Rabbi Thiel corrects the Jews who don't even know their own scriptures.
The Temple Institute had the following in its latest newsletter:“See now that it is I! I am the One”(Deuteronomy 32:39)Tishrei 9, 5782 …New Moon Over Israel Marking The New Year Of 5782! … The new year of 5782 is off to a great start …5782 is supposedly how many years ago Adam was created (the Jews call it 5782 anno mundi, for ‘years of the world’). That is wrong.No, Temple Institute, it is NOT the year 5782.The Jewish year claim confuses many people as the numbers do not add up with scripture.
....blah blah blah
(Read entire article if you wish to challenge your sanity)
The Rabbi Amos continues...
"While I do not agree with all that is asserted in the above, the author is correct that the dating issue with the Jews seemed to be deliberate. Consider also the following prophecy:4 … Their lies lead them astray, Lies which their fathers followed. (Amos 2:4)4 … And their lies have caused them to err, After which their fathers did walk. (Amos 2:4, JPS)4 … their lies caused them to fall into error and live the way their ancestors did. (Amos 2:4, CJB)Many peoples have chosen to rely on lies, sometimes called tradition (though not all traditions are based on lies), instead of acting on the truth.It Jews would accept the truth over tradition, they also would realize that Jesus is the Messiah. For details, check out the first three chapters of the free online book: Proof Jesus is the Messiah."
(Note: A simple "Why don't the Jews accept Jesus as Messiah" search will make why this is so plain)
The Rabbi continues...
"It is not just the Jews that misunderstand years. Related to a period that some, like the Messianic Protestant Jonathan Cahn, say that starting sunset September 6, 2021, we entered a Shemitah year and this supposedly has prophetic implications. "
(Note: Does Rabbi Thiel need a refresher on New Testament thoughts on getting twisted up in genealogies as if he could know? )
8This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. 10Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition,…Titus 3:9
Alas, Rabbi Thiel dives into the numbers, which of course, by his own admission at the end of his article, he admits...
"Yet, because that years of life are not exact (few people are born and die on the precisely same calendar date–hence there could possibly be 10 or so additional years)""As far as the years go, here is some of the biblical genealogy for the first portion from Genesis 5 (last verse from Genesis 7):3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh.9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan.12 Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel.15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared.18 Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch.21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah.25 Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. 2628 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah…7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. NKJV.Added up, this equals 1656 years (so, some might call this 1656 anno mundi, 1656 AM, 1656 ‘years of the world’). This would mean that the flood was about 4,345 years ago.Now, here is the next portion of genealogies from Genesis 11:10 This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood.12 Arphaxad lived thirty-five years, and begot Salah.14 Salah lived thirty years, and begot Eber.16 Eber lived thirty-four years, and begot Peleg.18 Peleg lived thirty years, and begot Reu.20 Reu lived thirty-two years, and begot Serug.22 Serug lived thirty years, and begot Nahor.24 Nahor lived twenty-nine years, and begot Terah.26 Now Terah lived seventy years, and begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran.32 So the days of Terah were two hundred and five years, and Terah died in Haran.Added up, this equals 427 years (2+35+30+34+30+32+30+29+205=427), so 2083 Anno Mundi. The age of Terah when Abraham was born has also been debated (see section later called The Age of Terah at the Time of Abram’s Birth), though is not part of the above calculation.Galatians 3:17 shows 430 years; while 1 Kings 6:1 shows 480 years from the exodus from Egypt to the fourth year of Solomon’s reign (this, by the way, would make the Exodus as occurring in 1446 B.C., which is 966 + 480;For more details see When was the Exodus?).
(Note: It never happened as advertised so when it never happened as advertised is moot)
Rabbi Thiel sums it all up...
"Therefore, if we add up 1,656 + 427 + 24 + 430 + 480 + 966, this suggests...
Waffle Alert!
Whoa! Wait a Minute! "Suggests"? I thought this was the definitive proof that the year 5782 is for sure WRONG!?
