Dave Pack: Prophetic Mad Libs

Prophetic Mad Libs

 

The pressure to perform seems to be off the shoulders of David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God. He announced that the Kingdom of God would arrive at sunset on the first night of The Feast of Tabernacles, Friday, September 29, 2023. He down-shifted gears into maintenance mode during “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 462)” on August 5. The entire sermon reinforced the fantasy that he is somehow right this time around. Finally. Hallelujah.

 

Does the Bible say the words he reads? YES.

 

Do the verses fit together? YES.

 

Could this eventually be God’s plan for mankind? YES.

 

Does any of that mean David C. Pack has a snowball’s chance in hell to finally nail the correct timing for the return of Jesus Christ and the Kingdom of God? Absolutely NOT.

 

Why not? David C. Pack is a proven false prophet, false apostle, false teacher, and documented blaspheming liar. Such men are forever disqualified from being believed by anyone that God is using them to reveal truth to His people.

 

It looks like the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God is going to coast for the next seven weeks, which gives him plenty of opportunity to fulfill his empty threats to do whatever “if we had more time.”

 

Despite the lack of edge-of-yer-seat moments, David C. Pack reliably provides a stream of content to prove how ineffective and inept he is.

 

 

Another Hill To Die On

 

Those new to the website might be interested to hear how obsessed a "Christian minister" is with death. Not only does he frequently launch into Chicken Little Mode, foretelling the imminent fall of the world as we know it, but he is the one expert on the planet who can discern who is headed for the Lake of Fire and when.

 

He does not exclude himself from his love affair with the morose.

 

Part 462 – August 5, 2023

@ 58:40 But one thing we absolutely know, the Kingdom of God comes at the Feast and anlishally and initially lasts one year before the Day of the Lord and every year thereafter is reckoned from the Feast of Tabernacles. I that’s a hill I stand on. It’s the hill I’ll die on. I will never believe anything else.

 

That might shock new members in RCG, but veterans of six months or longer learned not to flinch when David C. Pack swears upon his own life. Having no fear of tempting God, he raises up his mortal coil to heaven and offers it as collateral to affirm how convicted he is.

 

Whether or not those were wise decisions will be revealed by David C. Pack’s arch nemesis—the clock. Nothing on earth thwarts him more than the passage of time.

 

Flashback Part 423 – February 25, 2023

@ 29:41 So, I wanna state one last time, unequivocally, and I’ll just absolutely die on this ground. This is the hill I die on. It is impossible that Abib does not close with the Day of the Lord. Impossible. It’s unbiblical.

 

Flashback Part 447 – June 6, 2023

@ 1:56:16 10-1-7-1000 is immutable. I will die on that hill. That’s the hill I die on.

 

Not satisfied with just his own demise, he ropes the brethren into self-destruction.

 

Flashback Part 448 Part 1 – June 11, 2023

@ 53:34 I don't want any lingering in the back of anybody's mind the idea that the whole thing is ten days or seven days. I wanna clear the deck that that picture is absolutely right. And this is the hill ya die on.

 

David C. Pack speaks with God's authority, holds up his right hand with his left on the Bible, and utters, "I swear to God this is correct." He knows letting his "yes be yes, and no be no" carries no weight due to a decade of "hit-and-miss" "trial-and-error" guessing.

 

Most brethren in The Restored Church of God must not realize that when their Pastor General wagers his own life for the sake of his latest theory, he is taking the Lord's name in vain. David C. Pack breaks the Third Commandment in the presence of the entire church and does it so frequently it is obvious his conscience is not pricked. The hot iron of his desperate arrogance must have singed away the nerve endings of his spiritual heart.

 

How can I possibly think this? He does it so regularly that he and the Headquarters hirelings must be perfectly comfortable with it. Otherwise, he would do it once and repent. Try compartmentalizing that one, Brad.

 

Flashback Part 389 – August 24, 2022

@ 50:46 The three Kingdom picture anchored around Trumpets is immutable. I would die before I would give up that truth. There is no question the Prophetic Kingdom Solar System that we have built is right.

 

Flashback Part 421 – February 18, 2023

@ 59:41 But it cannot change the duration of the month. I will die before I believe otherwise. I believe it as an article of faith as surely as I believe the Millennium.

 

Flashback Part 383 – July 23, 2022

@ 57:40 Subtract 1290 from 1335. What do you get? I'll tell you what you get. You get the length of the First Kingdom of God. And the answer is 45 days. It’s math. It’s inarguable. I’d go to my grave saying there’s no way to change that.

