Dave Pack Befuddled By COG Members Who Ignored Him In Akron

Poor Dave.  He just does not get it.  How can any real COG member ever ignore his preaching?  Church of God News is reporting how befuddle Pack is over the fact hat hardly anyone followed him out of Akron when he got fired, yet followed the next minister into United and then ultimately taking more into COGWA.  How can people ignore the most significant man on earth?

David Pack, of the Restored Church of God, stated, in his sermon on Dec. 31st:
“I remember when I was fired (by the Worldwide Church of God in 1993), right here in Akron, and there were 38 people came with us. That’s the number.

Two years later, another guy was fired, who had bought into and taught the trinity. I had his sermon ... The TRINITY -  and 200 people followed him. He went on to be the President of United. Now he’s a top minister in COGwa.

Two hundred people followed him. Didn’t any of them remember, right there in the room, I told them where it was going, and they follow a guy that taught them the trinity? And these were ‘escapees’, you see? ...
I listened. I mean, the whole thing - eyeballs and elbows - taught it all; swallowed hook, line and sinker - and they followed him (to a newly formed church - the United Church of God), because they said, “Well, it’s just the nature of God. We’re not really changing anything.”

Dave Pack, Trees, Jesus = Kingdom Of God In Wadsworth?

Forget the Two Tree's.  It is all about Dave's trees now.

We should have all known there was great significance in Dave Packs recent fascination with trees.  Being the strong vocal man the he is, he has been boasting how he has been ripping and running trees on his cult compounding Wadsworth, Ohio.

Here is what he has to say about Jesus coming to his Kingdom on earth.  It will NOT be in Zion or Jerusalem.

Another proof: This is a fascinating thing, go to the end of the Bible, I’m going to read you a stunning, stunning verse. All of you around the world—BELIEVE your Bibles… I could load you with information I’ve learned, but I have to move fast…Let’s read Revelation 22. Now, in verse 12, Christ said…

“Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be…[You now know that is to set up the Kingdom. Let’s read a little bit more about it.]…I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” (Rev. 22:12-13).

We all know that the Church, in many ways, Christ has always said, is a city set on a hill that cannot be hid. I’ve always viewed the campus this way. Mr. Armstrong thought of it that way with every campus.

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city” (vs. 14). Now what does that mean?

It cannot be New Jerusalem and it cannot be Zion. Why? Why is it some other, smaller city? Well first of all, the context is He just came, so He isn’t coming to Zion and He’s not coming for 1,000 years to Jerusalem. Here is the reason—the next verse…There is a little, tiny city where, outside it, are dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and liars. It is impossible…It’s impossible, people of God, that that is New Jerusalem and the 1,000 years. This is the first period I want to eliminate. There will be no dogs, no false prophets…That is what it means…No liars, no sorcerers…The devil’s bound. There will be no whoremongers, no murderers—that’s impossible.

…We all know—there are no unconverted people on Earth at the start of the Millennium. It cannot be talking about New Jerusalem. It’s a little, tiny city with gates—meaning there are walls—and that is because some can come in and most cannot. But right outside…and everywhere else…still have false ministers, idol worshippers, murderers, whoremongers, liars galore…but not inside this little city.

Now, why couldn’t it be Jerusalem, after we have gone to Zion? Same reason. Go read II Peter 3. I think about verse 10, when He says the new heavens and new earth comes—He says wherein dwells righteousness (II Peter. 3:13). Christ has set up His Kingdom in Zion. It isn’t going to be right outside Zion there are all those terrible things. We read, at the end of Zechariah, there are no false prophets, there are no idols, the devil is gone; there can’t be sorcerers. Christ is going to deal with the whoremongers and everybody else. It cannot be Zion. It cannot be New Jerusalem. It is this little city—right here. It has to be. There are no other possibilities.

There are only three options; two of them are impossibilities. What’s important—and this is proof—there is space. Apparently, Joshua is told—you keep My courts. He has some kind of authority and power. Trespassers, drunks, vandals, criminals, unbelievers…others…cannot come in to this place. Now, if they come into the Church, then maybe they can. But there are gates…this is a gate that won’t let dogs in—false ministers are not coming on to this campus.

Now why is that a Kingdom? You have to have tremendous sovereign authority…Or anybody could enter through those gates. Only those that do the commandments do. Why? Apparently—and you ought to make note of this—the tree of life is here. Is there any doubt this is the Kingdom of God? That’s what it says. I know it’s in Zion; I know it’s in New Jerusalem, but the description of verse 15does not fit…

“I Jesus have sent my angel to testify unto you these things in the churches” (22:16). “Angel” there means “messenger.” At the end of the age, a messenger—there is no angel telling anybody any of this. I’m sure we all know that. The word is “messenger.”

