Dave Pack's Monument To Himself

Dagon's Temple rises in Wadsworth Ohio

Meredith Letter To "prophet" Thiel

Dr. Robert Thiel
XXX xxxxxxxxx
Arroyo Grande, CA

Dear Dr. Thiel,

I have carefully read and marked your paper to Dexter Wakefield on the “Chronology
Related to Bob Thiel and Evangelistic and Related Matters.” Since this matter relates
to your relationship with the Church as a whole and your entire future, I have decided
to answer this matter myself. I have prayed that for your own good and your future
reward in God’s Kingdom, you will sincerely ask God at this time to give you an open
mind and willing heart to heed Almighty God’s instruction in Proverbs 15:31-33:
“The ear that hears the rebukes of life will abide among the wise. He who disdains
instruction despises his own soul, but he who heeds rebuke gets understanding.
The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom, and before honor is humility.”

Bob, I have personally liked you, wanted to encourage you and have tried to work
with you for years. However, I have seen that you have had great difficulty in learning
the lessons of deep humility that God wants all of us to learn. With very few
exceptions, nearly everyone who knows you has clearly seen that—although you
have a quick mind and great energy—you have nearly always thought very highly of
yourself and of your own opinions. You have offended or at least “bugged” dozens of
Church members with this very self-important, pushy and “know-it-all” attitude and
approach. So if I, as a minister of Christ for over 60 years and one old enough to be
your father—can help you, I would certainly like to do this. For I love you as a fellow
human being and one I have known and shared a number of hours with in talking
over matters related to the Bible and our entire purpose here on this earth.

However, Bob, your own remarkable vanity and “dreams of greatness” have greatly
affected your ability to think clearly many times. Over the last few years, many of us
have noted that you have begun to think of yourself in terms that are not realistic.
Also, to abet your desires to be a “great one” in the Work, you have carefully and
cleverly twisted and enlarged upon many things people have mentioned to you.
Throughout this entire “chronology” paper you have done this over and over. Recently,
I had a meeting with Messrs. Ames, Winnail, Wakefield and my son, Jim, to discuss
this paper you sent to Mr. Wakefield (and now I see you have also sent it to Messrs.
Tyler and Weston). All of us in the meeting except Mr. Wakefield have gotten to know
you somewhat and have heard many others express concern about your egotistical
ideas that you believe you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses. I will not take the
time to argue about every single point you bring up in your paper; that is not the
important matter. I will just say that over and over you subtly twist, enlarge upon or
exaggerate many of the things you think you heard—some of which you may have
“partially heard” but enlarged upon in your own mind and received in a way that was
not intended by the one doing the speaking. Near the very beginning of your paper
you try to quote Gary Ehman as saying that God has used you to “prepare the
Church” and then you go way beyond what Mr. Ehman intended to say. Then, you did
2
the same thing relating to the January 6, 2000 incident about me saying, “That is you”
in relation to Roman Catholic prophecies. Then, you indicate that you told Davy
Crockett that I was going to be “hit” with something bad to teach me a lesson. Then,
you indicate that the “mini-stroke” I had in September 2008 was in fulfillment of that
prophecy. Bob, I never knew that you had given such a prophecy and never felt that
this min-stroke I had at age 78 was any sort of “fulfillment” of anything you had ever
said! Bob, do you really believe that you “prophesied” to my having a stroke, and that
it was a direct result of my not heeding correction from you? I strongly suggest you
consider Proverbs 16:18, “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a
fall.” Then your letter goes to October 3, 2008 where you say that I said, “God may
consider you to be a prophet.” Bob, as you well know, I had my stroke in September
2008 and was still very weak and disoriented as a result of it. That you would take
anything that I said in that time period and try to use it is not right. I do not ever
remember saying anything like that, and I can assure you that I have never thought
you might be a prophet! But if I did make some kind of statement in this regard, I was
simply trying to encourage you to go on and grow in your understanding of the Bible
and willingness to serve. Then you go to January 2009 where you say I told you that if
I was raised to the office of apostle, I was “considering ordaining Bob Thiel as a
prophet.” That, Bob, is simply not true! For I have never, at any time—considered
ordaining you as a prophet. This is not because I don’t “like” you, but rather because I
have understood for years your tendency to bring in “odd” or “Catholic prophesies” or
put unusual twists on scripture in such a way that no true prophet of God would ever
do.

You are probably correct in your statement that in the Spring/Summer of 2009 I may
have told you that I was “praying for the success” of your prophetic book. For I have
tried to be your friend and encourage you without giving you delusions of “grandeur.”
However, it appears that any encouraging thing that I or most anyone else has told
you seems to be adding to this “delusions of grandeur” feeling you have about
yourself.

Then, in your paper, you go on to describe your meeting with me in Panama City and
later with Dibar Apartian who, you say, “believed” then that God had a top prophetic
role for Bob Thiel. However, all of us who knew Mr. Apartian at that time and have
talked to him many times about these matters know that Mr. Apartian did not think of
you as a prophet. You can easily ascertain that by talking to Mrs. Apartian, Mr. Ames,
Dr. Winnail and all of us. Bob, since you have this powerful feeling of “greatness” you
often “read into” what anyone says. This kind of idea of you being a prophet that is
pounding away in the back of your mind is once again causing you to twist your own
memory of what is said by others.

Later in the paper, you talk about Dr. Fall and Gary Ehman being approached by you
about your desire to “have hands laid upon you” in order to ask for healing and for
wisdom before meeting with evangelists here at Headquarters. As you point out, they
did not agree to do so. Then on December 15,2011 you went to Gaylyn Bonjour and
asked him to anoint you for an apparent physical ailment, but also asked him to ask
3
God to give you wisdom in the upcoming meetings with the HQ Evangelists. He
agreed to do this and, as is his normal approach—he can be emotional and heartfelt
about the matter and asked God to grant you a “double-portion of His Holy Spirit.”
Others have told me that, being partly of French ancestry, Mr. Bonjour is often
emotional and very heartfelt when he anoints anyone. Mr. Bonjour has confirmed he
in no way was intending to ask God to make you a prophet! Yet, because of your
vivid imagination and fervent desire to exalt yourself to that role, you “took it” that
way—as you do so with many other things.

Then you go on to somehow try to indicate that you had special knowledge about how
my wife was to be “hit hard with something.” Consequently when it was announced in
January that she had come down with cancer, you deluded yourself into believing that
you had somehow prophesied this to happen. Nothing could be further from the truth!
She had not been feeling well for months, and the stage four diagnosis indicated that
this cancer had been growing inside her body for many months. Constantly, in your
paper, you seem to be “reading into” events that indicate you were given something
special by God about such matters. Then, you indicate that you feel that “only a
member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet” and use 1 Timothy
4:14 as a proof text. Bob, 1 Timothy 4:14 is clearly, in context, talking about the gift of
God’s Holy Spirit given to Timothy as a Christian—not the office of a prophet.
Certainly, all of us have the laying on of hands by the eldership after baptism to
receive God’s Spirit. But this Scripture is not talking about becoming a prophet, but
receiving God’s Spirit to help Timothy, “be an example to the believers in word, in
conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity”
(v.12).

By “reading into” things that others tell you the idea that you might be a prophet,
you have deceived yourself—willingly of course—so that your mind is now
virtually “fixated” on the idea that you, are a “prophet” of God.