 

David C. Pack's swearing upon his death for theories he no longer believes is well-documented. Those statements expose the man’s character. You can see there is no fear of God before his eyes because he continually proves it. By his fruits, you can know him.

 

 

My Job

 

Part 462 – August 5, 2023

@ 15:54 My job is to absolutely lock down when the Kingdom of God (the Acceptable Year) comes. You could say, “Well, what if it isn’t this year?” Well, then, it isn’t this year. But you will wait till the next year. And that’s my job to explain. Of course, it is this year.

 

David C. Pack strongly disagreed one year ago.

 

Flashback Part 389 – August 24, 2022

@ 53:47 But it’s not my job to say it is this year. My job is to eliminate the Mystery of God and let God pick His year. Speaking personally at the very end, you now know this has to be the end of the Series. No possible way to go on. There’s no time…I couldn’t abide the discomfort of having to stand up and declare the year. It’s not my job. My job is to tell you what’s gonna happen.

 

David C. Pack has a less-than-impressive job résumé. His proven track record for success does not chart well alongside his perceived advancement trajectory. He spins how much the church has advanced in knowledge and understanding while reality is a picture of stagnation and decline.

 

David C. Pack hired himself for a job that did not exist, and nobody requested. He saw an empty imagined position, applied for it himself, hired himself, continually assured himself how fantastic his performance had been, created his own employment security, comforted himself with aspirations of further authoritarian advancement, and delighted at promises of future benefits with the world’s greatest retirement package.

 

The biggest problem with his self-proclaimed commission as the only living apostle and Elijah That Prophet is that his position is not real.

 

Part 462 is not David C. Pack’s best example of drama or outlandishness. It would be a stretch to even call it “interesting” from a prophetic malarkey perspective. What it does have is notable examples of Dave being Dave.

 

“The Greatest Unending Story” Series is not so much an unveiling of mysteries from God just before Jesus Christ returns as it is an unraveling of David C. Pack’s mental state as he publicly descends further toward a psychotic break when two points inevitably intersect.

 

The day David C. Pack’s religiously-fueled malignant narcissism hits the stone wall of reality when he comes to understand God is not the source of his presumptuous preaching, the man's psyche will crack louder than a glacier. We cannot fully comprehend the moment of terror he will face.

 

Until then, we will suffer through the Pastor General of The Restored Church of God telling everyone what his job is or is not based upon whatever neurons are firing through his head in that moment. These flashbacks illustrate that even David C. Pack is unclear as to what his job really is.

 

Flashback Part 440 – May 3, 2023

@ 38:53 I’m not setting dates anymore. I’m just not doing it. It’s not the thing I sh–I’m here to do. My job is to explain what’s gonna happen.

 

Flashback Part 447 – June 6, 2023

@1:58:19 I’m not here to tell you the date. My job is to end the Mystery of God.

 

Flashback Part 437 – April 24. 2023

@ 1:14:12 I’ve come to see my charge as not either to set the day of Christ’s coming or when the Kingdom of God comes soon after or even the year that it would happen. It is to explain the Mystery of God, including the Kingdom to Israel.

 

Flashback Part 407 – November 30, 2022

@ 37:56 My job at the very end…is to end the Mystery of God. And put everything in its right place.

 

Flashback Part 450 Part 1 – June 13, 2023

@ 11:37 I prepared the way. My job was to prepare the way.

 

Flashback Part 454 – June 17, 2023

@ 53:46 I’m gonna destroy it and leave it shattered. Sorta like my job was to make sure you understand who the Sixth King is [Mr. Vladimir Putin]. And you cannot believe it's anybody else. Or I failed. And the burden's on me, and I take that burden.

 

The burden of failure is only felt when wrapped in accountability. No one in The Restored Church of God or anywhere else on this little blue dot holds David C. Pack accountable.

 

Flashback Part 458 – July 8, 2023

@ 1:14:00 So, that is over…My job is done.

 

If you think the idea of David C. Pack inventing his own perpetual employment security was a joke, read this one slowly.

 

Part 451 Part 1 – June 14, 2023

@ 09:33 My job is to lay out the best possible case for things we’re uncertain of. And each time a major wave of understanding will come, I need to go back and revisit it.

 

This quote encapsulates the Unending Series, perfectly illustrating why David C. Pack and The Restored Church of God are doomed to persist despite the burden of a 100% failure rate. Until the center falls apart, the brethren will rebreathe the same air, re-drink the same water, retread the same steps, and retake the same notes.

 

It has been David C. Pack’s job to keep the sermon machine going until the money runs out.