“I have sent my messenger to testify unto you these things in the churches…[I am doing that, and I am going to do it outside the walls of Restored, so to speak. There are no walls today, but you know what I mean—beyond the shores of Restored. I know who I am and what I’m supposed to do. I understand the restitution of all things comes in two phases and an announcement of it, so that God’s people know they are looking for a grain of sand and not a tremendous, earth-shaking event that lasts 1,000 years. So I am doing my part. Who said this?]…the root and the offspring the David, the bright and morning star” (vs. 16). That is happening now.

Now a little point. I will quickly describe it…Zechariah 5, verses 1 to 4. This sounds much more like a time the Kingdom of God is in place…where this curse goes out all over the world. It’s a unique curse. It’s just described, in chapter 3, Joshua, and then chapter 4, Zerubbabel and the Two Witnesses. Immediately, God says…after these men are introduced on to the scene and others, of course, with them…that a unique curse goes out over all the earth, Zechariah 5:1 to 4, where if you steal, or you swear falsely in the name of God, who has set up His Kingdom, you will be sealed into your house and you will be dissolved along with the wood and stone that built the house.

Why would you need to do that, in many ways, if there is compliance all over the world? Here’s why? In a world filled with scam artists, thieves, liars, people who speak in the name of God because there are dogs, meaning false ministers…In the New Testament, we all understand that’s what “dogs” means. We’re not talking about German Shepherds or Chihuahuas. It’s talking about false ministers. They will be out there. God’s Kingdom is on Earth—they are going to see tremendous opportunity, because scam artists will scam anybody about anything at any time, if they can get a nickel out of it.

God says, in effect, you will not use My government or My name or My Kingdom and pretend to represent it. I will have angels seal you into your house, and I will dissolve you like battery acid fell over you—and your house will be gone, too. Go look at Zechariah 5:1 to 4, and it actually tells you that something different has happened when the men and all the thousands who are with them in chapters 3 and 4 are established, and grace comes out of Zerubbabel’s mouth to the world. Because Mr. Armstrong’s function, I truly do believe—from Day One in the Kingdom—will be about the Kingdom.

Elijah will work with the Church…He will work with the Kingdom, initially. Elijah’s job is to work with Israel and Judah. Zerubbabel’s job appears to be to manage matters of the Kingdom—from Day One—when the Kingdom starts. That’s why I am certain of it. I’ve explained this. Is he the Chief Administrator? Elijah’s function is different. The men of wonder have a different function. I think that is one of the biggest proofs something dramatically different has happened.

Next one: Zechariah 11, verse 10…Turn over there. Now this…This is an interesting thing. This is proof that the Kingdom came……

“And [so] it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD” (vs. 11).

Here is what the word of the LORD is: They know that the Kingdom of God has come to Earth, and God has changed everything with all peoples on the face of the earth. Grace is snapped, and now it is God fulfilling Jeremiah 31, and He is writing His Law in people’s hearts anywhere anyone in the world. Anywhere that anyone in the world wants to respond to the Kingdom of God and receive all the blessings and benefits and bounty, as I like to put it, of that Kingdom, they can now do it—and until Christ comes—that is not possible. So it’s a whole new world, starting, of course, with setting up the government to do that……

For now, note that Christ is coming to address trees, with a couple of kinds, here, being described as “reduced” and a couple others “increased” in the same way. You can probably guess the connection, by now, to trees; but there are many verses…I could tell you, right now, nine different places, Old Testament and New, where Christ is very interested in trees, which are leaders. There is a big connection here, but I’ll just leave it for that, until we can get into a list of nine to a dozen verses where Christ is going to work with leaders—ministers—who He describes as trees.

Superfantabulous Dave, new stand in awe.

Philadelphia Church of God "Minister" Mark Saranga Kicks Daughter Out Of House

From Exit and Support:

Mark Saranga Kicks Daughter Out of House:

January 25, 2017 

Mark Saranga took over as head of the PCG Mail Processing Dept. when Mark Nash was unceremoniously fired from that position. His daughter Alicia was seeing a "worldly" boy at the public school she attended, so Mark Saranga kicked her out of the house never to return (which is in keeping with Gerald Flurry's disfellowshipping policy). Alicia was a minor and around 16 years old at the time. She had no place to go as the other PCG members were too afraid of Gerald Flurry putting them out, too, for sheltering someone thrown out of the PCG. People are in fear of the ministry. 

Alicia had to go to the local office of Health and Human Services and tell them she was basically homeless without any means of support. The State put her into foster care and she has been there ever since. Her father Mark Saranga is still an "upstanding minister" in the PCG. He writes for the Philadelphia Trumpet and Royal Vision magazine and his work is predominantly featured on the PCG website. Ironically, one of his current articles on there is about the Sandy Hook tragedy and how to protect your children. This coming from a man who kicked out his minor aged daughter to the curb for seeing a boy in school. 

