Email:
"Is this the Mr Diehl that used to be my minister in _______?"
"Yes"
"Dennis! I was told you went crazy, were put in an institution and committed suicide."
"Hmmm.... No..... Fine here"
"I did find a counselor a few years back"
Dr. Chewie
PhD RIP
Religious Issues Professional
"But now just livin' the life along the Willamette in Oregon"
"Oh Good!"
Looking good Dennis. Glad to hear rumors of your demise are very premature. You are at a place where Herbert Armstrong found God's truth almost snuffed out among the dead Sardis era brethren of the Church of God, Seventh Day. It is also where he pitched an aluminum siding job to an SDA minister during the Great Depression that changed his life - impressed that the minister had money - came home to Loma announcing he found the new family business. This is what the Willamette Valley means to me - the birth place of the Philadelphia era of God's Church.
ReplyDeleteRichard
Interesting triplet:
ReplyDeleteGoing 'crazy', being institutionalized, and committing suicide.
Oh, what a silly person proffered such nonsense!
If only that person believed in the Bible, it would be obvious that anyone associated with the number three must be HOLY 3 ways from Sunday!-
* Three Wise Men came to Jesus bearing three gifts; gold, frankincense and myrrh.
* Jesus spread Christianity for three years – according to the Gospel of John.
* Jesus predicted that Peter would deny knowing him three times before the cock crowed. (Luke 22:34)
* Jesus rose from the dead on the third day.
Oops, that's four ways and there's even more, but don't worry. The Bible proves that God can't count well.
Same old shit that the wcg taught 'if you left gauuds church'. Especially that old coot Billingsley.
ReplyDeleteDennis, you saw the toxic behavior of "religious leaders". I know you have many issues with scripture, which isn't hard since there are thousands of opinions and interpretations coming from culture differences and language translations.
ReplyDeleteThe history of mankind's connection to his Creator is one of consistent failure. The Biblical record is mostly of humans poor behavior. Could your current atheistic world view have come from projecting these human failings on to the Creator?
I'm not saying relating to a "hidden", unseen God is easy. And the tremendous suffering of mankind can only be explained by how short life is compared to a potential eternity to compensate.
Any Christian who doesn't have hundreds of unanswered questions isn't thinking very much. They often are hooked on the biggest mind control "drug" out there called 'Group Think".
Just wondered what your thoughts are on this.
Anonymous 936, Dennis has long seemed to me like an interesting combination of intelligence and integrity. I think he would make a great best friend. And I also think that he has had his trust betrayed numerous times and isn't willing to extend it further. And this has created a lot of hurt. This hurt is a filter through which circumstances are assessed. But I also think that God never let him down; it was men who claimed to be of God.
DeleteI used to love that show on TV Land.... "Lets Make A Dhiel" !! ;-)
ReplyDeleteWell John. Only John's gospel traces 3 years. Matt, Mark,Luke only one year. 😱😝
ReplyDeleteI thought you lived in SC, but you have returned to your spiritual roots in a sense....lol.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, to those of you who think that COG7 is dead, I offer my witness that it is a happening organization. Lots of life there....in a healthy way.
Yes, very much alive and proclaiming the good news of Christ. And Herb Armstrong and his cult is "dead".
DeleteAnonymous 146, is COG7 still the fastest growing church in Mexico? I remember asking John Kennedy how many congregations they have in his city of Monterey, and he told me there's about 120 COG7 congregations in that one city and about 80 missions.
Delete9.25 AM
ReplyDeleteWhat's ironic is that it's the ministers who had spiritually left 'gauuds church' with their lording abuse of church members. Gods true church has always been a spiritual organism (those who follow Christ) rather than those who attend church services. The ministers (including Herb) knew this, so they lied about not leaving Herbs church.
This is the same as the Catholic church position that salvation is only possible through their church.
Hmm, so salvation is made possible by church attendance rather than Christ's sacrifice.
Life's good up to a certain point. I, too, am enjoying things for the moment, but never want to get to the point where I am coloring with my crayons in the rest home, or getting lost on the way to the convenience store as I walk through the neighborhood shod in two different styles of athletic shoe.
ReplyDeleteWho knew, working up towards the delusion of 1975 that any of us would be using our Smartphones in the new millennium, driving around in fuel injected cars that gave us a read out on gas mileage and tire pressure, or contemplating solar panels for the roof of our homes?
Probably the best thing available to us today is the artificially enhanced intelligence we all can enjoy, courtesy of the internet! Instant fact-checking is the perfect vaccination against toxic religious cults!
BB
Byker, there's a lot of stunted Intelligence on the internet also. LOL
DeleteI remember Benjamin Rea confidently pronounced that if you left the college and the work, you would be cursed. Well, I don't feel very cursed and certainly outlived him by a few decades.
