Dave Pack takes credit for turning HWA against Stan Rader

Is there anyting in the COG that Dave has not stuck his nose into and taken credit for?

Three months later, in mid-April 1979, Mr. Armstrong’s chief legal counsel was interviewed on the popular CBS television news program 60 Minutes.

At a point, after a heated argument with reporter Mike Wallace, the man stormed off the set, warning before the camera, “You’re on my list!”

Mr. Pack was far from the only minister who was terribly disturbed by what had happened on national television. A month later, at a regional youth track meet in Hershey, Pennsylvania, three field pastors vented their frustrations to him.

“If Mr. Armstrong doesn’t do something about this man, the Church will be destroyed,” they said with one voice. “You’ve got to say something.” Of course, many other ministers felt the same, but these three actually urged Mr. Pack to speak up to Mr. Armstrong. Their request was formal.

Convinced he had a duty to apprise Mr. Armstrong of the damage being done by the Church’s attorney, Mr. Pack called the Pastor General the next day.

“Mr. Armstrong, we have a major problem brewing with [name],” he warned.

Mr. Armstrong became angry. (He had been satisfied with the interview, not knowing he had been given an edited version of the program! He had no idea that all of America had witnessed a representative of the Church engage in an emotional outburst and seem to threaten a prominent journalist.)

“Dave, you just have to understand that he has a temper,” Mr. Armstrong said, “and when he shows it to me or raises his voice to me, he always regrets it and apologizes. You need to extend him the milk of human kindness.”

Unsure of how to get his point across, and very much now on the “hot seat,” Mr. Pack simply stated, “Mr. Armstrong, I just don’t understand how he is allowed to scream at you. People know that he does this. I would never dream of even talking back, let alone raising my voice at Christ’s apostle.”

His words stopped Mr. Armstrong in his tracks.

“You’re right!” the Pastor General said with some volume as he made an instant 180-degree turn in thinking. “If he ever screams at me again, it will be the last time!”

Mr. Armstrong’s perspective was the same as most others. He had grown accustomed to things a certain way. However, when someone presented him with the reality of the situation, he realized, “That’s right…That can’t happen. What is being tolerated here?”

Gerald Weston: Says Mothers with Children Out of Wedlock Are A Terrible Embarrassment To The Congregation.

A comment from another thread:

"I understand, everybody has a double-life to some degree."

What Weston seems not to understand is that LCG (and Armstrongism in general) encourages people to maintain a double-life, and to be more and more two-faced as they continue in the church, unlike many other churches that allow people to feel that they don't need to put up a false front of near-perfection.  

There are of course a few brethren who for a while try not to live a double-life, and who try to admit their weaknesses honestly and sincerely as they repent and strive to be better Christians. Before too long, these people either run away from the falseness of ACOG spirituality or learn the two-faced ACOG standard and become twice the sons of hell they were before they joined their ACOG (Matthew 23:15).

In his sermon today, Weston made it clear that he is going to set a standard, and if you can't fake it you won't be allowed to make it in LCG. Does he not realize that this won't actually make the brethren holier? It will just make them more fake. Weston would rather have a church filled with people who know how to fake a certain level of Godliness, rather than a church filled with imperfect people striving honestly to reach a greater level of Godliness.  

Perhaps the saddest part of the sermon came when Weston attacked innocent children and their mothers. He mentioned that when he was pastoring one large WCG congregation, there were perhaps 14 young women who had children out of wedlock and brought their babies to services. To Weston, this was a sign of scandal and liberalism. Other pastors might rejoice that a woman had learned a hard lesson, and that instead of aborting the baby or abandoning her responsibility she had repented of her damaging sin and was now seeking to live a better life. But that's not what Weston said today. Instead of praising the women for their repentance and desire to grow in difficult circumstances, he described them as if they were a terrible embarrassment to the congregation.

How will repentant sinners thrive in LCG, if they know deep down that Weston and their pastor see them as embarrassments and failures because of prior sin, instead of seeing them as God's children striving to atone for their earlier mistakes?  

