I Told Rod Meredith to NOT Write His Autobiography, but He Refused to Listen to Me, as Usual!

The other day when the COG News and this blog posted about Rod Meredith announcing that he has published the first three chapters of his new autobiography, it sent those that know his legacy into instant mocking.  One person however did one of his typical self-aggrandizing meltdown's.   It won't take too much guessing to know that the person pontificating was our very own Almost Arrested, Elisha, Elijah, Joshua, Amos, Joel, Second Witness, Self-appointed Mayan authority and certified False Prophet, lashed out at Rod Meredith for DARING to write his autobiography.

Theil wrote one of his holier-than-thou posts declaring that he personally told Rod Meredith many years to NOT write an autobiography until he corrected doctrinal problems in the Living Church of God.  Daddy Rod refused to listen to his wayward egotistical "son" and started the book anyway.  The non-ordained leader of the falsely called "continuing" Church of God was NOT happy!  How DARE Rod Meredith IGNORE his "words of wisdom!"

Gerald Weston wrote, December 8th: “We have all encouraged Dr. Meredith to write an autobiography to fill in some of the history of the Church, since he played such a major part in the Work of God under Mr. Herbert Armstrong. This week he distributed the first of a planned three-part series, titled ‘The Early Years’. The importance of this project cannot be understated, as he is the last man to fill in many details in the early years of Ambassador College and the Radio Church of God during its existence and afterward ...

Well, that may be the case now that "We have all encouraged Dr. Meredith to write an autobiography," but five years ago when I was an appointed advisor to Dr. Meredith, I discouraged him from writing his autobiography as I explained to him that it was much more important for him to correct errors in doctrine, literature, church history, and prophecy that he and the other Charlotte-based evangelists admitted LCG had. Well, it looks like Dr. Meredith ultimately decided to write his autobiography instead of correcting those errors. It was sending out known errors, breaking promises, and making it clear that he did not need to keep his promises that led me to leave LCG

Why does this little man think that Rod Meredith should be listening to him?  Since he is not ordained, is not a real COG minister or leader, has never been appointed by God for any purpose, and  does not have a real theological education, why does he assume anyone wants to listen to him?

Thiel should have realized that people would have a field day with his published comments, but no.  After making a complete fool of himself with his disgusting tirade against Gavin, Thiel must have known he would catch some shade for being such an in considerate fool.  Poor thing, he just CANNOT do anything right any more.

And NO Bob, Gavin did not commit any Unpardonable Sin

"I have prayed for Gavin Rumney over the years and hope he did not commit the unpardonable sin "

Bob Thiel

Mark 3:29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

Matthew 12; 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven

In 26 years of ministry I never thought or met anyone I personally could label as having "committed the unpardonable sin."  All "sin" (and this may have reflected my less judgmental Presbyterian upbringing) was forgivable and pretty understandable. There are things people can't come to believe and there are things , with time, good folk no longer believe.

 No one I knew would think to deliberately speak against Jesus or blaspheme intentionally just for sport or being foolishly filled with carnal bravado.  In my previous life, leaving the church or not going along with this or that decree of the Magisterium might be construed as "unpardonable" since it was God's True Church one was defying, but I even doubted that because all the scandal, flip flops, questionable proof texting, theories, ideas  and goofy personalities didn't seem unpardonable for getting tired of.  This would be true of all organized churches.

Just as I never ever ever met anyone who boldly claim to be in the false church or knowing they were deceived by Satan or some other organization, I never met anyone who thought anything they did was unpardonable if they ever changed their minds on what was real and true.  No one goes to the false church.  NO ONE.  Just ask them.  

I'm sure Dave Pack and his ilk, such as Bob Thiel believe we all have committed unpardonable sin because we notice problems of thought and teaching and problem personalities in the leadership of the splits, splinters and slivers .  I have been accused of that and thrown into the future Lake of Fire for coming to see , for me, the truth of evolution and embracing errancy and origin issues found in the scriptures as well as some historical realities .  I have never lost any sleep over personal concerns for my theological future.  Beliefs are not the same as what is actually true.

