Poor Dave. I can just see his beet-red face and veins popping as he yells at this senior minister for "vomiting on 5,000 members." Then to compound the problem, not one single minister there would back him up!
That tape and Dave running to tattle-tale.
But at the 1978 Feast, the situation boiled over. This same senior minister stood before 5,000 brethren and preached that there will be 100 different resurrections—that Christ was returning on Pentecost—that the apostle Paul was currently in heaven getting special training—and many other related utterly unbiblical ideas.This event taught the Rochester-Syracuse pastor one of the most integral lessons of his entire ministry: thousands could listen to plain heretical nonsense spewed from the pulpit and not seem to hear ANY of it. And those who perhaps did, tolerated what they heard.The time for tact was over.Mr. Pack’s brother was an associate pastor at the Brooklyn, Queens, New York congregation and was also assigned to the Saratoga Springs Feast site. He spoke to his brother about this outrageous sermon. He and his wife completely agreed with the above assessment. Here are his comments:“I approached my brother with what my wife and I had noticed in the sermon. It was appalling, and it became obvious that no one else in the arena seemed to agree.”It was clear that immediate action needed to be taken!Mr. Pack confronted the man in the choir room with the Syracuse local church elder at his side, and said, “That sermon was wrong! You just stood up and vomited on 5,000 people!”“None of the other ministers are coming forward,” the minister replied.“I don’t care what the other ministers do or don’t do! What you are teaching is false—and ludicrous!—and it cannot be left unaddressed.”The minister slammed his fist on the piano.“I’m the senior pastor here!” he yelled. “This conversation is over! We’re done talking!” The choir was waiting outside, and everyone heard the volume with which the man spoke.Undaunted, Mr. Pack shot back with equal volume, “I won’t be intimidated. It is you who are in trouble—serious trouble—and right now!”Yet, not one other pastor or additional elder—of the scores present in the audience—seemed to care or had the courage to say anything, assuming they were even listening. This tragic reality became a painful lesson for Mr. Pack, as most ministers’ lack of love for, or even understanding of, the truth would be a repeating disappointment for the next 15 years. That so many could tolerate so much from the pulpit without a word of objection left an impression on the 29-year-old pastor that would never be forgotten.Following government and the Church’s organizational structure, he immediately called his area coordinator, who was attending the Feast in South Africa. Mr. Pack explained the details of what had happened—and that not one other minister spoke up (from a group of men primarily under the area coordinator’s northeastern administration).His supervisor sought to smooth the situation. Though the minister was fired after the Feast, again, other than his brother and the elder with him, not one other minister was willing to say a single word of what was heard.Only the sermon tape would tell the tale as the final witness of what had happened.
I'm with Pack on this. There are many things I dislike about Pack but in his younger days he had alot of courage to stand his ground in the face of apostacy. To stand against apostacy is not for the faint hearted and its a uphill struggle to be believed. But he gives interesting examples of how he refused to be budged, how the deceivers behaved and the outcome.
ReplyDeleteThis tragic reality became a painful lesson for Mr. Pack, as most ministers’ lack of love for, or even understanding of, the truth would be a repeating disappointment for the next 15 years. That so many could tolerate so much from the pulpit without a word of objection left an impression on the 29-year-old pastor that would never be forgotten.
ReplyDeleteAfter almost 40 years, the reality for Mr. Pack is not as tragic and the lesson isn't even painful anymore. When the love of HWA's truth couldn't produce what Mr. Pack truly wanted, the new business model was started. That business model is one that includes elevating himself with numerous biblical titles, extracting from his membership by coercion and fear their whole financial wealth, acquiring land and erecting buildings, and self interpreting prophecy while injecting the importance of himself into it. Wherever HWA's teaching got in the way of his narrative they were cast aside. He now teaches multiple resurrections himself among the many other wild teachings that are in continuum.
This man has no authenticity anymore. He initially put himself above all others by claiming he was the only one that held to all of what HWA taught. His departure from Global and starting his own church was based upon Roderick Meredith wavering on the belief that HWA was Elijah and RCM's desire to bring something new to the brethren. Mr. Pack's stand up moment in front of the council of Elders when this desire was brought up was to implore to all the men that the brethren don't need anything new - they just need to hold fast to what they have. Fast forward to the present, and Dave Pack has had three prophecy date/time predictions fail along with a ongoing 5 year teaching of all things new.
As the many members and ministers left claiming he wasn't holding fast himself, Mr. Pack declared them void of understanding and stated that they had lost God' Spirit.
Unfortunately many of his members have been along for a wild commute on their way to the promised land. Firstly following the teachings of HWA and then taking the path of the TKach's which led to a dead end and then back to the teachings of HWA, and now they are being taken down Dave Pack road, and the future will surely tell what is at the end of that road!
How come Pack does not complain about the drivel that either Gerald Waterhouse or Herman Hoeh came out with repeatedly? Why does he conveniently overlook some of the nonsense that HWA touted, such as 19 year prophetic time cycles, or 1972 etc?
ReplyDeleteNo, Pack is very picky "about who and what" he wants to point out as "errors from the past".
The straw man is HWA... Pack cant tell that one down, for he plays the game that the cultsters play... which is that I AM THE HEIR APPARENT TO HWA. I AM THE MANTLE WEARER!
Once the HWA idolatry is broken, then the "credentials" of legacy is broken too. We wake up and realize , hey, Im just as stupid or smart as you are, and you then can self declare yourself as a free agent and not beholden to any clown who shows up claiming the "primacy of Peter".
I believe in the Bible and the Sabbath etc. However, the concept that unless you can figure out who the "ordained by God leader on Earth is, otherwise you are doomed" is the key to the cult concept and modus operandi. It is a process that is evil, damnable and not of God.