However, what you utterly fail to recognize is that a true prophet of God—in God’s
New Testament times—has always been clearly recognized as such by the ministry
already in high offices in God’s Church; who are shown by Christ—the living Head of
the Church that this person is in that office. Such an individual has always been
cooperative with those doing the Work and has never “set himself up” all on his own
to contradict, to compete, or to be a “lone wolf out there” doing his own thing to exalt
himself.

Although you think you are not like “Ron Weinland” or others who have done this kind
of thing, your present statements and writings indicate that that is exactly what you
are becoming. Therefore, as the one Christ Himself has put in the office of Presiding
Evangelist and leading minister in the Church of God doing the Work of God at this
time, I want to tell you, in love, that you need to realize you are not a prophet, nor are
you recognized as such by the Church or by Christ’s true ministry whom He has set in
authority in His Church. You need to humble yourself and recognize that authority for
your own good. If you end up “fighting” or “competing” with the Work of the living God,
4
God will deal with you and He will humble you in ways that we do not now fully
understand. For “whom God loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He
receives” (Hebrews 12:6).

At my age and in my office for so many years, Bob, I can sincerely tell you that I have
no feelings of hate or competition with you. I simply want to help you “wake up”
before it is too late. I pray that God will help you to understand and heed what I am
now telling you as a servant of Jesus Christ who has faithfully served Him full time for
over 60 years. Please be willing to listen and to heed what I am saying in the name
of Jesus Christ!

Bob, you made the statement in your letter, “…his then pastor (Dr. Fall)…” indicating
that you may no longer consider yourself a member of the Living Church of God. If
that is not the case, and if you are willing to repent, to listen and take correction, and
continue to be a part of the Living Church of God, I do ask you, in Jesus’ name to let
us know. If you are unwilling to heed the loving correction given in this letter, and
insist on cleaving to your view of yourself as a “prophet”, let us know this also and we
will understand that you have chosen to trod a different path separate from the Living
Church of God. At least you can be open and honest about this. As the physical
leader of God’s Church, I have an obligation to protect the brethren from wolves, and
I take this responsibility seriously. If you turn aside and try to draw others to follow
you down this dangerous path, we will have to do everything we can to protect God’s
people.

I have prayed for you and will pray for you much more in the days to come—asking
God to guide you in His love for your eternal good. I do ask you to let us hear from
you as I have indicated above. Our prayers will be with you, not against you. May
God guide you to do His will, and not your own.

With Christian love, Roderick C. Meredith

Bob Thiel: Arroyo Grande, CA Now God's True HQ On Earth

ht:PT

The prophet on the Good Ship Lollipop

Did you know that multiple millions of people have been reached from prophet Thiel's new headquarters in Arroyo Grande, CA?  He claims to be doing a work now on par with HWA's worldwide ministry.  It is a work son to be even greater and more accurate than Living Church of God's.

On a cumulative basis, out of Arroyo Grande (mainly through the internet and radio interviews), millions have been reached. On a cumulative basis, out of Charlotte (mainly through television, printed publications, and the internet), multiple millions have been reached.

But this, even including the growth that we both have had this year, is a mere fraction of Herbert W. Armstrong’s 1971 reach—and even if he overstated the reach, he reached even more in the 1980s than the early 1970s—which is still many times more people than are being reached now. I, like the late Dibar Apartian did, believe that I could assist in not only working on aspects of the message, but in increasing the impact of the efforts in Charlotte through making aspects more interesting, more relevant, accurate, etc. More impact is needed in the 21st century than in the 20th century.

That mantle of evangelism has now been passed to the prophet in Arroyo Grande. At least according to the prophet.  It is now up to the prophet to get that final warning message out.

About a decade ago, Dr. Meredith essentially agreed and stated to me that in the end it would not mainly be the message of the COG vs. the Protestants, but it would be the COG basically vs. the ecumenical religion that will rise up in the end that will likely (for a while) refer to itself as "Catholic." In 2005 during the Feast of Tabernacles in Clearwater Beach, after a private lunch, we and our wives met at his hotel room and I discussed various aspects of the final phase of the work with him. Partially, because of this, a few weeks later I spoke with Dr. D. Winnail about me pursuing more formal education in theology and early Church history (and he encouraged me to do so), and then did so. With Evangelist Richard Ames, I discussed parts of the final phase of the work briefly on the Last Great Day in 2012, and he concurred with Dr. Meredith’s assessment about this phase would mainly consist of the COG vs. the ecumenical “Catholic” faith and less related to the Protestants.

 The prophet wants to reinforce to Charlotte that they have errors in their message and that he can correct those errors.  Isn't a sad shame that those ignorant fools in Charlotte have ignored the message from the prophet!

It remains my opinion that when the European King of the North is publicly identified, and the media picks this up, that this will cause the King of the North to become furious (cf. Daniel 11:28,30). This media attention will magnify at least parts of the message, and likely lead to the final fulfillment of Matthew 24:14. Probably prior to unleashing direct persecution, the King of the North and/or his allies are likely to go through COG literature to look for errors, contradictions, and anything else to discredit God’s Church. This will likely cause the way of truth to be blasphemed (cf. 2 Peter 2:1-2). Real steps should be taken to minimize this.

 Now, I am not saying that any in Charlotte are intentionally trying to teach known error (even though I believe there are doctrinal errors coming from Charlotte). Yet, related to matters of history, Charlotte has intentionally sent out, for one example, church history booklets that contain known error (and still does so). This complicates, in my view, the final phase of the work.

.

Bob Thiel: The Staring Prophet

Did any of you catch this creepy comment by prophet Thiel where he says he stood there staring at Gaylyn Bonjour?

On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding reception, without discussing the matter, Bob Thiel stared at Gaylyn Bonjour for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any idea of what you may have accidently done?”  Gaylyn Bonjour said, “Yes, I think so.”

If I was Gaylyn I would have hightailed it out of the room at that moment. 

Thiel Says: LCG Ministers That Leaked Letter Will Answer to God

After the deluge yesterday of the letter from Rod Meredith to Thiel and various comments to PLEASE post it, the flood gates have opened.  Prophet Thiel says that LCG ministers who forwarded the letter will have to answer to "god" for their insolence.  Bad, bad, bad ministers!  Shame on you!

The prophet writes:

As expected, some associated with the LCG ministry have leaked the 12/28/13 letter to me to anti-COG sources on the internet. They can later try to explain this to God as obviously several with insufficient love of the truth or trust in the word of God would not actually want to first talk to me to find out if these things are so (Matthew 18:15-20). The reality is that that letter contains false accusations, improper statements, and a variety of false statements. The Bible warns against spreading such things, for "whoever spreads slander is a fool" (Proverbs 10:18).

What I find interesting is that after years and years of the prophet writing that Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God does not lie, the prophet is now calling them liars.

Rod Meredith Letter to Bob Thiel On His "...self-important, pushy, "know-it-all" attitude."

Today I received a LOT of copies from various people of the letter that was sent to the ministers in LCG about Thiel. Here are some excerpts from the letter that Rod Meredith wrote to Bob Thiel.