So.... Rather than post someone's theological view on this topic , of which there are many,  Just What Do You Mean Unpardonable Sin?  Who do you know committed it?  What did they do to commit it?   Are the Gospels playing control and fear games with the audience?  

Why can't such things, whatever they are just be forgiven and come under the New Testament formula of :

Matthew 11:28-30 “… Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

Ephesians 1:7-10 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Talk to me...

Gavin Rumney RIP. December 16, 2016

Gavin Rumney passed away December 16, 2016 after a diagnosis of cancer.

On November 10, 2016 Gavin sent me the following:

I'm closing AW in a few days. Have had a diagnosis of terminal cancer that leaves me maybe 18 months. Will compose a final post in a day or so. In the unlikely event that I have anything worthwhile to say after that, and you're happy to do so, I'd be keen to submit it as a guest post on your blog, Let me know if that's okay. 

Best regards  

Gavin 

Gavin was a major force in the Church of God related news sites that have been online for a couple decades now.

When the church stated making its changes, Gavin started documenting people reactions to them.  While he any many, many others agreed they were sorely needed, he disagreed about how they were implemented.  That lack of proper pastoral implementation lead to huge disagreements, accusations and splinter groups forming.  Gavin kept pace with all of those changes through various individuals in the different groups.  This included informants high-up in the leadership of the church and individuals who knew the people starting the splinter groups.

Gavin's site kept church leaders on the edge for quite some time as more and more dirt was spilled.  It quickly became apparent that the church was not unified and that the corruption of the old Worldwide Church of God continued on with rampant abuse by its splinter leaders.  Gavin quickly pointed out the major flaws in Bob Thiel and other self-appointed upstarts who have been trying to enslave members with legalism, false prophecies, and manipulation.

Gavin helped thousand over the years to wake up and see how corrupt and un-Christ like the church really was, and still is to this day!  Thousands have freed themselves of that abuse and now are no longer a part of the Armstrongite movement.

Gavin had this on his blog on the day he started it:

The name Ambassador Watch is a nod to Ambassador College, a now defunct institution associated with a now defunct sect, the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) - now morphed into Grace Communion International. My name is Gavin Rumney, I'm a teacher by profession (now largely retired) and currently reside a little south of Auckland - enough to be safely over the border into the Waikato. My extremely modest academic qualification for pretensions as a commentator on the various Churches of God (COGs) is the aforementioned B.Theol with a major in biblical studies (2010). My real-life credentials are a few 'interesting' years as a member in the far off and long ago (1975 through to the early 1980s).

Other than the WCG, my previous ecclesial communities are the Lutheran Church of New Zealand (as a youngster) and a Baptist church. Several of my blog posts have appeared in print in The Journal: News of the Churches of God.

Gavin's work is done and well done it was!




Read back issues of Ambassador Watch here and read OTAGOSH here.

Important New Book Announced: Rod Meredith's Autobiography

The Living Church of God has announced that Rod Meredith has been busy writing his autobiography.  Since he is the most significant man left alive that worked with Herbert Armstrong, it is apparently necessary to share his side of the story.  This will be a book sure to give Dave Pack major butt-hurt since he claims HE is the most important man to train at HWA's feet.

Greetings from Charlotte,

We have all encouraged Dr. Meredith to write an autobiography to fill in some of the history of the Church, since he played such a major part in the Work of God under Mr. Herbert Armstrong. This week he distributed the first of a planned three-part series, titled “The Early Years.” The importance of this project cannot be understated as he is the last man to fill in many details in the early years of Ambassador College and the Radio Church of God during its existence and afterward. We look forward to the completion of this project and sincerely pray that he will have the energy to complete it. Meanwhile, Dr. Winnail was in Baton Rouge last Sabbath where he conducted a Tomorrow’s WorldPresentation and I returned from Canada after recording another two Canadian-version Tomorrow’s World programs. This Sabbath I plan to visit our congregations in Phoenix and Tucson. Please continue to pray for people to respond to the semi-annual letter by committing themselves more fully to God the Father and Jesus Christ His Son through the knowledge they are receiving.—GEW

We have all seen how Herbert Armstrong embellished his own story into such a whitewash that he was beyond human.  His was a story filled with ego, narcissism, control and bitterness.  Will Rod's be the same way?

