Like any good Church of God leader, Dave did not take care of Dale and left him on his own as various illnesses took their toll on him. While Dave built himself a new home and expanded his campus, Dale was left by the wayside without any assistance.
This is the latest on Dale Schurter:
Hello everyone,
Wish this was good news, but without God's intervention, does not look good.
Saw an update this morning, offering great hope for Dale's recovery. Meantime, just learned this afternoon that Dale fell at some point in the facility where he was being kept and broke his hip.
With a broken hip, the facility now says they cannot care for Dale and will not accept him back. Insurance says it will not cover the costs for a facility that does care for such patients according to Linda Schurter who has been helping Dale and Mona by handling their financial matters even before all these latest health issues.
At this point their son David also has serious health problems (just diagnosed as having Lymes disease) and is only mobile about 30 minutes or so a day, spending the rest of the time in bed.
Vernon and Marian say they cannot care for both Mona and Dale and are thinking to put Mona in a home for alsheimer's patients and have Dale stay with them if other arrangements cannot be worked out. I fear that will be the end for Mona, as her thinking seems to be very clear at times and not so much so at others, but clear enough to comprehend she is alone and apart from Dale I am sure, unless they keep her sedated with drugs as I hear is standard practice in some of these facilities.
This is as much as I know to give at this time in order to help our prayers be beaten fine for them both.
Truly unfortunate events transpiring in the life of two very caring people and an undeserved end life reality for a couple who were viciously humiliated by Dave Pack in front of all of the members of the RCG.
ReplyDeleteStrike number one as called by Dave Pack was when Mr. Schurter introduced carp into the waterfall fed lake which is the view from Mr. Pack's office window. Carp doing what carp do, clouded the lake a little. A fit of enormous rage ensued and the perpetrator was called out for defiling one of the jewels of the millennial campus.
Strike number two as called by Dave Pack was when Mr. Schurter tried to help along with the establishment of the multiple thousands of new trees by adding a foliar feeding of fertilizer to them. Some of the trees withered and Mr. Pack went ballistic against poor Mr. Schurter. Mr. Pack again detailed all of the alleged transgressions committed by Mr. Schurter to the whole church and then proclaimed that effective immediately, Dale Schurter was being kicked out of Wadsworth and sent to Western Ohio.
Strike number three as called by Dave Pack was when Mr. Schurter got tattled on by the lay members of his new church area because god forbid, he was doing a little talking about the moons. Mr. Pack now boiling over with anger, again excoriated Mr. Schurter in front of the whole membership of the church and proclaimed effect immediately, Mr. Schurter was being stripped of all of ministerial duties and a newly trained KID was being sent to humble and squash any "moon talk" that might be uttered Mr. Schurter.
Dale Schurter become a man of renown in the organic/natural agricultural community with his work of transforming the poorly farmed Big Sandy campus into a showcase for an alternative view into sustainable agriculture. He became an effective tool for HWA to reach very poor countries who couldn't feed their populations. Dale Schurter was able to introduce agricultural techniques that tremendously improved production and yield that helped feed many hungry and starving people.
The downfall of Dale Schurter was initiated by coming under a man who puts the importance of physical things in a self perceived kingdom above any any and all. Every brook, stream, creek, pond, lake and river gets clouded in my area after a heavy rain. Trees die all the time from pests, disease and storms. And the moon is something to talk about on occasion.
The title of this post is a little underdone. It should have read: ... Dave Pack Used Him and Then Abused Him and Then Abandoned Him! Yes, pure religion in its finest coming from the RCG leader who conveniently uses (Common), abuses ( you are wrong), and abandons (80% won't make it) his membership to enrich himself and his Ohio country club.
So a faithful member of the RCG must always remember; don't muddy the waters and make sure you stay away from the trees, and whatever you do, don't look at, think about or talk about the moon.
And this is why there will never be a unification of the ACOGs under Dave Pack. If there were, the type of megalomaniacal management technique which Dave applied to Dale Schurter would systematically destroy the newly unified church.
