Dave Pack: Do Not Loathe My Position As Apostle When I Change, Clarify and Make Complete U-Turns

For decades, the Church held fast to an overly simplistic prophetic timeline. While true after a fashion, this understanding either ignored or misunderstood other verses. Christians were to faithfully hold on to this old thinking as it was “present truth” (II Pet. 1:12).

Over the last few years, God has greatly expanded our prophetic knowledge. Instead of using a vision or a visitation from an angel, the God who said He changes not (Mal. 3:6) chose to reveal prophetic truth to His Church through an apostle! Appreciate the significance of this. God wants His apostle, guided by the Holy Spirit, to put together the grand prophetic puzzle.

Adjusting decades of incomplete thinking is not easy. God anticipated there would be moments of clarification or, at times, complete U-turns in understanding. Therefore, He tells us in I Thessalonians 5:20 to not despise, loathe or feel contempt toward this process.

How does “prove all things” apply in this situation?

Led by an apostle, the entire Church must prove the prophetic truths God is revealing. In other words, we may have to “test” several scenarios before coming to a full understanding of God’s intent.

Most are familiar with proving established doctrine. Far fewer are familiar with the process of how doctrine is initially revealed to the Church. The latter is not always a clean process.

“Proving all things” in light of prophetic understanding is not an invitation for heresy—anything contrary to the official teachings of the Church. For individuals to keep or throw out prophetic doctrines at their own discretion would lead to chaos at worse and confusion at best. It would also violate speaking the same things and being of the same mind and judgment.

Avoid going out on a limb and taking a “twiggy” approach to doctrinal understanding. Stick to prophetic doctrines as they are being taught.

Since prophecy is only to be known in part until fulfilled (I Cor. 13:9, 12), there is inevitably a process of trial and error when seeking complete understanding. God went so far as to record the mistakes of previous apostles to comfort future leaders and those who look to them for guidance.

Dave Pack 

Dave Pack's Kingdom of God...Wait till you see how it all plays out...

Double click to enlarge

If you thought Bwana Bob was pulling things out of the air or his a.... to preach as truth, wait till you see Dave Pack's chart above.

Jesus comes for the second time to Wadsworth where he and Dave will set up a new kingdom with houses and lands. Dave, JC, and a select few of the righteous will dwell in peace and harmony for 3 1/2 years. Then all hell breaks loose and there is 16 - 18 months of hell as the man of sin is revealed and sorrows rain down.

As the time of sorrows is in full swing, Dave's JC comes for the 3rd time! Poor guy, he has returned so many times that I doubt even he knows where he is in the grand scheme of things. During this time all the sheep and goats will be judged and Satan and his demons will be cast back into heaven!  This all lasts for  3 1/2 years.  WTH?  Is there no end to the stupidity that comes out of Dave and the rest of the apostate splinter leaders?

Then another 3 1/2 years dawns and we find out that Satan and his demons have pissed off God so much that he casts them back down to earth to wreak havoc. Bwana Bob will start sacrifices and commit the abomination of desolation in the temple, while Ron and Laura Weinland will be witlessly witnessing in Jerusalem.

Such a glorious time to be a COG member and be alive to witness all of this greatness unfold before their eyes!

After 3 1/2 years of this mess, God returns!  Woo Hoo!

Millennial bliss happens and everyone since Adam will be raised.

Dave and Jesus will be ruling from Wadsworth while Herbert Armstrong will be in charge of re-educating the world with resurrected Pasadena ministers and evangelists who will be teaching the world how life should be while the rest of the COG members are off on other planets ruling their worlds with iron-fisted millennial bliss.

Isn't being a Church of God member a great thing!

Zerubbabel Circumcises His Son And Offers Him Up To Yahweh

Zerubbabel ( Michael Noordhoek ) has a new video up and it is crazier than hell.  He talks about circumcising his son and being will to sacrifice him and offer him up to Yahweh.  I don't know if this is the son he produced with his daughter that he bragged about a couple years ago or not.

He goes on to say it has been 436 days since he got out of jail.

Talks about his new magic shoes of affliction, and a box he got from Amazon, a B-36 box that corresponds to Issac being alive 36 years.

His god, who has 14 eyes, has been showing him just how things are.