Will Rod include how he got caught using Third Tithe money to decorate his home on Waverly Drive?

Will he talk about what it was like to be publicly humiliated by HWA and sent off to Hawaii for a year to learn some humility?

Will he talk about how his bitter uncontrollable mouth cost the church hundred's of thousands of dollars when he libeled Leona McNair in front of 700 ministers in Tucson?

Will he talk about how he helped plan Global Church of God with a known child molester while still on WCG's payroll?

Will he talk about how he nearly bankrupted Global Church of God when he did not get his way and took their money and formed Living Church of God, with the same child molester?

Will he talk about how he bragged in a Feast of Tabernacles sermon about spanking his wife, and about how much she "needed it?"

Will he discuss the thousands of marriages ruined because of his heavy handedness due to his enforcement of illogical divorce and remarriage teachings?

Me not You...Us not them

Exclusivism and just how to perpetuate that specialness is a hallmark mindset and goal of most religious faiths. It is a mind virus that seems to be rearing it's rather ugly head again. One way, one belief, easily defined rights and wrongs, one law, and one common acceptable mind virus will provide all the comfort and security we need. The Bible in our culture is often misread and misapplied to perpetuate more harm than good. It's what exclusivists do best.

Most religions, denominations and even rival churches of the same denomination but with slightly different practices, teach that they are the one true path to salvation and all others will simply suffer the fates. I live and work close to Bob Jones University, where being consigned to hell for non compliance is an art form. Around here it is not uncommon to read "Love Jesus, or burn forever in Hell." Try that one one on your kids. "Love Daddy, or I will kill you." That's child abuse isn't it??? Ask a Bob Jones student what they believe and it usually comes out in some form of "whatever they say."

When intollerant fundamentalists. who are infected with exlusivism speak, the goal is to spread the virus and get others to agree and support it's propagation. Once you are in, everyone not in, is out, and the virus then endeavors to become immune from attack through bluster, fear, shame and guilt. I recently tried to read a copy of the Philadelphia Trumpet, but gave up and opted for chewing ground glass which felt ever so much more pleasant.

Tell one of God's chosen they are biblically ignorant and watch what happens. So many sincerely misguided Christians and ministers are piously convicted, to be sure, but marginally informed in their education and perspectives.

While preaching exclusivism, they tend to leave out the being ignorant of the bible part. Tell one of God's chosen they are biblically ignorant and watch what happens. Too bad the being more like Jesus and less like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Malachi, Elijah and Paul never really caught on in the many prophecy motivated and obcessed churches and denominations. The "we only" mentality is responsible for much of the division in Christianity today. Christianity seems to thrive on division for multiplication.

So how does exclusivism work? What must happen for it to be successful?

First of all it must do two things. It must ensure it can take up a long term residence in the host (Membership or maybe Meme-bership). A meme is an idea that is passed on from one human generation to another. It's the cultural equivalent of a gene, the basic element of biological inheritance. The term was coined in 1976 by Richard Dawkins in his book The Selfish Gene. Secondly, it must bring about the proper conditions for spreading itself (Evangelism).

This is how it is done:

1. Promise reward for the effort, position, power, inside knowledge and specialness. It's better if the reward is "some day."

2. Threaten punishment for failure to grow, or pay, pray, stay and obey. This can take place almost any time now and/or in the future.

3. Convince them they are the chosen, exclusive and special people. Teach them that all others are false and there is only ONE right way to think or faith to express. Teach them that right way just happens be where they are.

4. Disable their ability to challenge or disbelieve the information given. Lower their immunity. Faith is superior to reason. "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God."

