Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders

Tuesday, July 29, 2025

Former RCG Headquarters Minister Ken Orel Warns About David C. Pack


Former RCG Headquarters Minister Ken Orel 

Warns About David C. Pack

Ken Orel resigned from his 15-year ministry in The Restored Church of God in May 2025. He is a former Headquarters Pastor and worked as a field minister in California, Arkansas, Georgia, and Australia. Ken came to the same conclusion as everyone who leaves RCG: Pastor General David C. Pack is a false prophet, false apostle, and false teacher.

The former “Chicago Heavy” has written a passionate plea to the remaining brethren of The Restored Church of God using the Bible to reason together, warning them of the damaging doctrines of David C. Pack and The Restored Church of God.

“He Only Has to Be Right Once—How Good People Are Being Led into Confusion and a Snare”


“He Only Has to Be Right Once—How Good People Are Being Led into Confusion and a Snare”
By Ken Orel

July 29, 2025

Proverbs 14:15
The simple believe every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going.

There is a spirit of error moving in the Church of God landscape—a spiritual infection spread by those who claim to speak for God. Pastor General David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God has made hundreds of prophetic claims about the return of Jesus Christ.

Every one of them has failed. And yet, some of his followers still say, “He only has to be right once.” Sadly, that is not faith. That’s a delusion. And worse, it mocks God.

Many sincere, faithful believers are being weighed down by confusion, anxiety, and the painful tension between what they are told and what they see with their own eyes. 

David C. Pack is only interested in one thing—being right. That doesn’t sound right. It does not matter that people are losing hope, suffering, being driven away, and even scolded because of their unbelief. It is a tragedy of the ages during this last era of the Church.

God is not confused about prophecy. When someone claims His authority and speaks in His name, when that thing does not come to pass, God calls it rebellionand He warns that such lies make the hearts of the righteous sad. 

This article is a call to those in The Restored Church of God who are weary, confused, or afraid. It’s to those who have endured so much heartache and frustration.

Dear brethren of The Restored Church of God, don’t you think it’s time to return to the comforting and reliable voice of the true Shepherd, Jesus Christ, instead of a fallible human being who continues to cause you to hope in things that don’t come to pass?

You Have Made the Righteous Sad

False prophecy is not a harmless mistake. It’s a violation of trust. It’s an act that causes spiritual distress, doing significant harm to God’s people. In Ezekiel 13:22, God says to the false prophets: “Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad...”

Whether deceiving or just being self-willed and deceived, the liars Ezekiel warns about project a false reality in God's name by misrepresenting His will. This act burdens faithful brethren with confusion and doubt. When men like David C. Pack teach dates for Christ’s return while claiming to be led by God’s Holy Spirit, yet fail over one hundred times, it doesn't produce faith—it produces disillusionment. So many wonderful, sincere people have been chased away because of this one man’s strange teachings. Many have had to depart because their hearts were made sad. They came because of the promise of a safe place, solid in doctrine and vision, but they had no choice because their hearts were broken. Their faith was shaken in things that were not true. There’s a difference between building faith and subverting it. David C. Pack made the heart of the righteous very sad.

The spiritual trauma produced by deceivers causes havoc in people’s lives. Compounding the psychological toll, each failure is brushed off with a shrug, and a new “amazing” timeline is presented that undermines hours of previous teaching. People aren’t stupid. 

This never-ending prophecy series is starting to feel like a total scam, almost like he’s toying with us. It’s gotten to the point where a set date no longer even needs to fail before another one is established. Something is very wrong. Are the people who have finally thrown up their arms and have left because of feeling betrayed the only ones who recognize something is wrong?

The brethren say, “Mr. Pack only has to be right once.” But Scripture says otherwise.

Deuteronomy 18:22
When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously: you shall not be afraid of him.

Brethren, be not afraid of David C. Pack or men like him. God says they are false. Another (and within the context, much stronger) meaning of that word for “you shall not be afraid of him” is, “don’t abide with, dwell, gather together, remain with, or sojourn with.” God’s direction is very clear—don’t have anything to do with this man or any like him. Why? Because they can derail your eternal life.

