-appointed prophets and church leaders.

Today we have the distinct privilege of having Joel in our midst. Don't get too overly excited though, Joel is actually the Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasians - the most important Church of God leader since the dawn of creation! As the foundations of the world were being laid out and even before the plans for Jesus being incarnate on the earth and dying on the cross, the Great Bwana Mzungu was already being planned to return in the perilous end times and live in Arroyo Grande and have the most astounding Church of God headquarters since the Temple was built in Jerusalem! Such an amazing dude!

As usual, though, the Great Bwana Mzungu Joel is NOT happy that Church of God members ignore him and the amazing things he has to say. Just like in days of old, modern-day Laodiceans look at Bob Joel and just laugh.

The Great Bwana Mzungu Joel goes on to quote Herbert Armstrong ( as if anything he has ever said is now sacred scripture) and then goes on to say this:

The Great Bwana Mzungu Joel is really ticked off at the Laodicean COG members who should be joining up with his group in these perilous end times as a show of unity. All COG groups should immediately dump their leaders and join up with the Great Bwana Mzungu Joel along with their checkbooks.

Here is something from Joel chapter 2:

12 “Now, therefore,” says the Lord, “Turn to Me with all your heart, With fasting, with weeping, and with mourning.” 13 So rend your heart, and not your garments; Return to the Lord your God, For He is gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, and of great kindness; And He relents from doing harm. 14 Who knows if He will turn and relent, And leave a blessing behind Him — A grain offering and a drink offering For the Lord your God? 
 
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, Consecrate a fast, Call a sacred assembly; 16 Gather the people, Sanctify the congregation, Assemble the elders, Gather the children and nursing babes; Let the bridegroom go out from his chamber, And the bride from her dressing room. 17 Let the priests, who minister to the Lord, Weep between the porch and the altar; Let them say, “Spare Your people, O Lord, And do not give Your heritage to reproach, That the nations should rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples, ‘Where is their God?'” (Joel 2:12-18) 
 
Repentance is something that Joel proclaimed was needed and that is still the case today. Notice that he was saying that all, including the religious who felt that they were God’s people, needed to repent and gather together. That gathering together is something that the Philadelphians need to do in this end time–those who do not, risk being protected from the Day of the Lord, etc. (cf. Zephaniah 2:1-3).

You read that right. Unless you join up with the Great Bwana Mzungu Joel you will NOT get into Petra with him! This, may not be a bad thing because can you imagine 3 1/2 years in the desert with Bwana Bob Mzungu as your preacher! What a hot mess that would be!

The Great Bwana Mzungu aka modern Joel then quoted this about dreams.

Here is some more of what Joel wrote in chapter 2:

28 “And it shall come to pass afterward

That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;

Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,

Your old men shall dream dreams,

Your young men shall see visions.

29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:

Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,

And the moon into blood,

Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. (Joel 2:28-31)

According to the Apostle Peter, there was a partial fulfillment of this (Acts 2:16) on the Day of Pentecost c. 31 A.D. (Acts 2:1).

But as verses such as verse 31 will not be fulfilled until after the start of the Great Tribulation, it is logical to conclude that God would still use dreams to sometimes convey parts of His message prior to the start of the Great Tribulation.

The Great Bwana searches high and low throughout the Bible for ANYTHING that he might remotely claim as validation for his apostasy from the Living Church of God and the setting up of his own lacking in a personality cult. The second he saw the words "dreams" his body shook in ecstasy! "That's it, by Jove! Dreams! I'll use dreams as proof of my right to start a new church to restore all the lost truth of the Bible and help usher in the end times, oh, and print hundreds and hundreds of booklets in hundreds of languages that people will only use as bird cage liners. But heck, at least I tried!"

The Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasians then goes on to claim Herbert Armstrong mentioned the idea that The Great Bwana to Africa would arise in the end times. Herbert Armstrong would NEVER, NEVER have had ANYTHING to do with Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel! No one thing, whatsoever!

The late Pastor General of the old Worldwide Church of God (WCG), Herbert W. Armstrong, basically said so in a 1981 sermon (scripture is from the KJV):

All right, now there’s another prophecy for the people … 
 
Joel 2:28-29 And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 
 
So there is a time coming when God will start pouring out His spirit on human beings. … Day of Pentecost, 3000 were baptized. Peter preached a sermon. They were pricked in their hearts. God began to draw them. God was now… Remember He said, “I will pour out of my spirit on all flesh.” All right, there’s a duality of that. (Armstrong HW. Building The Temple. Sermon, February 14, 1981) 
 
Herbert W. Armstrong was correct about the time coming when God would pour out His Spirit as well as the duality (see also Does the CCOG have the confirmed signs of Acts 2:17-18?). There was a duality to what Peter preached in Acts 2–and that duality is for our current time! 
 
