Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
When Amy Allwine's life ended tragically, the scene just didn't make sense. It couldn't have happened how it appeared. But what about the dark web death threats she had gotten just a few months before? Someone had been out to get her, viciously, and had paid people to do it. Who was out to get Amy Allwine, and what secrets did her husband, Stephen Allwine, have?
Allwine is a United Church of God elder who murdered his wife because the church frowned upon divorce. There is a lot of information in this video I had not heard before. It's appalling to think that many in UCG still think he is innocent and was framed and others think he has a great opportunity to witness to fellow prisoners about UCG's god.
Disgraceful and cowardly blog! Until when do you harass the church like this? You are a coward and ungrateful, you must assume it, who bothers you so that you feel the right to do it? These messages are true teachings that can be useful to anyone, they help us to remember how we should act, not because we are acting badly at the moment.
Exit and Support Network has the following tidbits up about Micah Turgeon, son of Wayne Turgeon. He had apparently been planning for several months to escape from the cult compound in Edmond, Oklahoma. This departure added to the recent exposure of the UK financial statements for PCG and the crap has been hitting the fan. Flurry has decreed that no more sermons, sermonettes. etc be shared online to anyone.
Here is the beginning:
Micah Turgeon Has Left the PCG: July 12, 2022 Micah Turgeon, GF’s grandson [and and son of Wayne Turgeon], has left the PCG after months of preparation to “escape.” He was an H.W. Armstrong College student. –G.
Then the bit about Flurry canceling all sermons posted online:
PCG Makes Decision Not to Post Anymore Sermons Online: July 13, 2022 Well, it looks like GF and his top idiots got sick and tired of reading ESN’s critiques of their sermons and Bible Studies. They recently posted this announcement:
Announcement:
Headquarters has finished posting weekly sermons and Bible studies at pcg.church. Pastor General Gerald Flurry made this decision after considerable discussion with regional directors. The service was important during government lockdowns, but regular Sabbath services and Bible studies have now resumed. Mr. Flurry understands that there will be a very small number of exceptions who will still require this service. If you believe that your situation is an exception, please contact your regional director. If your exception is approved, you will be able to continue to access the recordings. (All members continue to have access to announcements.) But for the large majority of members and their families, we look forward to seeing you more at services and Bible studies.
ESN has exposed them to the hilt anyway and their continual sermons are basically only a re-hash of things. But Micah Turgeon left, so that’s huge!! hahaha They can wallow in that for a while! –[name withheld]
Typical Narcissistic Rage: July 13, 2022 I think it was an angry, emotional, impulsive decision to stop the online sermons and I believe it was the exposing of the UK financial reports [July 9 letter] and Micah Turgeon leaving that caused it. Close family like Micah leaving has to be a blow to their ego. Typical narcissistic rage. –Former PCG member
PCG is now on the warpath trying to discover who has been leaking sermons and other information. They are too dense to realize that in 2022 and with the proliferation of smartphones, internet services, and "dissident" sites they have lost all control now. I was told some time back that Flurry can ban smartphones all he wants, but many PCG members have kept them and still use them when they aren't around other church members. Many PCG members have resorted to leaving their phones in their cars when attending church services or other functions. They are losing control of their members just like all the other COG's currently are experiencing.
Another contributor to ESN had this to say when news of Micag Turgeon's escape spreads through the congregations, HQ, and the student body of HWA College:
July 13, 2022 As high on the ladder as Micah Turgeon was, you can bet there are members on the lower tiers that are thinking of bailing, too. Also, once the news of Micah Turgeon’s exit spreads, it might lead to more saying “I’ve had enough.”
As of right now most of Micah's articles are still up on the PCG site. As has happened in the past in the church as soon as someone who writes or preaches for the church ends up leaving, the church immediately scrubs their existence from all church offerings. It will be interesting to see how long he "exists" on PCG's website.
Another contributor made this astute observation about PCG losing control:
July 14, 2022 It is no happenstance that GF removed access to his secretive online sermons after ESN posted and analyzed their UK Financial Report [see July 9 letter above]. First, they shut down the tape libraries where even shut-ins couldn’t receive them; then the CD sermon tapes were ordered to be destroyed, then members weren’t to share their recorded sermons, next no smartphones were to be used, and now this. How many other tyrannical rules they’ve imposed on members is anyone’s guess. If this purported “one true church of God” is really “God’s Church,” then why are they hiding their sermons from outsiders, unlike what any genuine Christian church would do? The answer is because they reveal the sick control going on inside, including their Satanic no-contact ruling that causes untoward suffering. Yet, PCG will scream “Satan is persecuting God’s Church!” at any exposure of their evil deeds. I agree they will be unable to stop all info from getting out no matter how tight they try to control it. –A. R.
Micah joins a long line of COG children of top leaders who have planned their escapes from various COG's. Their mental well depended upon it. COG leaders are so blinded by their abusive techniques that they have no idea of the collateral damage they are causing to their own children and members. The mental anguish builds up for so long and then the dam bursts.
