Living Church of God has an entry on its website about the soon coming persecution of LCG members. It is a call to action for LCG members to stand up for their faith and to defend it against those that persecute the church. Doug Winnail's comments are in sharp contrast to Gerry Weston's recent jabs against LCG members for living duplicitous lives and for not reading church literature so they could actually understand what the church believes.
Defending Your Beliefs: The Bible reveals that God’s people will be persecuted for their beliefs (John 15:20) and that deceivers will try to undermine and discredit those beliefs (Matthew 24:4-5, 24). However, the Apostle Peter wrote “always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear” (1 Peter 3:15). Peter did this on numerous occasions (Acts 3-5) and so did Stephen (Acts 7-8) and the Apostle Paul (Acts 22-26). So how can we prepare to defend our beliefs? Peter urged believers to “add to your faith virtue, [and] to virtue knowledge” (2 Peter 1:5). Paul urged Christians to “test [examine, prove] all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). He also encouraged believers to diligently study the Holy Scriptures so they can properly explain and apply them (2 Timothy 2:15). Studying one doctrine at a time is a good way to start. To avoid being misled, Christians must be able to recognize whether a teaching agrees with the Holy Scriptures or not (Isaiah 8:20), which is what the people of Berea actually did (Acts 17:11). We are living in an age that is becoming increasingly hostile to biblical beliefs, so we need to prepare to defend what we believe.Have a profitable Sabbath,Douglas S. Winnail
To avoid being misled, Christians must be able to recognize whether a teaching agrees with the Holy Scriptures or not (Isaiah 8:20), which is what the people of Berea actually did (Acts 17:11).
ReplyDeleteNice try, Doug! Let's not forget how you have insulted and abused LCG members who have compared your new "falling away" teaching to both what the Bible and HWA taught, and have found your "doctrinal upgrade" to be ridiculous at best, heresy at worst. Your actions speak louder than your words, Doug!
No. They’re going to be persecuted because they make themselves into weirdos. Civilized countries have had decades now of education in multiculturalism, so persecutuon for religious beliefs is rare. Society has evolved towards being accommodating and inclusive. If LCG members end up being persecuted, it’s going to be because they provoke it.
ReplyDelete"He also encouraged believers to diligently study the Holy Scriptures so they can properly explain and apply them...Studying one doctrine at a time is a good way to start. To avoid being misled, Christians must be able to recognize whether a teaching agrees with the Holy Scriptures or not..."
ReplyDeleteThat's pretty dangerous advice--people might find that the official teachings actually DISagree with the scriptures. And then they might start thinking for themselves, and that could lead to all kinds of trouble! :)
8.43 PM
ReplyDelete"..so persecution for religious beliefs is rare."
That was my expectation when I joined HWAs church, so I told my work colleagues. It was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life. There certainly was persecution. Since then, I exercise my right to privacy by keeping my mouth shut. Long term, it doesn't change things since you can't hide what you are. But it gives a breathing space.
Doug said,
ReplyDelete""He also encouraged believers to diligently study the Holy Scriptures so they can properly explain and apply them...Studying one doctrine at a time is a good way to start. To avoid being misled, Christians must be able to recognize whether a teaching agrees with the Holy Scriptures or not..."
There is not a Christian church on the planet who does not believe with all their heart that's exactly what they do.
SIDE NOTE: For those here who may have known my sister Diane Rosenthal, wife of Jim Rosenthal who pastored in WCG for decades and passed himself a few years back... Diane died instantly in a tragic auto accident yesterday coming home from work as a Nurse at the Saratoga Hospital in New York. She was airlifted to Albany medical center from the scene but did not survive. Thank you for those here who have already reached out already. Live, laugh and love seems to be the best rule. All this true church, true people and true way to be stuff will fall by the wayside in the glare of these three truths.
Sorry to hear about your sister's tragic death, Dennis.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have "friends" like LCG... who needs enemies?? ;-)
ReplyDeleteCondolences to your sister, Dennis.
ReplyDeleteYes, live, laugh and love. Three overwhelming ways of positive living.
Deep condolences, Dennis. Horrible news. I did not know the Rosenthals to speak to, but remember seeing them at one of the AC balls in the student center. They appeared to be a happy couple.
ReplyDeleteYou and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.
BB
Dennis
ReplyDeleteMy condolences. I recall reading about a women who was killed while having a driving lesson. Her car was hit by a drunk driver driving on the wrong side of the street. She was only 17 years old. I hope you find some comfort in your grief by considering that worse things have happened.
I like looking through an article that will
ReplyDeletemake men and women think. Also, thank you for allowing
for me to comment!
Sorry about your sister Dennis. I sort of remember Jim speaking either in NJ or NY back in the 70's. He was maybe the one who made a comment about how some don't want to do certain things and he comes out with "I didn't even want to give a sermon today". Sounded unusual for someone to say something like that back then. An open guy.
ReplyDeleteWhat terrible news.
ReplyDeleteI will not draw on any philosophy to offer words of encouragement. I find some consolement in the thought, that she is surrounded by brave fellow members of her tribe, at Fort Orange/Beverwijck. At the precise junction where Henry Hudson had hopes for reaching Asia, but was cut short by harsh realities. My hope is that many kind words will grant comfort to the family members who lost most. And mostly by the memory and legacy of all that was gained by her life.
