Why is it that all of the crazy self-appointed prophets in the Church of God believe they are soooooooo important that their creature they call "christ" cannot return without them? Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland, and Bob Thiel all think this. They have set themselves up as God's own mouthpiece on earth "preparing the way".
Liars! Every single one of them.
"Dear brethren,
Having APPROVED the announcements of the last two days, I am sending one more under MY signature.
The following things SHOULD be included in your thinking. While NECESSARILY brief, they make the picture FULL—and exciting to contemplate:
1. We are waiting for a Kingdom. The little flock gets a Kingdom. There is no period before that! (Acts 1:6, 3:21; Matt. 17:11)
2. For several years, I believed the 70th annualized week in Dan. 9:24-27 was a 7-year Kingdom that followed “the end.” This was true! There is NO 7-day Kingdom. We all know there IS a 7-year Kingdom. Dan. 8, 9:27 and 12:11-12 describe it.
3. Therefore, ALL references to the first Kingdom being either a month or up to a month are BACK IN PLAY.
4. Thus, all Israel rises along with all incomplete saints—and Nebuchadnezzar—to start EVERYTHING!
5. Many things get scripturally BETTER, CLEARER and EASIER to understand. God becomes INFINITELY MORE FAIR and just in this scenario. NO WONDER those who go first get eternal life. The first Kingdom is potentially 15 billion people.
6. Elijah CAME (first) before Christ arrives with this worldwide Kingdom of God. He (Pack) PREPARED THE WAY for this. Without a people (RCG) prepared to lead such a Kingdom, NOTHING could happen.
Everything in God’s thinking turns on having a little flock of “LASTS” ready. The ONLY “entity” before the 3 Kingdoms was the little flock in PREPARATION to lead the first one.
7. We are now waiting and watching day-by-day! We STILL cannot know the day or hour. PERHAPS it is this FINAL email that “puts us on the clock.” (Relevant scriptures would be Mal. 3:1, Rev. 22:6, Rev. 10:7, Amos 3:7 and Zech. 3:7.)
The Bible’s closing words are now appropriate: “Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus...”
In Christ’s service,
David C. Pack"
Imagine the pure hubris. Getting up every morning thinking the Bible is all about you! This is so much worse than the subject of Carly's song.
ReplyDeleteDave's message is from the twilight zone.
ReplyDeleteMr Pack:
ReplyDeleteTell us more about this Anglo-Israel-theory that you hold to.
I read through the points given in this post by this Splinterist preacher. I usually don't do that but this time I did. His points to me are wholly opaque. I don't have the time or interest to look into these innovations. I could dress up these ideas with the term Gnostic but I really think they are just simply idiosyncratic.
ReplyDeleteThe word idiosyncratic has its principal root in the Greek word ἴδιος or idios. It means according to Strong's: "pertaining to one's self, one's own, belonging to one's self." And it is found in 2 Peter as the word "private":
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
In context, the word prophecy here seems to refer to inspired speaking rather than prediction or forecasting. But it would certainly include predictive prophecy. Peter further qualifies what he is speaking about by stating in a later verse:
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
It is clear form this verse that Peter is talking about the inspired writing of the Old Testament not the overwrought proclamations of the local apocalyptic Millerite.
The points listed in the post seem to be based on various chronological computations. And terminology is used that I am unfamiliar with. While this may all mean something to people who are running along the inside track, I wonder if this passage from Acts also spoken by Peter has meaning also:
"Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration (apokatastasis) that God announced long ago through his holy prophets. (Acts 3:19-21, NRSV)"
This has lots of street cred. It was spoken by the head of the church, Peter, and references the "holy prophets" and is a part of the New Testament canon and states that Christ will not be returning according to a set of chronological computations (a Houteffian calculus - look up Millerite Victor Houteff) but when an appropriate state of repentance happens among the Jews (this seems to be whom he is addressing - v. 17). Any contemporary theory of the Parousia will have to go up against and trump these credentials. Fat chance.
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Mr. Pack, I've never even heard of you until I found this blog 6 months ago. 🧐
ReplyDeletePack writes : "Many things get scripturally BETTER, CLEARER and EASIER to understand."
ReplyDeleteMY RESPONSE TO PACKS WHACKY MUSINGS
:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
You forgot 2.6 "HA"s
Delete""Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
ReplyDeleteIn context, the word prophecy here seems to refer to inspired speaking rather than prediction or forecasting. But it would certainly include predictive prophecy. Peter further qualifies what he is speaking about by stating in a later verse:
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
All prophecy, whether predictive or inspired speaking is of private interpretation is it not? What else can it be?
Prophecies of old came from holy men of God: which, no matter how they spin the origins of their views, are just kidding themselves in the search to be taken more seriously than the completion it would seem. Every actually private interpretation claims multiple reasons why there's are not in that forbidden category. Somewhat like being accused of just using human reasoning. There is no other kind far as we can tell.
Dennis? (8:56)
ReplyDeletePeter seems to believe that there is a generally accepted interpretation of a given prophecy in contrast to various other idiosyncratic interpretations. This suggests a number of elements in a process that we could speculate on:
1. Peter had a broad outline of future events and knew what fit into this event train and what did not.
2. Peter accepted only those prophecies that were a part of the canon with vetted meanings. In other words, post-canonical startup prophets had no credibility. In this case the predictive element in the concept of prophecy drops away.
3. Designer prophecy was not entertained because they were all characterized by "idios."
4. There is an ekklesia that has the perogative to review designer prophecy and decide on its credibility. This would be a council of the church broadly. This effectively eliminates the introduction of idosyncrasy. The apocalyptic Millerites operate outside of any such ekklesia.