He has been sent by his god now for 9 1/2 years and no one believes him or god.

This is the face of Armstrongism at its worst.

This will be Bob Thiel in 10 years after his string of prophetic failures drives him over the edge.

Brenda Denzler: "...the day I was disfellowshipped, it felt like the earth literally weaved and wobbled under my feet"

What Doesn't Kill You Makes You

One survivor on "New Normals" and living through "apocalyptic" times that reveal who we really are.

BY BRENDA DENZLER

PUBLISHED MARCH 31, 2020  www.curetoday.com 

I have faced the apocalypse three times, now, in my life. I managed to come through the first two. Not unscathed…but I did survive. However, the world that I knew afterward was not the same one I'd known before.

The first time it happened I was 30 years old. When I was in my early teens, I'd joined a large fundamentalist religious cult that preached the end of the world by about 1975. Of course, that didn't happen, but personally, it more or less did. I wound up leaving the church in 1982 — getting kicked out actually. As I walked over to a neighbor's house the day I was disfellowshipped, it felt like the earth literally weaved and wobbled under my feet. It was a blow to lose the world I'd known for fifteen years. All the things I thought I knew, all the things I'd done because that was just what good, righteous people do…. All gone. Life went on, however, a new and different life than the one I'd thought I'd have.

The second time was in 2009 when I was diagnosed with inflammatory breast cancer. Another little apocalypse, but this time it challenged not just my worldview and my way of being in the world, but my life itself. Like the first time, I survived this, too. I was lucky. But also like the first time, my life was never the same. This time, though, there was a name for what I was facing — a "new normal."

Today, I'm in the middle of the third apocalypse of my life: the COVID-19 pandemic. No…that's not quite right. This time "we" are in a little apocalypse, not just me by myself. And we're not in the middle of it at all — we've only just begun.

Our way of being in the world is changing every day. Things we thought we knew, things that we thought were truths and steadfast parts of our lives that we could pretty much rely upon, are being revealed as only provisionally true or frankly untrue. Almost everything is in flux for us now, like the ground that moved under my feet decades ago when my personal world shifted on its axis.

We will, however, find a collective new normal. Eventually. I've never liked the term. It makes it sound like everything gets OK again. It's maybe just a little different, but it's basically just like it was before. Before the world fell apart due to a belief system collapse or due to a cancer diagnosis. That's not true though. As many cancer survivors know, a "new normal" always means leaving something behind, something that you inevitably miss.

I miss the certainty and reassurance of being a fundamentalist — of having my world consist of blacks and whites, wrongs and rights cosmic checklists that I can mark off to make sure that I'm OK and in God's good graces. I miss the way I felt good before cancer, a feeling of well-being and the ability to do things that are now beyond me, not to mention the assumption (false though it was) that the future only holds more of the same.

Today, I also miss the way I lived before COVID-19. Coming and going as I pleased, knowing that if I went to the grocery store I'd be able to get whatever I needed, not worrying about whether my high-risk status dooms me to my worst nightmare: the choice between drowning in the waste products from my own COVID-infected, self-destructing lungs or having a tube pushed down my throat to try to force oxygen into me--or being denied that because I'm too old at 66. I worry about the safety of my family and my friends. I am scared senseless at the unnecessary magnitude of the economic collapse that threatens to bedevil us as surely as the late effects of cancer treatments.

I only know one thing for sure. It's a thing that most cancer survivors already know: What doesn't kill you, makes you. It doesn't make you stronger, or prettier, or healthier or more kind or charitable…. It just makes you more of whatever you already are.

We will find a new normal, once this global mini-apocalypse has passed (at least, in its extreme form). What that new normal will be like is up to us. We will lose something, for sure. We will have to mourn what we've lost. But there will be no going back. What we are left with will have to do; it will have to be - or become - good enough.

Take a look in the mirror. Take a look at everyone around you in your life. Take a look at the human race. We are in the process of becoming more of whatever we already are, and we're going to have to live with it for a long time. Let's do what we each can to make it our best. As John Denver said in his song, The Eagle and the Hawk, "reach for the heavens and hope for the future, and all that we can be and not what we are."

Be safe. Stay well. Help others.