Nck
Thank you Allen, BB and Anons. My sister never got over the death of Jim, who according to her sons, was worn down and disheartened deeply by all the drama and change in WCG brought about by the Tkaches. The HWA/GTA scandals took their toll on all the sincere ministry who got stuck often between devils and deep blue seas. "My dad died of a broken heart" was one son's comment to me. (He died of Non-Hodgkins lymphoma a year after diagnosis) Both my sister and brother in law were extremely health conscious so there is some irony in their deaths to me.
ReplyDeleteMy dear sister revealed her grief to me once by saying she realized her own shortcomings now and that that she told God "Jim can come back now." Grief and shock can do that to you. In many ways she expressed to me and my other sister that she wanted to "be with Jim" and did so even just a week ago.
And so it is...
I agree, God's people will be persecuted for their beliefs. However, those LCG members that believe the teachings of HWA, are not "God's people", they're HWA's people. Also, LCG isn't being persecuted. It's being exposed from the top-down and the inside-out. When you really allow yourself to look at their doctrines one at a time, one will find that those doctrines don't agree with the Holy Scriptures, thus exposing LCG's doctrines (Armstrongs doctrines) to be false doctrines. The fruit produced by their ministers reveals them to be authoritarian false teachers. The culture within their organization is revealed to be an toxic environment where people really don't learn and grow in. They're just groomed to shut-up, sit-down, pay, pray and obey.
ReplyDeleteI agree, God's people will be persecuted for their beliefs. However, those LCG members that believe the teachings of HWA, are not "God's people", they're HWA's people. Also, LCG isn't being persecuted. It's being exposed from the top-down and the inside-out. When you really allow yourself to look at their doctrines one at a time, one will find that those doctrines don't agree with the Holy Scriptures, thus exposing LCG's doctrines (Armstrongs doctrines) to be false doctrines. The fruit produced by their ministers reveals them to be authoritarian false teachers. The culture within their organization is revealed to be an toxic environment where people really don't learn and grow in. They're just groomed to shut-up, sit-down, pay, pray and obey.
ReplyDeleteThank you "Dumbhead". Jim was a very kind person and well appreciated by most. Both he, like myself, did not come into ministry through the lens or culture of a WCG upbringing. Jim was a forest ranger in NY and Idaho before coming into the church. Diane met him through the common connection that his family and ours had a severely handicapped son/brother in common and met when we all were kids, taking our respective brothers out from the Newark State Hospital for a picnic every week etc. Eventually our two families vacationed together in the Adirondaks and then Jim and Diane met again after he went to Idaho asking his mom on a visit home if she knew anyone to date. She said, "Diane Diehl.." The rest is history.
ReplyDeleteHe spoke at Saratoga Springs when it was snowing and they met mostly outside one year. He is famous for "Many are cold but few are frozen" at least that year.
in Daniel 11:21-45 it is clear that the man of sin will at first flatter and corrupt they what believe in the Holy Covenant, i.e., Christians, but later turn on them...
ReplyDeletei can see donald drumpf doing all those things...
c f ben yochanan
c f ben yochanan wrote: "...i can see donald drumpf doing all those things..." that the man of sin will do.
ReplyDeleteThe "man of sin" is mentioned in one specific place:
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." 2 Thess 2:3
If the "temple of God" were God's Church, then all we'd have to do is find out what church Donald sits in and we would clearly identify God's Church; wouldn't we? Or, is that part yet future also?
I suppose someone will say: no, it would only identify some "temple of God."
No matter what one thinks, Donald Trump is no "man of sin" of 2 Thess 2.
I'd consider the "man of sin" as the "Beast" (Rev 12:3; 13:1) before ever thinking that Donald Trump was "the man!"
Time will tell...
John
according to the publishers of the orthodox jewish bible the apostle Saul was referring to the man spoken of in Daniel 11:21-45 when he wrote of the man of sin...
ReplyDeleteif you read Daniel 11:21-45 it matches donald drumpfs behavior; even verse 20 describes barack obama...
in the last verse, verse 45, it speaks about the man of sin building of a palace in israel; it is a fact that donald drumpf is in the process, or may already have built a hotel in israel...
regarding him sitting in the temple, obviously this has yet to occur, but the 7 year agreement hasnt occurred either; but it may very well do so if drumpfs son in law, the 666 man, has anything to do with it...
c f ben yochanan
Dennis. I am very sorry for your loss I didn't know Diane or her husband but from what you wrote I understand them and what they went through. They sound like really nice, thinking, feeling people. How refreshing You must miss them and their honesty. Real honest communication is in short supply My deepest condolences to you and yours.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone else did the math, Googled and did extracurricular research, and discovered what Dennis didn't share. His sister was 77 and still working. She never retired. It means that Dennis's brother-in-law wasn't taken care of any better than Dennis himself.
ReplyDeleteWhether it was wielded by the "new" WCG, or by the preservationist splinters, the Armstrong "my way or the highway" conditional love managerial style was cruel, inhumane, and sometimes the results make you want to cry like a baby. it doesn't conform to God's character, as exemplified in the parable of the prodigal son. Shame on Armstrongism!