The Churches of God are in such a rapid downward spiral that they have no ability anymore to recover from it. Like many others before us, we should take great pride in contributing to the dissolution of Armstrongism.
Previous stories on Wayne Turgeon, Micah's father:
Only problem, David Pack is not a prophet and those verses cannot apply to him. He is an apostle and many of God's apostles have got the timing of Christ's coming wrong but that doesn't make them false. Paul , Peter and John all taught Christ was coming in their time but they were almost 2,000 years off. David Pack is still the 7th messenger (not prophet) of the last era of the church. His messages are inspired by God for a prophetic reason, the rise of scoffers who must come first (2 Peter 3:3-4)...
The reader was referring this:
What the Bible says about all Church of God prophets
Deuteronomy 18:20 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.
Jeremiah 14:14 14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
Luke 6:26 26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
Matthew 24:24 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
John 4:1-6 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
Well, it is Friday and time for the regular Friday Night Smack Down on things LCG members are not doing well. Never fear though, the ministry do all of the things listed below and so should the members. It is so refreshing to know that the ministry of the LCG now deals with members gently, respectfully and patiently, and most of all, are willing to listen. Hilarious!!
Skills that Promote Teamwork: Members of successful organizations develop the necessary skills to function together smoothly to accomplish goals. These skills can be identified and learned. Christians must develop the same skills—and many are clearly biblical. Effective team members are sensitive to the feelings of others and they avoid offending others (Matthew 18:7). They are forgiving and ignore insults because they are not easily offended (Proverbs 10:12; 17:9). Team players do not sit in judgment of other people—they make sure their own lives are in order (Matthew 7:1–5; James 4:11). Team players are peacemakers who promote harmony and work smoothly with others (James 3:17–18). They deal with people gently, respectfully, and patiently, and are willing to listen (James 1:19). Effective team players appreciate the team is made up of individuals with different talents and abilities who make unique contributions to the team (1 Corinthians 12:12) and that the main priority is to work together to achieve a goal while showing love to one another (Ephesians 4:16). Good team players have learned to love others—just as Jesus instructed. Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
Today is Tammuz 15 and Dave Pack wants to send everyone greetings from his weirdly designed upsidedown HQ building with its hydraulic-looking lifts on the top side of each corner to make the building look larger than it actually is...much like Dave's ministry. I always want to flip his building over so I can walk up the steps.
Anyway...
This is the day that Dave says the crap hits the fan with the beginning of the 1335 days.
In Jewish tradition, this day pictures five events relevant to Jewish history, one of which is the destruction of the temple.
Since Dave has set himself up as the one true end-time divine leader with his campus as so significant that Jesus will return to walk its hallowed grounds, and since Dave and all COG leaders claim the Bible was written for the end times, could this be the beginning of the destruction of the Wadsworth campus and Dave's empire? Is Dave's campus a latter-day symbol of the Temple? Just thinking like Dave does...
We can all be guaranteed that on Tammuz 16 not one damn thing will have happened to Dave, his campus, his church, and to his followers, other than experiencing yet another day of public humiliation. More excuses will surely hit the fan and be blown out into the universe for all to hear.
Never in the history of the Church of God movement have we seen such imbecilic predictions as we have been witnessing from our latest crop of self-appointed prophets. Every single one of them has been proven over and over to be liars. If they actually believed the Bible as they claim to and if members did the same, all of these guys should resign, shut down their churches, and members should walk out the door and never give another dime to them.
What the Bible says about all Church of God prophets
Deuteronomy 18:20 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”
Ezekiel 13:9
9 My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.
Jeremiah 14:14 14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.
Jeremiah 23:16
16 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the LORD.
Luke 6:26 26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.
Matthew 24:24 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 16:11-12
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
II Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Acts 20:28-30
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
II Peter 3:14-18
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
John 4:1-6 1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. 4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
Bobby Fischer was the Muhammad Ali of chess. He became the youngest person to ever win the US chess championship at the age of 14 and the only American-born player to ever win the World Chess Championship. But after defeating the Soviet Boris Spassky in 1972, Bobby Fischer never played another professional match for over thirty years. Instead, he became a recluse, preferring privacy over prize money. Not much is known about Bobby’s life after his 1972 win, but this episode premieres newly discovered tapes of Fischer, discussing his time in the Worldwide Church of God – the doomsday apocalyptic cult this series is devoted to.
In these tapes, which were made in Dec 1976 and Jan 1977, Bobby discusses his views on god, sex, and chess and, especially, how he came to resent Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted, the church’s leaders. These tapes provide a riveting snapshot of Bobby’s mental state during the time when he had essentially disappeared from public view and has great crossover appeal between those interested in cults and those interested in chess. The original tapes were about 5 hours long, and the best highlights are featured in this 30+ minute episode, which also features commentary from David Edmonds, co-author of Bobby Fischer Goes to War.