5. Establish a library of true literature and correct answers, for the faithful and discourage reading outside of this one true source, usually provided by the chief virus and his team of pathogens.

Once the parasite has been injected into the host, it will need to propagate itself or the virus will die. Follow these steps.

1. Emotionally, spiritually, psychologically or literally kill all immune persons. If you can't infect them, eliminate them.

2. Those you can't kill... intimidate and discriminate against. In religion, this is being disfellowshipped, demoted, censored or made to bring the watermelon to the picnic. Isolate them because such people, if not held in isolation can pass on immunity and resistance to the virus.

3. Encourage true believers to breed faster than false ones. Evangelism is a great tool for this.

4. Censor incoming information and remember to repeat "the wisdom of man is foolishness with God."..often, along with a lot of other scriptures that promote blind obedience. Most of these will be found in the Epistles of Paul.

5. Be prepared to give out disinformation and spread lies about your rivals. Demonize them. And remember, the bigger the lies, the louder you shout it at church and the more seriously concerned you appear for the welfare of the members, the more successful you will be.

 Exclusivism is really a rather inaccurate and evil mind set. Us vs. them, Me vs. You, Chosen vs. unchosen, Christian vs. Pagan, True vs. False as defined by one government, organization or person over another, is never going to turn out well.  

Dave Pack: "no one in the splinters—none—zero—are Philadelphian"

One of the biggest weapons the Church of God has used as a tool of fear was to claim that someone was NOT a true Christian, NOT a Philadelphian.  It is a weapon still used by various splinter cult leaders of the Churches of God to keep people in line.  Dave Pack claims that any one who is a member of ANY of the COG's is CANNOT be a true Philadelphian.  True Philadlphians are members of the Restored Church of God.

I promise you no one in the splinters—none—zero—are Philadelphian in condition, else they would not be in any of those groups. You can’t be a Philadelphian and be in groups that don’t even believe God has one Church. You’ve rejected His government. Obviously, they haven’t anointed their eyes, or they would have gotten out. They didn’t open the door and let Christ in. They haven’t bought gold, as they were told to do. They have not done God’s Work or come under His government. They paid His tithes to His enemies. There’s no possible way…And I’m going to get into this a little bit later, probably next week. I want to illustrate some other things. Maybe it’ll be the week after…There’s no possible way they’re Philadelphia now. So, to get back to that condition is a problem for the living……

Dave Pack: Unless You Spank Your Child, You Hate Your Child

It’s like the parent who says, “I can’t possibly spank my child. I love them too much.” God says He that spares the rod hates his child. “Oh no, I love my child!” God says, “I’m sorry, you hate your child. If you don’t spank your child, you hate your child…I am God, you are not…because your child will grow up and be an enormous problem to himself and others, if you don’t channel him and discipline him.” Now here is the way to make sure you never spank your children: Spank them. You will not have to do it many times and the child will say, “Two and two is four. If I do that, I’ll get spanked.” You do it a few times consistently…now you might have, you know, can have a little Korah for a son or daughter, and you might have to do it more often. But the tougher nuts to crack, will usually crack pretty soon, and you don’t have to do it very often.

Dave Pack: Parents Should throw the first stone at rebellious children.

If you have a rebellious teenager…violent, curses his parents. Teenager says “I don’t care if this is God’s government. I don’t care.” They are just rebellious and violent. Do you just let them run amuck through society? There is justice and judgment and equity in the earth under God’s government…

Under God’s government in ancient Israel, they would be put to death. They would have to be. Now, they would be warned…but, you know, if you cursed your father and mother, in Deuteronomy it says the parents threw the first stones. They had to say “This, our child, is rebellious. He will not do what we say,” and the judges condemn the child—the parents throw the first stone.

Eric King: Now A Seventh Message Mormon

It has been while since Eric King has been featured here.  King has went from being a Hari Krishna, to Church of God member, to communicating with alien beings, to now witnessing to Mormons.