DeleteDave is not alone in this. Nearly every ACOG leader has a similar character flaw, one which would severely limit and destroy the hypothetically reunited church. Even if God had ever been involved in Armstrongism in the first place, these character flaws and leadership flaws mean that there will never be a reunited COG. The ministers were all trained by the same awful system. HWA maintained his power and relative unity 1) because he was the founder, 2) because he had an explosive temper, and 3) because he had formidable legal and financial counsel backing him up.
Once those control elements were out of the picture, splintering was inevitable.
BB
Unfortunately, in RCG there is no safety net for those who have served well.
ReplyDeleteWATT, coming from my perspective of the inner circle, I am afraid you nailed it. This makes me both sad and angry. All the while, Dave continues to spend other people's money.
ReplyDeleteWhy the sympathy for Schurter? Schurter thought he could use Pack to gain a platform for his quirky ideas that were rejected by other groups. Pack thought he could use Schurter as a trophy to wave in front of other groups.
ReplyDeleteEach man thought he could use the other, living off the tithes of the brethren to live as a favored center of attention. Predictably, one of the two had to come out on top, and one had to come out on the bottom. Of course, it's the brethren who were still on the REAL bottom.
My mother-in-law was a member of WCG for many years, drove over a hundred miles to church each week. In winter she drove over ice and snow to get to church. After many years she was ordained a deaconess. After the apostasy she joined one of the splinter ACOGs. In her late 70’s her health began to fail. Soon she was unable to attend church. A couple of people called at first, then calling and checking on her stopped. In her early years in the church she has shunned her family for the church. Her husband died before she did. For the last few years of her life the only ones who called and visited her were her unconverted children. One daughter who lived in the same town took care of her day and night. The unconverted, non church going, non sabbath keeping daughter. The one who observed birthdays and Christmas.
ReplyDeletePeople in these ACOG’s need to understand, once your money stops, once you can no provide a benefit, your usefulness ceases to exist. You have been used up, you are no longer needed, you become a burden to be discarded.
Jim-AZ
10:02 I don't think you will see much sympathy for Schurter here, considering the past articles we've had. The constant flip-flopping of beliefs in order to find a church that fit what he was thinking or was offering him more money, his less than stellar farming and agricultural habits. The point was that Dave Pack virtually used and then destroyed the man in order to impress his flock of devotees. By publicly humiliating Schurter and his wife, it sent a clear message to anyone in positions of authority in RCG that the same would happen to them. Plus the Church of God has a piss poor track record of taking care of its members, whether it be ministers or third tithe recipients.
ReplyDeleteSad. But it is the inevitable outcome of blind adherence to the folly of narcissists. I will always rejoice in the fact that I walked away and stayed gone in the mid-70s. Toyed with Dr. Martin for a little while but soon realized he was just as blindly opinionated as all the rest. It took decades to finally get my head screwed on straight and kick all religion to the curb for the farce it all is.
ReplyDeleteJim-AZ, there are probably many people who would wonder how a perpexing situation such as that which your mother-in-law experienced towards the end of her life could exist.
ReplyDeleteBasically, in the WCG, we were taught that there was one standard of behavior to be applied to brethren in the church, and another which applied to outsiders. In the case of the outsiders, we were not to get close to them, and certainly not to the extent that we would care about their feelings or physical and emotional needs. See a wreck on the way to church? Check to see if it involved some of the brethren (like maybe the car had one of those old orange F/T stickers on the bumper). If it did not involve brethren, don’t even stop, or (gasp!) you might be late for church. Closeness, being tuned into peoples’ feelings, was reserved for the brethren, and then, only to the extent
that they were keeping the law. Outsiders? “Let the dead bury the dead!” This, even being applied to unconverted family members.
Now, herein lies the problem. Unless one is cloistered at headquarters, one interacts daily with far more outsiders than insiders. So distancing becomes the dominant behavior pattern in church peoples’ lives. And, it’s not something that you can turn on and off for special people. We are either conscious of others’ emotional and physical needs, or we are not (not indicates narcissism). That sort of attitude affects our behavior towards ALL people, not just outsiders. Unfortunately, we often fed on our own! It’s part of the weirdness factor associated with cults.
