Former COG Member Speaking At London Event on “To a Place of Safety? The Elect in the Great Tribulation”

PROPHECY IN THE NEW MILLENNIUM: 

When Prophecies Persist 

 

 

 

INFORM Seminar XLVIII
Wolfson Theatre, New Academic Building,
London School of Economics, Saturday 12 May 2012

http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/mapsAndDirections/howToGetToLSE.htm

To register: WE ARE NOW TAKING PAYPAL BOOKINGS: http://inform.ac/node/1550
Or post a booking form (attached) and a cheque payable to ‘Inform’ to Inform, Houghton St., London WC2A 2AE. (Inform@lse.ac.uk; 020 7955 7677).
Tickets (including buffet lunch, coffee and tea) paid by 16 April 2012 cost  £38 each (£18 students/unwaged).
NB. Tickets booked after 16 April 2012 will cost £48 each (£28 students/unwaged).
A limited number of seats will be made available to A-Level students at £10 before 16 April 2012 (£20 after 16 April). A party of 5 or more A-Level students from one school can include one member of staff at the same price.

PROVISIONAL PROGRAMME
The presence of speakers on an Inform programme does not mean that Inform endorses their position.
The aim of Inform Seminars is to help participants to understand, or at least recognise, different perspectives.
For Inform’s codes of practice see www.Inform.ac

9.30-10.00   Registration

10.00-10.10 Professor Eileen Barker (Professor, LSE; Chair & Honorary Director, Inform) Welcome

10.10-10.20 Dr Suzanne Newcombe and Sarah Harvey (Research Officers, Inform) Introduction

10.20-10.45 Dr Simon Dein (UCL and University of Durham) “Prophecy: Social Scientific Perspectives”

10.45-11.10 Sheila Tremlett (former member of the Worldwide Church of God) “To a Place of Safety? The Elect in the Great Tribulation”

11.10-11.35 Coffee

11.35-12.00 Dr Hugh Beattie (The Open University) “The Mahdi and the End-Times in Islam”

12.00-12.25 Abi Freeman (mid-lifer) “Living in the Time of the End”

12.25-13.00 Group Discussions

13.00-14.00 Lunch

14.00-14.25 Andrew Fergus Wilson (University of Derby) “From the Mushrooms to the Stars: 2012 and the Apocalyptic Milieu”

14.25-14.50 Kevin Whitesides (PhD Candidate, University of Edinburgh) “New Age: (Still) Doing What it Says on the Tin”

14.50-15.15 David G. Robertson (PhD Candidate, University of Edinburgh) “(Always) Living in the End Times: The “Rolling Prophecy” of the Conspiracy Milieu”

15.15-15.40 Tea

15.40-16.05 Wendy Grossman (freelance writer and founder of The Skeptic Magazine) “Chasing the Horizon: Prophecy in Secular Contexts”

16.05-16.30 Professor Gordon Melton (Baylor University and founder and Director of the Institute for the Study of American Religion)
“Looking into the Future: Why Prophecies Will Persist”

16.30-17.00 Panel Discussion

Dennis On: "The Plain Truth About Scoffers"

The Plain Truth About Scoffers

2 Peter 3:
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

The average well read member of the WCG knew these scriptures well and , in fact, all the scriptures that showed just how soon, around the corner, in the next 3, 5, 10, 15 (pick one) and shortly the Second Coming of Jesus was going to be.  We were in the final gun lap, which turned into laps until WCG/COG ran out of bullets.  We all knew how the Apostle Paul went from all will live to see the Second Coming to some will die but not himself who would be changed to "oops, I fought a good fight and I'm outta here..."  We all should also understand the Gospel Jesus telling the disciples that they would see it in their time as well.  I know we tried, but you cannot make "soon" or "shortly" in the New Testament mean "a period of time lasting thousands of years that is still within the parameters of  the Bible meaning of 'soon' and 'shortly.'"  That is just nonsense.