Not only are Gerald Flurry's insane policies destroying the PCG financially, but they are also causing a local strain on the taxpayers as the kicked out minor aged children of the PCG members are relying on the State to survive. --[name withheld]

This is not the fruit incident of PCG ministers forcing their kids out into the streets. It has been regular occurrence in PCG over the decades, though usually it is the ministry forcing members to kick their kids out.

"PCG Should Be Investigated" Over Mark Saranga and Other Abusive Polices

From Exit and Support:

PCG Should Be Investigated:

January 28, 2017

The letter concerning Mark Saranga and his daughter Alicia breaks my heart. What a cruel and ruthless thing to do. I am reminded of what Jesus preached about the prodigal son and how he treated the lady at the well, and many of the other wonderful things He did for sinners. Flurry claims to preach the gospel to the world. What gospel? One of destroying the family? There is certainly no love, grace and truth in what he and his ministers preach. By not preaching the true gospel the PCG is twice cursed according to the Apostle Paul.

Now that Obama and Clinton have been taken care of and the USA has a Christian and Jewish supporting President, we who are suffering under the PCG rules should contact our new president and request him to have this so called "church" investigated for breaking any law on child care and have the IRS do a financial audit on them. I cannot remember when last we saw audited accounts from the PCG or any of their branches around the world.

I remember many years ago that the FBI were very interested in H Armstrong and the WCG. --W.

FBI Files on Herbert Armstrong: 

March 29, 2006 

I once met with and talked with Anthony Buzzard. I find that his connections (mentioned in the report you link to) are v6ery interesting. I marked some in red for quick perusal. I used to talk to Gene Bailey and I was the one that told him about the files on the WWCG with the FBI, etc. He later tried to obtain them, but they were blacked out and the information hidden. However, I obtained and viewed the files from the early 1970s that weren't blacked out. I had written the Un-American Activities Commission in 1972 and received information that HWA and WWCG were under surveillance and suspected of UnAmerican activities. I also received a letter from the Congressional Library.  

This all documents the connections between the evil powers of the underworld and the WWCG. --Former WCG member [name withheld] 

Comment: The report being referred to is The Conspiracy Was Strong - The Discernment Ministries. Herbert W. Armstrong and Anthony Buzzard and their connections are mentioned in Parts 1-3. (Just search for the words "Worldwide Church of God" in Pt. I.) The FBI files on Herbert Armstrong and Stanley Rader are mentioned. Anthony Buzzard was formerly a lecturer at Ambassador College in Bricket Wood, England. The Ambassador Report #48, May 1991, has a section entitled, "The FBI's Files on the WCG." Ambassador Report #51, October 1992, followed up by saying these files were later released to Gene Bailey but with much blacked out. It is alleged that many groups known as "cults" have a hidden agenda and work together to create a passive people. (Read this part in the Rules of Disinformation which talks about the CIA being involved in Waco and Jonestown.) They have similar methods of deception and abuse are often fronts for intelligence activity. Read more about this and WCG / HWA activities from OIU Newsletter #6, pt. 3. 

 

The article about the FBI interest is here:  The Conspiracy Was Strong 

Prophecy Comes Alive!: Man-Pigs Live! False Prophet and Illegitimate COG Leader Indignant That He Was Mocked About Man-Pigs

Various news sources have published stories about the combining of human cells with pig cells to grow human organs in other animals for human transplant.  The Almost Arrested False prophet and illegitimate self appointed COG leader sees it as a sure sign that the world is coming to an end.  He has preached several times about man pigs taking over the world while ignoring Jesus and what he taught and what he accomplished and abolished.  New Covenant be damned, man pigs rule!  Does he really think any of his African followers care about such silly topics?  His three or four American members might since they feel the world is quickly about to crash into oblivion. His African members care more about living life free from hunger, terrorism, tribal fighting and slavery to Muslims.  They find solace and comfort in the stories of the scriptures and could care less about the endless troves of silly topics Habakkuk Thiel preaches about each week.  Do they care about football and rampaging man pigs running around the earth? That does not bother the false prophet though.

He is now incensed that he is being mocked.  The sensitive man/boy is stomping his feet in Arroyo Grande tonight.  He is livid I tell you!  Livid!  I can hear the steam whistling out of his ears all the way  down here in Rancho Santa Fe!

I warned about this in prior years as well as earlier this month.  I even made a sermonette video about this nearly three weeks ago: Half human, half pig: What’s the difference?

After I did this, the anti-Church of God website, Banned by HWA, posted the following, including vulgarities, about me:

Do 21st Century Christians Need To Worry About Man-Pigs? COG Prophet Thinks So!

I never cease to be amazed at the weirdness that continues to leak out of the minds of foolish Church of God leaders. …

Now we have our very own Doubly Blessed buffoon preaching a sermon about “man-pigs.” Yes, that is right.  Almost arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos Joshua, Habakkuk Bob Thiel felt the need to preach a sermon about “man-pigs and humanzee’s.” …

Thiel adds the title “Dr.” to  the front of his name he looks like a complete blithering idiot.  No “Dr.” in his right mind nor real theologian would ever preach such utter bullshit in a sermon.  This kind of idiocy is what occupies the mind of those that cannot and will not acknowledge Jesus.  The idiots are embarrassed to preach any thing that has to do with Jesus.