I would like to extend a special thank you to David Edmonds, Bill Hughes, and Dixon Cartwright for their commentary in this episode, and to Hughes and Margaret and Len Zola for speaking to me on background about these tapes.
If you would like to read the Ambassador Report interview with Bobby that is mentioned in this episode online, you can check it out here: Ambassador report: Bobby Fischer
If you would like to support Worldwide: The Unchosen Church, you can tell us to host it or toast it. Support will go to either hosting this show on Buzzsprout so others can find it for years to come (host it), or if you just want to appreciate the show, tell us to toast it and our team will gladly drink a beer and cheers to you. You can support us at: www.buymeacoffee.com/worldwidepod
From the one and only Native American Germanic Gentile, who has been doubly blessed and almost arrested, the greatest prophet to ever live and current leader of the best COG to ever exist since the first century, is letting his mind be disturbed by women who walk seductively.
Women today often dress skimpily, provocatively, and walk SEDUCTIVELY (Isaiah 3:16) — deliberately inciting sexual lust in the male mind. Clean social life is thereby undermined at just about every turn. Even a lot of our music and dances today are SUGGESTIVE of sex. Finally, all too often one or the other mate succumbs to these pressures of the world and actually COMMITS adultery.
We have been watching lately as Dave Pack has set endless dates which have all failed to come to pass and now watch as he continues to claim he is Elijah the prophet.
In the fantasyland of the Church of God movement, we have seen scores of men and a couple of women down through the decades that have set themselves up as Elijahs and issued dire warnings to the church. Even today in 2022 we have at least five other Elijahs running around spewing their contemptible nonsense: Bob Thiel, Gerald Flurry, Ron Weinland, Alton Billingsly, and Wade Cox. Dave is not new to the list as he was already declaring this in 2015 and earlier, however, he has been way more vocal recently as he has been setting specific dates under that mantle.
The ExRCG website by Marc Cebrian has a new post up about a recent incident with Dave Pack as he was speaking to his dwindling faithful at his compound in Wadsworth, Ohio regarding his Elijahship and things go downhill rather fast.
One has to assume that he is under extreme pressure considering the rapid-fire failures are stacking higher each day.
Marc reports:
We are on the cusp of the 15th of Tammuz, which begins tonight at sundown. This “make or break” moment is of paramount importance to David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God.
You and I know what will happen during those 24-hours. Wednesday will transform into Thursday. And that is all. But David C. Pack does not know that yet.
There is either a lot of excitement or a lot of worry over at Headquarters today.
For me, I find it hard to believe that there can be much excitement left for RCG members who have set through these endless pronouncements and then sat there in their homes as Jesus failed to return.
Marc then goes on to report this:
During Part 381 given on the Sabbath of July 9, 2022, there was a very uncomfortable moment which occurred at the 56-minute point. All humor aside, watch it unfold.
I was shocked that this was distributed to the entire church because during my tenure in the Media Production Services Department, it would have not gone out. Okay, maybe. I would have pushed HARD for this one edit. Granted, at that time messages were actually edited and not rushed out “as delivered” which has both pluses and minuses. This was a big minus.
It is obvious those additional four hours of work are not as important any more. Hence, we get a moment like we just saw.
Oh the things we have cut out over the years…wow. But this is by the far the worst I have ever seen. It was a next-level moment that should never have left the room.
But they did release it and here we are.
How many other moments like this happen in the office only a few see?
It could just be that David C. Pack did not get enough sleep the night before. Or he did not drink enough water. Or maybe it is post-COVID “brain fog,” which many people experience.
The ministry in Wadsworth has to be asking themselves what is wrong with Dave. Deep down many of them know that Dave is wrong, yet they continue to stroke his back and continue to crowd around him clapping like happy seals.
Marc makes then makes this comment:
The stress and pressure he must feel day to day is tremendous. Each time he finds the answer in the Bible about when the Kingdom of God is going to arrive, he is later met with failure. Then, he has to go back to the drawing board to scour the Bible and find another answer to show how he was “correct about the picture but just got the timing wrong.”
He truly believes God has given him this assignment and that he is a real apostle. The weight on his shoulders grows as the years wear on while the frantic searching-and-explaining cycle never ends.
It never ends. It will never end. He just does not know that yet.
“I found it. No I didn’t. I found it. No I didn’t. I found it. No I didn’t.”
For decades now the COG movement has watched many Elijah's come and go, telling one enormous lie after another. Even today in 2022 they continue this foolishness, never learning from the past mistakes of previous Elijahs. These guys all get rather pissy that no one heeds their warnings. How can we? We have spent over 8 decades watching these fools blatantly lie and deceive the brethren. Like the previous Elijahs who are now dead, the remnant that are left in the COG in 10-20 years will see the present-day Elijahs also dead with nothing they predicted coming to pass.