Bob, I have personally liked you, wanted to encourage you and have tried to work with you for years. However, I have seen that you have had great difficulty in learning the lessons of deep humility that God wants all of us to learn. With very few exceptions, nearly everyone who knows you has clearly seen that—although you have a quick mind and great energy—you have nearly always thought very highly of yourself and of your own opinions. You have offended or at least “bugged” dozens of Church members with this very self-important, pushy and “know-it-all” attitude and approach. So if I, as a minister of Christ for over 60 years and one old enough to be your father—can help you, I would certainly like to do this. For I love you as a fellow human being and one I have known and shared a number of hours with in talking over matters related to the Bible and our entire purpose here on this earth.

This is kind of rich coming from Rod Meredith considering HWA accused Rod of the exact same thing.  HWA sent Meredith to Hawaii for a year in order to examine himself and to learn some humility.  Since it did not work for Meredith why would we expect Thiel to deal well with this same issue.

However, Bob, your own remarkable vanity and “dreams of greatness” have greatly affected your ability to think clearly many times. Over the last few years, many of us have noted that you have begun to think of yourself in terms that are not realistic. Also, to abet your desires to be a “great one” in the Work, you have carefully and cleverly twisted and enlarged upon many things people have mentioned to you.

If Rod Meredith and the powers that be at Charlotte saw this happening in Thiel then WHY did they continue to encourage it?  Either they are covering something up or Thiel is lying.

All of us in the meeting except Mr. Wakefield have gotten to know you somewhat and have heard many others express concern about your egotistical ideas that you believe you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses.

Oops, I can see why Bob is not happy with this letter.  It's gets right to the point in naming Thiel's issues and that makes Thiel uncomfortable.

Bob, as you well know, I had my stroke in September 2008 and was still very weak and disoriented as a result of it. That you would take anything that I said in that time period and try to use it is not right. I do not ever remember saying anything like that, and I can assure you that I have never thought you might be a prophet! But if I did make some kind of statement in this regard, I was simply trying to encourage you to go on and grow in your understanding of the Bible and willingness to serve. Then you go to January 2009 where you say I told you that if I was raised to the office of apostle, I was “considering ordaining Bob Thiel as a prophet.” That, Bob, is simply not true! For I have never, at any time—considered ordaining you as a prophet. This is not because I don’t “like” you, but rather because I have understood for years your tendency to bring in “odd” or “Catholic prophesies” or put unusual twists on scripture in such a way that no true prophet of God would ever do.

Ouch!

Bob, since you have this powerful feeling of “greatness” you often “read into” what anyone says. This kind of idea of you being a prophet that is pounding away in the back of your mind is once again causing you to twist your own memory of what is said by others.

Then on December 15,2011 you went to Gaylyn Bonjour and asked him to anoint you for an apparent physical ailment, but also asked him to ask (page 3)

God to give you wisdom in the upcoming meetings with the HQ Evangelists. He agreed to do this and, as is his normal approach—he can be emotional and heartfelt about the matter and asked God to grant you a “double-portion of His Holy Spirit.” Others have told me that, being partly of French ancestry, Mr. Bonjour is often emotional and very heartfelt when he anoints anyone. Mr. Bonjour has confirmed he in no way was intending to ask God to make you a prophet! Yet, because of your vivid imagination and fervent desire to exalt yourself to that role, you “took it” that way—as you do so with many other things.

Looks like the story about Gaylyn Bonjour is not exactly how Thiel portrays it. 

Although you think you are not like “Ron Weinland” or others who have done this kind of thing, your present statements and writings indicate that that is exactly what you are becoming. Therefore, as the one Christ Himself has put in the office of Presiding Evangelist and leading minister in the Church of God doing the Work of God at this time, I want to tell you, in love, that you need to realize you are not a prophet, nor are you recognized as such by the Church or by Christ’s true ministry whom He has set in
authority in His Church. You need to humble yourself and recognize that authority for your own good. If you end up “fighting” or “competing” with the Work of the living God, (page 4)

God will deal with you and He will humble you in ways that we do not now fully understand. For “whom God loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives” (Hebrews 12:6).

Bob, you made the statement in your letter, “…his then pastor (Dr. Fall)…” indicating that you may no longer consider yourself a member of the Living Church of God. If that is not the case, and if you are willing to repent, to listen and take correction, and continue to be a part of the Living Church of God, I do ask you, in Jesus’ name to let us know. If you are unwilling to heed the loving correction given in this letter, and insist on cleaving to your view of yourself as a “prophet”, let us know this also and we will understand that you have chosen to trod a different path separate from the Living Church of God. At least you can be open and honest about this. As the physical leader of God’s Church, I have an obligation to protect the brethren from wolves, and I take this responsibility seriously. If you turn aside and try to draw others to follow you down this dangerous path, we will have to do everything we can to protect God’s
people.

I have prayed for you and will pray for you much more in the days to come—asking God to guide you in His love for your eternal good. I do ask you to let us hear from you as I have indicated above. Our prayers will be with you, not against you. May God guide you to do His will, and not your own.

With Christian love, Roderick C. Meredith

Is LCG's Gaylyn Bonjour The Cause of Thiel's New Found Prophet Status?

Prophet and potential witness of the two witnesses, Bob Thiel, talks some more about himself and how Gaylyn Bonjour from LCG HQ is the cause behind is new found "prophet" status.

