The church has for decades sent out a mixed message when it comes to the members putting their talents to use. On one hand, we were encouraged to use our talents to the best of our abilities. These talents were "God given" and were to be nourished, but on the other hand, the church regularly beat down and diminished many members talents, deeming them unworthy because they just "might" interfere with the directives of the ministry. In no manner were members to ever interfere in matters relating to theology. God forbid if you were a nurse or doctor! You might be needed to take care of someone on the Sabbath. Be a Policeman? No way! Fireman? Nope! You just might need to be called in on Friday night or Saturday and that CANNOT happen. Being a Good Samaritan on the Sabbath is forbidden!
Wired into WCG culture was a notion that individual initiative on anything that actually mattered, such as with social or creative consequences, was not to be done outside the control of a top-down hierarchy. Even something as innocuous as a member organizing a book discussion group or an Amnesty International letter-writing group was unthinkable. A person feeling an internal calling to become a teacher or counselor or clergy to others, no matter how good and pure their intentions might be (to help people), would also be regarded as a threat by the hierarchy unless the hierarchy wanted to invite them. Was this why the concept of listening inside for one's "personal calling" was deemed illegitimate?
HWA had an anti-intellectual bias, and that included professional doctorate degrees too. Combined with a culture that demanded "permission" for some of the most mundane things like dating, car purchases, moving and the like created a dependency mindset.
ReplyDeleteHierarchy produces this type of situation. It is the concept that there is only so much of Gods Love to go around, only so much prestige, authority, or wealth, and that someone else's gain means that there is "less for you".
The truth is that the universe is vast, that untold amounts of wealth and accomplishment can be had by many and that the Sacrifice of Christ and Gods grace and love for us is unbounded as well.
Great teachers and mentors encourage their students to surpass them and then take great pleasure when they do. Hierarchy pushes people down and suppresses, and is full of jealousy, paranoia, and envy.
Some of my relatives are thugs and bullies. Their behaviour and attitudes are no different to the ministers. The only difference is that ministers try to deceive their victims into believing that it's biblical and God approved.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Connie seeing the problem as hierarchy. It's just lawlessness.
This is consistent with the fact that they only partially understood 2/3 of God. Lack of understanding of God the Holy Spirit made authoritarianism necessary, and partial understanding of God the Son made legalism necessary.
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDelete"Why has the COG culture deemed "personal calling" illegitimate?"
Because their bastard children. They are not part of the elite. They wish they were, but their not. They are the children who support their less than worthy elders.
Byker Bob,
ReplyDeleteFor the most part, your posts on this site seem to be intelligent, thoughtful, humorous and well-written. I much appreciate your sincere and dedicated attempt to help those trapped in the CoG splinter groups to find a way out, as you and I have done. You are an admirable man, and you have my respect.
It puzzles me however, that I believe I remember reading that sometime after you left the WCG, you became an avowed atheist, and then after months or years of further consideration, you decided that mainstream Christianity is where you are most comfortable. I am wondering if your atheism was an emotional choice because of how you were burned by Armstongism, or if there was an extended study and reasoning process that led you to disbelieving in God?
I was a tepid, marginal believer in Jesus and the Bible for 32 years after I left WCG, and in 2005, I began to seriously question it all. I have not declared myself to be atheist, but I am certainly agnostic and skeptical of all things miraculous. My "beliefs"
are very fluid, and easily changed with the latest, most convincing book or article. I am not ashamed to admit that I don't know what life and the universe are all about, and I am no longer uncomfortable knowing I don't know.
However, now that I know what I do know, I could never again be a "believer", even if I wanted to. At times I realize it would be easier to know I am going to heaven to see all my old relatives and friends when I die, and that could possibly happen, and would be nice, but I have zero faith that it will happen. I just don't see how a real atheist could ever go back to believing the Bible and expecting the return of Jesus. Maybe you were just mad at God for a while. Blows my mind!
Of course, belief in Jesus helps us explain to ourselves death, how to live forever, the end of war and suffering, prosperity and good health for everyone and all the rest, but it is all based on a book that is not reliable, and exalts a God who exhibits the worst traits of man.
You seem too intelligent to leave religion and return to the made-up stories of the Bible. Maybe you had something you viewed as a miracle in your personal life, or you made a vow. I don't know, but I could never recognize a lie and then later believe it again. What happened?? Is it a case of "Pascal's Wager"?
I am curious, and do not intend offense.
Sorry to be so personal, but you are an enigma to me.
I don't know that I have any satisfying answers for you, Gerald. Neil Young was once asked about the eclectic body of work that he has produced, and the various phases he has gone through, the different bands he's worked with, and why when he enjoyed great success he didn't continue with material in that same vein. His reply was that his life was a journey in which he was just following the music. Ice T, responding to the same sort of question, said that he basically got into one thing at a time, maxed it out, and then went on to the next thing. I suppose my explanation for my own life would run along the same lines expressed by these two gentlemen.