All of these men, including today's batch, have serious mental health problems. Sadly these narcissistic and delusional men have not only done great mental and spiritual harm to their followers, but they may also end up causing great physical harm too. These men all need wellness checks!
If one thought the current issues going on in the Church of God International were getting absurd, with Bill Watson turning church services and his writings into a religious NewsMax, wait till you read about the Feast of Tabernacles! Ghastly days, Loma!
Bill Watson and his Medina Ohio CGI are holding their own Feast of Tabernacles just 24 minutes from the St Pete/Tampa Feast site of the CGI.
This year the CGI will be sponsoring for its second year, the Feast of Tabernacles in Clearwater, Florida. The Feast site will be at the "ocean front” Duval Ballroom, located at the Holiday Inn & Suites, Clearwater Beach. The address is, 521 Gulfview Blvd, Clearwater Beach––right on the ocean!!
Bill Watson Feast Co-ordinator
Imagine spending a Feast where you thought you were going to hear sermons about a wonderful world to come where humanity and nature are in communion with God and instead are subjected to 8 days of endless political rants masquerading as sermons. What a nightmare!
I wonder how many will then take the trip down the road to the other CGI Feast site in St Pete/Tampa?
Who in their right mind at CGI HQ thought this was a good idea? The COG movement is already in tatters with different factions holding services in the same cities, and sometimes the same building, and yet here we are with two different factions within the same church organization holding separate Feast sites!
It has just been confirmed today that the Great Tribulation will NOT begin before 2026! Woo Hoo! Party time!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is such a relief to know that the crap will not be hitting the fan, at least for a few more years. So enjoy life, at least all of you unrepentant exCOG members and Laodiceans who aren't part of the one true church.
God's most holy, righteous, and littlest prophet, who was dreamed into being before the foundations of the world began to be created, is back today letting us know that we have a few more years left, BUT, if you are not part of his group you will never know when the tribulation begins! Oh, noes!!!!!!!!
Those who believe and understand what the Bible actually teaches realize that the Great Tribulation cannot begin before 2026.
Jesus gave a variety of signs/events that had to happen prior to the start of the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24. Not only have many not happened, a preceding event in Daniel 9:27 involving the confirmation of a seven-year deal still has not happened. Since it did not happen as of yet, this means that it is not possible for the Great Tribulation to begin for at least 3 1/2 years (half of a biblically-prophetic week).
He next writes this:
People who claim to be COG, like Ronald Weinland and the late James Malm, have repeatedly been in error as to timing as they have looked to their own understanding instead of what the Bible teaches.
This is pretty rich coming from a man who is just as big a liar as these two are/were!
Apparently, the rest of the COG's and the world will not know when the end times hit...despite the widespread death and destruction the church has been wishing upon the world for decades.
The Great Tribulation is coming, but it will not begin in 2022.
That being said, please understand that the COGs associated with the Sardis and Laodicean churches cannot possibly know when the Great Tribulation will begin unless they change.
The Great Bwana even attacks the CG7 Denver as being ignorant of the end times.
CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late (see also The Laodicean Church Era).
CG7 Denver has a more successful ministry than Bob can ever dream of and has touched more lives than he ever will.
Then, in typical COG fashion, he goes on to list 51 points as to why everyone is wrong but him. Why is it that COG ministers feel the need to publish endless numbered lists and bullet points every time they speak? Even with his 51 points, he still can not stay on topic and bounces all over the place. On top of that, it is a list of 51 accusations he accuses other COG groups of not doing. Apparently, no one in the entire COG does anything right except for him.
Bwana Bob still is suffering major butt hurt with Living Church of God and United Church of God spewing him out and rejecting his corrections he lobed at both of them:
Yet, it should be noted that leaders in the Living Church of Godand/or the United Church of God have confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on basically all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above. Those who rely too much on a compromised ministry (Ezekiel 34:7-10) to teach them prophecy that is not truly in accordance with scripture need to realize that according to Jesus’ words in Revelation 2 & 3 and Luke 21, only relatively few Christians will be protected from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world.
The entire COG movement has rejected Bwana Bob and that just frosts his self-righteous butt to no end.
Ever since “The Greatest Story Never Told! (Part 8)” given on December 12, 2015, David C. Pack has made it a doctrine of The Restored Church of God that “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18 and Acts 3:23 is Elijah the Prophet, not Jesus Christ as taught by Herbert W. Armstrong of The Worldwide Church of God. That had been a “bedrock” understanding about Jesus Christ for decades.
Being that David C. Pack had declared himself to be Elijah the Prophet eleven months earlier made this new teaching all the more convenient for him to be greater in importance to God than ever before. He was in the Bible more than he previously thought. It was the beginning of the floodgates opening.
Part 8 @ 06:49 Who is That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18? Two great questions immediately come up. Is he Christ or is he a man? And when is his commission carried out? Is he God or man? And when does he do what he’s supposed to do? Big question. Well, let’s go read in Acts 3, what it says. I’m gonna answer it in a way that is impossible to misunderstand.