Brenda Denzler

UPDATE: $90,000 Being Sought For James Malm Memorial

James Malm's son is seeking $90,000.00 to honor his dad and support him during this time of grief. I am not trying to be insensitive here, but no memorial or funeral costs $90,000.00. If he cannot afford to maintain a web site then it needs to be shut down.  I have never understood why people in the COG who think they are prophets and/or God's mouthpiece for new revelation expect people to pay to maintain their lifestyles. 

James Malm, passed away unexpectedly on June 5, 2020 . James was 70 years of age. A prolithic writer James had worked tirelessly on the shininglight websites suddenly leaving behind friends and family including his eldest son and best friend David malm,  James  and  David relied on contributions from visitors to his websites. During such a horrible time like this, those closest to James should not have to worry about finances. Therefore, I would like to start a Go Fund Me page in order to keep going while I grieve for my Dad. I appreciate your generosity, thank you

UPDATE:

James' wish was to see his site up all through the tribulation so it could help wayward COG members. How absurd!

So after some thought I decided I will be going to white rock to put dads ashes in the ocean, We talked about a day trip there for years and never went. 

My plans are to study this work and take things one day at a time, James wrote for hours everyday and I was mistaken when I said there were many more posts Im new to using this blog. 

James would tell me how he wanted his sites up during the tribulation to help people. 

Im not gonna lie I could really use some help if you would like to help with the funeral cost or send support I bank at rbc under spooky____@________ also is my paypal [auto deposit is set up now] 

Good News! You Have 4-5 Years To Do What You Want Till The Tribulation Hits in 2025 (or later, maybe much later, or...)

It is official! The only True Prophet of God on earth today has decreed that the trib will not happen till at least 2025, or maybe later. That means we have 4-5 more years to do what we want and enjoy life!  No more sitting in some dank high school gym, Masonic Lodge, or sitting at home dressed in Sabbath wear listening to your favorite prophet speak for 4.5 hours as he goes over 176 points on why he is The Man! Now it is time to party down!  Enjoy life while you can!

The Great Tribulation Cannot Start Before 2024!


Those who believe and understand what the Bible actually teaches realize that the Great Tribulation cannot begin before 2024.
While years ago I wrote that the Great Tribulation could start during Donald Trump’s first term (which ends in January of 2021), it should now be more certain for others to realize that this is so.
Jesus gave a variety of signs/events that had to happen prior to the start of the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. Not only have many not happened, a preceding event in Daniel 9:27 involving the confirmation of a seven-year deal still has not happened. Since it did not happen as of yet, this means that it is not possible for the Great Tribulation to begin for at least 3 1/2 years (half of a biblically-prophetic week).

I imagine Jesus is getting pretty pissed at having to constantly cancel his second coming (or 3rd if you are Dave Pack) because people in the Churches of God just aren't ready. Plus, with so many prophets running around speaking in his name, I imagine it is hard to keep track of which one he is supposed to be returning to. 

At this instant, unless we see more major conflict in the Middle East between now and the end of the Summer and Daniel 9:27 fulfilled in the Fall, it is unlikely that the Great Tribulation can begin prior to 2025.
People who claim to be COG, like Ronald Weinland and the late James Malm, have repeatedly been in error as to timing as they have looked to their own understanding instead of what the Bible teaches.

I find it funny to watch the various self-appointed prophets of Armstrongism constantly claiming the other guy is wrong, while they never are. It does not require much thinking by COG members or the public to know that Ron Weinland is a liar. He proved that in 2008 when he became the laughing stock of San Franciso and the COG.

The Great Tribulation is coming, but it will not begin in 2020 or 2021.

The problem boys and girls is that NO ONE outside the True Prophet's group has the intelligence or theological understanding to know WHEN the trib is about to hit so they can skedaddle to Petra and start decorating caves and digging latrines. Because you are not in his little cult, you CANNOT know when to flee or when the trib is about ready to hit. What an inconvenience!

That being said, please understand that the COGs associated with the Sardis and Laodicean churches cannot possibly know when the Great Tribulation will begin unless they change..

CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late (see also The Laodicean Church Era).

As usual, our wanna-be self-appointed True Prophet has a long list of points to prove he is right and everyone else is wrong. It is a laundry list of some of the most idiotic stuff you could ever read and comes from a mind that constantly lives in a state of make-believe. It is a psychotic fantasy dream world, literally!