SOCT History of the Church of the First Born

All Mormon Christians should read this and pay attention. This is a foundational understanding to becoming a Seventh Message Mormon. If you do not understand this basic outline of the Christian Church as it moves through time you will not truly understand the Seventh Message which has come forth to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and indeed to the entire world in this the seventh-time. You must grasp this message and all of what it contains. You must understand just where the church is in prophetic history. May you be brought here by the Holy Spirit and may you be sealed with this final day message.

Sixth Era

The sixth era is that of Philadelphia. This is the time that the true church holds to. This is the only church that Jesus Christ had no problems with. Even though we are in the seventh church era which is that of Laodicea we are trying to keep people in the spiritual state of Philadelphia. When God originally completed His work during the re-creation of our planet on the sixth day all was perfect and thus it was. This sixth church time is extremely important to understand and we urge all SOCT students to study this period of the church. ~

It was during this era which began in the 1930’s that God used the man Herbert W. Armstrong to restore 18 important truths to the church. God informed him to name the church, the Worldwide Church of God. This was indeed a remnant of the true church and we recognize that it was a branch of the true church. Herbert W. Armstrong was not a Mormon and neither he or his congregations accepted the Mormon message but that was not his mission. ~

*Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong also taught in agreement with the prophet Joseph Smith that America was made up and founded by the literal tribes of Israel. ~

He was an apostle who did receive secretly the priesthood but never came public with his authority to teach…instead Heavenly Father used him for specific things regarding doctrinal fulfillments. After his death the Worldwide Church of God was broken apart. This all happened for a reason. Those who experienced Christianity in the Worldwide Church of God were to go through many trials up until they were to accept the Book of Mormon along with many of the truths that God revealed to Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong. This did not occur until October 7^th 2011 under the calling of Mr. Eric William King. ~

So the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been given a message from this remnant known as the Worldwide Church of God and has in fact been given this new name, Worldwide Church of God in our present seventh era. Through this movement Heavenly Father has restored even more truth to His church particularly regarding God’s true Holy Sabbath Day and true Holy Feast Days. The prophet Joseph Smith saw this day coming when it was revealed to him the following in the Doctrines & Covenants: ~

“And also, if there be bounds set to the heavens or to the seas, or to the dry land, or to the sun, moon, or stars…All the times of their revolutions, all the appointed days, months, and years, and all the days of their days, months, and years, and all their glories, laws, and SET TIMES, shall be revealed in the days of the dispensation of the fullness of times…According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.” – DC, 121:30-32 (July 8^th, 1838) ~

Heavenly Father [Divine Intelligence] used the movement started by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong to bring this revelation to fulfillment. These teachings have now been restored to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in our present seventh church era…that of Laodicea. ~

The Seventh Era

Our present church era is the Laodicean era. This era comes in two parts: first the typical-Laodicean era. We are currently experiencing the typical-Laodicean era which started on October 7^th 2011 when two of the secret 12 apostles appeared to Mr. Eric William King and ordained and anointed him to bring forth what we now know to be the Seventh Message. ~

It was through Sir Eric William King that Heavenly Father merged the Worldwide Church of God reformation to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This was prophesied to occur by Joseph Smith himself. It was revealed to Joseph Smith: ~

“God shall give unto you knowledge by his Holy Spirit, yea, by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost, that has not been revealed since the world was until now; Which our forefathers have awaited with anxious expectation to be revealed in the last times, which their minds were pointed to by the angels, as held in reserve for the fullness of their glory; A time to come in which nothing shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods’ they shall be manifest.” – DC, 121:26-28 (July 8^th, 1838) ~

Our present Laodicean time is a time in which “nothing shall be withheld”. Only pride will prevent people from accepting this message. ~

“Yea, wo be unto him that saith: We have received, and we need no more!” – 2 Nephi 28:27

“Wo be unto him that shall say: We have received the word of God, and we need no more of the word of God, for we have enough!” – 2 Nephi 28:29

We have yet to enter the second phase of the Laodicean era. The second phase is called the anti-typical Laodicean period and this will commence at the beginning of the Great Tribulation, the finality of the end times. ~

We hope that this has helped you come to a better understanding of the Seventh Message for the Worldwide Church of God and the Latter-day Saints [LDS Church]. Christians who have accepted this message have become known as Seventh Message Mormons. ~

~May you gain peace profound.