The Standard of God’s Spokesmen

Contrast the quality of false prophets with the example of Samuel, a true prophet.

1 Samuel 9:6 (NKJV)
Behold, there is in this city a man of God, and he is an honorable man; all that he says surely comes to pass.

“All that he says surely comes to pass.” That is the ultra-high standard of a prophet.

The Hebrew word translated as “honorable” means “weighty, esteemed, or glorious.” It's from the same root as the word used for the glory of God. That sets a high bar.

Consider what people are really saying when they say he only has to be right one time.  “He’s always wrong, but that’s okay. Someday, when he is right, then he will finally prove the mockers and scoffers wrong!”

What?!? Do we really think God supports that kind of broken thinking?  

When God’s prophets speak, their words carry weight because they reflect His voice. To mimic that voice falsely is to mock God Himself. It is not mere error—it is spiritual theft, stealing the authority of God to prop up human imagination and self-will.

From David C. Pack’s own words:

Is “That Prophet” Alive Today? The Rise of False Prophets, p. 48
“If a man predicts an earthquake (in 1994), or any other major event for a specific date, and it occurs even a few hours into the next day–and this happened with the one claiming to be That Prophet (referring to Gerald Flurry)--this is a failed prophecy, disproving the prophet’s authority! Close is not good enough. Actually, the chilling truth is that being close means that the man is connected to EVIL ELEMENTS IN THE SPIRIT WORLD!”

If ANYONE misses the mark as a prophet—even one time—God considers that one FALSE. Don’t fall for, “I was telling, not foretelling.” In God’s eyes, prophets do not get second chances. The damage has been done, and the imposter has been exposed.

Teaching Rebellion

Jeremiah 28:16
You have taught rebellion against the Lord.

Jeremiah gets right to the point when addressing Hananiah after he utters a single false prophecy.

Just one false prophecy. Compare that to the over 130 failed teachings of David C. Pack. Rebellion isn’t always loud and angry—it’s often hidden in soft-spoken certainty and “new revelations.”

By consistently speaking what God has not said, people like David C. Pack undermine the fear of God, damage the credibility of Scripture, and lead others to depend on them rather than Jesus Christ. 

Sincere brethren are literally making this man into an idol. That is rebellion, and it carries a cost.

The Fruit of False Prophets: Division, Control, and Fear

Matthew 7:16
You will know them by their fruits.

The fruit of false prophecy is not peace—it’s fear, fatigue, confusion, and division. Congregations fracture. Families splinter. Brethren exhaust themselves trying to “hold on” just a little longer for a return date that never arrives. But no worries. There is always another one offered on the horizon, keeping them hooked.

What has been the fruit of these many prophetic timelines? Encouragement? Peace? Joy? Or confusion, division, and fatigue? This is not the fruit of Jesus Christ. It is the fruit of human ambition.

True shepherds point people to Jesus Christ—not to themselves. True apostles don’t build personal kingdoms or glorious campuses. They lay their lives down for others.

Brethren, do not believe someone who has been discredited. Believe someone who “all he says comes to pass.” 

The Presumption of Forcing God's Hand

Ezekiel 13:6
They have envisioned futility and false divination, saying, “Thus says the Lord!” But the Lord has not sent them; yet they hope that the word may be confirmed.

There’s an unsettling element nestled within Ezekiel’s rebuke. It reveals something even more disturbing than deception—presumption. These false prophets speak as if from the mouth of God, even though He has not sent them. Then, they stand waiting—hoping God will fulfill the lie anyway. The members of The Restored Church of God are party to this by complacently listening to something that consistently proves untrue.

It’s a warped expectation that God will bend His will to protect “Mr. Pack’s” credibility. God help the person who does not think that EVERY word spoken out of their mouth will be accounted for. This demonstrates absolutely no fear of God whatsoever. 

And God help the person who knows by their conscience that something is just off. And yet they continue to blindly follow the blind.