You will quickly see that he considers all other COG's to be blithering idiots and incapable of interpreting scripture. He and he alone is The Man!

Here is a listing of some of the wrong prophetic views of real and claimed COG groups:

1) Many COG groups (ICG, CGI, UCG, COGaIC, CG7-D, CGG, CEM, etc.) do not officially teach and/or do not believe in the idea of Church eras (The Churches of Revelation 2 & 3), though they sometimes teach about the churches of Revelation. They tend to take more of a preterist (past) view of those churches, despite the fact that many statements made to them had to have future prophetic ramifications (e.g. Revelation 1:19; 3:3; 3:10). Because of that they do not teach certain prophetic aspects of this, most do not see their own problems and will have to go through the Great Tribulation.

2) Many COG groups do not believe that the Gospel of the Kingdom still needs to be preached to the world as a witness per Matthew 24:14 (e.g. GCW, PCG), do not really make that a high priority (e.g. COGWA, CGG), or do so in less than truly loving the truth, hence do not have the real Philadelphian work. As only the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world, they will not understand when Matthew 24:14 is fulfilled or when to flee per Matthew 24:15. Hence they do not have or lead the Philadelphian work. Only the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the hour of trial that will come on the whole world. There you have it once again, your salvation rests in his hands. There is no other COG or any church anywhere in the world that can protect you from the hour of trial coming. No one!

3) At least three groups misunderstand the Gospel and COG doctrines so much (PCG, CGPfK, and RCG) that I question if their top leaders are actually converted members of the COG. Two of those leaders have had major predictions be proven false (CGPFK and RCG).

I don't need to question whether our True Prophet is converted or not, it is plain as day. He is not. He is not even Christian because he denies the very one he claims to follow.

4) Many, if not most, COG groups do not realize that the Great Tribulation begins with the King of the North invading the USA. UK, and/or their Anglo-Saxon descended allies (Daniel 11:39).

Pure unadulterated bunk! This is the fantasy world he has been dreaming about for years. Even Rod Meredith mocked his understanding on this, as did most LCG ministers.

5) Many COG groups misunderstand the identity of the King of the South (Daniel 11:40-43), and some have the wrong prophetic sequence regarding the King of the South (see PCG and LCG do not understand the end-time King of the South sequence–do you?). This is not the order that Daniel 11 teaches (see Who is the King of the North?). This view overlooks the fact that since the Great Tribulation is the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7), that it begins with the USA and its Anglo-Saxon allies like the United Kingdom getting invaded (cf. Daniel 11:39). Some of the groups cling to this sequential error, because it was once held by the late Herbert W. Armstrong, who changed his view by 1979 (Armstrong, Herbert W. The Time We Are In, Now. Pastor General’s Report-Vol 1, No. 15, November 20, 1979). Since the King of the North will eliminate those of the strongest fortresses (the USA, Canada, etc.) in Daniel 11:39, prior to invading the King of the South in Daniel 11:40, those who hold to this view will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin until after it has started.

The only person who knows what will happen is our True Prophet. He and he alone has the answer. Herbert and his crew were too dumb to understand prophecy. God had to finally give the truth to our True Man!

6) Some (CEG, GCG-UK) teach that there is no biblically-required King of the South, while at least one group is unsure (CGF-NW)–but this is an error (see also Is the Future King of the South Rising Up?). This error contributes to other prophetic errors that those groups have.


7) Some have insisted that the final King of the South will be from the nation of Ethiopia. This is partially based upon a mistranslation in the KJV version of the Bible as well as a position that the late Herbert Armstrong once held. However, he changed his position in the 1960s and 1970s to an Arabic-Muslim confederation. Those who insist that the final King of the South must be Ethiopia will not possibly realize that the Great Tribulation will begin until it is too late (RCG once held that position, but later changed it; in 2018 LCG has pushed involvement, but not specifically kingship for Ethiopia).


8) Several COG groups (like CGG, RCG, PCG, COGWA) clearly misunderstand Daniel 9:27, the second half of which ties in with Daniel 11:31 and Jesus’ words in Matthew 24:15. Those who misunderstand it will not have a proper pre-warning of what is happening nor likely know when the Great Tribulation will begin.