 

 

Prophetic Mad Libs

 

According to Wikipedia, the popular word game Mad Libs was created in 1953 by Leonard Stern and Daniel Price.

 

This was a hit when I was a kid, and I remember fun times with friends when we got our hands on a new book to play around with. Mad Libs is a book series of one-page stories with keywords missing so children could pick them randomly.

 

One friend asks for a noun, verb, or adjective without context, and you give a slipshod answer. Once the blanks were filled, you would read the story aloud together. I distinctly remember some stories too hilarious to get through without crying with laughter. That is what made it fun.

 

What made the word game addictive to a fourth grader was using “dirty words” to corrupt the otherwise innocent stories. Two of my favorite verbs were “humping” and “farting,” while nouns like “boobies” and “wiener” made sure we had plenty of erasers on hand while one kid kept a lookout for inquisitive parents. The last thing in the world you wanted was for your mother to discover a not-so-well-erased Mad Libs page where she could read what you last wrote.

 

David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God unintentionally created his own version of Mad Libs during Part 462. Rather than being funny, it was further sad proof of his deterioration when he begins four different ideas within 48 seconds and does not finish a single one. Four begin, and none end.

 

He interrupts himself, interrupts himself again, then interrupts himself some more, and finally interrupts himself to the point he forgets where he started.

 

The video clip has the bonus “the hill I’ll die on” moment at the start.

Part 462 – August 5, 2023

@ 59:01 I didn’t realize (and a lot of ministers who heard my sermon about fearing God and gathering at the Feast ((‘cause remember, God says over and over, you know, what what the the “the Last Days of Israel are until Shiloh come and to Him shall the people be gathered.” That’s what it says in in uh uh Genesis 49. They’re gonna He’s gonna gather them at the Feast and give’em (((Unbelievable. I wondered, and I wondered would God give people a one-day moed party outta the gate? And the answer’s no. He’s gonna give them eight days. Not even seven. Eight. And they’ll go away and even He. ((((People are people.)))) Still, only one-third will be gold and silver by the Day of the Lord.

 

If you have problems following this transcript, please listen to the clip. He did say this.

 

Dave played Mad Libs with the brethren, leaving it up to the audience to fill in his blanks. By the time Dave got to the gold and silver, he completely forgot what he was saying and moved on. Feel free to place your own noun, verb, or adjective. Because we are now adults, please avoid using boobies and farting as answers.

 

•  I didn’t realize ____________.

•  And a lot of the ministers who heard my sermon about fearing God and gathering at the Feast ____________.

•  They’re gonna He’s gonna gather them at the Feast and give’em ____________.

•  And they’ll go away and even He ____________.

 

We will have to spend the rest of our sorry days wondering what Dave didn't realize. There is no eraser in the world large enough to remove the empty ideas of David C. Pack and undo the damage he has done to people.

 

Here is the RCG-themed Mad Lib that is true but not funny.

 

David C. Pack is a false prophet whom God is not working with. He will never be right about the timing of the return of Jesus Christ. He is surrounded by loyal hirelings who care not for the sheep and ignore their Bibles. Giving him money gives him the power to keep lying to the brethren. Only by members seeing who and what he is can they make wise decisions about what is going on there and take action.

Marc Cebrian

See: Prophetic Mad Libs

Crackpot Prophet Says You Will Die In Worse Fires Than What Happened In Hawaii Unless You Join His Cult

The world has watched the devastating fires in the past few days that happened in Hawaii. Never let a world disaster or weather event go by without a COG leader using it for their own manipulative advantage.

The Great Bwana Bob Muzungu to Africa and 100 Caucasians says that if you do not heed his call and join his church you are doomed to die in more destructive fires to come because you will be a Laodicean who will now know when it is time to flee.

Most Laodiceans believe that they will see the signs and heed the call to flee when it is time. Yet, according to other passages in scripture, such as Revelation 12:17, they will not. 

 

Unlike those in Maui, scripture says that God’s people should NOT wait until the last minute to flee. 

 

If you are not truly supporting the Philadelphian work at this time, do not deceive yourself that you will know when it is time to flee–Jesus only promised that to the Philadelphians in Revelation 3:7-13.

Later he says:

Why have I written that Zephaniah 2:1-3 has to do with Philadelphian Christians? 

 

For they are the only ones who will actually ‘gather together’ as they should. 

 

Why? 