Just because the liar and certified false prophet waves his big thick Bible at the beginning of his video does not make himself an authority on the book he waves.

Maybe his 1,997 members in Africa might find his sermon slightly interesting due to the fact so many are still steeped in tribal myths and legends, but no Christian today has this topic occupying their mind.

Apparently the false prophet does not like having his sermons referred to as bullshit.   Sensitive little ears and self-righteous minds can't handle the truth.

The self-appointed false prophet and teacher then writes:

Are Christian leaders supposed to keep quiet about the sins of the end-time descendants of Israel?

According to some anti-Church of God critics, apparently so.

But you are not a real Christian Bob.  You are one in name only, a so-called Christian, unlike the real Christians around the world you deem less than worthy due to your high, dreamy,  doubly-blessed, status with your god. Plus worshipping the law while ignoring that inconvenient dude you pretend to follow and preaching worthless sermons about silly topics does not make you a Christian.  Waving your big thick bible does not make you a follower of God.

The fact still remains, you really do need to keep quiet!

Even worse in Thiel's eyes is that he was accused of copying Living Church of God's article about man pigs that it had published before Thiel had his hysterics.

Chimeras are an abomination! I have personally been warning/crying out against chimeras for years.

Yet, notice one of the ill-informed mockers at the Banned by HWA site posted the following comment about me:

Bob is just a copycat:

Transgender Man-Pig Marriages?

LCG was already preaching about Bob’s topic many months ago. A true prophet would have been crying aloud and sparing not about this vital topic long before the lukewarm LCG preachers were warning us about it.

January 15, 2017 at 8:19 AM

Claiming I just did this months after LCG did, to copy LCG on that, is absurd. Not only do I not recall ever seeing the LCG item, I have warned against chimeras for years. Need proof? See February 7, 2014 post: Russia looking at total GMO food ban; the frightening chimera research, as well as my article Chimeras: Has Science Crossed the Line?I also specifically warned against pig-human chimeras in 2015 (see Pig-Human GMOs proposed).

False prophet Thiel's priorities are seriously distorted.  That is apparent in his highlight comment above.

The fact still remains, he really does need to keep quiet!

A Polite Exchange of Perspectives

BobThiel writes:

Dear Dennis Diehl   

Read your post about me this morning at the Banned by HWA website. Since I do not always go to that site nor read all that is there, I would have thought that you would have emailed me if you really wanted a discussion.

(Hello  Bob,  Thank you for writing.  I had looked in the past on your site for a "contact me/us" button and did not find one so would not have known how to get in touch. 

I also am in alternative health.  I have therapeutic massage practice on the Willamette just outside Portland.  Have worked for a decade with chiropractors, and others along the way such as yourself.  I live in the neighborhood where HWA lived , worked and got baptized as well as near where Richard and Ted were born. 

Also, I suppose my public offer was because you had also taken me into the public arena on your site and the "Apostate former minister...."  label didn't help.  Just as you, I am not fond of labels and without you knowing my background and such, found my own buttons punched a bit.  Apostate would be your definition because I don't believe as you do or did not chose to continue my ministry through all the chaos and upheaval of the 90's and beyond.  Almost 30 years of daily ministry in 5 states and 14 congregations was enough.  To me, the whole WCG experience was a youthful mistake for which I will pay and pay.  I was a very compassionate, easy going and non judgmental type of minister and not beholding to the Armstrongs emotionally through those years due to my growing up Presbyterian and able to think for myself even as a WCG minister.  I'm not apostate.  I am awake.

I know Rod Meredith, Michael Germano, Gerald Weston and Doug Winnail personally.  I went to school with Gerald Flurry (arrogant even then) and Dave Pack.

(Bob)

As I believe you realize, I do NOT demand (nor want) the type of idolatrous following that David Pack and Gerald Flurry do.

And for that you should be congratulated.  Both of those men are classic narcissists with ALL the symptoms and behaviors.  Dave is taking his delusions many steps further as he, in my view, is slidding into religious delusions that are not going to end well.  He may be classically mentally ill.  We'll see.  His church is doomed.

(Bob)

While the Continuing Church of God does accept tithes and offering, unlike those men I have not asked people to sacrifice their funds or get into debt so that CCOG could construct buildings or make some massive campus.

I agree, you have not done that at all.  Good on ya!

(Bob)

Yet, on more than one occasion, you lumped me together with them--presumably knowing that I have written articles exposing their errors and positions.

I have , as has the blog owner at Banned and most of those who go to that sight for whatever personal reasons they have.  Money, treating members badly, spending on this or that is not the issue others take you to task for or consider you like them for.