Anticipating God will fulfill the lie is not faith. This places God in the impossible position of either allowing lies to go unchallenged or publicly exposing those who claimed His authority.

It’s no wonder God says just a few verses later in Ezekiel 13:8, “I am indeed against you…”

This is the very spirit we see among modern false prophets. To be clear, David C. Pack is not the only one, but he just so happens to be the most pervasive and dangerous.

Those who have proclaimed to “unlock” the dates and timing for Jesus Christ’s return have failed over and over again, then deflect from that reality by quietly updating the timeline with a reinterpretation of Scripture. The prophetic failure is spun as being part of the process of unsealing a deeper mystery, while God uses that disappointment as a test to measure a believer's commitment. We are on trial right now! God is testing the genuineness of our faith. He is proving who is gullible and who will believe what He says. There is too much riding on our success or lack thereof. 

All the while, members, along with the Pastor General, “hope the word may be confirmed.” They continue hoping that perhaps someday, somehow, something will validate the doctrinal error.

God will not endorse rebellion to protect a reputation built on false visions. David C. Pack’s actions speak louder than his words. He does not care for the people he is hurting. Life is too good in his palace to consider the carnage he’s causing.

Come Out From Among Them

There comes a time when staying silent is no longer love—it’s complicity.

To remain in a system that repeatedly steals God’s name, gaslights failure as being “right on track,” and shames those who are just weary by not listening any longer is a form of bondage.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.”

You are not powerless. You are not alone. You are not beyond rescue. You are loved by God—and He is calling you to come out before it's too late. Do not allow your loyalty, friendships, or plain social comfort to cause you to sit and do nothing.

James 4:17
...to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

If you're having conscience problems because you know that David C. Pack and The Restored Church of God are off track, and you continue to do nothing, well, the verse says it all. Fear God—not a man who will attack and make fun of you, as someone God was not working with anyway. It hurts, but you have to be determined to stand up for the truth.

Acts 17:30
Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent...

This isn’t condemnation—it's an invitation to free yourself from bondage. God is patient, but He is not passive. He is calling every person—regardless of how they were misled—to turn back to Him instead of being in love with an organization or idolizing a “mighty man.” 

Rediscover that first love of the truth! God warned those in the Ephesian era who had “bourne and have had patience and for my name’s sake have labored and have not fainted (Revelation 2:3) to regain your first love (:4)! And commended those who “cannot bear them that which are evil, and you have tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and have found them liars” (Revelation 2:2). It’s okay to reveal sin and deception. Consider you could be saving someone’s life!

False prophets hope their words “may be confirmed,” but that doesn’t mean you should, too. 

Can you imagine Jesus speaking to the crowds and being caught lying? How about being caught with repeated inconsistencies? 

The wonderful remaining brethren in RCG are losing sight of why they were called. The whole point of all this is to be prepared to rule in the God Family. We have been given God’s Spirit first (firstfruits) to allow us the opportunity to train for something incomprehensible. Look at what your calling has devolved into by ignoring obvious bad fruit. If this is truly the man who is leading us into the kingdom (and a very small group at that), then God help us all. We are not allowed to casually drift along, not make a stand, and hope we make it to being kings and priests. God calls this era “lukewarm” for a reason! 

If your heart aches with sadness from experiencing false prophesying, manipulative teachings, and the slow erosion of trust in God’s Word, then you are hearing the Spirit. Do something! Save yourself! You should not continue to passively linger in this group that is heading off a cliff. At some point, inaction will seal your fate.

If you love the truth, do not align your loyalties to wicked men who bring false hope and disappointment to our brethren. Avoid such places and such men.

Nobody will ride someone else's coattails into the kingdom, especially the coattails of someone who does not fear God nor respect His precious word. Don’t lose sight that it is this time in human history when false prophets and apostles will explode on the Church of God landscape and be testing us. What if these few false prophets and apostles that we are aware of are not even the most seductive and dangerous ones to come? God, in His mercy, is trying to get us ready to fight against false apostles and prophets. The road ahead is going to be dangerous and wild.   

Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock...