Neither will any follower of our True Prophet, because none of this stuff is true. The church overall has spent 8 decades feeding us one bullshit story after another and not once has any of it been true when it comes to prophecy. All have been totally ignorant of prophecy and still are because that is where their focus is and not on the one to come. That inconvenient dude is always left by the wayside as the COG prepared to fight off the rampaging hoards of Germans, Muslims and Chinese or whoever the current boogeyman the church needed as a scapegoat.

9) Various COG groups (UCG, COGWA, COGaIC, RCG, and CGOM, come to immediate mind, but they are not the only ones) have so many areas of undefined prophecy that they will not know what certain events will mean. And groups who define matters wrongly will have problems that way as well (PCG and LCG come to immediate mind, but so do nearly all other COG claimed groups).


10) A couple of groups, such as Church of God-Preparing for the Kingdom of God and Triumph Prophetic Ministries, have been repeatedly proven wrong about their dates for the start of the Great Tribulation and the return of Jesus Christ. Those who rely on the leaders of those groups really do not understand biblical prophecy. 

As has our True Prophet, Rod Meredith, Gerald Weston, Herbert Armstrong, Garner Ted, Herman Hoeh, Dean Blackwell, John Rittenbaugh, and all the rest of the prophecy nuts in the church. 

11)  Certain groups teach improper interpretations of the 1335, 1290, and 1260 days of Daniel 12 (CGPFK is one) or have other problems with that (most other COG groups) that they will not understand when the Great Tribulation will start. Herbert Armstrong changed his view on this by 1979 and many never understood the change.

12)  Most COG groups fail to understand Habakkuk 2:2-8 and hence are not properly getting the warning out to the USA and UK. PCG totally misses it, and LCG, while it once would teach it, has backed off because of what appears to be internal politics. The rising ‘time bomb’ of USA debt is something that needs to be pointed out and Habakkuk 2:2-8 points out the biblical threat that this poses. It should be proclaimed and we in CCOG are doing it. Many do not realize that Habakkuk 2:2-8 is related to fleeing and the start of the Great Tribulation, that the time will come when those Philadelphians who understand it in its proper timeframe will flee, and is one of the reasons for the attack against the indebted descendants of the tribes of Joseph.

13)  At least one group (LCG) is no longer certain that France or certain other Israelitish nations will support the Beast power. This differs from the position specifically taught by the late Dibar Apartian as well as what the Bible teaches. Those who misunderstand this are likely to not possibly realize when the final Beast power has formed.

Dibar Apartian was not a sound theologian and made some of the most idiotic predictions and biblical interpretations ever. He caused a lot of damage over the decades with the junk he preached. 

14)  Many COG groups have various ‘Elijah heresies’ (CGI-derived groups and RCG come to mind). Because of this, they will not be able to recognize the final Elijah.

Every single COG out there that believes any human leader of any of the COG's is Elijah is a fool. That includes believing the self-appointed True Prophet we are expected to believe. 

15)  Some think that either there is no Elijah to come (ICG) or that it is the church and not an individual (cf. LCG), which goes against Jesus’ teachings on the subject in Mark 9:12-13 (for more details, see The Elijah Heresies).

Lazy Christians who need to be told what to believe and need an Elijah to come and save them because they have never been taught about what Jesus did and accomplished.  They need some self-appointed twit in the church to be their saviour and tell them what to do. Jesus cannot do anything for them, but our True Prophet can!

The COG has had literally hundreds of Elijah's pop up on the scene over the decades claiming they were the true Elijah.  I remember one who picketed with huge signs in front of the Hall of Ad in the 1980s for weeks on end, till his prophecy failed. He was a self-appointed liar like our True Prophet. 

16)  Many groups do not understand the differing persecutions (and other matters) to come in Daniel 7:25, 11:30-39, Matthew 24:9-22, and Revelation 12:14-17, hence when the prophesied wave of persecution initially hits the Philadelphians primarily (and not them), they will not see this persecution as evidence that the Great Tribulation is about to begin. The old Radio Church of God specifically applied the persecuting scriptures of Daniel 11:32-35 to the end time Philadelphian church.