The issue Bob is the taking of titles , out of the blue , for oneself  and the reasonings one goes to to come to such conclusions.  Flurry is Apostle and Prophet and even That Prophet which is beyond stupid.  Dave takes every ridiculous title for every ridiculous reason one can imagine.  He just makes it up.  You have declared yourself a prophet based on dreams and a "double portion" prayer during an anointing and it for that they take you to task and consider you like Flurry, Pack and Malm along with lesser knowns who also do the same thing. 

I won't challenge you on your own impression of yourself but you have to know that to trust in a dream , dreams we all have as the mind processes the day and even our inner issues are not how we should govern our lives.  I dream every week of speaking at the feast but don't think it means I should.  They feel you simply could not get along with LCG, were not listened to, promoted or given credit for your ideas and with sour grapes walked off , made up reasons you could become a prophet and here you are, yet another sliver of the church.  That's what they consider you to be like them for.  With 700 slivers all over the world as the debris of WCG, it's an oft told tale

The site watchers and Gary also find your presentations less than professional. If you have some funds, why not put it into making them more credible.  I watched , all I could , your "sermon" using the answers from the letter answering dept of yore.  Why bother Bob?  It makes you look like you have nothing real to say.  Those answers are way out of date and to even bother with some you addressed sets you up for ridicule. No one cares about dogs and tithing and many other nit picking topics of the past.  Much of those answers are outdated and simply out of context and merely opinions on things no one cares about. 

No one cares about dangers of football and what would Jesus watch.  They are going to mock you for that.  (Football is dangerous but it's not a theological topic and makes you look shallow and petty)  No one in the NT fussed about gladiators or the arena down the street and probably did not because it would have been harmful to their survival for going against Rome which you'd not even know ran the show by reading the Gospels, Epistles or letters. 

Anyway, I spare you, but if you want more credibility, at least invest a bit your setting and look professional

(Bob)

You also probably realize that I do not take a salary from the Continuing Church of God. Instead, after paying for expenses related to proclaiming the gospel (mainly related to literature and videos), the bulk of our remaining funds go to Africa to reach people there as well as to support the poor, widows, and orphans.

Excellent.  We did all that growing up in our Calvinistic Presbyterian Church.  It was what churches of my youth did.  WCG only seemed to help out if it benefited them and of course Dave believes helping anyone but himself is just wrong.

(Bob)

Regarding the 6000 years, I presume you realize that I believe in a version of what is called the 'gap theory' (http://www.cogwriter.com/gap-theory-old-earth-long-days-creation.htm), hence I do not believe that I have ignored paleontology.

Yes, and I don't believe such things.  Good science done well shows the universe to be 14.5 billion years old, earth to be 4.5 billion years old.  The issues we could discuss are not so much evolution as that is not either of our areas of expertise, but rather creationism vs science and whether Genesis is literally true or myths with other reasons for being written, which I believe.  I see , as do many, no reason to take Genesis 1-11 as anything but myth and those taken from Sumerian creation tales with a Hebrew spin.  This is not difficult to show.  I have my doubts about the literal existence of Abraham, Moses, the Exodus right up to David and Solomon with those stories including the Pentateuch being written by the established priesthood in the Babylonian captivity etc.  Long story but accepted by many to be the case.  An acquaintance , Israel Finkelstein, author of The Bible Unearthed gave me some good insights into that when digging at Megiddo of which he was in charge when I was there for a summer.  He is one of Israel's premier archaeologists.

You have ignored actual paleontology I think but we can save that for another day.

I imagine you'd defend creationist thinking exactly as Dave Pack did in his almost endless series where he made a fool out of himself and was called out for it on a video rebuttal by Aron Ra, who has the actual background to put such topics to rest.  If you have not seen what he did to Dave ,  you might learn from it if you have an open mind to updated scientific discover of the past 40 years.

You'd not want Aron focusing on you and your "simple four proof against evolution"

(Bob)

As far as  Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson goes, are you serious? In all due respect, he comes across as a zealot to push an anti-God agenda and certainly not as a scientist interested in the truth. I watched several of his television programs years ago and my recollection is that I found his 'proofs' sorely lacking.

Are you serious?  If that's how you view men such as him with their background and training, nothing will get through to you.  You should update from "years ago" and try again.  Your own "proofs" of many things , including your gross misunderstanding of the context and meaning of Isaiah's "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little there a little" shows you won't change in the midst of overwhelming evidence on even this small point.  It is NOT a scripture on how to study the Bible .  If you have not read the context of it , here is my take on it which reflects that of real theologians well trained. 

http://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/search?q=line+upon+line

Could you admit to being wrong about this?  If not, can you prove to me why you think it does mean "this is how to study scripture " in Isaiah's mind?

(Bob)

I am a published scientist myself, as you can verify if you go to PubMed, the US National Institutes of Health's medical database.