And yet, Dave misunderstood it for the remaining 1 hour and 50 minutes. Then has continued to misunderstand for the next 6 years and 8 months…plus.
That logic never made sense to me because Jesus Christ was a man. If Dave was denying He was a man, then he is denying that God came in the flesh. Dave never went “all the way” there, but when he would dip his toes into that pool, I got incredibly uncomfortable.
It would have been such a simple question at the time, “Mr. Pack, isn’t Jesus Christ a man?” I guess either no minister at Headquarters asked him or he just “explained it away” without considering fully what he was saying.
This is a clip later in the message where he stated flatly that Elijah was That Prophet. See Audio: Part 8 Elijah That Prophet at end of this article.
This “new doctrine” took a sledgehammer to my spiritual foundation and rocked where I was as a Christian and what The Restored Church of God was doing as the place I had been “giving all” to. His “Ah shucks, it had to be someone” comments did not soften the cut I felt when I first heard this teaching.
This was the sermon that kept me tossing and turning three nights in a row. I had never been so spiritually disturbed. That teaching was wrong and not of God. I knew that.
But on the other hand, I was in God’s one true church. Mr. Pack was the one God chose to lead the Work of God until Jesus Christ returns.
I wondered:
How is it possible that Mr. Pack could be so utterly wrong about something so utterly important? It’s all throughout our literature. It’s in The World to Come broadcasts. Mr. Pack wrote an entire book about it to prove that Gerald Flurry of The Philadelphia Church of God was a false prophet. It is a title only for Jesus Christ. Acts 3 makes it so clear. And yet…
It was a surreal time. I did not hear anyone else make a comment about it. All the ministers were acting like “business as usual.” Co-workers did not seem to be in a haze of shock.
I must be the only one at Headquarters that has a problem with this. Maybe I’m not as close to God as I thought. Maybe I am not of the wise because “the wicked shall not understand.” Maybe I’m a tare. Maybe I don’t have enough faith. Maybe I don’t have God’s Spirit after all. Maybe the devil is tricking me. I better counsel with the ministry.
On that Wednesday morning, I counseled with the Headquarters Pastor at the time who was training another man I liked very much. They spent the next 90 minutes showing me from the Bible how Mr. Pack was correct in his teachings and I was just not looking at it the right way, but that is okay because it is a minister’s job to help guide the brethren.
I was a sheep and the two shepherds were going to help keep me from wandering off.
I came with my Bible, but also with Mr. Pack’s own literature. I only had the heart to read a few “mild” quotes from it. “That book is old understanding,” the minister said. I have to stay current with what God is revealing to His apostle now. It is part of a Christian’s journey. This is why Christianity is hard.
By the end of the session, they got me to see it their way. I hugged both of them, feeling relieved. But the moment I started walking down the hallway, the “wait a minute” questions started to pop in my head. “What about…” and “What about…” all the way to my truck in the parking lot. By the time I opened the door, I was already back to, “No. That’s not right. No way. Jesus Christ is That Prophet.” I could not shake it.
At this point, I was determined to do a deep study in my Bible when I got home. This was against the advice of the minister. He told me to “trust God’s government” and “do not study this any more.”
But, I knew I had to “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.” That was a foundational verse for my entire Christian journey. I spent weeks going through my Bible and the RCG literature (before it was removed from every nook and cranny at Headquarters). I was driven to prove what was true. My intent was not to prove Mr. Pack wrong. But that did become the ultimate conclusion.
After much study, I proved it all the more powerfully that Jesus Christ is That Prophet. I still have those notes. At this point, I just had to “endure” the stab in my gut whenever Mr. Pack would bring it up. I began to listen to him more carefully than in the past and really hear what he is saying and how he is saying it.
If he is so wildly wrong about this teaching, what else is he wrong about?
The seed was planted. I became a David C. Pack skeptic. I never believed he was an apostle anyhow, I just “accepted” everyone said it. But this new way of thinking grew. I was deeply interested in critical thinking, prosecuting the truth, proving all things, and letting the Bible prove the Bible.
Eventually, I resigned from The Restored Church of God in March of 2021. And now I have a website. That has been an odd journey.
Due to all the whoppers Dave laid out in Part 381 this past Sabbath, something huge escaped my attention, which is probably fine since that article was more than long enough already.
There is a new big question on the table: Who is That Prophet now?
Follow the logic:
Jesus Christ was That Prophet Dave Pack becomes Elijah the Prophet That Prophet is actually Elijah the Prophet Dave Pack is then Elijah That Prophet Dave Pack now is NOT Elijah the Prophet Dave Pack cannot be That Prophet Ancient Elijah is still dead and cannot be That Prophet Who is That Prophet now? Dave throws a dart on his open Bible
Based on what was just declared on July 9, David C. Pack HAS to also do a major reversal on who That Prophet is. If Dave is not Elijah the Prophet, then he cannot be That Prophet. Since the ancient Elijah the Prophet is now one of the Two Witnesses who will need to be resurrected before he can start his commission, he cannot be That Prophet either. Can he?