• On the morning of December 15, 2011, upon arriving at the Charlotte HQ of LCG, Bob Thiel asked to meet with Gary Ehman as he wanted to get anointed for some non-debilitating matters as well as to ask him to pray that he be granted wisdom for his meetings with the HQ evangelists.  But he was not in.  So instead, Bob Thiel asked to meet with Gaylyn Bonjour (with whom he never had any discussions prior about him possibly being some type of prophet).  Bob Thiel asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he would do the anointing and pray that God would grant him wisdom for the meetings.  He agreed.  But while laying hands upon Bob Thiel, Gaylyn Bonjour also happened (it was not planned nor did Bob Thiel say anything to encourage this) to ask God to grant Bob Thiel a “double-portion” of His Holy Spirit and anointed him.  Bob Thiel then attended a meeting with the evangelists and he did not then have time to discuss what this might mean with Gaylyn Bonjour.
• On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding reception, without discussing the matter, Bob Thiel stared at Gaylyn Bonjour for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any idea of what you may have accidently done?”  Gaylyn Bonjour said, “Yes, I think so.”
• The following Monday morning was Bob Thiel's first opportunity to speak with Gaylyn Bonjour privately for more details about the anointing.  Bob Thiel asked him if it was his practice to pray that God grant a double-portion of His Spirit to people that he anoints, he said, no he had never done that for an individual before.  Bob Thiel asked him if he had any idea of what he may have been inadvertently led by God to do, and he said yes.  Gaylyn Bonjour also said that the only “double-portion” he recalled from the Bible was when Elisha became the replacement prophet and ecclesiastical leader for Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)—Bob Thiel told him then that this was his recollection as well.  Notice it was Gaylyn Bonjour, and not Bob Thiel, who first stated this as a conclusion.
• In March 2012, it seemed time to mention the 12/15/11 anointing and what Bob Thiel had tried to tell him about his wife to Dr. Meredith and he was able to do so in telephone conversation.  Yet, first Bob Thiel called Gaylyn Bonjour to let him know that someone may end up talking with him about the anointing.  Gaylyn Bonjour was fine with that and also said that he felt that the “double-portion” was related to “the passing of the mantle.”  This gave Bob Thiel a lot of pause to consider since that time.
• On March 23, 2012, Dr. Meredith called Bob Thiel and Bob Thiel mentioned the anointing, some of Gaylyn Bonjour’s comments, and the prediction related to Dr. Meredith's wife.  The biggest concern Dr. Meredith seemed to raise was that the anointing was from someone below evangelist or regional pastor level.  But biblically, as he knows, only a member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet (cf. 1 Timothy 4:14) or apostle (cf. Acts 9:10-17).
• In April 2012, during normal personal Bible study, Bob Thiel was reminded about the time when Jehu dismissed an anointing to become king by one of God’s servants because he thought the man was some kind of a nut (2 Kings 9:11).  There were apparently higher ranking ecclesiastical authorities at that time that God did not as directly use.  Yet, that did not change the fact of the ordination, and Jehu became king (and no, this document is not trying to say that Gaylyn Bonjour is some kind of a nut, only that when he performed the anointing he was a duly ordained minister of the Living Church of God and once hands are laid upon someone, this cannot be undone)—hence Bob Thiel concluded that it would be wrong and quite presumptuous of him to overlook or somehow discount what was done.  He personally had been cautious about whether or not he was possibly some type of an evangelizing prophet and getting an unexpected anointing suggesting that role from someone who had no idea that Bob Thiel was praying about that, or possibly in that role, indicated that this could not be ignored.  This seemed to be God’s timing and answer.  Especially because Bob Thiel had prayed about this so much in November and December 2011.
• On June 29, 2012, Bob Thiel conveyed to Gaylyn Bonjour, Dr. Winnail's written comment in that letter suggestion that the conclusion as to what happened when he was anointed by Gaylyn Bonjour on 12/15/12 was “presumptuous.”   Gaylyn Bonjour found it astounding that Dr. Winnail would have indicated that Bob Thiel may have been presumptuous about this.  Gaylyn Bonjour felt that Bob Thiel was exercising proper caution and that to ignore what happened would seem to be against the will, and possibly plan, of God.  Gaylyn Bonjour also stated to Bob Thiel that it is God, and not men, who “appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets“ (1 Corinthians 12:28).
• On August 26, 2012, shortly after agreeing that a variety of errors that Bob Thiel brought up needed to be corrected, Dr. Winnail told Bob Thiel, “We all think that you might be a prophet.”  In order in order to determine who “We all” was, on September 7, 2012, Bob Thiel asked if this was a reference to all three of the LCG Charlotte-based evangelists and Dr. Winnail concurred.

United Church of God on David Barrett's Book About WCG/COG Implosion

UCG has some interesting comments about David Barrett's new book.  Mike Snyder has made a great observation about the break up of the Worldwide Church of God and how it was horribly mishandled.

Book Review - The Fragmentation of a Sect: Schism in the Worldwide Church of God

Michael Snyder notes that the book is a sweeping and generally balanced secular review of the history and behavioral record of the Worldwide Church of God and its related organizations, particularly the disastrous and ill-conceived WCG breakup. For many, reading the book will likely be a painful experience, as while the book is not an “expose,” it does chronicle shortcomings of WCG and other offshoot leaders.

Book Information

Author
David V. Barrett

Publisher
Oxford University Press, USA

Publication Date
2013-01-02

ISBN
019986151X

Recommendation

Michael Snyder recommends this book.

Hardcover, 302 pages

Centered on a secular analysis of what has to be one of the world's most spectacular failures in change management, sociologist and British journalist David Barrett chronicles in this new work how successors to Herbert W. Armstrong deliberately deployed a non-biblical logic of "the end justifies the means" to essentially reverse the theological course of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG).  As Barrett painfully drills deep, the reader sees that instead of bringing the majority of WCG members to a new understanding of Jesus Christ, the incomprehensible act shattered the lives of multiple thousands, leaving in its turbulent wake freshly minted angry skeptics and agnostics, now hostile to God. Perhaps worst of all, as Barrett eloquently outlines, the wholesale betrayal of trust set in motion predictable human patterns where former leaders and ministers skip from church group to church group, finally claiming the "authoritative mantle" of Herbert Armstrong (HWA) for themselves and setting up a "new" one-man rule over an all-new religious group or splinter (page 209).

How quick we forget that Mike was also part of this break up and was the public face for the changes for quit some time. He, along with David Hulme were active participants in the turbulence that left lives shattered.

Mike continues with:

The book has already been reviewed by a number of prominent religious figures, including James Tabor, a liberal American theologian who once served on the Ambassador College faculty. The fact that Oxford University Press has published the book virtually guarantees that it will receive serious attention as an authoritative work on WCG, UCG and other WCG-related organizations.  However, Barrett recognizes that many American evangelical figures regarded the shattering of the Worldwide Church of God  as a politically positive event, noting: "It is a truism that history is written by the victors, and in the case of books about the changes in Worldwide (Tkach 1997, Feazell 2003, etc.) this is at least partially valid" (page 245). Perhaps the true “ironic dynamic” of this phenomenon appears as the catastrophic failure of post-HWA WCG leaders to achieve the religious goals for the majority of members, all of whom had contributed more than $1 billion in tithe contributions in the post-HWA years, but for most now had little to show for it.

"Most have little to show for it."  How true that comment is! There is nothing left but framed pictures on office walls and trophy cases filled with memento's gathering dust, unseen by all.

Bob Thiel: Don't Believe Everything Rod Meredith Says

It seems that Rod Meredith has sent a letter out to the ministry denouncing Bob Thiel and his recent self appointed prophet status.  Meredith denies making some of the comments that Thiel is attributing to him.

Meredith says he might have made some of these statements while in a "sufficiently incapacitated" state of mind after his stroke.  While I discount Bob's self appointed "prophet" status, I am quite sure that Bob's recollection of Meredith's comments are accurate.  This is not the first time Meredith has run off at the mouth and then denied he said something.  The Leona McNair court case is a sterling example of his big mouth. He has a long history of doing this.

From what I have learned, it seems that Charlotte sent an email related to the "Bob Thiel prophetic chronology" (shown in the 12/28/12 p.m. update on this page) to its ministry. This was sent along with a letter from Dr. Meredith in which he flatly denied making certain statements (that he did make) and having certain views that people including himself and Dr. D. Winnail told me that he had. He also suggested that at times he may have been sufficiently incapacitated that I should not have relied on certain of his statements to me. Instead of getting in a "he said she said" battle about this, this tells me that some in Charlotte strongly hope that people will not believe all of the facts that are in the chronology.

The following, which I received in an email today, offers a certain insight that all people who are interested in the truth should consider:

I took the keys and sermon discs etc back this morning to our assistant pastor (Our Pastor is in Australia at the moment). I was expecting to get questioned but wasn’t at that time. Later he rang me back to inform me that he had rung our pastor who told him to contact Charlotte. He was sent the letter that you were expecting to be sent to pastors and they made a big deal about the fact that you were declaring yourself a prophet and one of the two witnesses. I’m happy to say that God answered my prayers and gave me the words to reply to him (I’m not normally good at that). I said to him that it was LCG elders who suggested you might be a prophet and he responded that we shouldn’t rely on what Dr Meredith said after having his stroke. Of course if we can’t rely on that then we can’t rely on what he said in his sermons at that time either. I also told him that Dr Winnail had suggested that he also was one of the two witnesses and he didn’t have an answer to that.