Note: Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong was the first of the Secret Twelve Apostles to be brought to the public.
Continue to Understand

Dave Pack: No One In The Church of God Has Pastored As Many People As I Have

Dave, the ever so humble superfantabulous Church of God minister.  There has never been a pastor as good as he has been nor taken care of more people.  Dave knows this for a fact as he claims to track all of the ministers in all the various splinter groups.

Finally, I would use this example…and you can take it for what it’s worth, and that’s the lesson of my pastorates. As I’ve said many times, I pastored 11,000 people, personally. I don’t know, maybe there are others in the world who have had higher numbers. I don’t know. There’s certainly nobody in Worldwide Church of God in the 90 years since God called Mr. Armstrong who ever got to half that number. That I know for a fact, because I track those things. And I will just say, my experience was that I could pour my heart out in sermons, spend years working with people and get to know them, and I found over and over again most of them weren’t praying, studying, fasting, meditating at all. A few were doing it some; a very few, a lot. That was the story of those 3-by-5 cards…I wrote of in my autobiography.

Dave Pack: Joe Tkach Sr. "HAD NOTHING GOING FOR HIM"

Dave Pack is no fan of Joseph Tkach Sr.  He sound just like Bitter Bob Thiel.

Mr. Armstrong died, and a rather crude, ignorant, poorly spoken man, whose sermons were prepared for him by others—all of them—poorly educated, terrible grammar…arose, and in no time, people sprinted from the truth, in ways they would have fought you to the death, practically, if you had told them six months before Mr. Armstrong died, that in five years or 10 years, you’ll have Christmas trees up. Scores of thousands of them—but they did.

I’ve looked at Mr. Armstrong’s successor…I knew him and talked to him many a time—ignorant, couldn’t write, couldn’t talk without reading. Most people don’t know that man never wrote one co-worker/donor letter in his life—he never wrote anything. I know the man who wrote it. I know the man who wrote everything. He never wrote an article. He never wrote a booklet. He never wrote a letter. He never wrote the notes to his own sermon. He’s the closest thing to having nothing going for him you ever knew.

My best friend was in his close circle. I heard all kinds of stuff, and yet he turned people…like taking candy from a baby. It’s easy to turn people. This guy wasn’t some master debater, some sorcerer, some spiritual David Copperfield who came along. HE HAD NOTHING GOING FOR HIM. No one could figure out why he was the Pastor General, and the answer is God wanted Herbert Armstrong to pick him, as a type of a somebody as bad as that, as weak, and foolish, and biblically ignorant as he was could turn tens of thousands of God’s people on a dime, and have them sprint over a cliff like lemmings on the way to the sea. Will you be instructed by that? The answer is they never changed their hearts. Now that will be a warning to all for the future……

Dave Pack: The Plain Truth About Annie Green Springs Wine

Besides being a theological powerhouse, Dave Pack is also a fine wine connoisseur.  No Rothschild wine for this guy!  Only the best will do....

“Howl, you inhabitants of Maktesh, [a city] for all the merchant people are cut down; all they that bear silver are cut off. [That is, basically, the business owners and the bankers.] And it shall come to pass at that time, that I will search Jerusalem with candles…[to find any person who escaped]…and punish the men that settled on their lees…” (vs. 7-12).

Now here is what “lees” are…Lees is the sediment that appears at the bottom of a vat of mature wine. When you read the word “lees” in the Bible, it is associated with wines. It’s all the sediment. You, probably, have poured some quality wines out, and once in a while, there is a little bit of sediment at the bottom. That’s the lees, the lees of the wine that didn’t quite get filtered out. Annie Green Springs and some of these other cheap wines usually don’t have much lees in there, because they never settled. They, basically, were made at 2 o’clock and served at 3. Anyway…

Dave Pack: Only Ignorant, Unlearned and Unstable People Twist Scriptures, Unlike Me....