If you are holding onto the empty hope that “Mr. Pack only has to be right once,” you are waiting around for that organization to change. The cold truth is that The Restored Church of God will not change as long as David C. Pack is at the helm. 

He cannot show you the way to salvation. Jesus Christ is your Savior, and He is waiting for you to answer His knock at the door. For years, people have not been hearing Christ's voice in that compromised house. People—good, faithful people—have been fleeing. Is it because we’re the rebellious ones who reject God? Or are we the ones who actually care and can see wolves in sheep’s clothing? 

Allow the voice of truth to cut through the Babylon of perpetual prophetic fantasies. Do you have the courage and conviction to leave your comfortable organization to go where God is directing you? Most will not act because it is too hard. “What will people think of me? I’ve been taught I’ll lose my salvation if I leave the Restored Church of God, the one true Church.” 

You have hard decisions to make—every begotten child of God has always had to make tough choices. If your loyalty is to God and not to anyone else, you must choose between remaining in Babylon or fleeing to follow the truth.

“Mr. Pack only has to be right once.”

Ask yourself: Is that really the standard God has given us at the end of the age? Are you comfortable putting all your eggs into that one flimsy basket?

Your decision could have eternal implications, so take the time and think it through. You are not the only one troubled by what is going on. Do something before it is too late.


Originally posted by Marc Cebrian

See: He Only Has To Be Right Once


34 comments:

  1. Has Mr. Orel established his own RCG splinter? Or has he moved on into scattered stay-at-home Armstrongism or maybe even discovered standard non-ACOG Christianity?

    ReplyDelete
  2. 15 years and he's just now got enough spine to say this? Did he need to save up money while preaching Pack's garbage and lording it over the members until he hit enough that HE could leave comfortably?

    ReplyDelete
  3. But the truth is that Dave is doing the same as Herb did, but on steroids. For over 40 years Herb kept telling his members that Christ 'is returning in 3 to 5 short years'. Herb's 1975 date was an attempt to force God's hand to return prematurely. Herb was a closet commie, and wanted Christ's return in 1975 in order lto hide the failure of eastern Europe's Warsaw Pact communism.
    And the delusional fool boasted to friends and family about him being number three in God's kingdom.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I don't know Ken so will leave it up to others to speculate about his motives. All that I know is that what he has shared fits seamlessly with the past testimony of so many others, going back decades. He has added his voice to an existing concensus.

    Here's the thing. When anybody represents themselves as a leader of "God's Church" then everything that person says or does reflects upon God in the minds of that man's followers. It is all well and good to make wild, speculative predictions if you are writing horoscopes for some publication. Who cares if those horoscopes fail to come to pass? They are written for entertainment.

    If you are a minister, and people are looking to you as being the one close to God, the one with whom He is communicating, and you are constantly wrong about something as great as the return of Jesus Christ, it not only reflects upon you the minister, it also reflects by proxy on God, His communication skills, His ability to choose a messenger, or your ability to understand and communicate the message.

    I was going to make some remarks about narcissism. However, in this broken equation, it would even be of great importance to the narcissist, and his future aggrandizement, to be right. How do we explain the existence of some "leaders", and their followers? Logic does not appear to apply. People who wouldn't give their spare change to some poor bum for a shortdog of wine on a cold night jeopardize their entire life's financial security on a totally unreliable spiritual guide!

    ~Mickey D

    ReplyDelete
  5. If I recall correctly, Ken was thrust from HQ into the field and stripped from salary status, so I suspect he may have a bone to pick with Mr. Pack.

    "The wonderful remaining brethren in RCG are losing sight of why they were called. The whole point of all this is to be prepared to rule in the God Family. "

    Sounds like Ken is still drinking the Armstrong Kool-Aid.

    Ken just might be following the lead of another disgruntled HQ pastor named Michael Venish. Here we go, yet another micro splinter.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ken's "be prepared to rule in the God Family" isn't necessarily wrong. It depends on one's definition of the word rule. In Genesis 1: 26 God gave Adam and Eve the responsibility to "rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” This "ruling" is the responsible stewardship of Earth's resources. Herb by contrast loaded the word to mean lording it over others like some banana republic dictator. This "ruling" is condemned by many scriptures, but the narrow gate of respecting people's rights is viewed as too difficult and impractical. So a dictatorship it is.