So sad. Our past belief system killed off some of the naturally good aspects of our human nature, and it’s often difficult to get those back. Sounds as if your Christmas- keeping sister-in law did succeed in rekindling it. Picking out special presents that you know others will need or enjoy tends to teach participants some really good life lessons.
BB
10:02 am, you don't know what your talking about. Schurter was had from the beginning by rcg.
ReplyDeleteHow is this news? Where is the more appropriate and accurate headline, "Hundreds of Church Members' Health Declining After ACOG Leaders Used Them and Then Abandoned Them" ? The Schurters have some money and a network of friends to help them, so they are in much better shape than most of those who suffer at the end of their ACOG involvement without ever having been among the bigwigs or elites.
ReplyDelete2:20 PM, it seems that you don't know what you are talking about. Schurter began in the Radio Church God, which became WCG. He was a bigwig in Radio/Worldwide, and palled around with the upper elites at Big Sandy. He had access not just to a good salary, but to lots of money to do his agricultural "research" paid for by the tithes of brethren who could only afford the nastiest processed food after paying their tithes. He was happy teaching the Tkaches' new understanding until it was clear the money was going to run out, so he jumped to UCG and quickly veered off into calendar speculation and other stuff too wacky even for the tolerant and liberal UCG leadership, which sidelined him into semi-retirement, a demotion that probably had a lot to do with his severe health trials such as almost complete loss of adrenal function.
ReplyDeleteDave Pack promised to restore Schurter to his glory days as an agricultural bigwig. People close to Schurter shared with him the testimonies of people who had already been through Pack's revolving door, but Schurter was too vain to believe that the same would happen to him. Please remember that it was Pack, not Schurter, who wrote Schurter's fulsome letter of devotion to Pack and RCG. People in Schurter's pastorates (UCG and RCG) will affirm that Schurter never recanted his ideas about New Moons, but simply kept his mouth shut to Pack in order to get his spot on the gravy train after UCG pretty much discarded him.
Schurter thought that by deceiving Pack he could use him to get a better life. He probably assumed that RCG leadership was as political and varied in opinion as the WCG and UCG leadership he previously experienced. Turns out he was wrong. A more honorable man would have disclosed to Pack his true feelings about the New Moons, or would have refused Pack's offer because of their disagreement. Schurter, however, revealed himself to be just another career ladder-climber like so many other WCG ministers.
Al Dexter said: Sad. But it is the inevitable outcome of blind adherence to the folly of narcissists. I will always rejoice in the fact that I walked away and stayed gone in the mid-70s. Toyed with Dr. Martin for a little while but soon realized he was just as blindly opinionated as all the rest. It took decades to finally get my head screwed on straight and kick all religion to the curb for the farce it all is.
ReplyDeleteThis may be an approach a person can take when there is good health and everything a person does can be attributed to a normal personal life and accepted as normal human behavior. There will times when life is dealing with the unusual and there is little or no hope of any changes that any person can endure and the only solution is death. What does a person do under those conditions? Something to think about! ASB
Byker Bob
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I appreciate reading all your comments. Your insight into how we operated back in the day is spot on. I remember seeing those green f/t stickers and waving as we passed. Later I got one of the orange stickers....wow what a big deal. Again I enjoy reading about your experiences.
Jim-AZ
Here is the ACTUAL DALE S BEATDOWN CLIP FROM DOLLAR DAVE. Please help expose this fraud, Thx.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOzO249QSKw
So sad yet not at all surprising. I witnessed Dale being treated like crap first hand at Wadsworth HQ. Dale was a naturally warm, caring and friendly human being. Dave, not so much. Dave uses, abuses, and discards everyone...everyone. No exceptions. The difference is that some leave while some continue to accept the abuse. Dave is no different from anyone else with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It's how they operate, and will never change, ever.
ReplyDeleteYep, Narcissicistic Sociopaths will ALWAYS kick you to the curb once you have been "used up" and having nothing more to offer.