All in all, it was a sickening sermon that I would have expected from a man like Pack. I was one of the many who thought LCG would become more balanced after Meredith's death. I was wrong.

Dave Pack Takes Control of Degenerate Liberal Youth In The Church

Even the youth of the church could not escape Dave's self-righteous judgement!

As was the case with brethren in the Church during the 1970s, the youth programs in Buffalo and surrounding areas had become liberal, and mirrored the permissive leanings of the Church and a deteriorating society. Larger youth activities in the Church degenerated into breeding grounds for bad attitudes and unacceptable behavior before Mr. Armstrong directed radical changes be made. Sports programs had become overly competitive, with spectators sometimes hurling insults at opposing players and stomping wildly on the bleachers, as would happen at a worldly high school game.

As doctrines were watered-down, youth constantly pushed the limits of tolerable behavior. Without guidance and clear standards, their behavior, as well as their appearance, soon became almost indistinguishable from teenagers in the world.

In many congregations, teens and preteens ran wild, giving themselves over to inappropriate music, underage drinking—even drug abuse and fornication. The situation became so appalling that Mr. Armstrong temporarily shut down the Church’s regional youth activities and national tournaments, as he prepared to doctrinally straighten out the Church.

From 1978 forward, the Pastor General worked to re-insert God’s Way back into youth programs, starting with new leadership at Ambassador College, and reorganization at the S.E.P. summer camps. Next was the introduction of a groundbreaking youth magazine (called Youth 81, 82, 83, etc.), which taught teens how to strive against the pulls of the world and attain their full potential. It also provided instructions to the ministry on how and what to teach young people.

Along with removing teens who clearly did not belong in the Church, the introduction of new activities with the right focus caused young people to once again bear the fruit of living God’s Way.

“I came to understand that the spiritual health of the youth was directly connected to the focus of the local minister. Congregations in which the minister looked to God—and Mr. Armstrong’s direction and example—for guidance brought huge rewards. Conversely, ministers who allowed permissive attitudes to permeate their local youth programs reaped what they had sown—and previously (before Mr. Armstrong’s course correction) so had the entire Church.

“The Church as a whole was not performing its God-given duty to its young people during these years. Teenagers are incredibly perceptive. They immediately notice hypocrisy when leaders allow certain behaviors in one congregation, but not another.”

The field pastor stressed holding to God’s standards and insisted that parents train their children properly. This was a big reason some viewed him as too strict.

Much to the chagrin of some youth, Bible studies were also held for parents on the trends of the day regarding rock music, dress, alcohol and drugs. These candid discussions gave parents the assistance they needed to teach their children properly.

Mr. Pack remembered countless times when he nicely, but firmly, told teenagers, “I do not care what’s going on with your friends outside the Church or who is allowed to attend, and what is permitted, in other congregations. You are here. If you want to hold to right standards of conduct, wonderful. If not, you will be happier elsewhere, meaning outside the Church.”

While some may think this harsh, obeying God is always a choice—for adults and teens.

Along with explaining to teenagers what they were not to do, it was always a priority to show them the right way to live. Campouts, canoe trips, talent shows, sports programs, special group trips and other activities were held—all with the correct focus. A tremendous amount of effort was exerted in reviving the youth programs to God’s standards.

Dave Pack: I became the "field" advisor to HWA while he was in Tuscon

Everyone in Pasadena has said that this is absolutely not true when Dave started spouting this years ago.  HWA never considered Dave an advisor of any sort.  Dave as considered more of a tattle-tale than anything else.  In those conversations he did have with HWA his glorified himself as HWA's true supporter.  This is just one more of Dave's tall tales.

It was during this trying time for the Church that Mr. Pack’s relationship with the Pastor General grew much stronger. On many occasions in the summer of 1978, the men spoke on the phone, sometimes at length, and discussed an array of subjects.