Our True Prophet claims that he and he alone will be persecuted before any of the other COG's are. Because the other COG's are not being persecuted like he is, they will not know it is time to flee.

Never has the COG had a self-appointed leader filled with such a persecution-complex as we have with our True Prophet. This poor guy claims he is constantly being persecuted. He has no idea what persecution is as he sits in his nice home each night with his stomach full and his trusty glass of wine close by as he listens to the Young Ambassadors sing songs from the '70s and '80s and he dreams of days gone by when Rod Meredith actually liked him. Those were the good old days!

17)  Most groups that came out of groups once led by the late Garner Ted Armstrong (ICG, CGI, CEM, etc.) do not seem to teach that there is a physical place of safety (despite what Revelation 12:14-16 teaches), hence they will not be inclined to flee towards one just prior to the start of the Great Tribulation.

18)  Most ‘independents’ do not believe that they need to ‘gather together’ prior to the time to flee despite what Zephaniah 2:1-3 teaches, hence it is not likely they will be inclined to flee together when a group they are not part of does just prior to the start of the Great Tribulation.

Like Dave Pack, our True Prophet had a nightmare where a "demon" told him that it was his job to gather in all the wayward COG's and independents out there and bring them into his group so that there can be a final push and so he can bring as many to Petra as possible. 

19)  At least one group (PCG) misunderstands the final Prince of Rosh. Those who insist on a pre-return of Jesus Christ for the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 will be disappointed as that is in scriptural error.

20)  At least one COG group (CG7-D) basically teaches that most of the events of Revelation have already taken place and no one needs to worry about coming persecution. Jesus warned those of Sardis to be careful about losing the doctrinal understandings they had (Revelation 3:1-6), and this loss of prophetic knowledge proves that those in Sardis will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin.

If there was a Sardis era, which there isn't in this day and age, it is the only COG that is actually doing a work and making a difference in people's lives.  HWA, Meredith, and others used to mock the Church of God Seventh Day as being the Sardis era because they rejected a lot of the dreamed-up stuff HWA tried to foster off on them. COG7 ahs more members and baptizes more people in a year than all the COG's combined. They actually make a difference in peoples lives, unlike the present hodgepodge of floundering COG's

21)  At least one COG group (LCG) erroneously believes that the abomination of desolation of Daniel 11:31 occurs after the King of the North invades the King of the South. Since this will not happen that way, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.

22) At least one group (RCG) totally misunderstands various prophecies in Haggai and Zechariah and expect a type of reunification that is not prophesied. Those who rely on this and other misinterpretations will not know when the Great Tribulation will begin.

23)  At least one group (LCG) erroneously teaches that the ‘Falling Away’ warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2 has mainly to do with the world and Protestants and not the Church of God. This improper emphasis seems to be leading to a falling away of certain prophetic understandings for those who hold to it.

24)  Some groups teach (UCG, COGWA, LCG, CEG) that the man of sin who sits in the temple of God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4) is the Antichrist/false prophet, not the Beast of the Sea. Yet, it is this Beast of the Sea, the final King of the North. So, when this happens, those who hold to the wrong position will not understand its prophetic ramifications. The Beast identity of the ‘son of perdition’ (cf. Revelation 17:7-11) is important to understand in the end times.

Most people realize that the man of sin sits in Arroyo Grande. Has the church ever had a bigger sinner that our True Prophet?

25)  At least two groups teach that the ‘man of sin’ is (or could be) Joseph Tkach, Jr. (PCG, COG-FF). This absurd position also partially leads to many other misunderstandings.

26)  At least one group (RCG) has declared Satan will enter a COG leader to make him the man of sin.

I think this may have already happened. Never has the church had a man in its midst with more dreamed up self-aggrandizing qualifications than our True Prophet. From fake double blessings, wild fantastical nightmare/dreams, retracted blessings of Rod Meredith and so much more. Only a possessed mind that is on the verge of a psychotic break can come up with so much of this stuff.

27) A few teach that a Jewish temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt before Jesus returns (CBCG, RCG, COGFF, CEG, and TPM teach this, as do some in LCG). While this is remotely possible it is not required. Since this will not happen as a few sometimes teach, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.