Perhaps it should also be mentioned that the Personal Correspondence Department in the old WCG sent out a letter on dreams and stated the Bible showed that future dreams from God to His people were expected. It then had a date change added to it and here is a quote from that one:

Thank you for your question concerning visions or dreams. The Bible reveals that in times past servants of God were given visions and dreams for specific reasons and/or to convey special messages. …God has used this means of communication in the past and will do so again (Acts 2:17; Joel 2:28) (L052 Worldwide Church of God, 1989) 
 
As the WCG did not publicly acknowledge any such dreams after that letter was sent, the interpretation must be that God would later use dreams (it should be mentioned that the original date of L052 was prior to 1986–hence it was not a change by the Tkach Administration).

The Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasian uses Herbert Armstrong again as PROOF he had to start a new church.

Consider also something that Herbert W. Armstrong wrote:

This very WORK OF GOD for our day is foretold in the prophecy of Revelation 3:7-13. But there it is revealed that we, today, are a people of but little strength – little power (verse 8)! – within ourselves though we have faithfully KEPT GOD’S WORD! The impact of this WORK OF GOD today is going out only through the power of God! Are you having your part in this very WORK OF GOD? But – let’s face it! – WE DO NOT HAVE WITHIN OURSELVES, AS GOD’S INSTRUMENTS FOR HIS WORK TODAY, ANYWHERE NEAR THE POWER OF GOD THAT ACTIVATED THAT ORIGINAL FIRST-CENTURY CHURCH! For that very reason, the living Christ says (verse 8), He has opened to us the gigantic door of MASS COMMUNICATION! The magnified power of the microphone and the printing press. Yet that is only physical, mechanical power! The REAL POWER that makes God’s Work vital and alive is the Holy Spirit of God! (Armstrong HW. Christians Have Lost Their POWER! Plain Truth, Jun 1958). 

Again, it should be pointed out that Herbert Armstrong would have disfellowshipped and marked Bob Thiel for his gross heresy and grievous sinful rebellion!

The Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasians Joel then ends with this:

As it turns out, dreams had been given to several people who later became part of the Continuing Church of God which were essentially fulfilled. 
 
Yet, most people (including Christians) discount that, despite God inspiring Joel to write about it and the Apostle Peter to preach about it. 
 
Laodicean Christians think they are great judges, but sadly do not believe that God has been using dreams in this century. 
 
They do not seem willing to accept those prophecies God gave to Joel. Most do not know the biblical differences between true and false leaders or the signs that GOD says He uses. 
 
Parts of Joel’s message have been at least partially fulfilled and the fulfillment of other parts will come to pass.

True Christians have always been wisely taught to use thoughtful discernment when lying self-appointed prophets like Bob Thiel claim to be instruments of GOD. This is EXACTLY the reason that 99.98% of the Church of God movement REFUSED TO join up with Bob Thiel. They know him to be a liar and a deceiver of the brethren. 

Bwana Bob Thiel is NOT Joel or a prototype of Joel or any other prophet from Biblical tradition. That is a fact and cannot be refuted. He is no Elisha or Elijah. He is not even a good minister. Stay away! Far Away!



24 comments:

  1. Joel goes on to quote Herbert Armstrong ( as if anything he has ever said is now sacred scripture)...

    I recall a sermon tape sent from WCG HQ during the early 80s with David Albert declaring he believed the writings of Herbert Armstrong "will someday be Scripture!"

    Did he still think that after the turmoil of the 1990s? Does anyone even know where Dr. Albert is now?

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    1. Feel like I heard that too, although I dont think the idea was unique to Albert.

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  2. Thiel 2:16: But this is partially that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.....

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  3. Thiel 2:16: But this is partially that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.....

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  4. Albert was always a smug self-righteous jerk.

    If I remember right, Albert is now married to Bernie Schnipperts wife and lives in Oregon.

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  5. Blah blah blah Bobby…

    You haven’t had an original idea since claiming your a prophet and starting your own church.

    No ones ever done that in the COG. /s

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  6. That HWAs writings would one-day be scripture was brough up in my local spokesman's club in the 1980s. You could tell by the body language that everyone agreed. This is their way of locking in Herbs package of truth and error that many felt comfortable with. And a package that's very partial to the irresponsible. Giving a package the label "The Truth" is used by many denominations for the same effect.

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  7. This is EXACTLY the reason that 99.98% of the Church of God movement REFUSED TO join up with Bob Thiel. They know him to be a liar and a deceiver of the brethren.

    Or because they never heard of Bob (they don't read this blog) and are following some other deceiver.

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  8. Somehow, Bob never mentions that HWA said something like this, "The Bible is complete for our time and that there is no need for prophets." I might also add that Jesus Christ is our Apostle and High Priest. We have no need for false leaders like BT, GRF, DCP, and so on.

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  9. Anonymous said...
    Albert was always a smug self-righteous jerk.