These long, detailed discussions laid the groundwork for more extensive talks about liberal doctrine and other wrong ideas permeating the thinking of certain senior men in Church Administration and many in the field ministry. The subject of these talks slowly rolled into reorganizing the Work “post-Garner Ted” and the Church’s overall condition from a field minister’s perspective.

That Mr. Pack was a field pastor was helpful to Mr. Armstrong. At the time, the Pastor General was surrounded by administrators at Headquarters who seemed to have their own agendas, while he was at the same time somewhat isolated living in Tucson. (A recent heart attack, plus a second marriage, had temporarily taken Mr. Armstrong to Tucson to live.) 

It was through these phone conversations that Mr. Pack slowly began to realize his relationship with Mr. Armstrong had changed. He had become an advisor from the field perspective.

“Many will dispute this, and our enemies will call this characterization false, but this is what our relationship became. Only many years later did I understand why God engineered circumstances as He did. But this description is the truth of the relationship—and many knew it.”

Mr. Armstrong expressed that he appreciated frankness and honesty, even when it meant respectfully disagreeing. It stood in stark contrast to the usually sugarcoated, self-serving political anglings he often received from those at Pasadena. These were people who either shielded him or told him what they thought he wanted to hear (generally, because they had their own agendas).

United Church of God Elder Stephen Allwine: Web Of Lies: The Murder of Amy Allwine Documentary

"This documentary follows how detectives, forensic specialists, and prosecutors untangled a web of lies surrounding the murder of Amy Allwine, and the secrets her husband had kept from everyone."

Fox 9 News

Dave Pack: "You just stood up and vomited on 5,000 people!”

Poor Dave.  I can just see his beet-red face and veins popping as he yells at this senior minister for "vomiting on 5,000 members."  Then to compound the problem, not one single minister there would back him up!

But at the 1978 Feast, the situation boiled over. This same senior minister stood before 5,000 brethren and preached that there will be 100 different resurrections—that Christ was returning on Pentecost—that the apostle Paul was currently in heaven getting special training—and many other related utterly unbiblical ideas.

This event taught the Rochester-Syracuse pastor one of the most integral lessons of his entire ministry: thousands could listen to plain heretical nonsense spewed from the pulpit and not seem to hear ANY of it. And those who perhaps did, tolerated what they heard.

The time for tact was over.

Mr. Pack’s brother was an associate pastor at the Brooklyn, Queens, New York congregation and was also assigned to the Saratoga Springs Feast site. He spoke to his brother about this outrageous sermon. He and his wife completely agreed with the above assessment. Here are his comments:

“I approached my brother with what my wife and I had noticed in the sermon. It was appalling, and it became obvious that no one else in the arena seemed to agree.”

It was clear that immediate action needed to be taken!

Mr. Pack confronted the man in the choir room with the Syracuse local church elder at his side, and said, “That sermon was wrong! You just stood up and vomited on 5,000 people!”

“None of the other ministers are coming forward,” the minister replied.

“I don’t care what the other ministers do or don’t do! What you are teaching is false—and ludicrous!—and it cannot be left unaddressed.”

The minister slammed his fist on the piano.

“I’m the senior pastor here!” he yelled. “This conversation is over! We’re done talking!” The choir was waiting outside, and everyone heard the volume with which the man spoke.

Undaunted, Mr. Pack shot back with equal volume, “I won’t be intimidated. It is you who are in trouble—serious trouble—and right now!”

Yet, not one other pastor or additional elder—of the scores present in the audience—seemed to care or had the courage to say anything, assuming they were even listening. This tragic reality became a painful lesson for Mr. Pack, as most ministers’ lack of love for, or even understanding of, the truth would be a repeating disappointment for the next 15 years. That so many could tolerate so much from the pulpit without a word of objection left an impression on the 29-year-old pastor that would never be forgotten.

Following government and the Church’s organizational structure, he immediately called his area coordinator, who was attending the Feast in South Africa. Mr. Pack explained the details of what had happened—and that not one other minister spoke up (from a group of men primarily under the area coordinator’s northeastern administration).