Then you should know better and while you might have a scientific background in one topic or another, you do not have a background in cosmology, paleontology or archaeology as do I not.

(Bob)

, you list in your profile the Banned by HWA website. That site regularly makes false and misleading statements about me, puts out headlines about me that are not true, and lumps me in with others in a manner that is often inappropriate. It needs to cease and desist doing that.

Why don't you write an article explaining what you find wrong and why and send it to me or Gary to print.  I am only a guest writer at Banned.  It is not my site and I don't control who ceases and desists what. 

(Bob)

I would suggest that you work with the people at that site so they stop trying to mislead people about me and the Continuing Church of God. If you can do so, then perhaps a more public debate about why evolution is scientifically-flawed could make sense.

Bob Thiel

I'd rather address the topic of biblical errancy, myth vs literalism and New Testament origins and politic.  Would love to chat about who Paul is and was and why you can't go with Peter, James and John AND Paul.  Each hated the other and did not believe the same things about Jesus.  Galatians makes that very very clear.  I will say that Paul declared himself in the same way Flurry, Pack and others have taken their titles and ordinations to themselves.  That is not a compliment.  The Jesus of Paul was a Cosmic, Hallucinatory Christ and Paul had no use for the teachings of the Jewish Christian church under James...  Long story, never mind

Thank you for your response . Hope this helps you to get to know me a bit.  Remember, I am not an apostate.  I am awake

Dennis

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response:

Dear Dennis:

About a 1/2 hour after I sent my email to you, I saw you posted against me again, etc.

*(I posted nothing so not sure what Bob was referring too and it went unexplained.)

I am sorry that you seem to believe that you are beyond "the faith once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

As far as many of the matters you brought up, I would refer you to www.cogwriter.com as there are articles on many of those topics.

But I will state that dreams consistent with scripture, that are later confirmed (and this includes dreams of others), combined with prayer being answered, is different than simply having random dreams.

As far as presentations go, Moses, Jeremiah, and Paul were not good that way. I try, but recognize that I have limits. God does not always work through the most entertaining presenters.

Bob Thiel

LCG and the Final Training: Just Who Will Make the Final Cut?

Rod Meredith has his latest co-worker/member letter up and shockingly it is devoid of any gay talk, but here is plenty of demon talk and final training talk.

Meredith ends his letter with the following:

Please, co-workers and brethren, try to totally commit yourself to the God of the Bible and to His coming Kingdom! It is very real! It is coming relatively soon—sooner than many people believe! Those of us in this Work are going “all out” to prepare the way for that coming Government. We are trying to train those people who could be literal kings and priests assisting Christ in ruling this world in His coming Kingdom. We are a “team” to help prepare the way for Christ’s return and to prepare a “people for God” who really will surrender their lives to do His will and His Work with all their hearts! May God make each one of you more willing to be an active part of that “team” and be rewarded foreverbecause you have been willing to totally commit to the genuine future and to the real Government which will soon rule this earth and the entire universe. With Christian love, Roderick C. Meredith

This is the same old song and dance he has been writing about for decades.  The problem in 2017 is just WHO exactly is the correct group teaching the correct people to be kings, priests and future gods?  If Meredith and his crew are the only ones doing this then what happens to Dave Pack's crew who claims the same thing?  What about Gerald Flurry?  He claims he and his little band of degenerate scumbags are also training the true spiritual leaders.   How can all of that be when United Church of God and Church of God a Worldwide Association also claim the very same thing.  Is God going to pick a few from each group to make everyone happy?  Where does this leave super self-righteous Bob Thiel and his merry band of African members?

The other thing to consider with all of these groups is that they all intend to be safely secured in the desert of Jordan as they receive their final training in Petra.  Who is the rightful heir to Petra?  Is it first come first to rule, or will they all sit around a campfire and diplomatically vote on who reigns supreme?  Will they hug each other and finally agree they are  brothers and stop their petty grandiose behaviors?  Will Bob Thiel hug Rod Meredith and apologize and say "Can't we all just be friends, Big Daddy?"

Don't count on it!  All of these self-serving and self-appointed narcissists will never be able to give up control.  They have spent too many decades lying about themselves to everyone that they no longer have any humility left.  All any of them can do anymore is think about themselves and what new title they can dream up.  Just how many apostles, prophets, Pastor Generals, Chief Overseers, and doubly-blessed end time witnesses do we need?

My Church Is The Best Church of God EVVVVVVVVVVER In Human History

We have all watched as Dave Pack has endlessly declared he has the most superfantabulous Church of God to ever exist in this dispensation of the Church of God movement.  He has the best web sites, the most beautiful campus, the best magazines, the most astounding sermons, and the most loyal group of ministers the church has ever had.

We now know that is all just hot air blowing out of Wadsworth.

God's most important and best Church of God ever in the 6,000 yeas of bible history is now centered in Arroyo Grande, California!  Kneel in awe!

