From Exit and Support:
PCG Should Be Investigated:January 28, 2017The letter concerning Mark Saranga and his daughter Alicia breaks my heart. What a cruel and ruthless thing to do. I am reminded of what Jesus preached about the prodigal son and how he treated the lady at the well, and many of the other wonderful things He did for sinners. Flurry claims to preach the gospel to the world. What gospel? One of destroying the family? There is certainly no love, grace and truth in what he and his ministers preach. By not preaching the true gospel the PCG is twice cursed according to the Apostle Paul.Now that Obama and Clinton have been taken care of and the USA has a Christian and Jewish supporting President, we who are suffering under the PCG rules should contact our new president and request him to have this so called "church" investigated for breaking any law on child care and have the IRS do a financial audit on them. I cannot remember when last we saw audited accounts from the PCG or any of their branches around the world.I remember many years ago that the FBI were very interested in H Armstrong and the WCG. --W.
FBI Files on Herbert Armstrong:
March 29, 2006
I once met with and talked with Anthony Buzzard. I find that his connections (mentioned in the report you link to) are v6ery interesting. I marked some in red for quick perusal. I used to talk to Gene Bailey and I was the one that told him about the files on the WWCG with the FBI, etc. He later tried to obtain them, but they were blacked out and the information hidden. However, I obtained and viewed the files from the early 1970s that weren't blacked out. I had written the Un-American Activities Commission in 1972 and received information that HWA and WWCG were under surveillance and suspected of UnAmerican activities. I also received a letter from the Congressional Library.
This all documents the connections between the evil powers of the underworld and the WWCG. --Former WCG member [name withheld]
Comment: The report being referred to is The Conspiracy Was Strong - The Discernment Ministries. Herbert W. Armstrong and Anthony Buzzard and their connections are mentioned in Parts 1-3. (Just search for the words "Worldwide Church of God" in Pt. I.) The FBI files on Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Rader are mentioned. Anthony Buzzard was formerly a lecturer at Ambassador College in Bricket Wood, England. The Ambassador Report #48, May 1991, has a section entitled, "The FBI's Files on the WCG." Ambassador Report #51, October 1992, followed up by saying these files were later released to Gene Bailey but with much blacked out. It is alleged that many groups known as "cults" have a hidden agenda and work together to create a passive people. (Read this part in the Rules of Disinformation which talks about the CIA being involved in Waco and Jonestown.) They have similar methods of deception and abuse are often fronts for intelligence activity. Read more about this and WCG / HWA activities from OIU Newsletter #6, pt. 3.
The article about the FBI interest is here: The Conspiracy Was Strong
They probably are being investigated, quietly, with information shared only on a "need to know" basis. At some time in the future, a researcher could request information under the Freedom of Information Act, and receive redacted copies of the reports.
ReplyDeleteThe key element is not whether the radical behavior of the ACOGs and their members are being investigated, but whether steps would ever be taken to enforce child protection laws on these groups. If Mark Saranga were perceived by the Feds as being subversive by the federal government, the issues with his daughter would be added to the case against him, much the same as failure to wear seatbelts is an added violation to a speeding or DUI citation. Unfortunately, though, it isn't considered important enough to pursue as primary enforcement.
BB
Rumors of Jesuit (Mario Hernandez) and CIA (Bill Bowmer) infiltration of Rod Meredith's sect have gone around for years. It stands to reason that the other larger ACOGs have also been infiltrated.
ReplyDeleteBarbara Aho is one of those people who sees a "conspiracy in everything" types and is an unreliable source for anything. Here is her website
ReplyDeletehttps://watch.pair.com/watch.html
This comment has no relation to the above post, but I was so impressed by Anon's comment on January 25th that I felt a need to double-down on it this morning. I congratulate the anonymous writer of this comment, and wish I had the skill to produce such a piece. It says so much, so simply!
ReplyDeleteHard to believe a person, once a part of the WWCG could put this much honesty in so few words. Thank You!
Anonymous said...
Adding to what Dennis said...
Science doesn't really deal with truth per se, but with provisional certainties, with, based upon everything that is known on the cutting edge, what is probably true. Truth of the dogmatic variety is not a feature of science, despite the equivocal language or conspiracy theories that many religious people will use to make it sound like science is dogmatic.