His supervisor sought to smooth the situation. Though the minister was fired after the Feast, again, other than his brother and the elder with him, not one other minister was willing to say a single word of what was heard.

Only the sermon tape would tell the tale as the final witness of what had happened.

That tape and Dave running to tattle-tale.

How Turkey Bacon Was Created

Dave Pack: It was disgusting that GTA wore an open-necked shirt and exposed this chest!

By Costaricky - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, 

Tattle-tale Dave was disgusted by the casual dress of Ted and crew.  Oh, the humanity!

After services, Mr. Pack, the area coordinator and Mr. Gary Antion (from Toronto), and their wives, conversed with Ted at a private dinner before the sing-a-long. Over the course of over four hours, the evangelist continually hurled criticisms at the Church, primarily centering on many against his father.

Later, brethren from the surrounding regions assembled at the Rochester convention center for one of Ted Armstrong’s famous (now infamous) “sing-a-long” performances. The show included his assistant and other men close to him.

It was apparent the younger Armstrong saw himself as a folk singer and sought to portray himself as an entertainer rather than a minister of God seeking to edify and uplift the brethren with exciting news of the Work. He and his entourage sat on stage, sporting open-necked shirts, gold chains and medallions, and exposed chests. They resembled worldly pop stars—not ministers and leaders in the Church of God!

The band members had also come to services dressed in the same worldly fashion. Mr. Pack asked Ted about the inappropriate dress of those traveling with him: “Why is your group dressed as it is?”

Garner Ted basically dismissed the question with, “Well, yes, that’s the way they dress.” He was completely unconcerned about it.

Before heading to the airport the next day, Mr. Pack called Garner Ted and asked to ride with him. He had decided to tell Ted that his father was expecting a report, and that he would have to mention certain things.

Was God the Father Active at Creation and in the World Today?

For those religiously inclined...

James Malm, the Chief Pharisee and official bastardizer of the law, is having a meltdown over United Church of God's recent stance on whether or not God the Father was active in the world at creation and in this present age.

An acolyte wrote:

Mr. COG Member

19/05/2018 at 08:41 

The conclusion reached by the Doctrine Committee was that God the Father and the Word were and are both very active in all of Scripture. The paper did not receive support to move forward.

I couldn’t resist laughing at this. Has the COE decided the Father and Son are not very active in the Old Testament? Talk about puzzling.

The Chief Pharisee responded with this:

This is complete error, since the Father was NEVER active in any part of scripture beyond using the Holy Spirit to call some to him (John 6:44) through Christ. The Father will be present at the wedding feast in heaven but since creation he has NEVER been present on the earth; until he will later come with the New Jerusalem.

Sin has separated humanity from the Father and as soon as sin entered in the Father left. The Father is not and has never yet been active on the earth since original creation; Jesus Christ taking care of the things on the earth as the mediator between mankind and the Father.

Yes, the Father was mentioned in scripture but he was never active on the earth. John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
James

Dave Pack: No COG Pastor Ever Has Been Able To Plan A COG Picnic Better Than Me!

Everything that Dave does is superfantabulous!  There has never been a minister in the history of the entire COG to have planned better church picnics than he did.

In previous years, only about one third of the brethren, and sometimes only 15 or 20 percent, typically attended the annual summer picnic. Mr. Pack felt it his duty to make picnics so much fun, with so much going on, that there would be higher attendances there than at services. This was because he wanted members to be able to include their non-member relatives in one positive, happy Church function a year that cast the members in a good light in the eyes of their relatives.

But, to enhance the occasion, the decision was made to have one picnic for both congregations midway between the two cities, while recognizing that this extra driving could actually reduce attendance—if the picnics were not made to be very special. Also, new people were more likely to come to functions. Big, exciting, fun announcements were prepared for weeks in advance, building up anticipation and letting out new details each week.

