Well, we can all rest easy now. Church of God a Worldwide Association has finally given us the meaning of the word "law". The mental gymnastics the COG uses to claim the law is still 100% in effect for all members is astounding,
Defining the law
Fulfill can mean to complete, achieve, bring to fruition or bring about—in other words, to fill up.
What did Christ complete and fill up?
Christ brought the law to fruition by first defining what the law means and then by living the law perfectly.
Christ was a teacher. We see that by how He taught in parables.
To His followers, the law was like an unlearned set of vocabulary words. They talked a lot about it, but didn’t fully understand its true purpose and meaning. Christ was going to teach the law by providing practical definitions of the commandments.
If you have the vocabulary words, but no definitions, how can you know the exact meaning behind those words?
This is how Christ started fulfilling the law, by defining it.
A little later they say this:
Fulfillment of the law
Christ taught the fullness of the law that we are to follow to this day if we want to be in God’s Kingdom (Matthew 19:17).
According to Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant is all about writing God’s law on our hearts and minds.
If Christ did away with the law and prophets, Jeremiah’s New Covenant prophecy would be meaningless. There would be no law to write on the heart and mind if it were abolished by Christ.
Christ said that if anyone teaches against the law of God, he or she will be considered least in the Kingdom. On the other hand, those who follow the law will be considered great in the Kingdom (Matthew 5:19).
Much of the world says that the law is done away with, and many follow only the laws they choose.
As Christians, we must teach that obedience to the law was validated by Christ. We cannot teach the law the way human beings want to view it, but the way Christ actually taught it.
He taught the fulfillment of the law through total obedience, in the letter and in the spirit.
Do we follow what Christ taught or what the world teaches now?
This is the kind of fluff they teach their teens.
How Did Christ Fulfill the Law?
There are limits on grace. The NT tells us...
ReplyDelete"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Our righteousness comes to us through Jesus Christ, NOT by virtue of our own efforts. People who have not put on the righteousness of Christ will remain unrighteous, and they will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Nevertheless, for those who do believe in Jesus Christ, salvation is assured. And such folks will certainly not be wallowing in their former sinful behaviors - they will be following Christ's commandments to love God and each other. In other words, if someone is living like they haven't accepted Christ's sacrifice, they probably haven't accepted Christ's sacrifice!
ReplyDeleteCOGWA makes the same mistakes that all of the ACOGs make regarding a Christian's obligation to Torah. They believe that most of us are trying to do away with God's Law, avoid obeying him, and to slide into the Kingdom with a grace that allows lasciviousness. They simply cannot comprehend what Christ's fulfillment of Torah means for us, and they get bogged down in trying to explain why we should keep certain commandments and ignore others. They don't get that Christians are not bound by the terms of the Old Covenant with Israel.
The laws of the new covenant indicated by Jer 31:33 will include the sabbaths, are prophesied for the future in Ezekiel, Isa 66:23.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I know about the law is that nobody wants to be told what to do, so they "interpret" whatever law there is however they see fit.
ReplyDeleteModern "Christians" are not righteous, which shows they have no relationship with Christ.
ReplyDeleteMy head just exploded! I don't know how else to try and help people understand we are not under the law. It is obsolete, as Paul said in Hebrews. It is fulfilled. Done. Over.
ReplyDeleteIf you think you can keep the ENTIRETY of the 613 LAWS in the Torah, good luck. But I am a sinner, in need of a perfect Savior, Who fulfilled the law for me and took the penalty for my law breaking, the death I deserve. I rest in Christ's finished work on the Cross. But if you prefer to keep the yoke of bondage around your neck, go for it, but you better be absolutely 100% perfect.
As to comments re:sabbath keeping forever more, please look at the language again. We will be coming before God to worship Him FROM one Sabbath TO the next. That is a continuous, every single day worship. From/to equates to one Saturday TO the next, i.e. 8 days, consecutively. Also consider in eternity future there is no Sun or moon with which to reckon days, weeks or months. Law fulfilled by Jesus. Holy days fulfilled by Jesus. Sabbath rest is in Jesus. New Covenant, not the Old, in effect for everyone (Jew or gentile) since His ascension.