So as time went on and on and on and on to where members were joining On and On Anonymous just to stay on track,  scoffers at the whole idea of "soon" arose in the Church.  Is that really all that difficult for us to believe and in doing so were they really doing it because they had evil desires?  Is that not a bit like saying "the only reason Scientists want to believe Evolution is because they don't want to obey or believe God and the Bible."  Really???  Is that their motive.  Of course not but when scoffers, which is the church term used against people who merely notice things aren't going as advertised, arise, they have to be put in their place lest others start thinking this through on their own as well.

"Peter" goes on to say that they "deliberately forget,"  about Noah's Flood to justify their evil ways.  Really???   Can we see the hot button words that are used against those who notice such realities,  to demonize them to the church members?  I think we can.  Is the scoffer to blame for observing that nothing of what has been said to date about Jesus returning and the arrival of the Kingdom of God has happened yet or appears to be about to happen?  Can we see that what would be considered mature and sane observations by those not in the Church are only called scoffers by those in?  Can we see it is the leadership doing the labeling and it is the membership who is supposed to pick up on the negative word and apply it themselves to others outside the church or at least on the way out?  Of course we can.  

Peter again goes on to say that it is obvious God is giving humans more time in his infinite wisdom.  Sound familiar?  This is a classic recovery used when some predicted event does not come to pass.  It is never that the prediction was slap wrong from the beginning.  It is now that God is just so much more merciful than we thought and we have more time to get our act together.  There is nothing new under the sun. It's a great out when a simple "I was wrong," would do.  
And when all else fails, tell the brethren that while soon had dragged on and God has given us more time, Jesus will still come quickly and in a much more sneaky way than when we first believed.   So there you have it.  Sincere observers are scoffers.  They do it be evil and forget the Noah story.  God is giving us all more time.  But it can happen tonight so still send it in.   2 Peter shows that ministers have been using the same excuses and accusations against the observers among them for 2000 years.

Remember the buzz words and phrases used by WCG (and many many other fundamentalist organizations) when someone strayed for the "soon", "shortly" and "3-5 years and I mean it brethren"?  

Rebellious

Deceived

Scoffers

Worldly

Just want to sin

Unconverted

Never converted

Fallen away

chaff

bad seed

fence sitter

Lazy

Faithless

Taken by Satan

Buttheads

I'm sure you do and I am sure I have missed some good labels.  

But one man's scoffer is another man's wise observer.  Let's face it... the scoffers that Peter rails against were right!  Now whoever actually wrote the text adds the new twist that again it is the members fault as they need to know that "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day."  You see, the problem is with the members misunderstanding how God views time.  Of course this was not taught or mentioned in the early years when soon meant soon and shortly meant shortly.  It is only something one throws in after years of disappointment, growing older and seeing the hopeful die like everyone else.  Kinda like Ron Weinland chiding the brethren for thinking some things he said were literally true when in fact they were merely "spiritually true."  He made that up when what he also thought was literally true simply did not happen.  Of course, rather than say, "I goofed,"  the whole thing is redefined by leadership and the blame for ignorance is put on the membership.  Usually, "I NEVER said that," sneaks in there somewhere.  

The fact is that, as John Denver might say,  "Churches need their skeptics (scoffers) like the ocean needs the sand."  

When I or anyone else who has grown through the WCG years,  observes the reality of this or that wrong idea in the past or the foolishness of the ones being currently offered to keep the faithful faithful,  we are not scoffing.  It is a realistic, up to this moment and a true observation based on the observable fact that yet another date for "Soon" has come and gone.  

 It is not scoffing to notice that 100% of the predictions of Jesus Second Coming have been 100% wrong, 100% of the time over the last 2000 years.  That is just a 100% accurate observation.  It is only leadership within an organization that wants to keep the system intact and the "just around the corner" motivator alive and running who calls people scoffers and full of evil desires.  

Leadership must assign judgmental and negative labels to those who think outside the box and observe what any clear thinking human would observe in such situations.