Bob Thiel: I Am Ready To Be One of the Two Witnesses

I find it fascinating to watch the mental deterioration of Bob Thiel.  I am sure he is a pleasant person to be around and is greatly loved by his family so I have to wonder how they are handling this new found prophet status and end time witnesses malarkey that he is engaged in. 

Bob writes today on his blog:

It needs to be understood that while I will accept the type of prophetic role that God anointed me to have (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God), and it is possible that I may end up being one of the two witnesses (see Who Are The Two Witnesses? ), I have never stated that I was one of the two witnesses. If that is God's plan for me, that will be clear around the start of the Great Tribulation--which is probably at least four years away (see When Will the Great Tribulation Begin?).

E.W. King Prophecies Coming True

E. W. is gloating on his blog that the nightmare he had a few weeks about about something big falling from the sky has come true!  It appears a plane crashed in Russia and killed its passengers.  Kings prophecy has come true.....100% accurate so far?..............coincidence?....inspired dreaming?.....ho hum....

In a recent dream that I shared I stated that a “big” plane would “fall” from the sky. I saw a “bird” or “birds” fall with it. The birds represent a small amount of people. I published this dream on December 15,2012 [click to read] and we find out in the news today [12-29-12] that a Russian passenger plane landed too fast and crashed killing eight people.

We read in the news:

"A Russian airliner broke into pieces after it slid off a runway and crashed on to a highway outside Moscow, killing four of the 12 crew on board and leaving chunks of fuselage on the icy road.

 The crash during peak holiday travel before Russia's new year's vacation, which runs from Sunday until 9 January, cast a spotlight on Russia's poor air-safety record despite President Vladimir Putin's calls to improve controls.

 Television footage showed the Tupolev Tu-204 jet in pieces, with smoke billowing from the tail end and the cockpit broken off the front.

 One witness told state channel Rossiya-24 he saw a man thrown from the plane as it rammed into the barrier of the highway outside Vnukovo airport, south-west of the capital, and another described pulling other people from the wreckage."

This is the beginning of what I called “The Marker”. Russia is mentioned in Bible prophecy. Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong stated: “There is a general agreement among students of prophecy that ‘Gog’ in the land of ‘Magog’ is the vast regions of northern Eurasia extending from the Baltic to the Pacific. ‘Meshech’ is Moscow, ‘Tubal’ is Tobolsk. The Bible margin says ‘Prince of Rosh’, which is Russia.” [Plain Truth, April 1981]

Geoff Neilson: HWA and GTA Soon To Be Resurrected To Be Two Witnesses

Geoff has been predicting this would happen for many years.  He posted again today that HWA and GTA will both be resurrected to serve as the Two Witnesses.  Geoff is not an isolated case that believes this.  There are still many in the COG that believe HWA will be resurrected for a final witness.

Note how Revelation 11:1-3 closely follows 10:11,
which indicates that a prophet in the endtime
who had already prophesied to royalty and many nations
MUST DO SO AGAIN.

This can't refer to some supposed Elijah who arrives
at the start of the great Tribulation,
never having prophesied before.

If Herbert W. Armstrong was the apostle to the 6 th church,
by definition he is one of the Two Witness prophets.
There aren't 8th and 9th church/lampstands.
Nor an 8th and 9th messenger.

HWA being the 6th, I deduce that GTA must be the 7th.
He brought more people into the Church than anyone except his father,
and probably was responsible for more becoming Laodicean than anyone else.
Besides, Mr Herbert Armstrong's views about Zerubbabel and Joshua
lend credence to that view;
and to be fulfilled both HWA and GTA must return.

The issue of the difference between Philadelphians and Laodiceans
would most visibly be resolved if GTA came back and
acknowledged the God-given authority of his father,
which would influence many Laodiceans to repent during
the Tribulation.

The Two Witnesses are empowered supernaturally.
Being resurrected (back to mortality)
is not far fetched, nor without precedent in Scripture.
Maybe one reason God gets especially HWA to return
is because of this prophecy in Isaiah 22:29-30

Prophet Bob Thiel's Beef With Living Church of God

Part of prophet Bob Thiel's beef with Charlotte is his dispute with Doug Winnail over wording and phrases used in sermons and in the LCG literature.

Prophet Bob has this to say about Winnail:

In the oral portion of the sermon, Dr. Winnail repeatedly claimed that the USA was established as a Christian nation, the majority of the founders of the USA were Christians, that Christians started nearly all the initial universities, etc. Not "so-called Christians," but "Christians." Does the Living Church of God really wish to claim that Protestants and/or Catholics are Christian? Is this what LCG means to teach? This seems to go against many of your earlier statements and writings. While Dr. Winnail likely did not mean so, why was this allowed to go out in a "must-play" carefully scripted presentation?

Prophet Thiel is also ticked that certain folk in Charlotte thought he (Thiel) was going to bring undue persecution on the LCG:

That Philadelphians should expect persecution (Daniel 11:28-35; Revelation 12:13-14) and not excessively pull-back proclamation to avoid it (I was specifically told that some, who I will not mention now by name, were afraid I, Bob Thiel, could trigger end time persecution, despite the fact that they also specifically teach that the Philadelphians will be persecuted).

That undue persecution is a result of the wandering mind of prophet Bob.  Prophet Bob feels is prophetic utterances are worthy of the LCG promoting.  Because they refused to promote all of prophet Bob's utterances as truth, he has chosen to separate himself from LCG.  Apparently prophets still are without honor in their own churches.

Prophet Bob is also not happy that LCG has given short notice to his books on Mayan prophecy and Obama.  Prophet Thiel still think his books are the worlds foremost authority on its topics.  Even the Catholics are too stupid to understand what he wrote.

Prophet Thiel still is really hung up on football.  This will be a doctrinal statement and belief of the Continuing Ed Church of God.  Members, especially children of members, will not be allowed to play tackle football.  Football will become a major sin in this new personality cult.

Do not believe that any in the ministry should promote the sport of American Football (the Bible, in Romans 13:9-10 clearly teaches "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law"). HWA also specifically warned against this violent sport. There are other "love" issue matters.

All blame for the rise of the Continuing Ed Church of God lies squarely on the shoulders of Rod Meredith and Doug Winnail.  To go around and encourage a member that they were doing prophetic things and to keep telling him he had a gift of prophecy was appallingly stupid.  LCG deserves whatever flack they receive from prophet Thiel's escapades.

Bob Thiel's Blog Hacked Revealing the Secret Motives of the Coo Coo Church of God

I  received the following today from the group Anonymous.  Apparently Thiel is of interest to Julian Assange.

12/28/12 p.m. For the past year or so I (California Coo-Coo) have wondered if perhaps the Living Church of God had lost the Philadelphia mantle. To be 100% certain, I have been trying to resolve many matters with those in Charlotte and telephoned Carolina #1 Coo-Coo every day this week.

Instead of speaking with me, a few hours ago I received a factually incorrect letter from Carolina #1 Coo-Coo.