ReplyDeleteWhy sympathy? There should be some sympathy because if this post is true, an older gentleman fell and broke his hip, and his children are making hard decisions about how to best care for him. Since many who post here still consider themselves as Christians, a person's suffering should elicit some sympathy even if they made poor choices in their lives. As far as how he was treated in RCG a few points to consider: The story of him putting fish in the pond was about him trying to do a secret good thing. The church had put a few fish in, but they soon began to die from various reasons, so after the death of the original fish it is said that Mr. Shurter put in more of his own accord. While, this great "mistake" was publicly described, this story was used as evidence to explain that he was having memory problems, and was leaving HQ to go live where his family could help take of his wife, and help him as well. In this particular case, the person involved still had family to help, which is a good thing. Whether or not he was trying to take advantage of RCG or RCG leaders taking advantage of him, doesn't really matter. Right now he and his family are facing what to do about the realities of getting older. Have compassion since we may all one day face breaking our hips and hoping someone can help us keep living.
ReplyDeleteDale was my minister before he left WW for UCG. After he left, I attended UCG with my ex and ex-inlaws. I stopped attending shortly after he and Mona were transferred. Their grandkids from Vern and Marion grew up with my girls. I have loved the Schurters since the early 90's. Even though Mona and Dale's theology was/is wrong, they're loving wonderful people. An example that not everyone in the COGs are shitheads.
ReplyDeleteAfter they were transferred, I lost contact with Dale and Mona but not Vern and Marion. V&M stayed in WW until 2008/09. We currently live about 20-30 minutes from them. When Mona became ill with dementia and RCG wouldn't support them, they moved across the street from V&M. I have a business (HomeBound Haircuts) that is useful for the elderly. I started doing Mona's hair a few times a year. She didn't always recognize me and she didn't remember my girls, but her sweet and humble spirit was/is still there.
They, nor I, ever talked religion. They never tried to reconvert me. We just always have a pleasant visit and I try to leave them feeling better about their appearance.
I found out the other day about Dale, through Marion. I am deeply saddened by what has happened to them both. I pray that some true Christians will show them the love of God to the point that they walk away from RCG for good. It's not over until it's over.
I'm heading to their home on Thursday to do Mona's hair and see what they might need from me. Please keep them all in your prayers.
It makes me sick reading this, I vaguely referenced in a post i wrote another incident with a member called Ms. Juniper. When I had joined the cult RCG, her health was nosediving. She would attend services then later only Holy Day's and it was common knowledge that she was not "all there". As we were taught, the brethren cared after and loved Ms. Juniper. She was eventually put in a nursing home, or Alzheimer's facility. I got a chance to visit once as the Ambassador Center ensemble performed for the facility as a way of showing love and outreach. Ms. Juniper was all smiles that day and giggles. After I was told members were instructed to no longer visit her. Later on Pack addressed the church and told us she would not be in the church anymore and that he lamented at her mental state. He mumbled about how it could be possible she still had God's spirit while having Alzheimer's. And said he was sure God would continue to take care of her. And that although she was not in the church she was still in the body and all this mumbo jumbo justification speech for getting rid of her.
ReplyDeleteTo me, it sounded like a total cop out and a way of abandoning her so the church would not be burdened with having to send out ministers and members to look after her thru the end of her life. I have no idea where Karen Juniper is today, but her smile is burned in my heart and i feel personally sad at the way she just got let go out of the church. I fumed and questioned why our third tithe we pay was not being used to continue looking out after her.
But i later learned 3rd tithe and tithes were/are not being used in the way the bible instructs and this is not an assumption or accusation i am trying to throw out there without any proof. Some people who have yet to contribute to exposing pack have a lot more evidence of corruption at the top. They should feel compelled by Justice to report this and have 501c3 stripped from RCG.
I stopped giving them my money, and never will. With a beautiful campus it is an utter shame that the temple (the people), suffers. Im so sad for the schurters, all ulterior motives from either party aside, the manner of love and passion they exuded for trying to do the right thing still is commendable. They were gentle with the flock and for me as a young guy, they were a lens into the past and i felt transported to the various moments of their past, and all i ever felt from Dale Schurter was someone trying to find home. I literally want to cry right now, because he said it, "I feel like i'm home", and he was rejected that feeling. All he wanted was to feel he had a home.