Tonto: the passage you quoted perfectly describes the condition of all of us, certainly me and even you!
ReplyDeleteDo not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Hallelujah however, all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus (Romans 3:24).
Only those who are perfectly righteous will make it into the Kingdom; to be perfectly righteous, one must be made right by the Perfect Savior who died for our sins and was raised to life for our justification (Romans 4:25).
Conditionally, we are all sinners; however, our position in Jesus is that we are righteous and at peace with God (Romans 5:1)!
Hallelujah, we won’t remain sinners, as the justified will be sanctified and glorified by God (1 Corinthians 6:11 and Romans 8:30)!
I was sad to see that you wrote that there is a limit to grace; Salvation by Grace is all the work of God – there is no limit to God or Grace (2 Thessalonians 2:16)!
Thank you Miller Jones and others for correcting me. Since righteousness comes through Christ and NOT through virtue of our own efforts, I'm going to cancel my gym membership and become a couch potato. I'll spend my time watching Netflix and eating crackers. I'll come here calling myself Couch Potato Guy.
ReplyDelete"The coming world government will not be based on Levitical conventions, nor on the Sinai Covenant. Who, after carefully examining the words and works of the Anointed King of Israel, Yeshua of Nazareth, would presume to place the welfare of the entire globe on the juvenile pride in days, months, years, food, drink, and perishable rituals? Not me."
ReplyDeletehttps://eejoseph.com/2023/04/17/a-strange-analogy-but-not-the-truth/
I throw in another Romans verse, hope it doesn't "really muddy up the waters":
ReplyDeletefor it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified - Rom 2:13
Fluff NO2HWA?? What a strange and peculiar insult. Steady now, wouldn't want to reveal how much of a complete hypocrite you are.
ReplyDeleteWhite washed tomb and all that.
You love to nit pick all the Churches of God whilst hiding in secrecy and yet actually never teach with the actual words of Jesus Christ in real life. How strange that is....
You will give an account one day for all this mess you have created, all the evil sniping you love to pour at the Churches of God on a blog that was very strangely only created in 2011. Strange that, now which church had a major split in 2011 ???..... Thus freeing you up to unleash all your hatred ......
Well, at least we know what COGWA's perspective is. I certainly hope nobody is implying that their viewpoint is the only absolute immutable truth forever and ever, or something like that. That would be quite arrogant, would it not?
ReplyDeleteArrogance is assuming readers would fall for such a strawman comment.
DeleteHWA on Salvation/Sabbath (from 'US,BC in Prophecy' - 1967):
ReplyDelete"[Sabbath is] The Real Test Commandment" (page 160)
"[We must keep Sabbath because] WE Are Israel" (page 164)
Oh Really Herbert?? got proof??
"To work on the Sabbath..is A MAJOR SIN, punishable by ETERNAL DEATH!" (page 168)
okay Herbert, how do we time this day? I see you agree with the very arbitrary International-Date-Line!?
1.58 AM Are the laws of physics and chemistry the absolute, immutable truth? Of course they are. Just like all of God's moral laws. So yes, I'm not only implying, but telling you that my viewpoint is the truth for ever and ever. And thanks for asking.
ReplyDelete11.26 PM That you white wash the moral and literal crimes in the ACOG cults by accusing their victims of nit picking, is why this blog exists.
Btw, like many former members, I'm still trying to fully remove the Borg implants that were inserted into me by Borg queen, HWA. I've come to the conclusion that they can never be completely removed. Herbs churches have permanently damaged its past and present members minds. And ironically Herbs favorite teaching was "outgoing concern." Well if you're practicing the exact opposite and deserve to be despised, I can understand why he did that.
11:26 Who's whitewashing any crimes ? False accusation designed to cause a hullabaloo to distract from facing the truth.
DeleteThe truth shall always be with you no matter how you ignore it.
I'm more of an Einstein's Theory of Relativity guy, 7:47!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 3:48 PM said...“Modern 'Christians' are not righteous, which shows they have no relationship with Christ.”