As a result of its provisional nature, sometimes "scientific truth" gets overturned by additional observations. Although many religious people will speak as though this is a weakness, it is actually it's greatest strength, for it is through this process that science advances. The observations we are able to make are always limited, and no matter how big our picture may be, it is always incomplete, and there is always room for that picture to get a little bigger, and as it does, our best explanation of the previous evidence may be confirmed, or it may be falsified. Time and time again, nature has showed a capacity to surprise us, although I think that says more about us than it does about nature. The universe is always speaking, and scientists are watching and listening, and when it says something unexpected, scientists are responsive.
The religious mindset, on the other hand, is not responsive. It begins with dogmatic answers instead of questions, and refuses to relinquish religious "truth," often in the face of overwhelming evidence of its falsehood. Many religious people think faithfulness to predetermined dogmatism is their greatest strength, but it is actually their greatest weakness. Religious people are never watching or listening, so much so that they deny that those who are could possibly be onto something.
While god is limited to an ever-receding pocket of ignorance in general, for the individual, their pocket of ignorance does not recede. In fact, long after ignorance has been swept away by scientific inquiry, many will fight to preserve the natural habitat of their god—the pocket of their own personal ignorance. They will deny knowledge that infringes upon that terrarium of ignorance in which they keep their supernatural menagerie. Outside of that, in the words of Laplace, they, like everyone else, "have no need of that hypothesis": demons are no longer the source of epilepsy or disease, the pinpoints of light are no longer gods, and divine favor is no longer required for the sun to rise each morning. The supernatural was squeezed out of those niches too long ago. But within the purview of their minds, they will not permit the gods to be evicted from niches vacated in modern times, no matter how overwhelming the evidence for that eviction might be.
Science is not a form of religion and on the flip side, religious ignorance is not a form of knowledge.
January 25, 2017 at 11:57 PM
Bravo!! Wish I had said that!
When we wake up in the morning and already know everything, learning is impossible. Fortunately, men and women of science know they do not know. They resort to observation, experimentation, and updating their data base as new evidence is discovered. Evidence is the friend of science; faith is its enemy. Life can be exciting when we accept how little we really know.
The FBI kept a file on Einstein too because of all his communist connections and the lies he told to get into the USA and become a US citizen. But the government didn't have the guts to go after him because the lying plagiarist had a lot of lying supporters and useful idiots in the media. Do they have the guts to go after Flurry? Maybe when he has fewer TV channels. Maybe HWA had too many TV channels for the government to go after him so they sold us all down the river.
ReplyDeleteThe feds went after Dr. Gene Scott on a much greater level than any government ever went after HWA. They seized three radio stations which were estimated to be worth $15 Million at that point in time. Dr. Gene rebuilt his broadcast empire, and at one time, he was on the air 24-7. So, high profile and followers do not necessarily protect you from the existing power structure. And by the way, Merle Haggard, friendship with GTA aside, was actually a member of Dr. Scott's church.
DeleteI was just thinking today, thank God that there is television. If it were not for the good wholesome family programs on TV, most of us who were raised in Armstrongism would have no real knowledge or concept of what parents even are. Even the Bundy kids were better off than we were! I bet the Saranga girl probably wishes she could have parents like Al and Peg Bundy!
BB
Armstrongism has always been communist in nature. Read this:
ReplyDeletehttp://hwarmstrong.com/british-israelism/bi-deceit.htm
You may all note that in spite of the documentaries that have been televised about Flora Jessup's experiences in the FLDS where she said on TLC that the leaders routinely killed babies who didn't match up to their 'standards' and buried them in the back yard, in spite of how many times Dr. Phil has exposed the House of Yahweh for what they have done, no matter what authorities have discovered about Scientology, the Federal Government still hasn't moved to prosecute them (well, OK, Warren Jeffs is in prison for 200+ years and Yisrayl Hawkins and his brother did have some legal problems and Mary Sue Hubbard (who was second in command in Scientology), was convicted of perpetrating what was at the time the largest incident of domestic espionage in the history of the United States), you are not going to see any major concerted effort by any Federal Agency to take down and prosecute any cult after what has happed in various incidents, including but not restricted to the Branch Dividians at Waco April 19th, 1993.
ReplyDeleteWe have entered a time when the government tends to leave religions alone, even if there are severe legal issues because the execution of arrests and prosecution can get mighty dicey.
And you can partially thank Stanley Raider and the Worldwide Church of God for that.
BB, I love the idea of a FOIA request against PCG. I'm trying to think of a basis under which it could be done.
ReplyDeleteAs a "church," I assume PCG claims tax-exempt status. Though I don't think they're a 501c3 (correct me if I'm wrong), if they are tax exempt some records may be subject to request.
If records were part of a criminal investigation against PCG, I'm not sure they would be requestable under FOIA until they were filed in court.