Dave may squint and turn his head sideways at Deuteronomy 18 to make that also be about the Two Witnesses of Revelation, but since the word there is prophet—singular, he will really need to pull off some world-class Biblical Twister to sell that, even to Brad.
Here’s an idea. I have already declared I am a non-prophet/non-psychic, but allow me for a moment to channel Dave’s warped thinking into my brain. THUNK. Do not try this is at home. It is for demonstration purposes only.
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19
If I were Desperate Dave running on the hamster wheel in the third floor Executive Imaginarium with The Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy manning the projector, here is how I would do it:
First, look up each and every word in Strong’s Concordance. Then, remove all the words that those awful, incompetent translators added in to “cloud” what God was really saying. Read all the various other translations. Then examine what is being said and who it is being said to.
Eureka! I have the answer.
God was talking to Moses. God is telling him He is going to resurrect another prophet like him. That other prophet is Elijah. God was telling Moses that he was going to get a partner named Elijah. Since Elijah and Moses will be the Two Witnesses, they are like each other. Plus, Elijah was a great speaker and Moses was not, so logically, Elijah would be “the chief” of the two. Elijah is a type of Aaron going before Pharaoh, so of course what HE says will carry consequences to those who do not heed.
It makes perfect sense that God hid this in His word until the very end, right there in the Old Testament and we never saw it because it wasn’t time yet. No minister I ever talked to or even heard about ever read that verse and said That Prophet of Acts 3 was going to be working with Moses and that the Two Witnesses are right there in Deuteronomy 18. It’s impossible to misunderstand. Once you see it for what it is. This is the most electrifying knowledge I have ever been privileged to teach in my fifty-some-odd years of preaching. And you are the very first who get to hear it. Because you held on, brethren.
Yikes. I just wrote that. That is not a Dave quote, just in case you were wondering.
The long-standing Acts 3 distortion would still be in play regarding Elijah. Forget the fact Peter keeps bringing up Jesus Christ from beginning to the end of that chapter. Peter was just a fisherman, so what did he know? Dave has no problem repeating, “Peter got it wrong” anyhow.
Seriously, if Dave uses this angle to teach it to the church, that would be incredible. And he would owe me sixty bucks.
Could you imagine? God’s Apostle, who is also here “in the spirit and power of Elijah” draws the same conclusion as an antichrist? Except, I got here first. For the record, I found this answer inside 30 second just before noon on Monday, July 11, 2022.
If God reveals to Dave the same information I just found sitting with my laptop on my couch, what would that say about me from a biblical perspective? That is not a question for you or for me. That would be a question for Dave. We’ll jump off that bridge when we get to it.
Or…and I hope this is truly the case, Dave goes the other way and he announces that Jesus Christ really really really is That Prophet of Deuteronomy 18 and Acts 3 after all. They can take all that literature out of the trash bin and put it back onto the shelf.
I would feel very comfortable with that because it would be true.
But if he does this, it will yet be another reversal of a foundational teaching of The Restored Church of God that has been held on to for almost seven years. Talk about shaking the tree again with that one.
He surely won’t spend 1 hour and 57 minutes explaining how he is NOT That Prophet and that Jesus Christ is. I’m curious to see how much energy he actually devotes to dismantling his own erroneous teaching.
If Dave went this route and returned to “Jesus Christ is That Prophet” just as I asserted back in 2015, then I could imagine the counseling that Bradford G. Schleifer would give as I sat in his office.
“Well Marc, you didn’t exercise enough patience. You answered the matter before you heard it. See, God sorted it out just like Mr. Armstrong always used to say. You didn’t trust God’s government, His Church, His ministers, or me. You didn’t believe Mr. Pack was God’s apostle and this is the result. If only you had held on just a little longer…”
In another hairpin reversal of reversals, David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God declares he is NOT “Elijah the Prophet” in The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 381) given in Wadsworth Ohio on July 9, 2022.
Not to spoil the suspense, but here are the notable whoppers from this message:
·When God told Elijah in 1 Kings 19:18/Romans 11:2-5, “Yet have I left seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal” it was not a reference to people in the time of ancient Elijah, but is a future fulfillment by the members of RCG.
·The Two Witnesses are resurrected Moses and Elijah.
·Dave is not “Elijah the Prophet” but more a John the Baptist “Like-Elijah” figure.
·The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16 is actually about the Day of the Lord to be fulfilled in the future.
·Math math math math math points to Tammuz 15 (Wednesday night to Thursday night) for the start of the 1335.
Man o man, where to start…
The beginning of the message was almost equally as disturbing as the content which followed.