"...the creation of Adam or his departure from Eden was around 3983 BC. Yet, because that years of life are not exact (few people are born and die on the precisely same calendar date–hence there could possibly be 10 or so additional years), this could be off somewhat–but it does give a biblical indication of when the end is coming."
(Note: "Is the New Testament correct in asserting?...
8This saying is trustworthy. And I want you to emphasize these things, so that those who have believed God will take care to devote themselves to good deeds. These things are excellent and profitable for the people. 9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless. 10Reject a divisive man after a first and second admonition,…Titus 3:9
...asking for a friend
Good grief Bob, give us Break. Who cares? The churches of god have never been right about any property or prediction. We live each day the best we can. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.
ReplyDeleteBob needs to stick with peddling herbs and vitamins.
Jim-AZ
Of course he's going to vehemently disagree with Jewish historians and record keepers on one the primary "Armstrongism killers". Theil is not a standalone on this. HWA and Dr. Hoeh branded true and verifiable sources as being "fake news" from the inception of Armstrongism. They also denied the records of the early church historians indicating that the Catholic (or "Universal") Church of God was a natural succession which began with Paul's gentile churches, and instead concocted a theory that Simon Magus had started the Catholic Church. And, they disagreed with the history of their own centtury that the British royal family is actually German. We were never taught that Manasseh and Ephraim's mommy was Egyptian, either. Armstrongites today consider climate change not to be the fulfillment of the book of Revelation, but rather a diversion not to be worried about because it doesn't track with HWA's prophecy model.
ReplyDeleteJust as we witness a political party today which denies science, history, and vetted and accurate news reporting because they disprove and conflict with the party agenda, we who grew up in the church were exposed to this same methodology at the hands of HWA, who taught that any source that disagreed with him was not to be trusted. We were exposed to the "fake news" charade long before another charlatan had coined the expression. HWA, instead, frequently used the phrase "falsely so-called". In a way, I am glad to have endured exposure to HWA because that experience has really helped me to understand and deal with the events of the past 5 years. Just not in the way that HWA had envisioned.
Bob's problem is supporting his 6,000 year plan. The Anno Mundi date puts the end too far in the future, and Ussher's Creation Date (4004 BCE) means it has already past.
ReplyDeleteIf he could be a bit more precise, we could start using dates AT (Anno Thieli)!
You do know, don't you Bob, that "....few people are born and die on the precisely same calendar date–hence there could possibly be 10 or so additional years"......doesn't matter in counting of years by scripture (only if you believe scripture). Genesis 11 is….exactly 427 years.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of whether Rabbi Bob is right or not, he has got what he craves PUBLICITY.
ReplyDeleteIt is unlikely he has never met or sat down with a ‘real’ Rabbi and discussed theology, and it would make no difference to Bob.
It’s his way or the highway.
Don’t forget to get vaccinated folks.
Are you Bob?
The JW's placed Adam at 4026 BC and that set the stage for their famous 1975 debacle.
ReplyDeleteIt's no coincidence that Herbie & Co got burnt the same year.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/true-faith/bible-timeline/
I think Packman went with 3981 BC and hence all the craziness from Wadsworth these last
few years.
Bob Thiel has to be the biggest idiot the church has ever seen. Even Gerald Waterhouse, as batshit crazy as he was, was entertaining, Bob on the other hand is boring as hell.
ReplyDeleteBob Thiel has to be the biggest idiot the church has ever seen. Even Gerald Waterhouse, as batshit crazy as he was, was entertaining, Bob on the other hand is boring as hell.
ReplyDeleteBob is a manic nutjob who has the delusion that his hyperenergetic mania is intelligence.
"....few people are born and die on the precisely same calendar date–hence there could possibly be 10 or so additional years"
ReplyDeleteThose extra 10 years would push the 6000 year mark back, not forward.
So much for Wiggle Room(TM).
Dennis cited "But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels about the law, because these things are pointless and worthless."
ReplyDeleteI had just come away from another posting on this blog where The Law was once again in contention - the Armstrongist view in opposition to the Christian view. So this statement struck me as being idealistic on the part of the Apostle Paul. I don't mean to criticize him. I am a big and unabashed fan of the heroic Apostle Paul.
