Before I conclude this letter, I wanted to give you a brief update on where we are with the potential building of an auditorium on our property here in McKinney, Texas. We are currently in the process of negotiating with three contractors (we began with five) to see if this project will be viable. We were surprised that from the time we began our planning for this potential auditorium, building costs have gone up exponentially, by 50 percent according to some. To be perfectly clear, our goal from the beginning was to pay cash for any new building, or possibly pay mostly cash with a small, short-term loan that could be paid off in two or three years. If we can’t arrive at a price that we can afford, then we will put the project on hold until we have the cash to complete what we started. This should be determined in the next few weeks. At that time, I will meet with the Ministerial Board of Directors, and a decision will be made as to whether we: (1) put the project on hold for possibly another year, (2) cancel the project or (3) go forward with building. The determining factor will be the cost. I will keep everyone informed when a decision is made.
Wonder what the membership figures are for cogwa?
ReplyDeleteThis will be quite possibly a huge elephant around their necks.
Ya gotta figure in the maintenance costs also, long term.
If you are a growing organisation with a steady income base that’s not so much of an issue.
But Armstrongism? We have all been here before.
And the costs will undoubtedly rise, build or no build.
Meanwhile there is a ‘gospel’ to preach……………………….
Just rent the one that Geriatic Flurry built.
ReplyDeleteDidn't they have an auditorium back in the World wide days at Pasadena? Oh the cost splinterdom. Something to remind us of the good ole days.
ReplyDeleteSurprised that costs have risen by 50 %? Where was the guidance and blessing from God? If God is pleased with this organization, why didn't He tell them to build it in 2017, and step out in faith for the required funds?
ReplyDeleteThe architect must be a genius to design an 500 seater auditorium/education centre with enough parking on that strip of land.
ReplyDeleteGoes to show that Herb infused yet another thing into his followers' dna! I mean, how can we have an ACOG without an auditorium? It's like their version of the temple and holy of holies.
ReplyDeleteTheir "Ministerial Board of Directors" sounds expensive, whose BIG $ecret $alaries are hogging a big percentage of the the income from the limited number of Titheslaves, now down to ~440 and falling!
ReplyDeleteTime for another building fund! I don't know why COGWA didn't attempt to do this from the start? The building of a HQ was one of the main reasons for the UCG/COGWA split. Perhaps, COGWA was more concerned about the money to pay their staff, instead of building this? They had too many ministers and not enough members to support their efforts.
ReplyDeleteAll of these "churches" trying to show off to the world is a sad state of affairs. If they have enough cash on hand to build something like that, think of all of the real work they could accomplish. This just shows where their heart is.
ReplyDeleteCogwa has plenty of money with high earners and its membership is one of the youngest among the splinters. They won’t extend themselves spreading the gospel, even if at some point they do extend themselves…(see what I did there?)
ReplyDeleteThen obviously it's got to be one of the most Liberal splinter groups.
DeleteAnd what portion of ACOGs tithe payers money goes towards paying for minister retirement? I'm not saying that this is wrong, but I bet this figure is hidden away with creative accounting.
ReplyDeleteWhat offends me is that ACOGs ministers have a history of asking members voyeuristic, peeping tom questions, yet are secretive about their own lives and church finances that should be public by law.
Btw, I've been the victim of ministers demanding answers to voyeuristic questions, so don't tell me it doesn't exist.
Well as we've seen, 12:45, these schmucks control the ministers by leveraging their retirement. It's been a long standing tradition that employees of any of the Armstrong franchises do not pay into the Social Security program. And, the ministers only get their retirement if they retire as members in good standing who agree with everything the church has taught them. If they leave, no retirement and no SS! I don't know whether there is 401K involved, but I do know that the traditional teaching about investments is that you don't "play the stock market", you put disposable funds back into "the work".
DeleteHonestly, a man would have more financial security as a custodian for a large company than as a minister for an ACOG.