With it comes the ingathering of money, power and control. It ALWAYS ends badly. This is the ultimate goal of the culsters.
I Peter 2:9 informs us that we are NOW ... Kings and Priests!
Jesus is the High Priest, and the Veil was rent/torn to demonstrate that we are in need OF NO MAN to be between us and God.
All , and I mean All of the idiots claiming to the "Mantle of HWA" are impostors and are mercilessly making merchandise of the brethren and are guilty of filthy lucre. Wake up and be free! No, not free to be immoral or the like, but to be free of being a slave and owned by anyone!
I READ THE COMMENTS ABOVE AND HAVE TO ASK, "Is Dave Pack mentally unstable?
ReplyDeleteThe answer is yes.
Pack in his younger days destroyed families. Is that a man of God? Fuck no!
https://hwarmstrong.com/reign-of-terror.htm
I believe that Dave Pack would have been a confrontational individual, always looking for any possible opportunity to bully others or to start a fight, no matter where his career path took him. It’s the one constant in his life. He’s now racked up years or decades of doing precisely what he had accused that senior pastor of doing all those years ago.
ReplyDeleteThis is a man with no redeeming social value, a pox on everyone with whom he interacts, and in reality, a parasite who feeds on people who have nothing left to give. He is the bottomfeeder of the Armstrong movement, and should have taken up his millstone back in the 1970s.
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1.09 PM
ReplyDeleteIf you believe Dave's account of his standing his ground against apostasy, I have a bridge to sell you. It's going very cheap. In his younger days, he had the whole church behind him, so where was the need to be courageous? Scoundrels do not have courage.
Anon 3:17 I am 1:09 and have been in the church long enough to know how cowardly many church men are. I know how people want others to speak out, to take a stand but never willing to do anything themselves.
ReplyDeletewhen did Dave Pack have the WHOLE church behind him. I doubt that.
I AM THE MANTLE WEARER!
ReplyDeleteDave wears the mantle of HWA... Bob Thiel wears the mantle of Elisha...
I think these mantles are wearing a bit thin and will soon be worn out.
Does anyone know of an ACOG minister with the first name “Mickey”? I was just thinking, if there were, and if he claimed to have the mantle, we could call it the Mickey Mantle.
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I vomit everytime I see an article about Dave Pack on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is that for many years the man fought so hard to preserve the "truth" only later to change "all truth" and "vomit" on his own membership. What goes around, comes around, and boy ohh boy Pack always mentioned one bad apple ruins the bunch and i guess he got ruined too.
ReplyDeleteThis is what Dave gets for presumptuously speaking on God behalf and with God's "Authority" which by the way fruits bear he has none and his credibility died after his several prophetic failures.
Take note, he preaches every year something may happen either on the fall or spring holy day.
One member told me:
"We are just doing what God tell us to do, he will have to answer to God for himself". As long as we are obeying and tithing and doing our part, he will need to face God about what he says."
So sad, now that Dave has backtracked being Elijah and admitted to the church he might not be him but that someone may come in the future and be him, members have resorted to just being christians and doing what they know best and just going along with Daves sermons in hopes God will soon take over and sort it out.
They all tell me, God must sort this out. What a sad state to be in as a member, they have given over their heads to be fiddled with, thrown up their hands trying to keep up, fear to disobey because they are on the edge of being unsure, several have a gut feeling in rcg he pack is a fraud but hes just so convincing with his words, Dave pack is a sorcerer with his words, he knows how to shift fault away from himself in a powerful and unassuming way. He pulls at the heartstrings of members so many are trapped because they have given it all and have been told there is a far greater reward, and some people are so convinced that they will receive this reward that they allow Packs nonsense to continue and support it. This is the greatest gamble of their lives and many are ALL IN.
5.12 AM
ReplyDeletePerhaps you are naive or ignorant, so I will spell it out for you. If a member speaks out or takes a stand, the minister (including Dave) verbally slaps him down or verbally tears him down while cowardly hiding behind Gods skirts. Not rebuking a fool is not cowardly as you claim. Dave never had this threat. Rather he had the other ministers and church culture on his side. Dave had nothing to fear. Courage wasn't required.
Dave has fallen away and is taking others with him, yet you talk well of the man. Are you going to talk about the 'good qualities' of Satan as well?
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ReplyDeleteMickey Weasell???
nck
Nck, pulleeze! Now, I have to go to the Packroom to take a Dave!
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6.51 AM
ReplyDeleteI read all his literature many years ago, and there were red flags even before he discarded his sheeps clothing. One is that he kept referencing everything to "but what did HWA teach on this matter?" What happened to "living by every word of God?" The other big no no was in his government booklet where he kept repeating that members must blindly accept the doctrines taught by him (which he mislabeled church government). I forget his exact words, but they strongly implied lording it over members faith as a minister right.
His common doctrine is one consequence of this blind compliance.
Dictionaries define ownership as control. Dave lording it over members beliefs amounts to Dave owning his members lives, with God being kicked to the curbside.
ReplyDeleteIn his Authorized Biography about the past, Dave is always the good guy doing all the good things and opposing all the bad guys.
In real life today, Dave is the bad guy doing all the bad things and snuffing out his own followers in his RCG.
This is a most unfortunate change. Or, maybe the Authorized Biography did not tell the whole story of the past.
"This event taught the Rochester-Syracuse pastor one of the most integral lessons of his entire ministry: thousands could listen to plain heretical nonsense spewed from the pulpit and not seem to hear ANY of it. And those who perhaps did, tolerated what they heard"
ReplyDeleteHe applies this lesson judiciously in current messages.