I have no doubt in my heart that leaving RCG was a wise choice for me to make. I really want to worship God, idk how, that experience left me more confused than ever and with all these stories coming out i dont trust anyone anymore. If God is real he needs to make things clear.
6:32
ReplyDeleteInteresting piece. I have about the same issue on my hands regarding an elderly family member.
In the 1980's one of our regional congregations had a man with Alzheimers (10 year member) coming to the Feastdays. I don't think anyone was assigned to assist him find a chair or something. One of my family members is currently cut off from one of the splinter cults, just now she needs the contact the most with all the mental problems. But hey, someone with mental problems cannot have gods spirit dwell. It's the middle ages. I guess this person would have been burned at the stake in the middle ages or in Maine chased down by the Puritans. Anyway, don't lose your brain and mind in the splinter cults.
nck
6:32
ReplyDeleteIt so saddens me the way the COG cults disillusion Christians. There is a desire to connect to the Transcendent; sometimes the choices we make lead us to the COGs. I think God recognizes this disillusionment for what it is and that it was more likely in the COGs. He will show love to those the COGs disillusioned.But, in the meantime, we need to recognize we got caught up into something very wrong and it was largely based on our own decisions that God allowed us to make. Maybe we can see some gain from it in ours or others' lives (even as a cautionary tale), maybe not. The Lord is not a health and wealth God. His Holy Spirit can act in ways we cannot understand.
MAybe truly praising God and showing gratefulness is the only way to put the COGs behind us. The COGs are suspicious of praise and expressions of the Holy Spirit. It is opposite to the COGs in many ways and probably one of the best ways to wash the COGs off of us. Not easy for many of us and not a style we are used to but it surely won't hurt.
ReplyDelete“Dale Schurter Health Declining After Dave Pack Used Him and Then Abandoned Him”
Klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies will make everyone's health decline. His endless vomiting will give everyone a sick feeling. Their finances will decline too. Sort of like off a cliff.
my name is denise i belonged to wwcG when mr shurter was there i love him and his wife mr shurter married my husband and i i hope they are doing well they dont deserve to be treated so terribly how can i get in contact with mr shurter or a member of their family i live on long island i hope their is something i can do to help i am already praying Jesus told us to come to Him He is the way the truth and the life no man comes to the Father except by Jesus unfortunately men like dave can abuse Gods children because they have a gentle spirit and they get abused
ReplyDeleteI started listening to the weekly radio broadcast of world tomorrow, and also the telecast on Sundays, with Herbert W. Armstrong, back in late 1979 when I was living in Long Island. By the mid 80's I was baptized and became a member of the church of God and attended the Nassau county congregation, a few short years after that Mr. Dale shurter was sent to minister us. I recall him and his wife Mona, young daughter Linda, son David and another son/s ? which which named faded now, but I remember the best of all of them, how kind and friendly they were. The sermons and bible studies Mr. Dale gave, and the potlucks and other activities he organized to keep us together in unity. I'm absolutely sure the Almighty God has a reward for them that feared HIM and taught in His name like Dale Shurter.
ReplyDeleteThen they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. Mal. 3:16
I started listening to the weekly radio broadcast of world tomorrow, and also the telecast on Sundays, with Herbert W. Armstrong, back in late 1979 when I was living in Long Island. By the mid 80's I was baptized and became a member of the church of God and attended the Nassau county congregation, a few short years after that Mr. Dale shurter was sent to minister us. I recall him and his wife Mona, young daughter Linda, son David and another son/s ? which which named faded now, but I remember the best of all of them, how kind and friendly they were. The sermons and bible studies Mr. Dale gave, and the potlucks and other activities he organized to keep us together in unity. I'm absolutely sure the Almighty God has a reward for them that feared HIM and taught in His name like Dale Shurter.
ReplyDeleteThen they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name. Mal. 3:16