Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
▼
Friday, September 1, 2017
Dave Pack: God Has Chosen Not To Heal Me Just Like He Did Not Heal Mr. Armstrong
Is Dave Pack starting to realize how mortal he is and that his prophecies and teachings are slipping out of his hands unanswered?
But first, let’s go back to Hebrews 11 one more time. I’m having my faith tested. I guess, in some ways, it’s testing your faith that…my health. I regret that, but if God is putting us all through a little bit of a fire because of my health, my heart, you can see I’m preaching, I don’t fear. I don’t! I remind myself of Paul preaching on the island…Was it Melita?…and a viper bit him and he just shook it off into the fire and kept going. That’s the way I feel about it. I remind myself, and talk to my wife about that verse. We’ll see how it all plays out. If God for His own reason does not choose to heal me any more than He chose to heal Paul or Mr. Armstrong, I’m in good company. We’ll see.
But whether it heals naturally or…regarding these problems. I am told that with a simple procedure…I could possibly walk out and never have a problem again. So I’ve got an interesting two weeks ahead of me. I trust God, not men, but I’m going to go ahead with it. So I’m living by faith and I know we’re all in the saddle together.
Loma D. Armstrong's life reprotedly could have been spared with a simple procedure.
It will be interesting to find out what Pack is suffering from, and whether it is something chronic or perhaps terminal.
One thing is certain, although he appears in reasonable shape for being 69 years old, Pack is no spring chicken, and when he does have his ultimate demise the Restored Church of God will fall apart, as there is no heir apparent, or crown prince in the wings.
Is he saying that he's got heart problems? Will he get this procedure, or do as was preached during much of the history of Armstrongism?
This is an interesting event in the life of David Pack, in that he projects that he has got a unique understanding, that he is the only one who has this understanding, and that it is his commission to spread it. It appears either that we may have an opportunity to see about all of that in the near future, or that Dave is once again seizing upon his tendency to be a drama queen. I say drama queen because most real men hold their health issues secret until it is no longer possible to do so.
A simply procedure could have cured the wife of the initial owner of The Painful Truth blog, but the ministers assured them that God would heal. She died. Why aren't the ministers following their own advice? One standard for me, another for thee.
The quote from Florence Nightingale is another example that Herbs 'give way' doesn't work. The ministers know this, but as long as this game of the unjust steward boosts membership temporarily, they don't care. A callous thing to do.
Byker Bob writes: It appears either that we may have an opportunity to see about all of that in the near future, or that Dave is once again seizing upon his tendency to be a drama queen. I say drama queen because most real men hold their health issues secret until it is no longer possible to do so.
Dave is not a real man. He's a parasite living on the ass of mankind.
It doesn't pay to speculate on the nature of what he won't share openly but it is obvious Dave is wrestlihng with the classic dilemma what's wrong for the goose is wrong for the gander. He is basically saying. "I have a serious health issue. It is easy to fix. I trust God just so you know. But I am scared and want to live so I'm going ahead with it. I trust God not men and live by faith and I know you all are onboard with my decision to get help and won't criticize me for lacking faith for healing even though I have often thought that of some of you. Besides, my wife is a nurse which, interestingly enough, is just what I will need."
James 5:14 has caused so much uncalled for misery in all it's simplistic and ignorant glory.
So that nutrition business he cheated his siblings out of isn't going to save him now?
Dave's "played doctor" over the years with various church members, myself included, in my case falsely accused relatives of poisoning me because they didn't follow his "natural" cures....in my case he was totally wrong, my family was right! I'm alive today in spite of Dave, not because of him
He's not having to take now what he's dished out in the past...
James 5:14 uses a Greek word, translated as "sick", which means sick to the point of death. This word was used of Dorcas in Acts. It was used of Epaphroditus in Phillipians. And of Lazarus. In the ACOG culture we cheapened this sacrement of anointing the sick. They were hardly ever sick in the James 5:14 sense. Secondly, we have normally had one elder do it when James said call the elderS. Plural. I suspect the reason was so that healings wouldn't be attributed to a man.