ReplyDeleteAllen C. Dexter
Benjamin Rea was an idiot.
Delete"Benjamin Rea was an idiot."
ReplyDeleteLet's not go there. We've all had our idiocies witnessed by the fact that we got caught up in the scam, but that has nothing to do with basic intelligence. We were victims of cultural brainwashing that moves in as soon as we're born, causing us to fall for a master con artist. A few see through it early. It takes others, like me, a long time to wise up. He was at heart a good man, and he certainly was not an idiot. I knew the man, and I still respect him as a person.
Allen C. Dexter
Gordon, I moved from SC to Oregon about three years ago. I got trapped there in my last Church move and never wanted to go there in the first place. The culture , religious intensity and the weather were simply not to my liking or my experience. My boys are there with beautiful families and six grand kids total. I plan another trip back to SC in October to see them. I am living in the same neighborhood (for now, I have to move soonish as the home here is being sold) as HWA haunted in the day. It's a weird kind of closure I suppose. I've called a couple former church minister friends from the past who are in the area, but they won't return the call.
ReplyDeleteI love the Pacific North West and will do all I can to make it my final home.
Yes Dennis, I've noticed that many.....most actually....of former church associates turn out to have only been co-workers. I have my faith intact (I think), but not the old "friendships" save maybe a half dozen, but those ones have turned out to be very loyal and true friends.
DeleteMaybe those you called are afraid of contact with you, or maybe they just don't want a reminder of their past? Or maybe the love of many has gotten cold.
They were ministers I worked with and around . Only two or three, ok one I can think of , church member stayed in touch through it all and we were friends outside of it all. He died recenltly.
ReplyDeleteWell, if you ever get up to Victoria, I'd talk to you. I haven't been to Salem or Eugene in a couple of years.
ReplyDeleteThere are many complications in maintaining friendships built as a result of the WCG and ACOGs. Since shunning was taught, shunning is presumed to be a given. That knocks out the majority. But also, some friendships were very unlikely in the first place, with the only catalyst being belief in Armstrongism. Considering the sparseness of church membership in the gen pop, these friendships were often the result of geographic proximity. It was also not uncommon that we often tolerated some very annoying people simply because they were brethren. Unfortunately, we were also accustomed to certain ones being moles for the ministers, meaning that you had to be very careful about who you "let in". And then, many of us, when we walked away, wanted a clean break with zero reminders. The church had been "everything", overriding any friendships we would build inside, and this remained the same for the most part when we left.
ReplyDeleteI would have to believe that this becomes even more complicated in the case of ministers or former ministers. For one thing, most of these groups don't allow cross-fellowship for members or ministers amongst their groups, even though their basic beliefs are 99% the same. Imagine how any would feel about a minister who has left all of the orgs, and no longer holds any of the beliefs. Plus, imagine being close to someone whose entire relationship with you was once based on rank in a structure that you were both part of. Once that structure is no longer in place, at least amongst us guys, the alpha-male thing is going to come into play. Some people really suppressed themselves in order to function within Armstrongite culture! In other cases, who and what they were in WCG or ACOG is who and what they are today.
Under these, and many other conditions, it would be extremely unusual, amazing actually, if friendships or relationships from WCG were able to be continued or thrive today. I liken friendship with a current member to being codependent with someone who has an active addiction, or untreated mental illness. It's simply better to get away, and stay away. Otherwise, you can quickly have your strengths sapped, and lose your stability.
I often wondered if HWA's "shunning" doctrine was a psychological pre-reaction, anticipating what he knew the people who left his group would do, and doing it first to gain an advantage.
BB
And, there's more stuff! People in the ACOGs do not enjoy clergy-parishioner confidentiality. Even if they did, the gossip mill runs wild about those who were disfellowshipped. Stay away from so and so! He got a demon! Or he left because he wanted to "become" a homosexual. She gave herself completely over to alcohol. He was plotting against "God's" ministers. They thought they proved to themselves that "God's" tithing is no longer in effect, and are now "playing" the stock market with what they steal from God.
ReplyDeleteThere was no shortage of accusations that could be raised in order to induce fear of those disfellowshipped. Armstrongism never did play fairly or ethically. They always played to win in any way they could, be it clean or dirty. It is no wonder suspicion comes so naturally.
BB
Sometimes when I read comments I realize how well I insulated myself from other ministers
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDeleteThe issue isn't that members don't enjoy clergy-parishioner confidentiality. The issue is that the minister claim that there is confidentiality, then betray that confidentiality. This is deceitful fraud. I know from first hand experience that they pass on confidential material to their wives as well.
Any psychologist or psychiatrist who behaved in this manner would be brought before a tribunal, charged and perhaps lose his/her license to practise. Plus be sued in a law of court.
Herbs ministers 'get away with murder.'