If charges against Saranga resulted in a social services case, I'm unclear on whether they are FOIA eligible.
Got any other ideas? I'd love to hear them.
I'm thinking that someone with a lot more disposable time than I, and a deeper penchant for research would need to get into this topic of FOIA, Martha. And, if we do this, we enter a whole new realm in which we become far more dangerous to the ACOGs than simply commenting on their activities and attempting to hold them accountable.
DeleteFrom an historical perspective, I have to remember that what set one ACOG splinter leader off about ten years ago, was that someone uncovered official government records to the effect that during training exercises in the Viet Nam era, he had turned and fired upon his own troops. Forums and blogs that linked to those records were shut down. For a few days, all of us who did not have one another's email addresses were cut off from one another. Douglas got shut down. Gavin, too! And the Painful Truth.
If we decide to pursue this, we'll need to plan it intelligently.
BB
Gerald,
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with your 11.10 AM article is that it fails to differentiate between today's Christianity which Christ would consider mostly Pharisaic, and bible morally. Many scriptures instruct Christians to prove all things and acquire understanding. In fact Christ stated the scientific method with His 'you shall know them by their fruits.'
How scientific is it to lump together quack Christianity, and the real McCoy. You present us with a dishonest package deal. Your orgasmic rejoicing is premature.
ReplyDelete“Flurry claims to preach the gospel to the world. What gospel? One of destroying the family? There is certainly no love, grace and truth in what he and his ministers preach. By not preaching the true gospel the PCG is twice cursed according to the Apostle Paul.”
Gerald Flurry in his plagiarized and revised “little book” known as Malachi's Mess. said that with a new church era comes a new commission to the church to “warn the Laodiceans.” By simply calling it a new commission rather than calling it a new gospel Gerald Flurry was able to slip in this unbelievably massive doctrinal change away from what HWA had taught. Gerald Flurry did this satanic trick while praising HWA and pretending to be faithfully standing up for what HWA had taught.
As the apostle Paul pointed out so correctly, this new commission of Gerald Flurry's is REALLY no gospel (meaning “good news”) at all! Gerald Flurry and his ignorant and wicked supporters will definitely be under the apostle Paul's double curse on those who PERVERT the true gospel.
610 PM. I always thought it common sense that someone should 'warn the 'Laodiceans' after half of the church members stopped attending services after Joe took charge. Ironically it was Pack who in his writings at the time, correctly pointed out that these people had simply fallen away. The Laodicean label was too kind. And the claim that only one sliver is now the true church is obviously untrue.
ReplyDeleteAs I understand it, the Living church still denies that a falling away has occurred.
I don't think warning those who fell away for a few years (ONLY FOR A FEW YEARS), was unreasonable.
Anon 5:42 PM, thank you for your sexual metaphor, and public rebuke for my premature orgasmic reaction--are you related to Rod?? This is not the first criticism I have received for a premature orgasmic reaction, but it is the first time I have had to read about it on a public forum.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing scientific about Jesus or the Bible. Do you believe it is scientifically possible to turn well water into wine?
And by the way how do you identify the Real McCoy?? There are so many who claim that role. You obviously feel you have found the Real McCoy, and see yourself as righteous.
Gerald,
ReplyDeleteIf God can create the universe out of nothing (the big bang or whatever), turning water into wine is simple. God can after all, easily manipulate matter. Keep in mind that since God has defined and created the laws of physics and chemistry, He is not necessarily bound by them.
Christ defined the Real McCoy as those who do Gods will. They are the true church.
It is our responsibility to see ourselves accurately, so if a person is righteous, that should be their self image. The greatest taboo is self love. It is often expressed on this blog. I hope you are not pushing it with your comment.
Anon 2:08 PM, which church have you determined is God's true church? Does it have a name and a human leader?
ReplyDeleteNice to know that God is not obligated to obey his laws. I guess that is why it is A-okay for him to have killed so many people, as related in the Torah.
Gerald,
ReplyDeleteThe head of the church is Christ. He leads every Christian individually, so no human leader is absolutely necessary. These true Christians don't all go to one physical church, but rather are scattered. So there is no one true physical church.
I said God is not necessarily bound by His physical laws, not His moral laws. The creation of the universe must have involved the temporary suspension of the physical laws as we know them. Notice how Christ when ever possible, honoured His physical laws. For instance, He didn't need the water to create wine, but He did so since wine is mostly water. He honoured reality in this way.
God is just in His dealings with humans. It's pure action-reaction. It's sin that destroys, not God as such.