But I think he laid away The Circumcision Party, expected Jesus soon to return and felt that everything was settled. He did not foresee that 18 and half centuries later that a man named HWA would once again raise up The Circumcision Party but this time, instead of focusing on circumcision, The Party would focus on the Sabbath for the most part - so to speak, The Sabbath Party.
Paul's advice is still good. A word in season. And The Circumcision/Sabbath Party is so small now anyway there was no need for him to waste ink and parchment on it even if Paul could have foreseen its 20th Century emergence in distant Des Moines, Iowa. I don't think Paul was an naive optimist in making this cited statement. I just think he thought rationally that some things were too flawed to ever gain any traction again. Everybody has made that mistake.
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Well the Masoretic Text has been tampered with and is incorrect re the ages of the patriarchs. The Septuagint, which the early Christians used as their Bible, has different ages for the patriarchs and according to it we're already into the 6th millennium. So this 6000 year plan is false like the 7 church eras.
ReplyDeleteNeotherm noted: "But I think he laid away The Circumcision Party, expected Jesus soon to return and felt that everything was settled. He did not foresee that 18 and half centuries later that a man named HWA would once again raise up The Circumcision Party but this time, instead of focusing on circumcision, The Party would focus on the Sabbath for the most part - so to speak, The Sabbath Party."
ReplyDelete================================
I agree for sure. The "Jesus People" of the first century thought the routing of the Romans, the rebuilding of the Temple, the Second Coming etc were all imminent and in their lifetime. It is what their Apostles preached and the author of Revelation meant to encourage them in.
"All things common" was a short lived phenomenon and never meant as the way the church functioned. When time grew long and more wealthy Greeks and Jews showed up at church, "Hell no" took over and the practice died a quiet death for the long haul of history.
The recommendations about marrying or not marrying and it would be best to be like Paul was a short term view. It was never meant to be a "low" and "high" view of human relationships for the next two thousand years. It was an emergency measure as "time was short". HWA pulled that stunt or at least I heard it back in the early 70's when Jesus was coming in '75.
IMHO the whole NT is a record of the immanency of the Second Coming. Jesus died. He went away. He'll be right back. When all this fell apart as untrue, the Church was born and the insanity of division, denominations and destruction began.
Nothing in the NT was meant to be for anyone but those of the day who were the "we" and "you" of it all then. Hyperbole in Revelation can be misunderstood to think the world had to change bigly so these dramatic things could happen in the future. It was written for them. Not us. It failed.
Dennis, you wrote "It failed."
ReplyDeleteI would class your viewpoint as secular historical. I have a much different view of these events. Christ addresses the issue of his return in Matthew 24. This passage contains a track that deals with the 70AD events and another track that deals with the Parousia. It has been the inclination of most, from the First Century church to the Twenty First Century church, to conflate these two tracks.
When the disciples asked Christ about this in Matthew 24, they received his narrative into a framework that they had already established - that Christ was going to set up a political Kingdom immediately that would throw off the Roman tyranny and establish the Glory of Israel. So they asked him no further questions because they thought they understood it comprehensively. But they didn't.
Peter understood the issue at the inception of the church. He did not deny the 70AD Track but he did assert that the Parousia Track was conditional in Acts 3:19-21. But Paul, in some of his epistles, continued to believe in the imminency of the Parousia. The puzzling question is why were the views of Peter and Paul discrepant on the chronological context of the Parousia. All I have is speculation. In some cases I believe Paul was referring to the imminency of the 70AD events and not the Parousia. But I have not tried to categorize anything. And if the reader believes both Tracks are the same, Paul's statements will be misunderstood.
So the whole plan didn't "fail." Instead of the Kingdom being established on earth in the First Century, we have had about 2,000 years of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit and the spiritual formation of many, many more people than the Apostles ever envisioned.
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Every time I read articles here on Banned here on Theil I’m always reminded of The Shining, where Jack was busy typing away on his book…where he typed the same thing over and over:
ReplyDeleteAll work and no play makes Bob a dull boy
He is as insane as Jack was in the movie…