    If I remember right, Albert is now married to Bernie Schnipperts wife and lives in Oregon.
    =====================

    Dave Albert and I were friends more so during the transition from WCG to "the Changes". We are in no way similar of personality, and I would agree that Dave was zealous in the old way of WCG ministers, until he wasn't.

    I think our friendship began my first couple of days on the campus as a student when I was 18. I found out that I was not to have an regular girlfriend and all that dating BS. Upset, I did have a girlfriend back in NY and he went out of his way to see if he could get her into AC etc on the spot in the Ambassador Hall mainroom on the phone with her etc. I never saw her again, but he was very supportive of my "plight".

    Dave Albert was the feast coordinator in Myrtle Beach when I gave one of my last FOT sermons. The topic was "The Politics of the New Testament". I spare us. He sat on the front row just staring at me or glaring during the sermon. I could not tell which. After the closing prayer I saw him making a bee line to me and the "Uh oh" came to mind. "Here it comes!"

    Dave said, "That was amazing. We have to go to dinner and tell me more!" We did and kept on for three hours. Dave was my Epistles of Paul teacher at AC so it was particularly a turning of the tables for sure.

    I do know the comedown from being a World Tomorrow presenter etc was difficult for him as one would expect. One time, when on "Refresher" he and I took a long walk chatting around the campus. A local resident approached us and pointed to me and said "I recognize you! I have seen you on television!" I said, "No...that was this fellow (pointing to Dave). He said, "No...I don't know him, but I have seen you on TV!" lol That didn't help Dave. We had a good laugh. This was the same walk where I believe Dave told me that he never thought I should have been in the ministry. I think he knew that I did not understand what I was getting into and it would perhaps be more than my naive self was anticipating. I was thinking Dutch Reformed ministry experience. He was thinking, "WCG ministry experience" which was an eat you alive one.

    Later we kept in touch as he had some heart problems. Eventually lost touch. A couple of years ago, when returning to Oregon, I was passing through his town where he and Arlene lived and had someone who had contact info to get in touch with him and see if we might get together. Dave did not wish to see me so that was that.

    Like many, we mellow over the years having all our experiences and lessons as they accumulate their "too soon old. Too soon schmart" realizations.

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    1. thank you for honest recall of your times in WCG & of friendship with D. Albert, do you folks remember when us males in WCG were sort of "expected" to carry a briefcase (whether we kept much in it or not?) How about when filthy cigarette use by baptized or prospective members, was correctly frowned upon extremely sternly, more than now?

      How about too, if we hold Steven Allwine accountable for what he did to Amy, instead of throwing our huggy UCG arms around him in "support" as a "brother"...

      To the rest regarding B. Thiel, he does hold good insight on what may happen in the Cenacle bldg. of Jerusalem, and has a good watch on the Nascent Sanhedrin's new Portable Altar which renders the so called "3rd Temple" unnecessary etc. (since the 3rd temple has been built now for 2023 years A.D., eh, us as the bricks).

      But ministering for internal affairs there in that COG, seems poorly done. Which group now really does monopolize (correctly) of "Philadelphia"? I'd like to know, but we should continue to keep an eye with him on The Cenacle.

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  10. So Sideshow Bob now thinks he is the prophet Joel?

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  11. I know a young man named Apollos, but hes never claimed to be the endtime fulfillment of anything...

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  12. Dennis, can you tell us what's involved in "Refreshers?" My ministers never gave details when they came back from the event.

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  13. Bob Thiel wrote: "...As it turns out, dreams had been given to several people who later became part of the Continuing Church of God which were essentially fulfilled.

    Yet, most people (including Christians) discount that, despite God inspiring Joel to write about it and the Apostle Peter to preach about it.

    Laodicean Christians think they are great judges, but sadly do not believe that God has been using dreams in this century.

    They do not seem willing to accept those prophecies God gave to Joel. Most do not know the biblical differences between true and false leaders or the signs that GOD says He uses..."
    ******
    Does Jeremiah have some words for Bob Thiel, false prophet?

    "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, [and] not out of the mouth of the LORD." Jer 23:16

    Well, actually those are not Jeremiah's words to Bob, because Bob is a professing prophet, falsely so-called. Bob's words, like Doug Winnail's words (and his Jesus very soon to return to reign 1,000 years on earth and then have his kingdom fail with the take-over of Jerusalem after Satan exits the pit) are counterfeit words as he continues, via another spirit, follow another Jesus with another gospel: a false message.

    In Bob's words above he accuses Laodiceans of things they have no control over. Bob might as well accuse God, the Father, who inspired those words relative to the lives of the Laodiceans.

    Bob Thiel speaking of Philadelphians wrote: "...Repentance is something that Joel proclaimed was needed and that is still the case today. Notice that he was saying that all, including the religious who felt that they were God’s people, needed to repent and gather together. That gathering together is something that the Philadelphians need to do in this end time–those who do not, risk being protected from the Day of the Lord..."

