Anyone who has been in the Church of God for any time values the friends they think they have made in the church and believes that they will stick by you no matter what happens in life. That might be until you either leave the church or are kicked out by some ludicrous claim by a so-called minister or church leader. Then you quickly learn that those so-called friends are merely only acquaintances. Very few if any continue friendships with those who have been kicked out of teh church due to the draconian rules of control the church has over members. With veiled threats of losing one's salvation if you dare to talk to ex-members, even when passing in supermarkets. Many will see former friends and watch them quickly go to another aisle so that they do not have to talk with each other.
Living Church of God has this up on friendship. It is a strange read considering the number of families and relations broken up by the church and Rod Meredith over the decades. Yet, they have this to say:
Foundations of Friendship: We all want to have friends, yet, sometimes we lack the skills to achieve this goal. However, the Bible provides us with important keys. Solomon wrote that to have friends, we must be friendly (Proverbs 18:24), we must treat people with kindness and have pure motives (Proverbs 22:11), and support others in their time of need (Proverbs 17:17). True friends will tell you the truth and offer wise counsel; they will not use flattery or spread gossip (Proverbs 27:6–17). Real friends are gracious, hospitable, and concerned about the needs of others (Acts 27:3). True friendship involves being willing to make personal sacrifices for others who have needs—Jesus was willing to lay down His life for people He called His friends (John 15:13). Jesus said we can become His friends—if we follow His instructions and His example (John 15:14). This is how Abraham became a friend of God (James 2:23). Let’s strive to become kind, caring, and friendly Christians.
Have a profitable Sabbath,
Douglas S. Winnail
I don't know how things ended up when Armstrongism exploded into splinters, as if spewed from the mouth of God. But, back in the '60s, GTA used to speak of false loyalties. Elaborating on this, he explained that a false loyalty was to one's friends instead of to the church. It really galled GTA that when questioned by himself or one of the ministers, one would care more for a friend, and not "rat" on that friend. I wish I could say that he had said this before he went bad, but the fact is he always lead a dual lifestyle himself. He just hadn't been caught yet. So, we assumed when we heard about these "false loyalties", that he was teaching us what he believed and practiced himself.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, what I found in my own experiences was that there were many people in the church who didn't sacrifice their own personalities for what I used to call the "universal Ambassador personality". Such a personality occurs and exists in a variety of environments, and is reflective of the corporate culture of that entity. It's a way of relating to others so that you are accepted and trusted. I discovered this phenomenon by accident at Ambassador College, when in a counseling session, one of the ministers told me that my classmates did not know what to make of me, and did not trust me. Others who were not willing to sacrifice their own personalities had no problem trusting me. Because those were the people whom I chose as friends, it really didn't matter to me that the people with the UAP shunned me when I left. And, you know what? It felt good to know that there were those who would defy the rules and maintain friendships. I didn't care about the shunners. To me, they were just a bunch of parrots, and cult zombies.
Anon 12:24. Can you elaborate on what a ' Universal Ambassador personality' is please?
DeleteI found your comments fascinating.
Maybe that post by Señor Winnail was partly meant to elbow a tad onto Señor el Bob de la Thiel regarding the huge publicly-announced splinter-off exit Bob made away from LCG. That exit was lavishly garnished with elaborate details posted of gossipy guesses on what Mrs. & Mr. Meredith's strokes were all about.
ReplyDeleteIt might by chance now also apply on how posty & gossipy & guessy Bob was during the "spiritual medical examiner's" entry he closed his books on regarding the recent passing of the late wonderful kind friend Mr. Sasha Veljic.
But I wish Señor Winnail also meant to direct that post onto his mailroom staff who gloated & chortled & guffawed over their own gossipy Wall Of Shame co-worker prayer-request letters bulletin board at LCG h.q.
Douglas S. Winnail's article isn't strange if one considers where he and people like him are coming from. ACOGs ministers primarily use school-yard bully morality to control their members. A drawback of bully morality is that it doesn't work or poorly works on other bullies. It only works on those who play by the rules. So Doug expects his members to be good little boys and girls so that he and his minions can get away with playing dirty.
ReplyDeleteInsisting that others carefully obey the rules while one cheats, definitely gives one a competitive advantage.
The Machiavellian-We-Play-Dirty Church of God.
And yet, Doug has fewer friends today than when he first published this little piece back in July of 2009.
ReplyDeleteOne critical aspect of friendship is to grow alongside your friends as they grow. Doug apparently hasn't understood this, and remains stuck in 2009 (or earlier).
Jesus said we can become His friends—if we follow His instructions and His example (John 15:14) ''You are my friends if you do what I command''. Herein lies the problem - His commands are equated with all the silly doctrines of men.
ReplyDeleteI have a couple of true friends in Church, but the rest are simply acquaintances that I can't count on should things go bad.
ReplyDeleteThis is probably because the majority of people "at church" are not "in the church".
No, I would say that "loyalty to the group" is trumping interpersonal loyalty here. It tells you something.
DeleteTOO MUCH EVIL
ReplyDeleteThere are too many FRENEMIES in the so-called COGs. That is, people who pretend to be friends but are actually enemies.
There are too many FAKE CHRISTIANS in the so-called COGs. That is, people who pretend to have the Holy Spirit but who actually have evil, lying, slandering, malicious spirits.