28) At least two groups (PCG and LCG) teach that the Beast power will consist of 10 or 11 current nations in the European Union. The European Union has 28 nation members with several others hoping to join it. And while it may lose nations, the reality is that if the Beast power rises up when there are more than 11 nations in it, those who hold to that position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin. Under Herbert Armstrong, the old WCG taught in at least a dozen documents (Plain Truth, Good News, Tomorrow’s World, booklets, Co-worker letter, Bible Correspondence Course) that this passage referred to 10 nations or GROUPS OF NATIONS. Presuming it will be another number of nations, those who insist on 10 or 11 will not realize when the Great Tribulation will begin.

29) Some groups (CBCG and CGG) teach that the ten kings are to be in charge of ten regions around the world as opposed to being a primarily European power. Overlooking what will happen in Europe could mean that such a group would not understand when the Great Tribulation would begin.


30) None of the Laodicean or Sardis COGs seem to teach that the “strongest fortresses” in Daniel 11:39 refers to the USA–but it does. Although the evangelists at LCG all agreed I was correct about this, when I checked LCG’s two major websites in 2017, there was no place where LCG teaches this–this is an improper and dangerous error of omission for LCG–and for the other claimed COGs.

All the evangelists of LCG did NOT agree with our True Prophet. That is just a fantasy of his own making. Our True Prophet was widely mocked behind his back by certain LCG evangelists and leading ministers. Do not swallow the grandiose fantasy that LCG leaders looked upon our True Prophet as a true prophet of God. They did not. That is why Meredith had to publicly rebuke our True Prophet and knock him down a lot of rungs on the ladder.

31)  At least two groups seem to teach that the first verse in the Daniel 11 sequence relating to the beginning of the Great Tribulation is Daniel 11:40. Instead they should teach that it begins with Daniel 11:39 (see also USA in Prophecy: The Strongest Fortresses), which is shortly after Daniel 11:31, which is also consistent with the start of the time of Jacob’s trouble (Jeremiah 30:7; see also Who is the King of the North?). Those who hold to the Daniel 11:40 position will not understand when the Great Tribulation will begin.

32)  The leader of at least former one group (GOI, James Malm, now deceased) has claimed that the Great Tribulation could begin within a year for the last 11 or so years. Since he did not recognize why this is in error, any his his remaining followers will not truly know when the Great Tribulation will begin.

Our True Prophet and others have been claiming the end is near for many years now.  The date keeps getting pushed back further and further as nothing happens year after year and they get older. The church is never ready. Never fear though, the True Prophet is here to tell you when the crap is hitting the fan.  You are supposed to believe you need him. You don't need that inconvenient dude who said to place your trust and faith in him and he would carry your burdens because you have been made weary from all the bloviating COG prophets.

33)  Some independents and some groups (PCG comes to mind) insist that the late Herbert W. Armstrong was the final ‘Elijah to come’ despite the fact that he has been dead since 1986, and that death disqualifies him according to his writing about that.

34)  Leaders of at least two groups (CGPFK and RCG), who once insisted publicly that Herbert Armstrong must be the final Elijah, now falsely claim that they hold that role.

As does our True Prophet. Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, and a couple other crackpots believe they are Elijah. In order to leave them by the wayside, our True Prophet also had to claim he was Elisha, Amos, Habbakuk, Jeremiah, Joseph, Micah, Johsua, Malachai, and a host of other nonsensical names. 

35)  Some groups either do not believe there is an Elijah to come (CGIcomes to mind) or do not believe he needs to be a person (LCGcomes to mind).

36)  At least one group has confused the final Elijah with the return of Jesus (LCG comes to mind).

37)  At least one group has publicly claimed that God has no prophets today and will not have any until the two witnesses are empowered (LCG comes to mind). This downplays how God works (cf. Ephesians 2:20) and that the Bible teaches, “Surely the Lord God does nothing, Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7).

There is no need for a prophet today. The one and only prophet you need has come and will come again, at some point. You don't need to worry when or about all of these lying self-appointed wannabe's littering the landscape out there. They are worthless and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

38)  At least one group (CGG) teaches that the Beast power is not European. Since the Beast power will arise in Europe, those who do not understand this will not realize when the Great Tribulation is about to begin.