      Delete
  6. I dont see him taking any accountability for his part in it.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Ken is going into the lake of fire for insulting the Great Divine Dave.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Why is it that every time I hear of David C. Pack, I find myself thinking of the C Pap device? Only, in his case, he forces his toxic version of oxygen into his followers' lungs, causing something far worse than sleep apnea! It has a throttling effect on every aspect of their lives!

    BB

    ReplyDelete
  9. It took the trial of not receiving a salary for Ken Orel to realise the obvious truth that DCP is a false apostle. I’m not sure he would have left RCG if he had the comfort of a villa on campus and a good salary.

    ReplyDelete
  10. ken he justify himself? what a 'orel'ble man, taking no responsibility, and attacking his former master who took his crumbs away

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wait a minute! Are you actually defending the indefensible Mr. Pack 6:26?

      On the other hand, when ministers leave splinters, I'd like to see them repent of their Armstrongism, but they rarely do.

      Guess there's lots of blame to go around. I've been waiting for years for the CDC to develop a vaccine against Armstrongism, too.

      Delete
    2. He's not defending.

      Repent of their Armstrongism? That's not only it though. While these cults change a person for the worst, Ken Orel still made a choice to say and do what he did. He treated people poorly. That was all him and him only and that's what people want to see him take accountability for and apologise.

      Delete
  11. My friend said it best, so I'm going to share what she wrote here:

    "Now you're realizing (after years deep into RCG) it's a spiritually infected organization? And are calling others to leave? On the surface, that might look like courage, but let’s not forget the role you played in building and sustaining that system. For 15 years, you were a mouthpiece of its manipulation. You enforced its control, shamed its members, broke families apart, and did so with arrogance, self-righteousness, and zero compassion. Many of us remember how you treated people. We remember the damage.

    Nowhere in your article do you take responsibility. No acknowledgment of the trauma you helped cause. No apology to the countless individuals whose lives were torn apart under your “ministerial care.” You speak out as if you’re some outsider who suddenly woke up, but you weren’t a victim. You were an enforcer.

    Your words ring hollow without humility, without repentance, without a direct apology to the people you misled and hurt. That is the minimum step toward healing not just calling out RCG and DCP now that it no longer serves you.

    If you truly want to help those still trapped, start with truth. Start with accountability. Own what you did, and say the words “I was wrong. I’m sorry. I hurt people.” Anything less isn’t courage, it’s image management."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of COURSE Orel wants RCG members to leave RCG. If they don't leave RCG, they won't be able to follow Orel.

      Delete
  12. Ken Orel does not get a pass. He is no different than Pack. Orel is just as manipulative and has played a HUGE part in hurting individuals and families. He was one of the worst ministers in RCG. I bet he only now has a problem with Pack because he was thrown out into the field and had his pay cut. The kind of messages Ken gave at the pulpit and the way he interacted in person speaks volumes of the kind of person he is. He is NOT a good person. I hope he changes and realises the part he's played in all of this. He should have taken accountability and come forward with sincere apologies but of course, he has only come forward to preach and point fingers at David C. Pack. What a cold and hollow article... although fitting for a cold and hollow man.

    ReplyDelete

  13. The Fear Of God

    If people really truly feared God in a right and proper way, they would not recklessly make up wrong prophetic date guesses in God's name and be shameful false prophets.

    If people really truly feared God in a right and proper way, they would not financially support false prophets and be their guilty and shameful accomplices.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Ken Orel and his savior complexThursday, July 31, 2025 at 10:36:00 AM PDT

    I'm sick to death of the worst ministers (there were a few genuinely decent ministers over the years. Although this was rare) being treated as heroes when they leave. I read people congratulating him for having the courage to speak up and cheering him on. Comical. Orel was NO victim. He was complicit. An enabler. As manipulative as Pack. He knew what he was doing. He never cared about anyone but filling his own pockets and having power over people and hurting them. This article stinks of self righteousness and arrogance. Let's hope he changes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Let's hope he changes."