 

Because it is they who will lead the final phase of the work and it is only to the Philadelphians that Jesus promises to protect from the coming hour of trial, also referred to as the Great Tribulation and the Day of the Lord

Then this:

If you are not with the group that is leading the final phase of the workwill you not see that you will not be able to flee if you wait until the last moment? While that may be remotely possible for some, remember that God inspired Zephaniah to admonish God’s people to ‘gather together…before the decree is issued.’ 

 

Most will discount this and many will scoff. Most COGs do not have anyone considered to be a prophet, and in those other than the CCOG who claim to, have prophets that have been proven to be false. But the Bible says that there will be prophets in the last days and that God does communicate with them in dreams.

Never fear though, the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu has them in his prayers!

My prayers are with those affected by the fires. 

 

As far as fires go, the Continuing Church of God has the following video related to weather and fires on our Bible News ProphecyYouTube channel: 

 

Fires and the Wrath of God

Fires have hit many places; Significant wildfires have hit California. Shortly after the start of the Thomas Fire, then California Governor Jerry Brown warned that the US President did not have “the fear of the wrath of God.” Does God use fire to encourage people to change? What are some of the scriptures associated with fire in the Bible? What is sin? What are some of the scriptures associated with the wrath of God in the New Testament? Is Governor Brown being hypocritical here? What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah? Is this relevant now? What did Jesus teach about the time of Sodom and the coming time of troubles? Dr. Thiel addresses these issues and more.

Did You Know That The Church of God Had The Sole Chain of Custody Of The New Testament?

 

One thing that the Armstrongist movement has always been good at is rewriting church history to fit its own narrative of how it is supposed to be. No one in the entire history of Christianity ever understood the history of the church and the Bible until Armstrong and his all-knowing minions hit the scene. Much of that so-called knowledge was a hodgepodge of church history and made-up beliefs that only Armstrongism could produce through the likes of Gerald Waterhouse, Dean Blackwell, Herman Hoeh, Raymond McNair, and a few others that set themselves up as authorities.

Who can forget the complete and utter failure of Herman Hoeh's Compendium of World History? Two columns of supposed history that was so appallingly bad and inaccurate that even Hoeh come out eventually and said it was wrong. Even Hoeh's A TRUE History of the TRUE CHURCH was found to be so full of errors that it was withdrawn and rewritten later as a still appallingly bad work of half fiction.

Never one to learn a lesson from the past, our Great Bwana to Africa and 100 Caucasians, the world's foremost historian and theologian, the highly esteemed and doubly blessed Robert Mzungu Thiel has made another bold statement about church history that is so far off the wall that one can only laugh at his sheer stupidity.

Most do not realize that the Church of God had the ‘chain of custody’ of the New Testament

Just this one sentence of his article is so wrong that it is laughable, especially considering how the churrrent Church of God movement has so little to do with so many books of the New Testament and particularly when it deals with the New Covenant. None is worse about that in COGland than Robert Mzungu Thiel. 

He along with others in COGland believes that their lineage goes all the way back through the apostles to the feet of Jesus and then back to Moses and Abraham. The Great Bwana Bob Mzungu though claims his direct line of apostolic privilege goes directly back to the early apostles. That very same lineage means that he, the end-time prophet of God, the all-knowing one of Bible interpretation and scripture, is the sole possessor of truth established in the New Testament (a book which he incidentally refuses to follow).

As usual, he has to slam the Catholics for usurping his claims, the very people who are his first source to go to about anything.

The Catholic Encyclopedia article on the New Testament asserts the following:

The idea of a complete and clear-cut canon of the New Testament existing from the beginning, that is from Apostolic times, has no foundation in history. (Reid G. Canon of the New Testament. The Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 3., 1908) 

 

The above is only true if one considers that the Vatican has always represented the true Christian church. 

 

If, however, one believes the Bible and considers the fact that the Church of Rome was not dominating all of Christendom in the first and second centuries—which their own scholars recognize (Duffy E. Saints & Sinners: A History of the Popes. Yale University Press, New Haven, CT, 2002, pp.2,6; Sullivan F.A. From Apostles to Bishops: the development of the episcopacy in the early church. Newman Press, Mahwah, NJ, 2001, pp. 13-15,147)— then the idea that the true Christians’ Church knew the books from the beginning does have a foundation. 

 

Yet, contemporary Protestant scholars often take the Roman Catholic view:

The canon of the NT, as commonly received at present, was ratified by the third council of Carthage (A.D. 397.) (Unger M. The New Unger’s Bible Dictionary. Moody Press, 2009, p. 204)

Any real historian of Church history knows for a fact that scriptures were in use from the time of the Apostles until they were canonized. Part of the reason they were canonized is that so many pseudoChristian cults had introduced all kinds of heretical and nonsensical books into 'sacred" use that they needed to be weeded out.