What's that you say?  Arroyo Grande?  I bet you thought Church of God's picked "crown jewels" like Pasadena, or other beautiful locations like Cincinnati to headquarter their empires in.  But no,  Arroyo Grande has the most notable distinction of dramatically growing as a city in the 1970-1980's due to the expansion of its waste water treatment plant.  Awesome!  A city that grew because of human waste!  How prophetic of Almost-arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Amos, Joshua, Habakuk,  Doubly Blessed, Apostle, Prophet, End Time Witless Witness, Chief Overseer Bob Thiel to pick such a location.  It seems appropriate that he would pick a city with a large waste treatment plant to resurrect his dreamy church in when all he is peddling is the waste and dregs of Armstrongism.  Apostle Thiel is the Church of God's very own Elmer Gantry, out to save the world while his own life is a mess.

Habakkuk Thiel is bragging about how successful he is as a church leader and that he has reached more humans with his fledgling personality cult than any other Church of God has, especially when it compares to Rod Meredith and Dave Pack's outreach to the world.

Habakkuk Thiel claims he has preached a sermon about EVERY single topic Jesus has been recorded saying. Has Rod Meredith or Dave Pack ever done that?  Apparently not since Thiel has to point this out for us all.

As far as Matthew 28:19-20 goes, one way that the Continuing Church of God. has done that is by teaching everything that Jesus is recorded to have said in the New Testament. Below are links to sermons that demonstrate that:  (after each book below he listed his many sermons preached in front of his crooked bookcases or flowery sheer curtains)

MATTHEW Here are links to twelve sermons covering the 28 chapters of Matthew: 

MARK Here is a link to a sermon covering all of Jesus’ words in the ‘Gospel of Mark’: 

LUKE Here are links to eight sermons covering the entire ‘Gospel of Luke’:  

The last sermon also covers Jesus’ words in the Book of Acts.

JOHN Here are links to a seven-part sermon series covering the entire ‘Gospel of John’: 

REVELATION This is a link to a sermon covering words Jesus spoke as recorded in the Book of Revelation and in first and second Corinthians: Revelation: Jesus’ Final Words. 

All of that preaching about what Jesus said and yet the man still has no clue as to what the Jesus did or accomplished. Totally clueless.

Next the dreamy prophet wants you to know how awesome his group is by the number of languages that he has translated some of his bible thumping into:

As far as languages go, notice the list of languages that we have links to...

International Languages

Afrikaans Afrikaans
Albanian Shqip
Amharic አማርኛ
Arabic العَرَبِيَّة
Armenian հայերէն
AzerbaijaniAzərbaycan
Basque Euskara
Belarusian беларуская мова
Bengali বাংলা 
Bosnian Bosanski
Bulgarian български
Burmese မြန်မာစာ
Catalan Català
Cebuano Bisayâ
Chichewa Nyanja
Croatian Hrvatski
Corsican Corsu
Czech Český
Danish Dansk 
Dutch Nederlands
Esperanto Esperanto
Estonian Eesti keel
Finnish Suomalainen
French Français
Frisian Frisian
Galician Galego
Georgianქართული
German Deutsch
Greek Ελληνική
Gujarati ગુજરાતી
Haitian Creole Kreyòl Ayisyen
Hausa Hausa
Hawaiian Ōlelo Hawaiʻi
Hebrew עִברִית
Hindi हिंदी
Hmong Hmong
Hungarian Magyar
Icelandic Íslenska
Igbo Igbo
Indonesian Bahasa Indonesia
Irish Gaeilge
Italian Italiano
Japanese 日本語
Javanese Jawa
Kannada ಕನ್ನಡ
Kazakh Қазақ тілі
Khmer ភាសាខ្មែរ
Kiswahili Kiswahili
Korean 한국어
Kurdish Kurdî 
Kyrgyz кыргызча
Lao ພາສາລາວ
Latin Latinae
Latvian Latviešu valoda
Lithuanian lietuvių
Luxembourgish Lëtzebuergesch
Macedonian Македонски
Malagasy Malagasy
Malay Bahasa Melayu
Malayalam മലയാളം 
Maltese Malti
Maori Te Reo
Mandarin (Chinese) 普通话
Marathi मराठी 
Mongolian Монгол
Nepali नेपाली
Norwegian Norsk
Polish Polskie
Portuguese Português
Punjabi ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਦੇ
Romanian Română
Russian Rusă
Samoan Gagana fa’a Sāmoa
Scots Gaelic Gàidhlig
Serbian Српски
Sesotho Sesotho
Shona chiShona
Sinhalese සිංහල
Slovak Slovenčina
Slovenian Slovenščina
Somali Af-Soomaali
Spanish Español
Sundanese Sundanese
Swedish Svenska
Tagalog Tagolog
Tamil தமிழ்
Thai ภาษาไทย
Turkish Türkไทย
Urdu اردو
Uzbek Oʻzbekcha
Vietnamese Tiếng Việt
Welsh Cymraeg
Xhosa isiXhosa
Yiddish יידיש
Zulu isiZulu

So?  What is the point?  Just because you translate a booklet into the native language of certain countries does NOT mean you have been a witness to the nation.   Thousands of Christian missionaries have already done a far better work than Thiel will EVER do in those nations.  Besides, I can put a translate button on this very blog and reach hundreds of native tongues.  Is that really being a witness?  Not at all.  Even though this blog has reached 216 nations, it ultimately does not mean a thing.  Ultimately those figures are just as worthless as Thiel's list of languages.