Dave Pack just admitted he is "ignorant, unlearned and unstable."  The Church of God has been filled with thousands of men who twist scriptures around to fit their OWN interpretations.  Dave has taken this a step further and created scenarios that no one else has ever come up with.  All lies.

God wants people who tremble at His Word, who don’t wrest it and twist it. I’ll tell you who does that—people who are ignorant, unlearned and unstable. So, brethren, don’t be discouraged if you see someone leave. A tiny number are—and will. The Church is booming. Wonderful things are happening in all directions. But a few people are vetting themselves out, as they have been doing for 2,000 years. Better they’re gone now than we have to watch them leave later. They don’t believe it. All this is laid out before them and they don’t want to be part of it. They don’t believe the Word of God. It’s so absolutely plain, it’s impossible to miss. I wonder how we missed it—except it was not our time.

Dave fails to see this scripture is about himself:

2 Peter 3:16The Message (MSG)

14-16 So, my dear friends, since this is what you have to look forward to, do your very best to be found living at your best, in purity and peace. Interpret our Master’s patient restraint for what it is: salvation. Our good brother Paul, who was given much wisdom in these matters, refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don’t know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it. 

Dave Pack: We Believe in the Big Bang Theory Corrected

 Oops, wrong Big Bang theory....

Dave's god is ready to burn the soil of the earth till it turns into molten mass.  Notice his chortling believers.

Job: Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? You could go to all these verses. The foundation of the earth is forever—it’s settled—but God is going to burn down to that foundation and rebuild, much like He did after the devil’s destruction before Adam and Eve’s time; much as He will do again, to resurface the earth to open His rule from Zion—but this time He’s going to burn right down to the foundation and start over completely. Maybe, because nuclear weapons were used. I don’t know why He’s going to go as far, but He intends, of course, to bring an entire new universe. So fixing the earth is nothing.

To the God Who says that the entire universe, billions of light years across, will be gone with a single BANG, do you think He has a problem burning the earth down through the soil—the elements melting with fervent heat? No. No. Can He do it fairly fast? He can get rid of the universe with a bang. It’ll be the Big Bang theory corrected, [laughter] you see…because we believe in the Big Bang theory, too. It’s when the universe went away, not when it came, [laughter] and we’ll have to explain that. Maybe I’ll weave that into a broadcast someday. But anyway…

And, by the way, isn’t it pretty exciting to serve this God? And isn’t it pretty important to be on the right side of events with this God? So how long will it take God to rebuild the surface of the earth, if He just says, I call to the universe and it—just BANG—stands up together? We already saw with a bang it goes away. No problem. How does all that happen on a day? Well, you just found out a possible oblique application to Joshua’s long day. But I thought I should be specific and just explain to you that the foundations of the earth stay the same. Back to II Peter. Let’s keep reading. There’s more to see. II Peter 3 and verse 11. We finished with verse 10.

“Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking [which means “waiting”] for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved” (II Pet. 3:11-12)… 

Dave Pack: Zombies: "...you’re forgetting the absolute avalanche, tsunami and earthquake, of additional details and knowledge we just got."

10 signs Dave Pack is a zombie

Now let’s have a little fun. Okay. We have to put a few things together. I haven’t gone too long yet. I don’t have a lot more to cover, but I have some, and I want to get a few things in.

……I can tell you, anybody who is upset because they wouldn’t know more details, you’re forgetting the absolute avalanche, tsunami and earthquake, of additional details and knowledge we just got.