All of this also plays into the Church of God myth that the church and God's word were lost for 1,900 years till Herbert Armstrong rediscovered it in an Oregon library during a 6-month study of the Bible.

He then created his own version of a timeline for scripture used in the church ending of course, with himself. Note: his website has a longer version of this supposed line of custody.

The Great Bwana Mzungu Thiel then concludes:

There are basic two views of the canon. While the last column reflects, to a significant degree, the major scholastic view today, the first column hopefully provides enough scriptural and historical information to show the honest inquirer that, yes, the Church of God had the canon from the beginning.

The entire span of Christianity has had the exact same books in use for over 1,900 years. There is nothing that Armstrongism or the Church of God movement ever preserved that wasn't already preserved and well known. 

The true chain of custody for the Church of God has continued to hold the same books of the canon of scripture to this day.

Because the Greco-Roman churches often included certain books they dropped and did not include others which they added, that would not be considered an unbroken chain of custody.

Although Jesus taught that His church would be a “little flock” (Luke 12:32), most scholars ignore that and accept that the Greco-Romans (and later the Protestants) represent Christianity as a whole. So, they have tended to teach the Greco-Roman view as fact.

Most have overlooked the true chain of custody. Part of the reason is that many aspects of church history have been misunderstood.

Deleted was the comment to write in for his booklet that "proves" the improperly named "continuing" Church of a lesser god are the modern-day descendants of the preservers of the Word. 

COGWA Shenanigans: After Dave Myers Recent Facebook/Henderson Disfellowshipment Debacle He Is Promoted To Ministerial Services Operations Manager

 

From a reader:

The good old boys network at COGWA is still alive and well. Doug Horchak, who was Ministerial Services Operation Manager, has been given the international position that Leon Walker had, leaving his position open. Yesterday, the announcement was made that all the "administration" in Texas agreed the Dave Myers was the perfect replacement. I guess Dave just got an "atta boy" endorsement for calling about Aaron and Mary Henderson on social media for calling him out on social media. I was reminded of one of the things in the COGWA bylaws that made my blood boil at the time and still does (because it was read during the announcements). Anyone serving as an operations manager must have (pg 18 of the attached bylaws):

The least amount of time that I saw was 15 years (for the president). What is truly astonishing about this and seems to be lost on everyone in TX is that Jesus and the 12 apostles would be not eligible to fill any of their administrative positions. There is something really wrong with that.

A recap of the Facebook reaming that Dave Myers got earlier this year:

He posted:

David J. Myers

4 h  · 
Any time a pastor has to ask a person not to fellowship with the flock due to such things as doctrinal disagreement, causing division, derogatory accusations, or the like, it is a sad and heartrending time for that pastor (and many others). He hopes and prays with all his heart that the person will come to see themselves accurately and be able to change their way. His action is done out of love to spur the person to deeply examine themselves and help them to change. The mantle of shepherding in these instances is quite heavy and frankly, unpleasant. If the person does not accept this loving correction, sadly, social media provides a platform for the supposed 'offended' to tell their story widely - from their perspective - which is usually found to be quite 'slanted' and often just plain inaccurate. Good-hearted people can read these 'posts-of-the-offended' and be misled as to what actually went on. Some might think, "If their post doesn't reflect what really has happened, the pastor would defend his action by posting the truth, wouldn't he?" But consider this: I, for one, am thankful that the 'church' does not post its 'side' of the story revealing all the details as to why this painful action has had to be taken. Love and respect for the person being 'disciplined' means that the 'church' would not reveal their personal problems or lay out all the ugly details that led to this necessary action. We all know that the scripture teaches "Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins" (Proverbs 10:12) and "He who covers a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates friends" (Proverbs 17:9). So you will not read the pastor's 'rebuttal' because he loves the person and does not wish to 'air their dirty laundry.' So, a pastor does not post on social media, but rather, prays that the 'offended' comes to his senses and is able to repent. I hope this small window into the shepherd's mantle of responsibility is helpful.

After the usual kissing of loyal members, the negative reactions were swift so much so that he shut downtime conversation. After all, how dare ANYONE ever question the actions of a minister! 

This is what we previously wrote about the story:

A Response to Dave Myers - Take it to the presbyteros or take it to the ekklesia?