@ 00:13 Well, I assured you there we we would not have another message. So much for so much for the Methodist doctrine of assurance. [Audience laughs]…The picture is exactly the same. Couple dramatic changes to our understanding, but the picture stays the same.
Why is that funny?
Mr. Pack told us there was nothing more to learn, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack said Jesus Christ HAD to come last week, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack said we had a “perfect picture” last time, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack says we have reached the end, but…ha ha ha.
Mr. Pack says one thing and does another…ha ha ha.
The fact some in the audience laughed was actually bothersome to me. The man is stringing those people along and they seem to be just so okay with it. That feels a bit Twilight Zone-ish.
Listen to it yourself: see the sound file at the end of this post Open and Laughing at end of this post
Dave then reminded people that Tammuz 15 was still the day it all begins. Make sure to underline that Post-it Note still on your fridge.
Going to Romans 11 and 1 Kings 19, Dave explains how the “seven thousand knees which did not bow to Baal” are actually not in Elijah’s time, but in the future and those are the people in RCG.
Imagine this: Elijah is distraught and wants to die because he is all alone. God gets his attention with a “still, small voice” and tells him, “I have reserved 7000 knees that have not bowed to Baal, buuuuuut that is all about people who will live almost 3000 years from now. So yeah, I know I was supposed to comfort you and let you know you are not alone, but actually Elijah…you are alone.” In effect, God pulls a fast-one on one of His servants.
Then Dave went on to the topic of the Two Witnesses.
Over the past several years, he would “wonder out loud” during a sermon about who these men could be. For a while, he suggested it was Jeff and Kevin. But when they left RCG, then he mused at some point about it being The Coffee Kid and Pepper Boy. More jokingly, but still.
He has finally settled on a resurrected Moses and Elijah. But I would pencil and not ink that. They would have to die again in the streets of Jerusalem to be resurrected again a few days later.
Imagine this: You live in Old Testament times as God’s servant, full of faith knowing that when you are resurrected, you will inherit the Kingdom of God and receive your eternal reward.
Buuuuuut…
Instead, God says, “Hello, My most faithful servants. You died and are now alive again. I need to ask the both of you to work again this weekend which means both of you have to die again. Yeah. If you could just do that, that would be greaaaaaaaaaaat.”
How could you blame the ancient Elijah if he thought that this was strike-two? “First, I am actually alone. Second, I have to die again. Dare I ask what is going to be third?”
So, Dave reduces God to the same bait-and-switch tactics that he employs with new RCG members. Is that reasonable to you?
And now folks, for the main event:
@ 35:51 Well, there would be another person like John [the Baptist] who would come in that spirit and power. John didn’t do a single miracle. There would be another one similar to him who would be Elijah-like in a restorative way. But I am not Elijah the Prophet.I am only in the sense that the ancient John the Baptist came a little ahead of Christ. Would there be a modern man who’d come a little ahead of Christ, carry that name but he has his own name? He’s sorta like Moses, but carries the name of Elijah which is kind of an interesting thing in itself…
Dave must have gotten nostalgic for his childhood. He picked a daisy out of the garden and started plucking petals, “I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not. I’m Elijah. No I’m not.” Eventually he is going to run out of petals and get stuck with one choice at the buzzer.
But hold the phone. Since God is the one who calls men into an office, does Dave really have the authority to unProphet-ize himself? I thought it was God who revealed to Dave that he was Elijah That Prophet in the first place. Does this mean that God pulled the rug out from underneath Dave for the fun of it?
Is God laughing at Dave like Nelson from the Simpsons? “Ha ha. I said you were ‘Elijah in spirit and power’ not ‘Elijah the Prophet.’ Clean the wax out of your ears next time.”
Dave then went through the Bible for some time drawing comparisons to himself and John the Baptist.
@ 1:12:01 And now you know he [John the Baptist] wasn’t Elijah the Prophet. Andmaybe that’s why he did not one miracle. Now, I did a lot of things in the past, more miraculous things in the past. But of recent years because of my role, I don’t. I’ve anointed people that had been healed dramatically. And I’ve had I been the recipient of miracles. So, I think it’s an interesting parallel in that way.
The point being, John the Baptist did not do miracles and Dave does not do them any more. That will be important near the end.
@ 1:14:13 So, the ancient John [the Baptist] was a prophet who proceeded Christ but he knew that he was not actually Elijah. So, I am not Elijah the Prophet. Not now, not ever. Sort of a a type coming “in the spirit and power of Elijah.”Elijah, apparently was a was a pretty good speaker. John the Baptist was a bright and shining light. I hope to some degree in a small way, I’ve done that. 381 sermons, lo these many years. 44,000 minutes just in the series of preaching. So, you know, I don’t know when I became like Elijah the Prophet, but now I know I am not that man and we no longer have to spend five minutes talking about it.I’m the Seventh Messenger. Yes, I am the messenger who is sent “to prepare the way” right in the face of the Father and Son coming together in Malachi 3:1 before “the great and dreadful day of the Lord.”