When an organization is totally FUBAR, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't with regard to handling retirement issues. It's checkmate either way for the employees, kind of like the mob, or for that matter the Hotel California!
I always though some ministry despise members who are not tied career wise to the church organisation.
DeleteAt best they're deceived by Herbie's rants about stuff that doesn't exist in scripture such as "third tithe" (more money), "seven feasts" (more money with 7 offerings), and of course tithing commanded on money income (doesn't exist in scripture).
ReplyDeleteAt worst they know all this and extort the tithes anyway.
If they move forward, rest assured the cost will increase again after they begin construction. Inflation in the construction industry is still running higher than the CPI figures claimed by the BLS. I'd be tickled pink if they start work and then find out, oops, the cost has gone up again. This should be fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteBased on percentages of measurable results, they should actually disband. Armstrongism has been burned! It's no longer even viable due to decades of false prophecy, backedaling, and lame excuses!
ReplyDeleteGood thing that Jesus and the Apostles had an auditorium to do "the work" !
ReplyDeleteEven if the ACOGs prophesies were to come to pass, the reality is that for many decades they kept repeating that the end is 3 to 5 short years away, or similar. This fits the criteria of a false prophet.
ReplyDeleteWith their non-biblical, 'the end justifies the means' cop out, they don't think that they have done wrong, but the reality is that many who believed this lie were seriously harmed. And as is the church tradition, these victims have been intimidated into silence. ACOGs leaders love to feel warm and comfortable, so no cries of the victims is permitted. Sweeping them under the carpet is their policy.
And these same leaders fancy that they'll have top positions in God's kingdom.
In that screen shot Jim Franks looks like he has a severe case of flatulence, indigestion, or both.
ReplyDeletePoor Bob Thiel. Here he is struggling with a little tiny depressing building with a rotten roof, wet floors, with no working phone lines and COGWA is looking to spend millions on an auditorium.
ReplyDeleteBob is always the spinster bridesmaid that no one wants to marry.
In that screen shot Jim Franks looks like he has a severe case of flatulence, indigestion, or both.
ReplyDeleteLooks like Jim has gained some weight since the UCG split. Splinter life has been good to him!
Ucg is a splinter.
DeleteLook at the jowls on that guy! Either he's trying to imitate HWA, or he needs to cut back on his calories!
ReplyDeleteIs Franks sure that construction costs have "grown exponentially"? If not is he lying or using something of an idiom for any fast (or unexpected) growth.
ReplyDeleteIs it okay to use idioms? Is "3 days and 3 nights" an idiom as claimed by many? Franks takes 3 days and 3 nights as an exact measure. Perhaps Franks should be as exacting with his own speech and apologize for the untruth of construction costs that have "grown exponentially" or show that it has been exponential growth.
Is it only me who finds paying cash for a construction as large as that highly suspect ?
ReplyDeleteBuilding construction is usually signed off in phases as unforseen issues can happen incurring extra costs.
Franks is using "mark-to-market" accounting pioneered by Enron execs.
Deleteas he readies/scams his tithepayers to expect future "costs" or fake bloated assets
That doesn't explain why a respectable building contractors in 2024 would want a 'cash contract'.
DeleteFrank's presents it as a one off payment, which is definitely not how contractors operate these days. I doubt any building contractor worth their salt would agree to such a deal.
I have always been amazed at the COG tradition of treating all debt as an evil thing. Debt is only bad if misused or misapplied. Debt allows companies of all sizes and shapes to grow in ways that would take years otherwise.
ReplyDeleteSuch a tradition is ignorance at its finest.
March 9 at 6:49:00 PM: "This will be quite possibly a huge elephant around their necks."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely! Either that or an albatross in the room.
Well PCGs auditorium was originally estimated to cost 14 million. It ended up costing them 21 million. So if COGWA wants anything close to that, it could end up costing them 30 million. Good Luck.
ReplyDelete