God hates Division - The couple Dave Myers is upset about

How God Moved Us Out Of The Church (COGWA)

COGWA's Dave Myers Talks About How Heavy His Shepherds Mantle Is When He Has To Disfellowship Members And Then Watch Them Get On Social Media And Tell THEIR Side Of The Story.

Some of those reactions to Dave Myers post above (with names deleted)

I can’t imagine how hard it must be.

I have seen this heavy responsibility on our pastors many years ago when I witnessed the attacks on a minister who had to put someone out. The people verbally attacking the minister had absolutely no idea of the gravity of the situation.

Try doing what Christ said to do in Matthew 18. The authority to remove does not lie with you but with the congregation. It is way past time that we quit ignoring the scriptural admonitions in favor of our traditions.

there are a lot of people that would like to cast the first stone! So are you sure you would want the whole congregation knowing everything about you?

Are you sure that you would like to ignore the admonition of Christ as to how to handle sin?

I am trying! Be aware the snare of the righteous!

You are trying to ignore the admonition of Christ? Tell me where in the scriptures you picked up this pearl of "wisdom?"
"Be aware the snare of the righteous!"
People who know and understand the path to regaining a brother who is sinning are much less likely to do those things that would cause Matthew 18 to be invoked. Failure to use that procedure creates the problems that we have experienced in the Churches where "headquarters" people ride into congregations, shoot the place up figuratively, leave the brethren bleeding, and the ride off into the sunset in their own righteousness. It is way past time that we started doing what Christ said to do instead of leaning on tradition.

the snare of righteousness would be the leaven of the Pharisees. Thinking they are righteous when indeed they were not. We shouldn’t divide over doctrinal issues but focus on the main thing which is Christ in us and loving one another. The enemy loves to divide us over the twigs on the branches and get our eyes off the trunk who is Christ. Focus the congregation on Christ rather than doctrine and the enemy won’t be able to cause division

Might have been Paul! Regardless what if it is there and you are ignoring it? If you think you are something when you are nothing then you receive yourself! In 1st or 2nd john

We agree but this string was about the problems with removing someone from the congregation by a pastor who then is limited in a public response. There is no doubt that these problems exist. The problems have been further compounded by the leadership of the Church taking to themselves authority that was not granted to them but to the Church/congregation. Had David Myers made sure that Matt 18 was the process, the publicity would have been on the one sinning for not repenting, i.e., they refused to repent and so step three brought the publicity. Then the congregation does not have to wonder whether the one removed was wronged by the pastor. The congregation itself would have put the person out.

Find it for us since you "quoted" it. Yes, if anyone thinks that they are something they have forgotten to look into that spiritual mirror and don't realize who they are. However, none of this helps the situation described by David Myers above. The solution is to follow what Christ said because HE knows best--and you don't.

I wholeheartedly agree with you!! I was born and raised in the church and have never witnessed the ministry (or the members) correctly following the Matthew 18 protocol for handling disagreements within the congregation as Scripture lays out.
Steps are: 1) go to your brother one on one to try to discuss. 2) if that doesn't work, bring in a few witnesses 3) if that doesn't work, take it to the ekklisia, the congregation (not the ministry!) in hopes for reconciliation! (Not condemning!) If it can still not be reconciled, the person causing the issue is to then be removed and treated as a non-believer (yes, even the minister, if he is the one at fault!)
Problem is, the ministry thinks they are the sole authority above all other members and are above this instruction found in Scripture. As you said, Royce, if someone truly did need to be removed, they should have gone through ALL 3 steps FIRST, and if it ended up needing to go to that last step, it would have allowed BOTH parties to share their side before the whole congregation, so there wouldn't be any question of what was going on, nor would there be any secrets for rumors or gossip to spread, because the brethren would know what was going on.
It would also allow the ENTIRE congregation to support and pray for the situation, not just the minister in secret, creating a higher chance for redemption for the person in question. It was never the responsibility of the ministry to make these decisions alone.
And the ministry themselves should never be exempt from the process when they're the one in a disagreement with one of their members. If a minister and one of his members have an issue, that minister needs to go through the 3 steps as well, and if it makes it to step 3, that minster should be held accountable by the brethren. But we just don't see that happening in the COG's, and it's quite concerning. It needs to change. I am with you, brother!

Nothing says the witnesses are mediators. They are witnesses that the offended brought the problem to the offender and whether or not the offender repented...nothing more is said by Christ. We need to be careful not to add to His words.

thanks for pointing that out!

 

need to be careful and listen to his words! I don't see a whole lot of mercy these days! If you can judge and show mercy , love at the same time I say well done.