ReplyDeleteThat is correct. Modern, Sunday-keeping, professing “Christians” are not RIGHT (righteous). They are WRONG (wrongous or unright or unrighteous).
Within WCG in its glory days of the 1980s, I met many sick, disgusting, depraved assholes who really needed to be taken out back and given a proper street beating. Believe me, being part of "the truth" did no credit to them. And ironically, they were usually the ones rushing to demonstrate how "upright" they were and what buddybuddies they were with the brass. But I also knew a handful of genuinely good-hearted folks with the right motives and a balanced outlook.
ReplyDeleteInterfacing with non-WCG people has been same on a larger scale. You have your scumbags, your assholes, your idiots, and here and there, a person who's actually trying to live up to the standards and doesn't need to trumpet it to others.
I often think of it in the context of that "let your light shine before men" passage. How does the author say a follower should do that? He doesn't say "by constantly telling everyone about it", or "by utilizing political power to force everyone to do what we say" and so on. The passage continues "that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father which is in Heaven."
Do ya think squabbling over the law is gonna evoke that response in the average bystander? Are they gonna see your perfect Sabbath attendance record (or not) and give two shits?
Nah but stopping writing in foul crass angry language would be a move in the right direction.
DeleteAww, poor baby. Show us on the doll where the wirty dords hurt you.
DeleteAnd fake name RSK supposed to me a man. Lol. Do you require counselling for the hatred that swirls in you ?
DeleteMy head just exploded!
ReplyDeleteThat's what I would expect a drama queen to say. When is your head not exploding? Anyone who is not a staunch orthodox seems to make your head explode, or so you claim.
When the Rabbis talked to Jesus their heads exploded ... because they were just so wrong.
Really, RSK, my experience has been the same, and I've noticed the same cross sections of people on the outside as on the inside.
ReplyDeleteAs a general rule there will always be people who can't seem to understand why "been there, done that!' means that something simply did not work. They are stuck with their tunnel vision and necessary blinders, and until they are stripped away, they'll stick with their cults.
Do ya think squabbling over the law is gonna evoke that response in the average bystander? Are they gonna see your perfect Sabbath attendance record (or not) and give two shits?
ReplyDeleteThe Sabbatarian seeks to please his God, not bystanders. Otherwise, he would probably not be a Sabbatarian in the first place.
Then you have a quarrel with Jesus himself, as he was the one quoted in the passage.
DeleteThe only one quarrelling RSK is you. How's the fraudulent life going?
DeleteIt seems pretty extreme to say that if you can't do something perfectly you should stop trying, and reject it entirely.
ReplyDeleteLike, if you can't write perfect comments every time you should never write another one again ever.
Any strength practiced to extreme becomes a weakness. (Points to ponder)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 4:13 PM said...“Any strength practiced to extreme becomes a weakness. (Points to ponder)”
ReplyDeleteNo, it does not. It becomes an even stronger strength. (Think about that.)
It looks like we have attack-guy Kevin McMillen with us again. Foul grass angry language is all he knows.
ReplyDeleteWon't it feel strange in the kingdom when it's finally peaceful with no crazies around?
Nah, not Kevin. And believe me, the notion of spending eternity with a bunch of stuffed uptight drones like you is not the wonderful vision you think it is.
DeleteKrazy Kevin again?! And why does he post several crazy comments a few minutes a part like so many Millennials I know who send SMS after SMS after SMS to answer just one question when they could just put all their thoughts into a paragraph and send it as a single SMS rather than split over multiple SMS's?! Argh!!!
ReplyDeleteBullies alert. Trying in the bullying on who isn't their sycophants but cry babies themselves when contradicted.
DeleteThe original Church ruled long ago on the Sabbath dilemma saying "Set aside Sundays" (pax Romana) (a very good compromise considering Paul's anti-mosaic teachings)
ReplyDeleteWe should be following the church's decision (bound in heaven)
Comments on comments:
ReplyDelete"The laws of the new covenant indicated by Jer 31:33 will include the sabbaths, are prophesied for the future in Ezekiel, Isa 66:23."