Many great questions, I said a few weeks ago, will go away; a few small ones will remain. How God does everything on that day…It’s a challenge! It’s a challenge. Scores of thousands of spirits—of “just men made perfect”—have to come…Bearing all the personality and character development, and all that Mr. Armstrong taught about the spirit of man…have to come with Christ to be mergedback into bodies that, if they stood up ready for the resurrection without those spirits, would leave them basically just zombies. They would be people without “the spirit in man,” and we have a word for that—animals. They would be animals that look like people. But when Christ prepares His bride, He brings those spirits. So, that’s all part of the picture, and maybe it will elicit some questions for some later that we can cover in two weeks during the question and answer final part.

Dave Pack: I teach IMMUTABLE teachings like Peter and if people leave over that then they don't want to serve my god.

Immutable Awesomeness 

Dave says:

He told the people then that they were waiting for it. How could Peter say that if he believed it was after the Millennium? He told them they were waiting for it in their lifetime. Don’t fault Peter. I’ve told you that God’s apostles get things wrong. They can—but it’s usually timing. Mr. Armstrong didn’t say there is no New Heavens and New Earth; there is no New Jerusalem. He got the timing wrong. But I would say, we would all agree that he was a lot closer than Peter, who said it was going to come in the lifetime of that generation, because they thought they lived in the last days…

“Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless [despite the fact there’s all this tremendous heat, and destruction], we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness” (vs. 12-13).

You cannot get around that. I’ve read that since I was 18 years old in college. How is that? But the Church taught otherwise. Brethren, I never left and said, “This can’t be God’s Church! They don’t even know when the New Heavens and the New Earth are.” I didn’t know either. I just looked at that and thought, is there some other day of the Lord, when these will pass away? Now I know. Now I understand. It wasn’t our time. We weren’t supposed to know it.

But you cannot get around these verses. They’re immutable. They’re impossible to get around. That’s why Christ keeps weaving into all of this, My Word stands forever. Don’t despise My Word. It’s purified seven times. Every word of God is pure, and so on and so forth…

“Wherefore, beloved…[a little motivation part here] seeing that you look for…[it means “wait for,” look it up] such things, be diligent that you may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless…[How ready are you at this point on the Sabbath, brethren, to hear that? Boy, oh boy. Be found without spot, blameless.]…And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation…[He wants us to make it. If the scoffers say, “I don’t know where He is. God is slack.” Forget that! God is giving people a chance to make it. He wants everybody to make it!]…even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him has written unto you;

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood…[God wrote certain things in Paul’s epistles, so that people would go there and foul it up, if they are unlearned and unstable]…which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [which means “twist”] as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction” (vs. 14-16).

If people leave over this, they don’t want to serve God…They’re rebellious. They’re going to be out if they don’t repent. Let them go. I don’t know that any will leave. This is a big understanding. I repeat, it’s impossible to miss. It’s immutable. God has written it, as it were, in blood, stone, and steel. You can’t get around it with His Spirit revealing it to us. If they leave—saying “Mr. Armstrong didn’t teach this!”—then they’ve rejected his greatest teaching, which is, “Don’t believe me. Believe your Bible.” Hundreds of times I heard him say it.

Dave Pack: There Will Be Scoffers In The Last Days

Poor Dave.  People are ridiculing him and making fun of what he teaches!

“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming…[Time is going on. Well, we’re in those times now. That’s one of the problems of the last days, by the way, there are scoffers]…for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”

“For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word [the Word of God] are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men” (II Pet. 3:1-7). So there is a day that the heavens and earth are, sort of, being reserved and kept in the store against this day of judgment and destruction—that’s perdition, judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

It is always interesting to see Church of God ministers throw this verse around so freely, especially when most of the things they have preached have failed to happen.   All it takes is one failed prophecy to make everything they preach not credible.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22The Message (MSG)21-22 You may be wondering among yourselves, “How can we tell the difference, whether it was God who spoke or not?” Here’s how: If what the prophet spoke in God’s name doesn’t happen, then obviously God wasn’t behind it; the prophet made it up. Forget about him.

Everything Dave Pack, James Malm and Bob Thiel preaches been made up. Forget about them!