I also notice that Jesus' healings were all instant with one exception. I have had that instant healing from what I just called the cheapened application of James 5:14, but neither the elder involved nor myself knew better.
For Heart conditions, Armstrongism is very clear: Grapejuice Diet - No Doctors! One minister allowed the substitution of Grape Soda for Grapejuice (see TIME magazine "Garner Ted Where Are You?")
Anon 755 wrote If ... he's obviously making a mountain out of a molehill, probably to draw sympathy and increase donations....
I remember in the Clarion Call sermon Dave read part of HWA's infamous dying Loma letter. He said he envied HWA's powerful writing style, which was to invoke fear and guilt in the reader for not sending him enough money. If there is any possible way for Dave to get another cent out his followers, he'll find it!
The question asked was: "Is Dave Pack starting to realize how mortal he is and that his prophecies and teachings are slipping out of his hands unanswered?"
And the answer is: "Perhaps yes and yes; time will tell!"
Dave, via another spirit (James 4:5) has been preaching another Jesus (& some Mickey Mouse Millennium of that Jesus soon reigning on earth rather than being at His Father's right hand) and another gospel ($$$$$) of self: himself! But this world will not revolve around Dave like he thinks and like he has been preaching to others.
Dave Pack, like so many others, believes he can impress (con?) God and will GET salvation by his own works and doing things his own way.
Oh, but his god is some dummy that seems to be too ignorant to know if Dave (or leaders of the xcogs...Kubik, Franks, Flurry, Winnail, Weston...choose a name!) has done enough to qualify???? Hence, the test! Huh?
Dave wrote: "I’m having my faith tested." My faith? That's a huge problem. Dave proved his faithlessness when he left his ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena's WCG (yes, along with the likes of the leaders of the xcogs...Kubik, Franks, Flurry, Winnail, Weston...etc. My faith does not cut it and never will. Isn't Dave aware that God weighs the spirits? If so, then why some test?
We used to be told the Sabbath was a test too. No, it isn't and it never was.
If Dave had God's faith, then Dave would not be talking about testing. There is a confidence with God's faith (Galatians 5:22), which comes from God Himself by His Spirit as a gift of fruit and it comes by the measure/proportion (Romans 12:3, 6) that God dishes out. If God does that with His faith, and He does, then why would He be so dumb to test it? It sounds like Dave is striving to con God. Dave may con others for their $$$$$ (And it is God or mammon; it can't be both), but God will not be conned.
Dave said: "...first, let’s go back to Hebrews 11 one more time."
Why? Hebrews 11 illustrates what God accomplished in the lives of individuals that He had given out His gift of faith to so that God's will was accomplished. None of the listed individuals did anything on his/her own...anymore than Jesus Christ did and He knew that of Himself He could do nothing!
Will Dave Pack do more than any of them with his so-called "my faith?" Absolutely not.
Dave says: "I don’t fear." Stop lying to us b/c you do fear! Here are some of Paul's words:
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; :15 And deliver them who through FEAR OF DEATH were all their lifetime SUBJECT TO BONDAGE.
Not only is Dave in bondage, he strives to put others into his bondage...bondage to SELF!
Dave, I have some good news for you from a real Prophet: Jeremiah.
"Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise." Jeremiah 17:14
I have faith The God, that LORD, the One that the Word was with from some "beginning," will heal Dave (although Dave cannot avoid death...too many sins in his life...like the rest of us mortals), but a question remains: WHEN?
Dave thinks he is in good company with Paul and Mr. Armstrong. SELF again! What about the rest of us? Yes, they will live again and be healed (Jer 17:14), but Dave??????
God doesn't heal swindlers. His ministers must be debating who will get his compound if he dies from the operation. I'll be the old Zorba the Greek movie where the townspeople were stealing a old woman's future as she lay dying on her bed. Before they bury Dave and his body is still warm, his minions will be dividing his defrauded loot.