Even with the extra drive, higher attendance than services the day before would still occur because some brethren did still bring their non-member relatives. This level of participation was almost unheard of in other congregations. It became a reason that brethren from surrounding areas sometimes came, something that did not generally please their pastor—they were looking for a better picnic or social elsewhere.

The congregation enjoyed the fruits of these improvements. And some who had stopped attending returned to Church.

“After we transferred from an area it seemed that invariably the specialness of these occasions was quickly lost under the hand of succeeding pastors who did not seem to care. Sadly, I would hear that attendance was beginning to drop back as before. But never all the way.

“Looking back, I have to admit that subsequent pastors were sometimes in an awkward position trying to ‘match’ what had gone before. But my job was to bring an event that mirrored the joy of Acts 2:42-46.

“I think this is still the picture at The Restored Church of God Headquarters picnics today.”

Dave Pack: Demons Sets Me Up By Sending A Crazy Lady to Me Who Later Commits Suicide

Dave says, It is not my fault she shot herself:

Troubled Woman

Looking back, before his Rochester assignment, several ministers at the 1976 Feast of Tabernacles in Mount Pocono summoned Mr. Pack to the festival security office.

“We have a woman here who seems like she may be bothered by a spirit,” they told him. “What do you think?”

Not knowing what to do, they had sent for the young minister because of his training and experience in dealing with brethren troubled by demons. (Recall how in Newburgh, a month before the Feast, there occurred what became an instance in which Mr. Pack had cast seven demons from a man, right in his home.)

Mr. Pack looked at the woman in the security office, who was acting extremely strange. One of the pastors dismissed her bizarre behavior as “pure schizophrenia” and “a psychological problem.”

“No!” Mr. Pack said. “This woman has at least one spirit, and probably two.”

Though they disagreed on the exact nature of her problem, the ministers did agree she had no place at God’s Feast. They immediately sent her home.

Mr. Pack did not give the incident another thought, as the woman was not in the congregations he then served and the problem had been removed from the Feast.

However, on his first Sabbath in Rochester, Mr. Pack was surprised to see the same woman sitting in the congregation—the third of the three serious earlier-described problems about which the local church elder had warned him. Apparently, the previous minister had permitted her to attend services some time after the Feast. It was even more surprising when this same elder later conveyed more of the details of her history.

Mr. Pack attempted to gather all the facts and not rush to judgment, so he visited her at her home. He needed to decide whether he should inform her that she could not attend Sabbath services.

The decision was almost immediately made for him. While he was conducting the local congregation’s first Women’s Club at a nearby Holiday Inn, the still-troubled woman was there, and, during the proceedings, leapt from her chair, threw her arms in the air, and shrieked as she fell backward on the women behind her.

Surrounded by several dozen terrified ladies, Mr. Pack sternly told the woman (actually, the spirit troubling her), “In the name of Jesus Christ, hold still and be quiet.”

She immediately dropped to the floor, trembling.

“Don’t say one word,” Mr. Pack commanded. “I know who and what you are.” Thirty shaken women observed.

An ambulance was called to take her away. When the paramedics arrived, they came to recognize that the woman only responded to Mr. Pack. After they loaded her into the ambulance, they asked him if he would be willing to ride with her to the hospital. It was an unusual request, but he complied, ordering the woman not to utter another word en route, and she did not.

The scene reflected badly upon the Worldwide Church of God in the eyes of the local public. This became another reason in Mr. Pack’s thinking that people who do not belong in God’s Church must not, if possible, be permitted to ever get there in the first place.

Mr. Pack could under no circumstances permit the woman to attend any longer. Since she was vexed by demons, it would have been imprudent to continue working with her while still in the Church. She had been bothered for many years, been divisive, and had shown no signs of progress. Therefore, in accordance with Church doctrine, Mr. Pack did not permit her to attend Sabbath services, and distanced the Church and himself from her.

A year passed with no contact—yet she somehow had the idea that Mr. Pack planned to let her attend services again! That summer, after he returned from vacation, she unexpectedly telephoned him.