Based upon its tone, numerous inaccurate statements, accusations, and his unwillingness to address the real issues that I wanted to bring up, this letter is 100% proof (to me at least) that my view that the Living Church of God lost the Philadelphia mantle in 2011 or 2012. I am saddened by this development and had hoped to avoid having to make a variety decisions. But, God’s will is to be done (Matthew 6:10; 1 John 2:17).

About an hour ago, I signed various notarized documents to declare the start of a new organization. It is legally to be called the Continuing Coo-Coo Church of God Overseer and successors, a corporation sole (COO-COOCOG).

Next week, the corporate documents are to be filed–but legally it now exists as a real church. The late Herbert W. Armstrong formed a corporate sole in the 1970s and this seemed to be the best available option for me in California.

We expect to best represent the true remnant of the Philadelphia era of the original Church of God that began on Pentecost in Acts 2 (c. 31 A.D.). Beliefs of the COO-COO-COG.

The following may help show how I could be possibly qualified to do this:

• • The Apostle Paul wrote, “Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy” (1 Corinthians 14:1). This is something California Coo-Coo has attempted to do, as well as pray about, for decades.

• • In 1996/1997, the then local GCG airhead figuratively twisted California Coo-Coo's arm to get him to start the website that is now COGwriter. In 1998, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and others with LCG encouraged California Coo-Coo to expand and continue COGwriter, etc. It later became the most popular member website of any associated with the COGs and has long functioned as an Coo-Coo tool. COGwriter, directly, as well as indirectly, has helped bring many to the COG in general and LCG specifically. Since 1998, the website’s focus has been to support the Philadelphia remnant and to expound prophecy. It has produced fruits (Matthew 7:15-16).

• •On January 6, 2007, after hearing about a reference to a Catholic prophecy about a former Roman Catholic rising up and causing the Church of Rome problems at the end times, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo told California Coo-Coo, “That is you.” During this particular visit to Charlotte, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo discussed both the evangelical and other fruits of California Coo-Coo’s writings.

• • In August 2008, California Coo-Coo told Arkansas Poo-Poo, that if LCG was not going to deal with certain matters that he felt needed to be corrected (and that Carolina #1 Coo-Coo had seemingly agreed to correct), that part of its top leadership (likely Carolina #1 Coo-Coo) was about to be hit with something bad.

• • In September 2008, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo had his mini-stroke. Arkansas Poo-Poo seemed to feel that this could have fulfilled California Coo-Coo’s warning.

• • On October 3, 2008, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo (who was unaware of that August 2008 warning), told California Coo-Coo, “God may consider you to be a Coo-Coo.” This came from the Carolina #1 Coo-Coo of the Living Church of God.

• • Later in October 2008, California Coo-Coo tried to counsel with Dibar Apartian and Dr. Hairspray about this. Dibar Apartian initially strongly denied Carolina #1 Coo-Coo said this (but of course, as he was not part of it; he did not hear the conversation). A couple of days later, he calmed down, came up to California Coo-Coo, and said that he was either “the one” or the “biggest threat to the church.”

• • In January 2009, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo told California Coo-Coo over the telephone that if he (Carolina #1 Coo-Coo) was raised to the office of apostle, he was considering ordaining California Coo-Coo as a Coo-Coo.

• • On February 4, 2009, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo told California Coo-Coo over the telephone, “You have an in-depth understanding {of prophetic matters}—you could be a Coo-Coo.”

• • After California Coo-Coo asked him for a reminder announcement related to a fast, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo sent out a Church Fast Reminder email to ministry, March 20, 2009, which stated:

Also, we are told to pray for the Holy Spirit. And God shows us in His Word, “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues” (1 Corinthians 12:7-10).

• • Shortly afterwards that fast, perhaps after gaining more wisdom and prophetic gifts, during the Spring of 2009, California Coo-Coo acquired a difficult to attain book that he did not know existed previously (not available in regular bookstores or Amazon) on Byzantine (Greek Orthodox) Catholic prophecy. While he had been aware that certain old Roman Catholic prophecies seemed to possibly point to him personally, one or more ancient Byzantine ones, combined with certain biblical ones, seemed to be too specific to ignore. And they got him to look more into related biblical prophecies on the subject.

• • In late Spring/early Summer 2009, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo told California Coo-Coo he was praying for the success of California Coo-Coo’s prophetic book 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect.

• • In the Summer of 2009, Dibar Apartian told California Coo-Coo, in quite a positive tone, that Carolina #1 Coo-Coo had been stating in meetings that California Coo-Coo may be a Coo-Coo.

• • Because of Dibar Apartian's statements, later that Summer or perhaps early Fall, California Coo-Coo asked Carolina #2 Coo-Coo, if he was part of top LCG level discussions stating that California Coo-Coo may be a Coo-Coo. He said yes.

• • Around this time California Coo-Coo had an apparently prophetic dream perhaps reminiscent of Joseph's dreams (Genesis 37:5-11) and Isaiah's vision to be sent (Isaiah 6:1-8), that somewhat like Peter's vision (Acts 10:17) he did not immediately understand, but like Peter (Acts 11:4-17), it seemingly became clearer once circumstances in the time since presented themselves and began to confirm it. 

• • To reduce the possibility of misunderstanding the Catholic and Byzantine predictions, as well as biblical prophecies related to the King of the North and God's witnesses, California Coo-Coo asked all the HQ Coo-Coos as well as his then local Coo-Coo (Dr. Hairspray) if they thought that it was possible that Satan or some of his demons could have seen any of Daniel’s visions or the revelation that the Apostle John observed.

• • Sometime after he got “possibly” or “perhaps” as an answer, in 2010 California Coo-Coo mentioned to Dibar Apartian that there seemed to be certain Roman Catholic and Byzantine prophecies, viewed in the light of Bible prophecy, that pointed to himself personally. Dibar Apartian then instructed California Coo-Coo to speak to Carolina #1 Coo-Coo. So, he contacted Monica Cormier who arranged for Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and California Coo-Coo to later have a private lunch meeting at the Feast of Tabernacles in Panama City.

• • In the late Summer of 2010, California Coo-Coo asked Dibar Apartian if he still thought California Coo-Coo was “the greatest threat to the church or 'the one.' “ He said California Coo-Coo was not the threat and said that he would try to talk to Carolina #1 Coo-Coo about California Coo-Coo’s prophetic situation, but it is not clear how, or even if, he did before he died later that year. But what was clear to California Coo-Coo was that Dibar Apartian (God rest his soul) believed then that God had a top lahdee-dah role for California Coo-Coo.

• • In Panama City in October 2010, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and California Coo-Coo met. In that meeting, California Coo-Coo mentioned one or two of the non-biblical prophecies to Carolina #1 Coo-Coo that seemed to point to California Coo-Coo—and Carolina #1 Coo-Coo advised caution (basically waiting for additional confirmation).

• • At the Feast of Tabernacles in Glenwood Springs in a private meeting related to literature corrections that California Coo-Coo requested, California Coo-Coo and Carolina #2 Coo-Coo also discussed the idea of California Coo-Coo being a Coo-Coo and one of the two Primo Coo-Coos (Carolina #2 Coo-Coo mentioned he had felt that he once thought that he, Carolina #2 Coo-Coo, would be one of the two Primo Coo-Coos). Carolina #2 Coo-Coo stated that he wanted to see additional confirmation related to California Coo-Coo and that this should be clearer over time. Carolina #2 Coo-Coo also commented that he felt his evangelical fruits were comparable to the evangelical fruits of California Coo-Coo.