You have made a presumption about what Jeremiah means in this prophecy. He says there will be a new "covenant". He also says God will put his "teaching" in their hearts. He does not write that this will be the Torah. That is something you have presumed. To presume it is the Torah is to reject the corpus of Pauline theology as it relates to the law. In other words, you are taking the stance that the OT is what you want to follow and the NT can be discarded. You need to rethink this and see if you can come up with something that is more than a conventional COG sound bite.
"It seems pretty extreme to say that if you can't do something perfectly you should stop trying, and reject it entirely."
There is a marked difference between trying to keep the Torah perfectly and failing, on the one hand, and systematically ignoring parts of the Torah, on the other hand. Armstrongism systematically ignores parts of the Torah and teaches ideas that misrepresent the Torah. For instance, you cannot validly keep the FoT by staying in a top-drawer hotel in Branson, Missouri. You must keep the feast in a brush arbor in Jerusalem. Read the Torah and find out which approach to keeping the FoT is supported. This is not a case of someone struggling to keep the Torah and screwing up - it is a case of systematically disobeying the Torah as church dogma. In Rabbinic Judaism, which had to accommodate to the absence of the Temple, they at least continue to use brush arbors. Further, the FoT is an observance connected to the Exodus. Nowhere in the Bible is it taught to symbolize the Millennium.
"for it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified - Rom 2:13"
If this refers to the Armstrongist concept of keeping the Torah, then no Armstrongists have ever been justified. They do not keep the Torah; Armstrongists keep only select parts of the Torah. When I was around Armstrongists, I never found any of them to have tassels on their clothing. The tassel command is not a part of the sacrifices nor is it a part of the ministration of death, both of which Armstrongists believe to be set aside. Paul, in the Book of Acts, stated, “And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” Justification comes from God through the faith of Jesus operating in you. It does not come from your keeping the Law of Moses. Though once you are convicted you will naturally want to keep the Law of Christ in the New Covenant. This latter is what Paul is referring to in Romans 2:13. Faith is the source of both justification and changed behavior.
Scout
More law. Never taught by HWA. Disliked by "15th" Pharisees in Jesus' time, or maybe they just didn't understand the verse. It's in the Bible. It's Ezekiel 45:21. The 15th is not the first day of unleavened bread but it is the time of the "NTBMO". The verse is a prophecy for the future. It's not done away Torah, not the first of 8 days of eating unleavened bread, not even a mistranslation! But at least one minister deals with it by stating the Hebrew punctuation between the words "passover" and "a feast" means the verse is referring to two feasts. But there are only 3 feasts (Lev 23 lists fixed times which are both feasts and sabbaths) in Ex 23:14-16 which doesn't mention the passover b/c it's in the 7 days of unleavened bread.
ReplyDelete6:48 obviously thinks that obsessive-compulsive is the state to which humans should aspire. It's not. It's a disease. Examples: Washing your hands is good hygiene. Washing them too much makes the skin come off. Practicing a musical instrument makes you good at it. Practicing to the point where you don't eat properly or sleep eventually makes it so you play less well. Keeping the sabbath strengthens an Armstrongite. Getting Pharisaic about it, like pre-separating your sheets of toilet paper diverts attention from the more important aspects. Washing your car regularly keeps it in peak appearance. Washing it every day wears out the paint prematurely.
ReplyDeleteAnd, you could use anything as an example of this. I'm surprised that someone had to break it down and explain it to you, 6:48! You have lots of room left in which to practice deeper thinking and still have it be a strength.
Scout writes:
ReplyDelete“You have made a presumption about what Jeremiah means in this prophecy. He says there will be a new "covenant". He also says God will put his "teaching" in their hearts. He does not write that this will be the Torah. That is something you have presumed.”
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my TORAH in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Please explain?
Scout writes:
"Though once you are convicted you will naturally want to keep the Law of Christ in the New Covenant. This latter is what Paul is referring to in Romans 2:13."
Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Ro 2:25a For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law
From context isn’t it the Law of God given by Moses?