Technically, Dave is still like-Elijah, just not Elijah the Prophet. Fine, Dave…we’ll play this your way. You are not a false prophet. You are a LIKE-False Prophet. You came “in the spirit and power of a false prophet.” Happy now?
@ 37:21 So, you’ve got something else to look forward to. I believe absolutely thisWednesday night you will meet Moses and Elijah.And then you’ll meet the rest of the prophets in a couple weeks after that. And believe me, I’m not I’m not done proving it.
He has not “proven” anything. It is just the same tired supposition, imagination, delusion, and desperation plucked from the pages of the Bible and out of the air after Dave brushes away the stars and birds floating about his head.
If you had put your money down on the table every time Dave said, “I believe XYZ is going to happen on XYZ,” you would be homeless by now. No car. No food. No clothes.
Near the end, Dave went exhaustively into how this coming Wednesday night (Tammuz 15) starting at sundown on July 13 to sundown July 14 is absolutely the start of the 1335 when the Kingdom of God arrives.
@ 1:16:17 So, let’s reduce everything to math and you’ll walk outta here and you will know based on numbers alone exactly when this is gonna happen.
Yikes. When Dave breaks out the calculator and a calendar, it never ends well for him.
If you are a masochist, you can hear it for yourself in all it’s easy-peezy glory: see audio clip “Part 381 Kingdom Math” at end of this post
Cutting to the chase: Tammuz 15 is the real deal. The millennium (1000 years) starts on Trumpets. You can count a bunch of things with a bunch of dates and you land on this coming Wednesday night at sundown until around dawn on Thursday morning or maybe at any point throughout the day until sundown Thursday night to start the whole shebang. Got it?
For those still interested, we are going to circle back around to the John the Baptist concept and reveal how Dave is not nearly as good at Daving as Brad is at Daving. I think Bradford G. Schleifer would have had a better run at blurring these concepts so the holes in Dave’s theory were not so gaping.
Dave is telling the audience everything they need to hear to prove if he truly is like-Elijah “in spirit and power” or not? The man tells you in his own words. He even uses the Bible to prove which is the answer. It is not only incredible, but plain.
Dave claims he is not a prophet. John the Baptist was a prophet. Dave says so at 1:14:13 quoted above. Jesus Christ agrees with this in Matthew and Luke.
John the Baptist heard the voice of God audibly and was told exactly what to do and when. Dave has admitted throughout the series he has never heard God speak to him.
According to Luke 1:17, John the Baptist came “in spirit and power of Elijah.” That word for power is dunamis. (Strong’s G1411 – From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself).
This has been hammered over and over in The Restored Church of God. We know what dunamis is. Miraculous power. Dave admitted that he no longer does anything “miraculous” at 1:12:01 quoted above. So, what “power” is Dave then referring to? Talking a lot? Insurance salesmen do that. Yelling a lot? Army sergeants do that.
I would love for some minister on the third floor on Monday who runs into Dave in the hallway to ask him flat out, “What power were you referring to?” It will be the last question they ever ask him, but the look on his face would be priceless.
Ask yourself: If Dave once had miraculous power, why would God take it away?
Is there an example somewhere in the Bible that could be a clue as to what happened? Yes. But it does not bode well for Dave. Do an e-Sword search in the Old Testament for a man named Saul.
Why would God remove His gift from His only living apostle on the face of the earth? Ponder that.
So, if Dave does not have dunamis, then what “spirit” do you suppose is moving him deeper into this Tammuz malarkey? Or to previously declare he WAS Elijah the Prophet? Is it the same spirit that caused John the Baptist to witness a dove descend from heaven and rest upon our Savior, Jesus Christ?
How many inside The Restored Church of God do you think caught all this?
How David C. Pack is NOT like John the Baptist:
1) John the Baptist was a prophet, Dave is not.
2) John the Baptist heard God speak to him, Dave has not.
3) John the Baptist was “in the dunamis of Elijah,” Dave is not.
4) John the Baptist kept his dunamis until death, Dave has not.
5) John the Baptist saw spirit, Dave has not.
Please remember that I did not say these things. David C. Pack said these things. The Bible says these things. I am merely reminding you of it.
Tammuz is a one way street. Dave has painted himself into a smaller and tighter corner with each message.
I know the “ministers” in RCG will call me (if they have not already) an antichrist. With this article, they will say I am also committing the unpardonable sin for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I was a tare amongst the wheat. I am beating my fellow servants. I am deceived. My work is of the devil. Woe unto me.
I humbly request they hold back on any judgment regarding this until Friday morning. Let God prove who is a liar and who is true. Amen to the Kingdom of God coming this week. Amen to the plan of God moving forward now. Amen to Jesus Christ returning to His people.
If I am wrong, I will be cast into a lake of fire. I accept that.