Actually, what you speak of doesn’t have anything to do with expulsion. Matthew’s text is about offense and the translations defer on what going to the church actually means. What this relates to is more like 1 Cor 5. It involves taking the other brethren with you on the path of dissension.

you need to reread the third step in light of the outcome should the sending party refuse to repent. All Church matters where there is a problem between two individuals should be dealt with as a Matthew 18 procedure. Matthew 18 says, simply stated, if your brother commits an offense against you go in privately and try to work it out. This makes certain that both sides of the problem have their minds right. If one doesn't have their mind right that's when you need to bring in witnesses to see what's going on. It doesn't matter what the problem is, it should be dealt with in this simple way. The final step is a shunning or putting out. That should be the last resort and only made by a congregation, not somebody who thinks they're an authority over other people instead of a servant to the flock. This is not to cast any aspersion on Dave Myers or any other minister. It is the point out a problem and how people who live in the church set things up. And, people all too easily I will only turn over their responsibilities for someone else to do. That's how we got in this situation to begin with. They want somebody else to fix the problem instead of stepping up to the plate and going to their brother and working the problem out. Anyway I don't want to get sidetracked, but we don't need people ruling over us and taking authority into their hands that should be ours and that we should handle. Paul even wrote about some of the brother who are taking matters to court rather than deal with it internally. This internal dealing with problems is the very Matthew 18 procedure that Christ gave us. This is the procedure we ought to be using when we have problems in the congregation, not dumping our responsibilities onto a pastor or any other minister.

How truly sad and difficult!

That's why we are to pray for you. God's support for the ministry is something that none of us can do without.

A pastor consults with several other parties and gets advice and is a group decision and not just the decision of one pastor alone.
Being a pastor has to be one of the most toughest jobs you'll ever love . Praying for you Mr Myers.

Thank you Mr Myers our prayers are with you.

Well lately it's been the ministry who has split the flock and sowed discorce. They have also stepped outside doctrine and made decisions about people's individual choices and made them feel guilty for their own lives.

Rightly so. Members have no power but only those who have access to the pulpit sowing division and creating new organizations. I have witnessed such a heartbreaking incident in 2010 when some elders lambasted ministers whom they claimed as dissidents.

Yes. Making decisions of what we can do on our own time is not okay. I don't mean sinful behavior, I mean the things we are led to do by the Holy Spirit.
Some are corrected for doing GOOD. Bible Studies in the home, you name it.
If we only had Adonai's eyes!! Things are so much bigger than an organization.
Things are really happening. We cannot stand in the way of people's spiritual gifts and Purposes in Him.
I know a handful of loving humble people that were told NOT to do beautiful Spirit led things.
and no, they weren't gossiping about it.

That’s one of the biggest drawbacks in a monolithic organization.
Monolithic is one exhibiting or characterized by often rigidly fixed uniformity. The council in Sanhedrin is an ideal example. They were not concern about preaching the Truth ( for they crucified the TRUTH)and unconcerned about people’s salvation. In verse 48, of John 11, “ If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place (position) and our nation."
Their fundamental concerns are control and their position.

The church as a carnal organization has made a lot of mistakes throughout the years. The Church of God is a spiritual organization led by Jesus Christ our savior. I am 100 percent subject to his authority. I cannot always agree with the decisions made from the pulpit when it goes against my moral values, which are biblically based on the teachings of Christ. You can only have one master either Christ or moral man. I choose Christ!
I am in agreement

Crystal clear and very well stated.

Frankly, none of us know what happened. Both sides of an issues have always disturbed the COG community. I can be sorry for both sides if this issue, without “taking sides” in the debate. Let it go people…

Our entire society is infected by a spiritual virus that has invaded the Church of God. That is "no one is going to tell me what to do." We in the Churches of God need to be correctable. And that's biblical.

yes, we all need to be humble and teachable...members and ministry alike.

So so very true. 

 

We must remember or understand that God's Church is not a democracy. God's Church is lead from the top - God the Father, Jesus Christ down...not from the bottom up. There could be some matters that should be brought to the attention of the members...and there are other issues that should not. That is a prayerful judgement call by the ordained ministry. We individually need to make sure that we are working our OUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling.

Matthew 23, “Then Jesus said to the multitudes and to His disciples,…. Dropping down to verse 8, “But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all BRETHREN .”
Then, verses 10-11, “10 And you must not be called masters (leaders), for you have one Master (Leader), the Christ.
11 He who is greatest among you shall be your servant.”
It’s in the same chapter whereupon Christ pronounced the 7 woes against the so called religious leaders in Israel.