I can't help but speculate despite what Dennis said. Now the heart is often the curse of the big (tall) man because despite being athletic and strong looking the heart is created equal. It does seem that the small man has all the advantages when it comes to the heart. There is not much difference in the size of the heart regardless of body size and the large man may find his heart gives out earlier than the small man. Yes it has to pump a lot harder for all those years to circulate blood up and down a 6ft 7" body (I know the Packman is tall), than for a man of say only 5' 6".
Athletes are known for dropping dead from over stressing their hearts. Often they are extremely tall and may have inherited heart defects more common in very tall people, then they push themselves to perform more and more. Add to this some sort of power shakes guaranteed to add muscle and strength, and wham, sudden death on the sports field.
In Dave Packs case he should realise he had better follow the doctors advice, they do seem to know how to fix hearts and extend life by 10 years or so. Lets hope he keeps his bp controlled and pays attention to cholesterol which can block the hearts blood supply very quickly. This stuff cannot be cured with diet, it is mostly genetic.
The mystery illness. So much drama. Is more of what this insecure wanna be is always about; look at me, listen to me; worry about meeeee meeee meeee. Real men deal with it. Dave wants the spotlight no matter what. He is always making shit up. Faker.
Awesome comment, 8:14! His false prophecies fail, giving him zero traction. So, now, its "Look at me!!! I'm sick like Mr. Armstrong! Listen to me! Love me! Send me your common!"
Huh!!? "I trust god, not men, but". Maybe a good anointing Dave, or some prayer. I mean, why would god let his only true apostle suffer with health issues. Go to the doctors Dave. It's really your best hope and you know it. If it was anyone else, that'd be different. But since its you and you are more important than everyone else, you better let the doctors save your hypocritical ass.
The viper that took a bite out of Paul was more than likely not poisonous. Just letting packman know.
ReplyDeleteLoma D. Armstrong's life reprotedly could have been spared with a simple procedure.
ReplyDeleteIt will be interesting to find out what Pack is suffering from, and whether it is something chronic or perhaps terminal.
One thing is certain, although he appears in reasonable shape for being 69 years old, Pack is no spring chicken, and when he does have his ultimate demise the Restored Church of God will fall apart, as there is no heir apparent, or crown prince in the wings.
Yes Connie, if Worldwide fell apart with the death of Herbert Armstrong, Pack's pack will certainly fall apart in his absence.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he has a heart problem....he hasn't got one.
ReplyDelete"When something bad happens to me, it's a test. When something bad happens to you, it's a punishment."
ReplyDeleteDoes Dave's ailment have anything to do with his claim that his teachings will go viral?
ReplyDeleteIs he saying that he's got heart problems? Will he get this procedure, or do as was preached during much of the history of Armstrongism?
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting event in the life of David Pack, in that he projects that he has got a unique understanding, that he is the only one who has this understanding, and that it is his commission to spread it. It appears either that we may have an opportunity to see about all of that in the near future, or that Dave is once again seizing upon his tendency to be a drama queen. I say drama queen because most real men hold their health issues secret until it is no longer possible to do so.
BB
A simply procedure could have cured the wife of the initial owner of The Painful Truth blog, but the ministers assured them that God would heal. She died. Why aren't the ministers following their own advice?
ReplyDeleteOne standard for me, another for thee.
The quote from Florence Nightingale is another example that Herbs 'give way' doesn't work. The ministers know this, but as long as this game of the unjust steward boosts membership temporarily, they don't care.
ReplyDeleteA callous thing to do.
whatmeworry wrote Yeah, he has a heart problem....he hasn't got one.
ReplyDeleteI thought Dave was the Woeful Wizard of Wadsworth, but I guess he's really the Tin Man.
Byker Bob writes: It appears either that we may have an opportunity to see about all of that in the near future, or that Dave is once again seizing upon his tendency to be a drama queen. I say drama queen because most real men hold their health issues secret until it is no longer possible to do so.
ReplyDeleteDave is not a real man. He's a parasite living on the ass of mankind.
Good comparison, James. If Dave Pack had a spirit "animal" it would have to be the dung beetle.