5. The Holy Spirit is conducting a pre-Parousia ministry which subsumes prophetic activity.
The idea that all prophecies are of private interpretation essentially asserts that there is no administration by ekklesia, no canon and no ministry of the Holy Spirit. If you are accustomed to the free-lance, self-authorized prophecy of Millerism, this probably would not occur to you.
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Addendum to 12:57
ReplyDeleteJesus stated the following about false prophets:
"“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits."
This comes from the Sermon on the Mount, no less. It is essentially a charter to the ekklesia to do quality assurance on any and every prophecy that comes along. There were to be no firebrand prophets. If someone in the ekklesia had a prophecy, they were to bring the prophecy (and themselves) to the church council. And the principal criterion Jesus gives is to look at the outcomes in the life of the person asserting the prophecy. This comports with Jesus' statement that a good tree bears good fruit.
So, it is not about researching times, durations, cycles, current events, geopolitical extrapolations, vocabulary and other complex concepts. It was about reviewing the putative prophet's life. Makes sense. Reviewing the arcane and enigmatic is not within grasp but immediately reviewing someone's life is within the reach of the ekklesia.
This quality assurance on prophecy thankfully is non-specific in regard to reviewing council. It may be a church council of many, or it may be a council of one. Everyone in the ekklesia has a mandate to conduct this process. This grassroots up approach drives the autocratic to distraction, of course. Much more about this but for most people it is a non-issue.
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NEO
DeleteBalaam's prophesies were inspired by God, but he was an evil person. So it's not as simple as you make out.
Well, they have to. WCG claimed HWA was preparing the way. Here we are, over 30 years later, and HWAs name is completely unknown to most of the public. Clearly HWA prepared nothing except his income-driven imitators. Its as close as most of them will come to admitting it.
ReplyDeleteshow me the money honey,
ReplyDelete5:12, money is how we get the gospel message out to the world.
Delete11.58 AM
DeleteBut over 70% of church funds are spent on church administration.
11.58 AM
DeleteBut over 70% of church funds are spent on church administration.
5:12, money is how we get the gospel message out to the world.
ReplyDelete"By this everyone will know you are My disciples, if you do an award-winning Irish dance." -- John 13:35.
"And now these three remain, faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of all is Irish dance." -- 1 Corinthians 13:13.
Anon 5:12
ReplyDelete“Money is how we get the gospel message out to the world”.
You have to be kidding. Dave pack doesn’t reach the world. Dave doesn’t even reach Wadsworth. Dave is full of bullshit. There are a few brain dead members who cling to what Dave babbles on about. I pity the poor people who give their money to Dave. Dave needs to be in a mental institution.
Jim-AZ
Well, Jim, one could argue that RCG IS a mental institution!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1:03
ReplyDeleteBalaam was evil and was used of God but God revealed his background so we could see it. We must trust that if God ever uses another evil person to bear one of his messages, he will make what he is doing clear. My guess is that in the Christian era, he has never done that. I doubt if he will ever do that. I like Ron Kelly's response to stuff like this: What if you had not brought that up? Life would have gone on as expected and nobody would have been concerned about this possible exception.
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ReplyDeleteHOW SATAN USED DAVE PACK
The Restored Cash Grab (RCG) cult is where some unlucky former Worldwide Church of God people got deceived into going to get totally betrayed by klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies and his Bait & Switch scam. Dave initially attracted his victims by promising them all of Herbert W. Armstrong's old teachings from 1986, but later changed his mind and gave them Dave's own doctrinal vomit instead.
Dave is the competitive type. Over the years Dave promoted himself from Minister to Apostle to Joshua the High Priest to Elijah the Prophet (after posthumously promoting HWA out of the way to the Office of Moses) to That Prophet (to compete with another false prophet, Gerald Flurry) and is working on becoming Messiah (if he can somehow get rid of Jesus). Then all that Dave will have to do is ascend up to heaven and knock God off His throne.
RCG cult members ended up losing virtually everything they owned to Dave's “common” theft doctrine that he claimed to have “restored.” Dave told them that if they really loved God like they ought to they would obediently send everything they have to Dave, “or no salvation if you don't!”
Now, RCG cult members are getting strung along with more and more wrong prophetic date guesses and having their brains turned into mush by Dave's seemingly endless sermon series of The Greatest Nonsense Ever Told.
Satan's false prophets are so sneaky and dishonest and mean!
uses another evil person to bear one of his messages
ReplyDeleteHWA put a story related that in his Autobiography, but I can't remember what his point was. The story was that an old woman was praying for bread, a group of boys overheard her and tossed a loaf through her window, and she gave thanks. The boys laughed at her and said they gave her the bread, not God. The woman replied that God gave her the bread but had the Devil deliver it.
Anon 9:00 - Dave's favorite Opera is the Grabit and Switcheroo musical, "The Pirates of Pasadena", noted for the song, "I am the very model of a modern Pastor General".
ReplyDeleteDear Dave,
ReplyDeleteIf you are preparing the way for Christ's return, I don't want anything to do with your Christ. Maybe I should look into Scientology or Islam instead.
The most dangerous and frankly shocking result of Pack repeatedly claiming Jesus Christ is to return to earth in a 'pre second coming' is that seed of thought is starting to catch on elsewhere. Its becoming a wind of doctrine doing the rounds.
ReplyDeleteRevelation 1:7 gets completely ignored with this seed of thought that Jesus Christ first sneaks back to earth to a select few.
It totally ignores the power and the glory of Jesus Christ. It ignored basic prophect that is still to be fulfilled.
It is also dangerous to a Christian. Instead of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling and growing in grave and knowledge of Jesus Christ and living by every word of God, they are neglecting the faith once delivered and perceiving themselves as safe in the chosen place.