  
The Apostle Paul NEVER admitted to anyone he was wrong about his soons and shortlys.  He kept changing the meanings until all he could come up with was "I have kept the faith..therefore there is laid up for ME..."   Kinda sad actually. While he does add "and not only to me," someone could have penned that in to fix the problem of all the others who had been faithful like Paul not being counted.  Habitually it was all about him in his writings.  Almost feels like the excuses the Captain of the latest Cruise Ship disaster made when he said he slid down the deck when the ship tipped and fell into a lifeboat that then left the ship.  (His second in command also ended up in that very same boat of all things.)  It is just terribly difficult to say, "I was wrong."

When "all those in Asia have forsaken me,"  Paul was unable and unwilling to ask himself why.  He simply asked God not to hold it to THEIR charge.  It would never have crossed Paul's mind to wonder why everyone thought he was nuts.  And so it is today.

As a result of Peter's statements, the soon that wasn't has been dragged out into a "soon" that only has meaning if one reads the Bible. Bible "soon" and "shortly" as well as days far spent really mean long, longer and really long times.   In the real world, we know better.  

A healthy skepticism protects people from going down the wrong paths or at least recognizing they are on one and rethinking the trip.  It is not scoffing. It is reality.  That "Scoffer" label is what those who do not think critically, or refuse to see what they do see, or refuse to say what they need to say, or believe everything they are told in the updates by the church, use.  Blame the messenger for the message is a very old old concept when it comes to Church leaders getting input they don't want to hear.  

  
I don't know if it's the last days or not.  But noticing that nothing has happened in 2000 years since the story ended is not scoffing.  The ultimate problem is that the WCG and the current COGs do not take observations from the bottom up.  All observations and skepticism on this or that must come from the top down.  If it does not, it is not a problem and the membership should not concern themselves with it.  Problems the leadership does not notice or have a clue about simply don't exist.  Problems the membership notices and has plenty of clues to work with are simply one of those listed on the  labels for the lazy and lying slackards listed above. 

To question Church teaching as part of the leadership is just endeavoring to stay on track and obey God with an occasional admission of "God is revealing more truth to the church."  To question the church teachings, or even the Biblical text from the bottom up is rebellion and is nothing but trouble for the one who notices. 

It's ok to be skeptical of claims made by Bible readers, including the minister.  It's ok to not be impressed with his education or the way he cobbles scriptures together to weave a tale.  The reason it is ok is because there will be things you will be expected to do because of his tale weaving.  It might be to send more in than you can afford, do something you normally would not do or believe something and act it out hurting yourselves, your family and mind in the process. 
The day might come when you will thank the Skeptic who opened your eyes to a problem that needed to be recognized and not just view the observations made as coming from unconverted and uncalled Scoffers.  

Sometimes todays scoffer becomes tomorrows heroic observer and their truth may truly set you free in ways you never could imagine.

Dennis C
DenniscDiehl@aol.com

Four Tornadoes Hits Charlotte NC: Satan Attacking LCG or God Protecting Them?

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Many will not forget the early morning hours of Saturday March 3, 2012 in the Reedy Creek neighborhood. Around 2:34 a.m. a EF-2 tornado with winds of around 135 mph touched down with a path of destruction 200 yards wide and 3.2 miles long. A total of 192 homes were damaged or destroyed...

A closer look at Saturday's tornado  

Was God punishing Charlotte North Caroling on Saturday Sabbath because of the presence of the Living Church of God headquarters?  Was Satan out after the town because of LCG represents  the only true Christians on the face of the earth??

Pretty soon we will hear Prophet Thiel and LCG claiming God protected their headquarters from the tornado and that no members were hurt or had property damage because God had protected them.

I guess in their minds it is OK for God to protect them while pulling a child from his bed and dropping along side the a freeway and destroying homes, churches and business buildings.

The best thing LCG could do is keep silent on this because what ever they say will make them out to be hypocritical fools.



Tornadoes confirmed in 4 NC, SC counties; 5 dead, 10+ hurt in Carolinas