DeleteBB
It doesn't pay to speculate on the nature of what he won't share openly but it is obvious Dave is wrestlihng with the classic dilemma what's wrong for the goose is wrong for the gander. He is basically saying. "I have a serious health issue. It is easy to fix. I trust God just so you know. But I am scared and want to live so I'm going ahead with it. I trust God not men and live by faith and I know you all are onboard with my decision to get help and won't criticize me for lacking faith for healing even though I have often thought that of some of you. Besides, my wife is a nurse which, interestingly enough, is just what I will need."
ReplyDeleteJames 5:14 has caused so much uncalled for misery in all it's simplistic and ignorant glory.
if a simple procedure will fix it, then he's obviously making a mountain out of a molehill, probably to draw sympathy and increase donations....
ReplyDeleteThe problem isn't James 5.14 but rather that the rest of the bible is ignored.
ReplyDeleteSo Dave is sick, huh?
ReplyDelete....hmmm.....
So that nutrition business he cheated his siblings out of isn't going to save him now?
Dave's "played doctor" over the years with various church members, myself included, in my case falsely accused relatives of poisoning me because they didn't follow his "natural" cures....in my case he was totally wrong, my family was right! I'm alive today in spite of Dave, not because of him
He's not having to take now what he's dished out in the past...
Dave, your own words are coming back to you..
James 5:14 uses a Greek word, translated as "sick", which means sick to the point of death. This word was used of Dorcas in Acts. It was used of Epaphroditus in Phillipians. And of Lazarus. In the ACOG culture we cheapened this sacrement of anointing the sick. They were hardly ever sick in the James 5:14 sense. Secondly, we have normally had one elder do it when James said call the elderS. Plural. I suspect the reason was so that healings wouldn't be attributed to a man.
ReplyDeleteI also notice that Jesus' healings were all instant with one exception. I have had that instant healing from what I just called the cheapened application of James 5:14, but neither the elder involved nor myself knew better.
What if he could be somehow get annointed by Gaylyn Bonjour??
ReplyDelete...that could be Double Powerful!!
For Heart conditions, Armstrongism is very clear: Grapejuice Diet - No Doctors!
ReplyDeleteOne minister allowed the substitution of Grape Soda for Grapejuice (see TIME magazine "Garner Ted Where Are You?")
Anon 755 wrote If ... he's obviously making a mountain out of a molehill, probably to draw sympathy and increase donations....
ReplyDeleteI remember in the Clarion Call sermon Dave read part of HWA's infamous dying Loma letter. He said he envied HWA's powerful writing style, which was to invoke fear and guilt in the reader for not sending him enough money.
If there is any possible way for Dave to get another cent out his followers, he'll find it!
Actions speak louder than words. His actions show he does not have faith.
ReplyDeleteWhen Dave does die, whenever that is, where will his followers go?
ReplyDeleteAfter they get over the shock, that is.
The question asked was: "Is Dave Pack starting to realize how mortal he is and that his prophecies and teachings are slipping out of his hands unanswered?"
ReplyDeleteAnd the answer is: "Perhaps yes and yes; time will tell!"
Dave, via another spirit (James 4:5) has been preaching another Jesus (& some Mickey Mouse Millennium of that Jesus soon reigning on earth rather than being at His Father's right hand) and another gospel ($$$$$) of self: himself! But this world will not revolve around Dave like he thinks and like he has been preaching to others.
Dave Pack, like so many others, believes he can impress (con?) God and will GET salvation by his own works and doing things his own way.
Oh, but his god is some dummy that seems to be too ignorant to know if Dave (or leaders of the xcogs...Kubik, Franks, Flurry, Winnail, Weston...choose a name!) has done enough to qualify???? Hence, the test! Huh?
Dave wrote: "I’m having my faith tested." My faith? That's a huge problem. Dave proved his faithlessness when he left his ministerial credentials behind in Pasadena's WCG (yes, along with the likes of the leaders of the xcogs...Kubik, Franks, Flurry, Winnail, Weston...etc. My faith does not cut it and never will. Isn't Dave aware that God weighs the spirits? If so, then why some test?