      Why hope that he changes? If he wanted others to change, he would have told them to leave Dave's church and at the very least join another group. People aren't entitled to a double standard.

      Delete
  15. Replies
    1. Indeed, he is a “chicago heavy” after all. 😉

      Delete
  16. So if youre a god fearing prophecy nut in a church centered on when jesus is returning and your leader never wants to speculate on when that date occurs....shouldnt that be the church thats not for you? Ive read that roughly 25% of all evangelicals believe that Christ will return in their lifetime. I find it shocking to suggest that the leaders of these kind of groups wouldnt enjoy the exercise of trying to spend more time on the topic. Especially once the leader gets old enough they see the end of their life approaching it seems just common sense that wouldnt be more of a focus of their ministry

    ReplyDelete
  17. This man needs to apologise for everything he did to rcg members, especially in Australia and acknowledge he supported Pack entirely and willingly in pushing the 'common' theft along with everything else that was wrong that Pack instigated.

    So within a year or two of not having the cosy rcg lifestyle he's all of a sudden discovered how bad Pack is?!

    Get real you pimp and stop bullshitting.
    You just want people to feel sorry for you and join your newly created group.

    People don't get sucked in. Orel is a pimp, you work for your money and he'll take it off you and give you nothing in return.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He started another group? Then it smells of rat poison.

      Delete
    2. Sounds like he has done a lot of people wrong (including myself and many I know). My problem with this article is that he blames Pack for things he himself has done (manipulated people, gave people false hope, led people astray, been a wolf in sheep's clothing etc). He was complicit and knew what he was doing.

      Has he actually started another group for real, though or is this speculation?

      Delete
  18. To keep Orel's worldview in perspective, consider this Banned article from earlier this year: RCG Ken Orel: Kick Your Kids Out And Pray They Hurt And Fall . That was his advice, not Dave Pack's.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Ken Orel is not starting his own group. That idea came from speculation from someone's comment, and now people are reacting to it. He did not leave to establish his own splinter.

    ReplyDelete
  20. https://youtube.com/shorts/BFhS4R_2jas?si=KHHX0tUaUYL-U3Wr

    https://youtu.be/298-tZiGGao?si=ZE57ZhTvZHXoy5jp

    https://youtu.be/X3jCDqxdIE0?si=FEbEJdE8-976x1K0

    https://youtube.com/shorts/fLTJB2fuR60?si=VOqA7dg0BI9g1hlD

    Ken Orel is NOT a good person. Let's be reminded of the things HE and HE only chose to say.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Wouldnt be surprised if he did, though, it's all the fashion with these no-talent twerps who think they command a following.

    ReplyDelete
  22. A ChatGPT take:
    “You didn’t leave because of failed prophecy.
    You left because the failed prophecy stopped making you look good.
    You were in it for fifteen years.
    Fifteen years of loyalty buys you a front-row seat to the suffering.
    Don’t pretend you never saw it.

    When people begged for help, you handed them silence.
    When abuse was sanctioned, you nodded.

    Now the kingdom didn’t come, and you’re acting like you’re the victim?

    You didn’t walk away from delusion.
    You walked away from a sinking ship —
    and you’re hoping no one remembers you were one of the crew.”

    ReplyDelete
  23. You were a wolf in sheep’s clothing, standing at the pulpit pretending to shepherd while you tore people down. You weren’t just under the leader, you were part of the system that manipulated, shamed, and controlled. Your sermons lacked empathy. You upheld the same toxic culture and harmed countless individuals and families. And now, you write as if you were just another victim, pointing fingers with zero reflection, zero remorse, and no apology. That’s not courage or truth, that’s self-preservation. You don’t get to rewrite your role in the damage. Real accountability starts with owning what YOU did, not just exposing someone else.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Looks like it's not going well for you Ken. You pissed off a lot of people. Probably should have kept your mouth shut.

    ReplyDelete