There are too many FALSE PROPHETS in the so-called COGs. That is, people who pretend to have been sent by God but who were actually sent by Satan.
There are too many IMPOSTER CULTS of the so-called COGs. That is, little splinter groups that pretend to be the one true church but are actually just another satanic imposter cult.
My wife and I left LCG because we came to realize being there grieved the Holy Spirit in us. Only one person still in LCG bothered to keep the friendship. The rest didn’t care. That’s ok. It’s their loss.
ReplyDelete"....Armstrongism exploded into splinters, as if spewed from the mouth of God."
ReplyDelete*******
At the start of the 2300 days - Daniel 8:14?
No, 10:32, at the start of the Laodicean church.
ReplyDeleteMost of us are Laodiceans now, including ministers, because we don't "keep the Word" (Rev 3:8, 10; mentioned twice) diligently as the Philadelphians once did. They might be "good Christians" in the main but they only keep it to a point until image, reputation, money, social status, jealousy, envy, hate, grudges, fatigue, laziness, carnal pleasure, life, family, job, etc. make you do in your brother who needs your help urgently. For the Lord said that if you put all this and family ahead of your covenantal obligations you are NOT a worthy disciple. (Luke 14:26-27)
The Laodiceans think that YOU can't see, are lacking, and are poor when in fact THEY are the ones who can't see (a man's point of view), are lacking in righteousness and spiritual understanding (to do what is right and just). They can't bear to take a fall because of the cost involved yet that is what Christ asks of us and did for us.
As for the 2300 days prophecy in Dan 8:14, it should be rendered 2300 "morning-evening" sacrifice periods, meaning 1150 days, which pertains to the time of Antiochus Epiphanes' desecration of the temple and its cleansing from 168-165 BC (Kislev 15-Kislev 25). There may have been a leap year here in between that adds 30 days to this period or I am missing some detail. Notice too that the angel says that this prophecy that was fulfilled is for the time of the end (Dan 8:17), which some of you ignoramuses would say is a lie, not knowing how to render time. "Time of the end" could be rendered "extremity of time" or "after a time".
So you think Dan 8:14 may have another fulfillment? That is interesting but you would have to make it fit with Dan 12:11-12 whose fulfillment is yet ahead.
12:49: thought-provoking. I counted 1124 days from Kislev 15 to Kislev 25 all-inclusive from the calendar posted on Fred Coulter's website cbcg.org. The WCG leadership about October 1979 seemed to be Laodicean, thought they were rich in the truth, and money, "am increased with goods" including a jet, thought they were God's true church. Dan 12:11-12 could have been fulfilled at the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, Av 10 of the Jewish calendar, to the Masada horror on Nisan 15, believed to be in 74 AD (Josephus, Wars VII,IX,1) when after the Masada slaughter the great tribulation (Mat 24:21?) of the Jews subsided. Av 10,70 AD to Nisan 15,74 AD is 1335 days, all-inclusive.
ReplyDelete11.38 I'm not familiar with the universal Ambassador personality, but I do know that that young members of Jehovah's Witnesses complain about being expected to wear a phony sweat persona personality at their services. Being authentic is a no no.
ReplyDeleteThere's evidence that other denominations do the same.
Many people make the church their god. So when you leave or no longer are a part of their splinter group, its hard to maintain friendships. How can they ask such questions, when the leaderships of splinterdom aren't friends with each other and they went to ambassador college together. Some are like enemies till this day. Winnail is using Abraham as an example. Well Abraham was not only friends with God, he was also friends with three Amorites who he lived next to (Mamre, Eshcol and Aner). See it's about being friends with your neighbor, regardless of the organization you're in.
ReplyDeleteWhen you shun people out who aren't in your organization or just because they are in the mainstream ... then you might handicap oneself like if you're in a famine, financial crisis, no car, become ill.
4:36,
ReplyDeleteYou make Nisan 15, 74 AD the climax event but that was more of an ignominious event. Look at Dan 12:12. It should be a "blessed" event on day 1335 -- not a suicide on a feast day.
Another thing: you assign the trib from 70-74 AD but was it not from 66-70 AD when the temple fell? The revolt started it and the temple defilement essentially ended it, and whatever came after was a result of "being on the run" until 135 AD (for Jews at least).
Another factor to consider is that the abomination (of the temple) occurs 45 days before the blessed 1335th day, according to Dan 12, but under your scenario the time lapse is much longer.
Dan 12:11-12 is still ahead of us.
I have a great many”friends” in the church and several I spend time with outside of services, sabbath dinners lunches etc. Ive had all the brethren over to my home on several occasions and will be hosting the church picnic next month.
ReplyDeleteYou could classify me as one of those who loses/cuts off contact with people when they leave the church. But it’s not done out of malice I simply no longer have anything in common with them. I’m a strange duck, my interests, hobbies and things I do in my job and my spare time do not and have never overlapped with a single person in the church. ( in my 50’s and born in the truth)
God’s Spirit is a spirit of unity and I enjoy every minute with my brethren discussing this way of life and encouraging one another, but when you take that away I’m not going to fake a friendship. If I want to talk about things other than God’s way of life I already have a phone full of people for that.
What if I believe as you do but don’t attend church? Am I uninvited to your picnic?
DeleteWell, 10:26, just 🤮!
ReplyDeletePerfect response 1233. He claims he was “born in the truth” which means he’s completely programmed and he is smug about it.
Delete