We used to be told the Sabbath was a test too. No, it isn't and it never was.
If Dave had God's faith, then Dave would not be talking about testing. There is a confidence with God's faith (Galatians 5:22), which comes from God Himself by His Spirit as a gift of fruit and it comes by the measure/proportion (Romans 12:3, 6) that God dishes out. If God does that with His faith, and He does, then why would He be so dumb to test it? It sounds like Dave is striving to con God. Dave may con others for their $$$$$ (And it is God or mammon; it can't be both), but God will not be conned.
Dave said: "...first, let’s go back to Hebrews 11 one more time."
Why? Hebrews 11 illustrates what God accomplished in the lives of individuals that He had given out His gift of faith to so that God's will was accomplished. None of the listed individuals did anything on his/her own...anymore than Jesus Christ did and He knew that of Himself He could do nothing!
Will Dave Pack do more than any of them with his so-called "my faith?" Absolutely not.
Dave says: "I don’t fear." Stop lying to us b/c you do fear! Here are some of Paul's words:
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
:15 And deliver them who through FEAR OF DEATH were all their lifetime SUBJECT TO BONDAGE.
Not only is Dave in bondage, he strives to put others into his bondage...bondage to SELF!
Dave, I have some good news for you from a real Prophet: Jeremiah.
"Heal me, O LORD, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved: for thou art my praise." Jeremiah 17:14
I have faith The God, that LORD, the One that the Word was with from some "beginning," will heal Dave (although Dave cannot avoid death...too many sins in his life...like the rest of us mortals), but a question remains: WHEN?
Dave thinks he is in good company with Paul and Mr. Armstrong. SELF again! What about the rest of us? Yes, they will live again and be healed (Jer 17:14), but Dave??????
Time will tell...
John
God doesn't heal swindlers. His ministers must be debating who will get his compound if he dies from the operation. I'll be the old Zorba the Greek movie where the townspeople were stealing a old woman's future as she lay dying on her bed.
ReplyDeleteBefore they bury Dave and his body is still warm, his minions will be dividing his defrauded loot.
I can't help but speculate despite what Dennis said. Now the heart is often the curse of the big (tall) man because despite being athletic and strong looking the heart is created equal. It does seem that the small man has all the advantages when it comes to the heart. There is not much difference in the size of the heart regardless of body size and the large man may find his heart gives out earlier than the small man. Yes it has to pump a lot harder for all those years to circulate blood up and down a 6ft 7" body (I know the Packman is tall), than for a man of say only 5' 6".
ReplyDeleteAthletes are known for dropping dead from over stressing their hearts. Often they are extremely tall and may have inherited heart defects more common in very tall people, then they push themselves to perform more and more. Add to this some sort of power shakes guaranteed to add muscle and strength, and wham, sudden death on the sports field.
In Dave Packs case he should realise he had better follow the doctors advice, they do seem to know how to fix hearts and extend life by 10 years or so. Lets hope he keeps his bp controlled and pays attention to cholesterol which can block the hearts blood supply very quickly. This stuff cannot be cured with diet, it is mostly genetic.
Many men die when they go to a brothel. The sudden exertion causes their hearts to give out. Same happens a lot on squash courts.
ReplyDeleteThe mystery illness. So much drama. Is more of what this insecure wanna be is always about; look at me, listen to me; worry about meeeee meeee meeee. Real men deal with it. Dave wants the spotlight no matter what. He is always making shit up. Faker.
ReplyDeleteAwesome comment, 8:14! His false prophecies fail, giving him zero traction. So, now, its "Look at me!!! I'm sick like Mr. Armstrong! Listen to me! Love me! Send me your common!"
DeleteBB
Huh!!? "I trust god, not men, but". Maybe a good anointing Dave, or some prayer. I mean, why would god let his only true apostle suffer with health issues. Go to the doctors Dave. It's really your best hope and you know it. If it was anyone else, that'd be different. But since its you and you are more important than everyone else, you better let the doctors save your hypocritical ass.
ReplyDelete