DeletePeople tend to make strawmen out of Christians. Especially ex-COG people assume Christian = "fundamentalist", or staunch believer in legalism and fantasy. I, on the other hand, am informed by many disciplines, such as science, logic, and literary analysis in addition to the saving power of Jesus Christ which for me ties it all together. I reject stupid, readily disprovable theories which somehow were the backbone of Armstrongism, and the ACOG world view. I believe that as mankind has matured and gained a higher level of intelligence, God has modified His approach to His human children and transitioned past the methodology or explanations which he used in working with the ignorant sheep herders of the Bronze Age.
If there was a miracle in my life that changed my line of thinking, it was what happened with my son. My son was a career criminal who at one point had a life expectancy of perhaps 6 months of freedom on the street between each offense and being locked up in jail or prison. Nothing I tried to try to help him worked. During one such stint of freedom, a young lady in his life introduced him to Jesus Christ, and that changed his whole outlook on life. He seemed to change almost instantly, eventually getting his GED, pursuing a legitimate career which involved starting his own business, obtaining a college degree, getting married and having children, totally reprioritizing his life. I watched this as an agnostic, scarcely believing what I was seeing, and had to make room in my mind for some totally new lines of thought and possibilities.
Basically, we all have a choice. We can align ourselves with goodness, positive people and things, follow our gifts and use them in such a way as to impact society around us in good ways, or we can align ourselves with negative influences. This can be done passively with little thought, or deliberately in thinking ways. Christianity is not monolithic. It is as varied a creative life process as there are individual Christians. You really can't distill it down as a philosophy to one ridiculous set of conditions for the purpose of dismissing it, although you will obviously always be able to find people who fit various stereotypes. But, that's true of humans and the human condition in general. There are both luminaries, and completely simplistic individuals in every walk of life. And people in various stages in between.
Anyhoo, that's the best I can do in so many words. Up until about ten years ago, I was always one of the disruptive kids in God's classroom, and did a lot of crazy things, kind of messed with all the people around me, and didn't really care. My son's attitudes and behavior were a symptom or perhaps exaggerated mirror of what was going on in my own cranium. But, these days, I'm a lot less like Nebuchadnezzar during his time of punishment, be that allegorical or literal. And while it feels somewhat better, there is always room for further dynamics, i.e. growth and improvement. It's anything but a dead end.
BB
Gerald Bronkar calls Byker Bob an enigma.
ReplyDeleteI see nothing wrong with that. Some of my best friends are enigmas.
Far as we know BB is a white guy. Shame on Gerald for using racial slurs around here anyway.
DeleteHey BB,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your explanation, detailing why you returned to Christianity. I have two sons who are Christian, largely because of the influence of their girlfriends, who later became wives and mothers of my grandchildren. They are wonderful people and have awesome families, so I can somewhat relate to your situation. I know they wish I shared their faith. I just cannot pretend to believe something that now seems so far-fetched.
I go to a mega-church almost every Sunday with my devoted Christian wife, and listen to the messages. Some are valuable, some, not so much. The threats of hell fire, the Rapture could occur at any moment, and Jesus is the only way are messages of exclusivity. These attitudes are so wrong in on so many levels. If there is a loving God, he didn't send Jesus to die for just a select few who repent and become Christians. We are all in this boat together.
I am not anti-Christian, and do appreciate the good many Christian people bring to our communities. Saving marriages and families, and turning individuals away from alcohol, drugs and crime are positive and commendable activities. I believe these actions are plentiful in and outside of Christianity. I don't feel we must believe in the Bible, Original Sin and the sacrifice of Jesus to have a positive influence. I think my family and friends know I am a good person, and in the end, will not suffer the wrath of God. We all want to think we are the chosen elect and special, but that is all a figment of our imaginations. True religion is loving and helping our fellow man, no matter our chosen religious designation. Right now we can see it in Southeast Texas and Louisiana.
I feel I know you a little better. Thank you for your response.
By the way, I also am an enigma, and my beliefs are written in the sand.
Sounds good, Gerald. Your posts always give the impression of careful thought and measured presentation. It is obvious that you did not come of age with the anger issues with which so many of us had to deal as a result of our WCG upbringing. You mentioned a previous history with COG-7 in another thread. I'd have to believe that your parents were probably well immersed and set in the family culture taught by COG-7 prior to going with WCG, and that therefore you and your siblings were not subjected to the worst aspects of the WCG child-rearing principles. Seems like those "sardis" folk had much to recommend them, but then HWA's ego led him to rebel and to start his splinter group, and it was all downhill from that point on.
DeleteAnyhoo, good on ya, and best wishes for a wonderful Labor Day Weekend!
BB