• • In November and December 2011, California Coo-Coo counseled with his local Coo-Coo Dr. Hairspray and Gary Fudd Ehman about these matters. California Coo-Coo told both of them that he thought that he needed to have hands laid upon him again in order to validate the view that he might be some type of a prophet. They both told him that, in their view related to being a prophet, baptism was scripturally sufficient. While that sounded logical, the statement from the Apostle Paul to Timothy about getting hands laid upon him (1 Timothy 4:14) gave him personal pause. And that caution led to him pray more about it. Thus, instead of concluding that he had sufficient anointing, especially considering the relative enormity of some of the ramifications of this as a conclusion, he searched the scriptures and concluded that, perhaps like Gideon (Judges 6:36-40), that he would seek further outside confirmation, and preferably God would provide that from Charlotte.

• • On the morning of December 15, 2011, upon arriving at the Charlotte HQ of LCG, California Coo-Coo asked to meet with Gary Fudd Ehman as he wanted to get anointed for some non-debilitating matters as well as to ask him to pray that he be granted wisdom for his meetings with the HQ Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos. But he was not in. So instead, California Coo-Coo asked to meet with Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo (with whom he never had any discussions prior about him possibly being some type of prophet).

• California Coo-Coo asked Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo if he would do the anointing and pray that God would grant him wisdom for the meetings. He agreed. But while laying hands upon California Coo-Coo, Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo also happened (it was not planned nor did California Coo-Coo say anything to encourage this) to ask God to grant California Coo-Coo a “double-portion” of His Holy Spirit and anointed him. California Coo-Coo then attended a meeting with the Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos and he did not then have time to discuss what this might mean with Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo.

• • At another meeting with the Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos on December 16, 2011, Carolina #1.2 Coo-Coo prayed, with “Amen” concurrence from Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and Carolina #2 Coo-Coo, that California Coo-Coo would continue to do the work that God has had him do, etc. He also specifically called California Coo-Coo's writings/work “an additional bucket of poo-poo.” Hence, there was a concurrence with the evangelical and prophetic fruits of that work. The Charlotte Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos again promised to get to certain literature corrections that California Coo-Coo had brought up repeatedly overthe years.

• • At this 12/16/11 meeting, other matters related to California Coo-Coo and prophecy were discussed, including the fact that by then world events had already aligned with at least 20 predictions in California Coo-Coo’s book 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect. Additionally the fact that some of his speculative predictions about Karl Guttenberg and Julia Gillard that had come to pass since the October 2011 meeting with Carolina #2 Coo-Coo was also brought up. Since Carolina #2 Coo-Coo asked the most questions related to the prophetic fruits, he and California Coo-Coo also met privately about it.

• California Coo-Coo's private comment to Carolina #2 Coo-Coo was that perhaps the Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos should consider if those accurate speculative predictions are just coincidental or possibly the fruits of a prophet. Carolina #2 Coo-Coo seemed to discount that then, and later, despite the biblical admonition to not despise prophecies (1 Thessalonians 5:20).

• • From sunset 12/16/11 to sunset 12/17/11, the able faithful in LCG fasted, etc. A passage of scripture that California Coo-Coo read and re-read then was 1 Timothy 4:14-16 which he felt was more personal than ever then.

• • On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding reception, without discussing the matter, California Coo-Coo stared at Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any idea of what you may have accidently done?” Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo said, “Yes, I think so.”

• • The following Monday morning was California Coo-Coo's first opportunity to speak with Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo privately for more details about the anointing. California Coo-Coo asked him if it was his practice to pray that God grant a double-portion of His Spirit to people that he anoints, he said, no he had never done that for an individual before. California Coo-Coo asked him if he had any idea of what he may have been inadvertently led by God to do, and he said yes. Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo also said that the only “double-portion” he recalled from the Bible was when Elisha became the replacement prophet and ecclesiastical leader for Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)—California Coo-Coo told him then that this was his recollection as well. Notice it was Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo, and not California Coo-Coo, who first stated this as a conclusion.

•  • Later on 12/19/11, California Coo-Coo felt compelled to try to meet with Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and tell him that it seemed his wife was to be hit hard with something and to discuss other matters. Because of other meetings he and California Coo-Coo both had that day, this type of meeting did not happen.

• • A few weeks later (Carolina #1 Coo-Coo’s letter dated 1/12/12), California Coo-Coo learned that Carolina #1 Coo-Coo's wife was stricken with stage four cancer. This seemed to confirm his earlier view (cf. Jeremiah 32:6-8).

• • In March 2012, it seemed time to mention the 12/15/11 anointing and what California Coo-Coo had tried to tell him about his wife to Carolina #1 Coo-Coo and he was able to do so in telephone conversation. Yet, first California Coo-Coo called Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo to let him know that someone may end up talking with him about the anointing. Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo was fine with that and also said that he felt that the “double-portion” was related to “the passing of the mantle.” This gave California Coo-Coo a lot of pause to consider since that time.

• • On March 23, 2012, Carolina #1 Coo-Coo called California Coo-Coo and California Coo-Coo mentioned the anointing, some of Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo’s comments, and the prediction related to Carolina #1 Coo-Coo's wife. The biggest concern Carolina #1 Coo-Coo seemed to raise was that the anointing was from someone below Twinkle Toes or Pooper Scooper level. But biblically, as he knows, only a member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet (cf. 1 Timothy 4:14) or apostle (cf.Acts 9:10-17).

• • In April 2012, during normal personal Bible study, California Coo-Coo was reminded about the time when Jehu dismissed an anointing to become king by one of God’s servants because he thought the man was some kind of a nut (2 Kings 9:11). There were apparently higher ranking ecclesiastical authorities at that time that God did not as directly use. Yet, that did not change the fact of the ordination, and Jehu became king (and no, this document is not trying to say that Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo is some kind of a nut, only that when he performed the anointing he was a duly ordained Coo-Coo of the Living Church of God and once hands are laid upon someone, this cannot be undone)—hence California Coo-Coo concluded that it would be wrong and quite presumptuous of him to overlook or somehow discount what was done. He personally had been cautious about whether or not he was possibly some type of an evangelizing prophet and getting an unexpected anointing suggesting that role from someone who had no idea that California Coo-Coo was praying about that, or possibly in that role, indicated that this could not be ignored. This seemed to be God’s timing and answer. Especially because California Coo-Coo had prayed about this so much in November and December 2011.

• • On June 3, 2012, California Coo-Coo sent Carolina #1 Coo-Coo a letter urging him to get involved on various literature and other matters that he and the other Charlotte Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos had agreed to in the December 2011 meetings (as well as earlier). Carolina #1 Coo-Coo had Carolina #2 Coo-Coo respond, which he did with a letter dated 6/28/12, but which contained various improper statements (including improperly condemning California Coo-Coo for improper presumptuousness), and which did not resolve the matters--Carolina #2 Coo-Coo suggested various officially published errors were unimportant (cf. Revelation 3:14-19).