39)  At least one group (LCG) teaches that the European Union will collapse like the old Roman Empire. But the lessons of history and the Bible contradict that.

40)  At least two groups (BICOG and TPM) have taught that a US president is the King of the North or could be the Antichrist.

41)  Nearly all COG groups and independents do not accept that God has been fulfilling prophecies of Acts 2:17-18 .

And there you have it, 41 useless and irrelevant points that are of no use to anyone who is a follower of Christ. Because our True Prophet has lied to us so much over the last several years and uttered many false prophecies, he is not to be believed or followed. If you are a follower of Christ and scripture you immediately know what a liar he is. Scripture condemns him.

So the next time you see Bob Thiel bloviating on his miraculousness, turn and run. Your brain and God with thank you!

Biblical Ignoramuses In The COG Mocking "So-called" Christians

A comment on a previous post:

I know a guy who used to idolize Theil of the Mayan Cross back when he was the COG Writer. He would always send me "insightful" from the COG Writer. One time, the COG Writer, and my friend, were cruelly mocking "co-called Christians" and their ridiculous "just believe" philosophy and claimed that the "just believe Christians" knew nothing about the Bible. So, I sent him these verses:

Acts 13:39Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses. 

Romans 10:9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 

1 John 3:23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 

1 John 5:5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 

Romans 10:10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 

John 5:24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 

John 6:29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” 

Romans 10:4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. 

Mark 5:36Overhearing what they said, Jesus told him, “Don’t be afraid; just believe.” 

John 6:40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” 

John 6:47Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 

John 3:14-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 

Mark 1:15“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” 

Mark 9:23“‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes.” 

John 1:7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 

John 1:12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 

John 6:35Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 

John 7:38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 

John 8:24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” 

John 11:40Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?” 

John 12:44Then Jesus cried out, “Whoever believes in me does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 

John 12:46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness. 

Acts 10:43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” 

Acts 16:31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 

Romans 1:16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 

Romans 3:22This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Theil cannot be a Prophet from God since he is such a Bible ignoramus. 

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Dave Pack and his ministers continue their vile treatment of members

From the comments on Dave Pack: "Could you please check your records to see if your Pentecost offering was mailed?"

.. My 82 year old mom and my sister are in the RCG. My mom has a small pension, my sister is looking after her and doesn’t have an income. I sometimes give them money, bring them groceries. Make sure there’s food on the table for them. They struggle financially.

My sister told me today that their ‘minister’ called her last week to ask her about her Pentecost offering: they hadn’t received it yet.. These sharks have the nerve to tell two people with NO money and a very low income to send money! My mom and sister were in tears about it, asking for my help so they could give some money to ‘the church’.

Pack and his ‘ministers’ deserve to burn in hell 

Living Church of God: The Path To Peace

Living Church of God has the way to peace! Who knew?

Considering its previous leader's divisive history in the Church of God and his outright rebellion against Herbert Armstrong, his heavy-handedness in Church Administration and his rebellion in starting two separate COG's after apostatizing from the Worldwide Church of God, Living Chruch of God is in no position to claim they are a pathway to peace. Imagine LCG leaders and some LCG members being rulers in the world to come?  Who would want to be trained by them or live under their rule? Oh, hell no!

The Path to Peace: Many have been shocked by the recent eruption of riots and violence, anger and hatred all over the world—and many wonder what is happening in a world where many yearn for peace. However, the Apostle Paul warned, “in the last days perilous times will come,” as proud, self-centered people mistreat and attack one another (2 Timothy 3:1–5). Jesus also prophesied that wars and rumors of wars and ethnic strife would increase prior to His return (Matthew 24:3–7). Yet Jesus is coming back as the “Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6–7). Those who will rule with Him will show the world the way to peace and explain why human efforts could not bring peace to the world (Isaiah 59:8). The way to peace involves learning to love and live by the laws of God (Psalm 119:165), and the “work of righteousness” (keeping the commandments) is what leads to peace (Isaiah 32:17; Psalm 119:172). Brethren, we have been called to become peacemakers (Matthew 5:9; James 3:17–18). Let’s learn the way to peace, so we can fulfill our incredible calling to bring real peace to a troubled world.

Have a profitable Sabbath,

Douglas S. Winnail