“Mr. Pack, while you were gone I was told by one of my friends that I would be allowed to come back to services now that you’re back from vacation.”

Naturally, the minister was confused as to what could have led her to think this. He sought to diffuse the situation.

“I’m sorry,” Mr. Pack said. “You cannot attend. Just keep studying and working with the Bible Correspondence Course at home.”

About two hours later, he received a call from one of the woman’s daughters.

“I’m curious, Mr. Pack,” she said calmly. “What did you say to my mother when she called you?”

The young pastor explained he had not spoken to the woman in almost a year, but had quietly told her she could not return to services, and asked, “Why are you calling?”

The daughter said, “Well, after hanging up the phone with you, Mr. Pack, my mother walked straight out into the backyard and shot herself in the head.”

Staggered by the news, Mr. Pack saw underscored a valuable lesson, again, never to be forgotten: Problems must be diffused immediately. What might have occurred if he had allowed this terribly disturbed woman to fellowship with the local congregation?

Sadly, some today blame Mr. Pack for the troubled woman’s death. Their “reason”? Because he did not show enough “love.”

“I knew that a demon had been involved and had tried to set me up with such a call from her out of the blue. I also remember being very angry that the previous pastor had put me in this position.

“Over the years, my enemies have done much to promote this story and two other accounts, one of which has already been described. Yet I had not the slightest involvement in any of these tragic occasions.

“The stories propagated about my involvement are pure fiction, and all who were involved in each case understood this. Had I been responsible in even a small way for such tragedies, one could have supposed that my ministry would not have continued, or there would have been some kind of consequences. These stories from the past are included here since they are a part of my life’s story, and occupy a place in the realm of ‘urban legend.’

“As I have learned so many times, those in God’s ministry must always be prepared to ‘play the hand that you are dealt’ by the previous pastor, men who were sometimes no more converted than a stump. I did the best I could at playing cards that no incoming minister should receive. But there would be one more similar occasion, and many additional times when ‘inherited’ problems would be laid at my feet. I had been trained from early on that when these things happen you just lean harder into the wind. And I did.”

Dave Pack: Liberalism Invited Demons Into The Church..And Cat Ladies

Dave seems to find demons every place he goes.

The “Cat Lady”

Liberalized doctrine and allowing God’s standards to slide had invited strange and unbalanced people into the Church. Over time, Mr. Pack learned that people with demon problems seek to enter God’s Church when it is in a liberalized, weakened spiritual condition.

During these years, before the advent of the Internet and email, ministers primarily visited members or potential members in their homes. (Of course, this is still ideal.) The vast majority of the many thousands of visits Mr. and Mrs. Pack conducted were positive, even wonderful, experiences. Visiting either members or those desiring baptism and membership was one of the most rewarding aspects of being in the ministry. Few things can compare to seeing firsthand a person’s joy and excitement in learning the truth of God’s Word.

However, some visits could only be described as unique.

In one instance, Mr. and Mrs. Pack visited a woman who had been attending for some years. When they arrived at her house, for some reason she did not want them to come inside. The Packs stood in the driveway, in the hot July sun, speaking with the woman for quite some time.

Mr. Pack finally said, “Could we go inside and talk?”

After stalling, she reluctantly agreed, and they began to enter her home through the screened in front porch, with Mrs. Pack leading the way. But as they approached the front door, she suddenly stopped dead in her tracks.

“Come on, Shirley,” her husband urged, “go inside.”

He could not yet see what had caught her attention. Peering into a darkened room, she saw more than 60 cats—their excrement everywhere, emitting an unimaginable stench! Mr. Pack looked over her shoulder and stopped his gentle pushing from behind!

As the Packs conducted the short remainder of the visit outside, it became further evident that the “Cat Lady” exhibited bizarre behavior and was of a different spirit. Yet, the previous pastor had permitted her into the Church, and to remain there—another example of what happens when an “open door” policy is in effect.