• • On June 29, 2012, California Coo-Coo conveyed to Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo, Carolina #2 Coo-Coo's written comment in that letter suggestion that the conclusion as to what happened when he was anointed by Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo on 12/15/12 was “presumptuous.” Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo found it astounding that Carolina #2 Coo-Coo would have indicated that California Coo-Coo may have been presumptuous about this. Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo felt that California Coo-Coo was exercisingproper caution and that to ignore what happened would seem to be against the will, and possibly plan, of God. Carolina Foo-Foo-Coo-Coo also stated to California Coo-Coo that it is God, and not, men who “appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets“ (1 Corinthians 12:28).

• • On July 14, 2012, California Coo-Coo watched Carolina #2 Coo-Coo's “Slap My Ass and Call Me Sally” sermon, saw that Protestant commentaries were often the basis for many statements made, etc. and it made him more strongly wonder if the mantle had been dropped and passed. Watching that sermon quickly resulted in changes at the COGwriter.com website and resulted in personal changes--including privately suspending my membership in LCG (I continued to cooperate and had hoped thatthey would properly address matters so that I would decide to reinstate my membership).

• • Later, on August 1, 2012, California Coo-Coo read a December 1986 Good News article by Leroy Thistle Snifter who wrote how to tell the differences between a true prophet and an imposter; and the next week, he found a Q&A titled “How else can we know if a person is a prophet of God?” covered in the September 1965 edition of the Plain Truth and an article on the laying on of hands in the April-May 1965 Good News. It seems that according to them, California Coo-Coo meets the true, not imposter, prophet criteria. Including having the fruits of a prophet like Jesus discussed (Matthew 7:15-16) (more on this matter is in an article at COGwriter.com titled How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God).

• • On August 7, 2012, LCG spent money in a seeming attempt to try to prevent California Coo-Coo from possibly taking certain website steps, while California Coo-Coo continued to try to assist Charlotte in making various literature corrections.
• • On August 26, 2012, shortly after agreeing that a variety of errors that California Coo-Coo brought up needed to be corrected, Carolina #2 Coo-Coo told California Coo-Coo, “We all think that you might be a prophet.” In order in order to determine who “We all” was, on September 7, 2012, California CooCoo asked if this was a reference to all three of the LCG Charlotte-based Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos and Carolina #2 Coo-Coo concurred.

• • Yet, on September 6, 2012, with possible disregard of Matthew 18:15-17 and matters of prophetic authority (1 Corinthians 12:28), Carolina #1 Coo-Coo publically criticized California Coo-Coo without previously discussing the related matters with him; nor did Carolina #2 Coo-Coo take certain steps related to promises related to doctrinal matters (Revelation 3:14-19).

• • During the Feast of Tabernacles in October 2012, Honolulu Coo-Coo made a public statement in a sermon that seemingly contradicted Carolina #2 Coo-Coo’s testimony on August 26 and September 7, 2012 regarding prophets.

• • On October 8, 2012, California Coo-Coo briefly met with Carolina #1.2 Coo-Coo to try to figure out how to get various matters (Carolina #2 Coo-Coo’s “Slap My Ass and Call Me Sally sermon,” literature errors, and the final phase of the work) dealt with. California Coo-Coo followed up and over the next two or so months provided information to Charlotte as he promised Carolina #1.2 Coo-Coo.

• • On December 14, 2012, California Coo-Coo sent the Charlotte-based Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos an email, with an attached paper, on the Final Phase of the Work. (this was the last item to finish those that he promised Carolina #1.2 Coo-Coo on 10/08/12). In the email, California Coo-Coo asked if those in Charlotte would correct various errors and asked if they wanted to work closer together or become more distant.

• • On December 15, 2012, California Coo-Coo saw a sermon from Carolina #2 Coo-Coo titled “Watch and Get Ready,“ in which Carolina #2 Coo-Coo, after referring to Protestant “commentaries“ declared that those who did not agree with his “Slap My Ass and Call Me Sally“ position were “blind to reality.“ This resulted in additional changes to some of the pages on COGwriter.com, etc.

• • Throughout the next week or two, California Coo-Coo put together a variety of items that he wanted to go over with Carolina #1 Coo-Coo concerning improper statements to the members, literature errors, broken promises, etc. to give Carolina #1 Coo-Coo a last opportunity to try to explain how LCG could possibly have not lost the Philadelphia mantle, but the real issues were not dealt with.

• • By December 22, 2012, reported events in the news had aligned with at least 32 predictions in California Coo-Coo's 2009 book titled 2012 and the Rise of the Secret Sect. Many, many more, not in the book, but in various posts on the internet, have also been confirmed. And while many (in the book or on the internet) would be considered common COG beliefs, many were more specific than the COG has tended to proclaim.

• • After receiving a letter emailed to him from Carolina #1 Coo-Coo (12/28/12) where he denied making statements that California Coo-Coo had documented in notes over the past several years, California Coo-Coo informed the regional LCG Pooper Scooper for the Arroyo Grande, CA area that he would no longer host a videogroup on behalf of LCG, other than to have a final service for those who are part of LCG on 12/29/12, as it was now 100% clear to California Coo-Coo that the Philadelphia mantle was not with LCG.

The fact is, that unlike the self-appointed leaders with COG-ties (like Ron Weinland, etc.), California Coo-Coo was told by the Carolina #1 Coo-Coo of the Living Church of God that God may consider him to be a Coo-Coo, to continue his evangelical efforts (and was also told to do that by others, including Carolina #1.2 Coo-Coo), that he (Carolina #1 Coo-Coo) possibly should have anointed California Coo-Coo to the office of a Coo-Coo. It seems that, perhaps because Carolina #1 Coo-Coo personally did not anoint California Coo-Coo, God took steps to get that anointing done by a properly ordained member of the eldership.

While God did have Ananias (described with the title of “disciple“ in Acts 9:10, probably a minister-level individual) lay hands upon Paul, no title was recorded as being given to Paul at that time (Acts 9:17). Yet later, Paul wanted to make it clear that he was an apostle because Jesus chose him, not any human organization (Galatians 1:1). Nor did he feel “inferior“ to the more “eminent apostles“ (2 Corinthians 11:5). Does this not have some parallels to what happened to California Coo-Coo? No man or group had gotten together to agree to anoint him with a “double-portion” of God’s Spirit in December 2011, but it did happen.

Carolina #2 Coo-Coo and others have stated in the past that Christians should “connect-the-dots” and that is something that seems to make sense here. As far as “prophetic fruits” go, California Coo-Coo has asked all the Charlotte Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos, “How many accurate speculations does it take before it counts?,” without getting an answer. He has also asked, “If I have ever shown myself to be a false Coo-Coo, please explain how or why,“ also without getting an answer.

What humans conclude related to California Coo-Coo's role does not, in one sense, matter. It is God who appoints true church leaders (Ephesians 4:11) “for the edifying of the body of Christ” (Ephesians 4:12).

What really does matter is God's will (John 7:17) and our submission to it (James 4:7). And it has not totally unfolded how He will work all the details out—but God’s plan will be accomplished.

The Bible is clear, “God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets…” ( 1 Corinthians 12:28) “And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some Twinkle Toe Coo-Coos, and some pastors and teachers” (Ephesians 4:11).

To the pure, all things are pure (Titus 1:15).

An article of possibly related interest may be: How To Determine If Someone is a True Coo-Coo of God There are many false Coo-Coos. How can Christians determine who is a true Coo-Coo?

 

Here is a draft that I hope to finish next week on beliefs: Draft Statement: Beliefs of the COO-COO-COG.