The Doubly Blessed false prophet then makes the claim that his little group will soon be the fulfillment of Revelation 7.  It is quit appropriate that Thiel lives next to a waster plant, as his claim is a steaming pile of bullshit!

We are setting ground work for the fulfillment of Revelation 7, for as God’s word says there will be:

9 a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues (Revelation 7:9)

14 “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Revelation 7:14)

The narcissistic and delusional false prophet will NEVER take a witness to the entire world and will certainly NEVER be a fulfillment of Revelation 7.  That is an indisputable fact!   He is no more going to do this than Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry, or Rod Meredith is going to.  That is an indisputable fact too!

Amos Thiel then claims his "jesus" will soon open doors for him around the world.  How can that be when Thiel dose not even know the man or anything about him?  Sure he throws the name around a couple times in a sermon or magazine article, usually saved for the last few paragraphs.

Philadelphian Christians realize that they need to go through the doors that Jesus opens (Revelation 3:7-9) and that includes reaching people in as many languages as the doors open to do so.

He then ends his "fact list" with rather comical statement:

Although we have a lot more to do, we in the CCOG are leading The Final Phase of the Work. 

SaveSaveSaveSave

Dying For God's Sake: What If I Prefer "Holistic Medicine"?

Kathleen has a relevant post up about ht use of holistic medicine in "treating" children's medical issues.  Growing up in the church this was common practice since going to doctor's was strictly prohibited.  That anointed cloth was the cure all along with lemon juice, honey, vinegar and whisky for colds and Mogen David wine for cuts and scrapes.

There are lots of bright, loving parents out there who are afraid of or have a problem with medical science. So when their kids get sick, they "treat" them with "alternative medicines." What's wrong with that?

First of all, most parents aren't familiar with the course a disease takes, so they can mistake what appears to be "getting better" for actually getting worse, much, much worse.

Second, "alternative medicines" that have stood the test of time--that work--aren't called alternative medicine; they're called medicine. Props to Tim Minchin.

Here's why you don't want to "treat" your child with holistic medicines to the exclusion of proper care from a licensed healthcare provider: In a heartbreaking case, Tamara Lovett, a Canadian mom from Calgary, Alberta "treated" her seven-year- old son, Ryan, who was sick with not just one, but several treatable illnesses, with "holistic medicines." He died. Had she taken him promptly to a medical doctor, he would be alive today. She stood trial and was found guilty of "failing to provide the necessaries of life, causing death." I don't want that to happen to you. More important, I don't want your child to die unnecessarily. 

Now there is reason to be concerned about the over-use of antibiotics, and you should talk to a licensed healthcare provider if you are wondering about that. There's also a very helpful book available to help you talk intelligently with that doctor. Breaking the Antibiotic Habit: A Parent's Guide to Coughs, Colds, Ear Infections, and Sore Throats by Paul A. Offit, MD. Caution: reading this book, even repeatedly, does not make you a licensed healthcare provider, and you need to take your child to a real one. Use this book to help you have intelligent conversations with healthcare providers.   

So if you like using, say, "aroma therapy," knock yourself out; it will make your house smell good. But when your kids are sick, for God's sake, for your own sake, and most importantly for your children's sake, take them to a licensed healthcare provider. 

Dying for God's Sake

Ignore-ance- "What you ignore, not only what you don't know, but what you won't know."

“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us.” 
― Neil deGrasse Tyson

"As far as  Dr. Neil DeGrasse Tyson goes, are you serious? In all due respect, he comes across as a zealot to push an anti-God agenda and certainly not as a scientist interested in the truth. I watched several of his television programs years ago and my recollection is that I found his 'proofs' sorely lacking"

Dr. Robert Thiel

“... there is no shame in not knowing.  The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior "fill the vacuum left by ignorance....."

The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.” 

"… but people prefer reassurance to research.”

― Neil deGrasse Tyson

Astrophysicist

"As far as  Dr. Robert Thiel goes, are you serious? In all due respect, he comes across as a zealot to push a Only I Understand God agenda and certainly not as a theologian interested in the truth. I watched several of his youtube videos years ago and my recollection is that I found his 'proofs' sorely lacking"

Not Neil DeGrasse Tyson