Leaving, Mr. Pack thought about how one of the signs a person is possessed or influenced by a demon is that he lives in absolutely filthy conditions—and by choice. This was one of the first times he had seen this. Christ talked about unclean spirits for more than one reason. God’s Spirit is one of a “sound mind” (II Tim. 1:7).

The “cat lady” never returned to Church.

Dave Pack: Cincinnati..where I leaned to have the "heart of a shepherd"

Yeah right...

Mr. Pack was 27 at the time he would leave Cincinnati. Certain things had “jelled” in his mind by this time. Training under Mr. Reyer had been the catalyst.

“As I continued to visit in an environment where people could be somewhat more difficult to work with, I had to learn to ease in and out of subjects, to set the table, relax and draw out people in a soft manner, if I were to have any chance of helping them. I learned more not just to crash through the door of a subject, but rather to gently play on the edge of it, until a mind was more ready to receive help.

“Every effective minister must develop the ‘heart of a shepherd.’ Without it, all is lost. A man has no chance to effectively work with and lead people if he does not think like a loving shepherd working with sheep, and being willing to lay down his life for them (John 10:1-15). This means he must be willing to battle wolves to the death because he loves God’s people (John 21:15-17).

“He must understand that he is there to serve them and not be served, as so many men never seemed to learn. Mrs. Pack and I would actually be criticized on a few occasions because, as it was sometimes put, ‘You won’t let people do things for you.’ Of course, there were a certain very few exceptions to this, but overall it was true. We would not permit people to pick up our raw milk at the farm, or natural honey, or do our errands and shopping for us. God’s people are generally very giving, and it would have been easy to take advantage of them. They have been taught to give and to serve, and many ministers saw this and treated them as a resource for their own use.

“In the end, when you do this, you certainly get much more than you give. And believe me, I saw this happen time and again through the years. We never left an assignment where we did not feel we got more than we gave, and usually by far. In that sense, ministers reap what they sow. We surely did reap in this way.

“When it came to really understanding the heart of a shepherd, Cincinnati was truly the turning point. I learned much there of ‘being all things to all people to gain the more.’”

Dave Pack: Jim Reyer Made Me Who I Am Today

Now we know why Dave is so screwed up.  Jim Reyer has to be one of the more despised ministers the church had.  His name consistently pops up when members talk about abusive COG ministers. After Reyer wrecked havoc in Ohio he was eventually brought to Pasadena where he continued his hardcore antics. One memorable comment he made to an Imperial student who had a baby out of wedlock, was that the baby was going to be thrown into the lake of fire due to her sin.

“Jim Reyer understood human nature like few I have known. He also had extraordinary discernment of people’s attitudes. He used to talk about ‘hitting into human nature’ through sermons and Church Bible studies. This man understood that certain kinds of more direct messages about vanity, jealousy, resentment, envy, pride, and so forth, would bring feelings to the surface in the congregation that might otherwise stay hidden. He felt it was his duty to speak fairly bluntly on a regular basis.

“This is perhaps where Mr. Reyer showed his greatest courage as a minister. He absolutely never feared in sermons to say what the people needed to hear in lieu of what they may have wanted to hear. In this regard, he had people who would die for him—and others who wanted him to die.

“Mr. Armstrong very much understood you have to speak to human nature—and when you do, plenty of it can surface in the congregation. It did periodically come out in Cincinnati, that’s for sure. The pastor on the other side of town could not have been more opposite in style—nothing but encouraging messages, ever—hence some of the tension I mentioned. I tried to learn what I could about how to avoid meddling in strife that belonged to others.

“Mr. Reyer was very similar to my father. I am convinced that God sent me to work under him so that I would receive what would almost be a ‘second witness’ to my father’s example. Just 26 when I arrived, with Mr. Reyer in his early 40s, he confirmed in my training and understanding how leadership is always willing to take a stand in difficult moments, no matter the personal price one might have to pay.”