    In Bob's words immediately above he accuses Philadelphians of things they have no control over. Bob might as well accuse God, the Father, who inspired those words relative to the lives of the Philadelphians.

    Bob writes about protection for God's people from some Day of the LORD, which cannot occur until after Doug Winnail's 1,000 years of another Jesus reigning on earth. It sounds very stupid to be so concerned now.

    All of those eras, congregation, churches mentioned in Revelation 2-3 must operate exactly as God foretold, or God is a liar. God does not need any help from any prophets, even false professing prophet Bob Thiel. How does God guarantee the outcomes mentioned in Rev 2-3? Very simply. God has 7 angels, one for each era, to make it all happen. God cannot lie, but Bob Thiel can lie and so can Doug Winnail, and other hirelings who fled from the former WCG once upon a time.

    When will Bob Thiel stop judging, and blaming laodiceans and philadelphians (has Bob ever met one?) for not living up to his own prerequisites/requirements, and stop boasting of himSELF as if he were something like the most high...professing prophet?

    Time will tell...

    John

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  14. anonymous asked...

    Dennis, can you tell us what's involved in "Refreshers?" My ministers never gave details when they came back from the event.
    ======================================

    They were generally exhausting and boring, at least as I experienced them. The topics depended on what particular drama, trauma and scandal were going on at the time.

    Outwardly, IMHO, they were meant to "educate the ministry" on various topics relevant to ministry but often seemed to be a way to check up on where the ministry stood on various topics and loyalties. I am sure more went on after class time than during.

    Contrary to the views of some, we weren't taught how to fleece the flock and lord it over the members. Some classes were designed to counter the kind of ministers who members came to hate.

    Some classes were on "leadership". Standard boring stuff. One class was so boring I got up and left and went to the Long Beach Rock and Mineral Show instead. lol. The best one was in '74 or so when the Systematic Theology Project was brought out putting divorce and remarriage, healing only , tithing and other annoying topics on trial with a major and positive changes. D and R died, doctors plus anointing was great and tithing was addressed in practical senses. Of course, HWA comes along in a few months, demands all the manuals back and undoes it all. That was the one chance WCG had a chance to grow up and missed it.

    On one Refresher a group of us went to a lecture at Fuller Seminary on the Apostle Paul and how he was the author of modern Christianity. Best class of the whole thing. Sadly, ministers leaving the lecture were overheard saying they had no clue what the professor was talking about and "Ask Dennis, he'll understand what he meant". Of course I did and it was counter to WCG views.

    I never liked them much. I almost didn't go to the one in Tucson where HWA fled to during the receivership. I was never much good at sitting through all the drama of WCG and BS taught to counter what ultimately proved to be true.

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  15. One funny session was on "What sexual practices are right for a Christian", if you can imagine that. I almost couldn't imagine this was going to be a topic. In my world it's a "None of your business topic and whatever the outcome, don't ask me to repeat anything taught here.

    The minister giving the "lecture" started out by saying "I find this topic distasteful." We all fell out in peels of laughter and disbelief he said that. The director of the French work was in the back of the room and started waving his hands and shouting "STOP! If you keep going we'll lose the whole French Church!" We fell out again and the presenter said, "Never mind, we don't have to talk about this.." We fell out again and left.

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    1. that is a FUNNY, funny story! thank you.

      any chance the French leader waving hands was Dibar Apartian?

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  16. PS I came from a background in the Dutch Reformed Church where there three places the church and ministry could stay for free with regards to personal topics and church members.

    In your own lane
    Out of my business
    and
    Over there,,

    These three places were not understood by HWA and the old guard ministry.

    It was from all my personal experiences with HQ and many in ministry I came up with...

    https://herbertwarmstrong.net/church-of-god-info/Diehl/Church-Members-Rights.htm

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  17. I wanna play Booby's game too!

    Let's see, ok, I got it! I am GARNER TED ARMSTRONG back from the dead!

    I am GTA. I am GTA . I am GTA. I am GTA.

    I AM GARNER TED ARMSTRONG!!!!!!!!

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  18. Is it possible the real prophet Joel prophesied in front of curtains with flowers flinging his arms wildly?

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  19. Its an aside, but didnt Albert have a professional career before he became a COG mucketymuck? Seem to remember that...

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  20. Well, I see everything through rock n roll filters. I always liked Elton John's music better than Billy Joel's!

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  21. RSK said...
    Its an aside, but didnt Albert have a professional career before he became a COG mucketymuck? Seem to remember that...
    ===============
    No, Dave Albert came into WCG very young. Later, when in WCG he went on to get a doctorate in counseling which WCG was not really allowing him to bring into the church setting. He then went on to his own practice I would think.

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