What about the instructions for how to deal with issues within the church found in Matthew 18:15-17 :
“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin against you, go and show him his fault — but privately, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother. If he doesn’t listen, take one or two others with you so that every accusation can be supported by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to hear them, tell the congregation (not the ministry); and if he refuses to listen even to the congregation, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax-collector."

You are in my prayers and for our church.



Mary Henderson
Would you please speak openly and use our names? It's me and my husband Aaron Henderson. Thank you for sharing this and making the conversation bigger. We love you all.

I love you so much!!!!

Will pray about this situation

I have no idea what this post is specifically about. However....
Brothers and Sisters,
Our Abba wants a rising of Holy Soldiers...
This is so much bigger than organizations..
There are 5 Red hieffers, Abrahamic Family House just opened (Google it all)
Do some Brethren cause discord? Of course. The problem with churches is there are people in it.
What I do know is there have been Spirit LED Brethren over the years that aren't "allowed" to do many things. Bible study at home, have family retreats and humbly discuss things that aren't in a COG booklet.
In SOME ministers and Congregations there is a spirit of control. (Not speaking of this one as I've not been there for many years)
The Holy Spirit doesn't control it guides.
The Holy Spirit has been guiding many brethren and it doesn't always fit into the COG rules but it doesn't mean Adonai is not the one that leads and guides them.
Interestingly, sometimes we as humans can inadvertently squash the Spiritual Gifts and God led Purposes of individuals...and it makes the job of THE ENEMY a lot easier.
When you must choose: Follow the gentle guide of the Holy Spirit or the control of man, always choose The Lord Almighty!


What if, as in many cases, the pastor is wrong? Does that person get to tell the congregation not to associate with the pastor?


as we have had church splits, we know that we are to prove all things ourselves. Question the teaching and do your personal best to make your decision.
To vilify one human is wrong. The pastor tries to uphold the church teachings and not vilify the one being asked to leave.
I left WCG. I left UCG. We chose our physical leaders. We can have conflicts with our physical leaders. But we each must be able to do the Bible study and pray for each other for proper guidance.
If you feel the pastor is wrong, pray for him. Pray for your personal guidance in dealing with this matter. When the truth is revealed, it will be awkward for someone. Pray that it is not awkward for you.
(My personal experience and mindset. I’m thankful for those that I trust that I can ask for physical guidance as well.)
you didn't need to write all that nonsense. You could've just said you don't know how to answer the question.

to me it’s not nonsense. Thanks anyway for your feedback

answer the questions. If the pastor is wrong, does the person who isn't wrong, get to demand the people shun the pastor?
And why don't you just pray for them instead of shunning them, if it's not the pastor? You know, like you say the congregation would, if the pastor was wrong?


I understand this fully. I have seen both sides. I can say that it is confusing when a person is originally put out. The person usually has a front that is a mask over the issues that caused the decision. Once the person is comfortable, the truth will surface.
I am aware of one example where the person was not honest and I became aware of the whole situation after the decision to remove the member. I can definitely see why that one was not allowed in the congregation. (I can think of several people who would say this refers to them).
It’s never an easy task. I’m sorry for the heartache the whole situation causes. It destroys relationships and makes us question our own choices.
The Bible says that many will fall away. Some people try to take away the faith of others as they go.


So much love! Let's get this issue out there people! Matthew 18 says tell it to the Church! (Before you disfellowship someone).



Ohhhhh NOW I know the individuals David J. Myers is talking about. It doesn't take much. I remember great public venting regarding other couples in sermons and everyone knew who was being criticized.
Brothers and Sisters: Mary Henderson and Aaron Henderson are humble, loving, serving, Spirit LED children of the most high.
Do NOT be deceived children of God.
Pride and Control is alive and well in some authoritative leaders in some congregations/organizations.
Wait, I keep reading the part of not posting on social media IN a post on social media...
Was Matthew 18 used? In lieu of this post I reckon things will now become public. It's sad it has to come to this.
Truly a beautiful Godly couple


I am allergic to Religious Fanaticism!
I won't say anything. Just makes me to want to stay away from religious people including ministers.


Christ said go the extra mile, give your coat, turn the other cheek. Paul said rather be wronged, Peter said take it patiently. EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE BEEN WRONGED, FACEBOOK IS NOT THE PLACE TO COME AND DISCUSS IT! Which is what I saw this posting to be about! Anything else is plain wrong!!!
I’ll add this: if you are on your knees, praying to our Father to inspire and direct the Ministry and the pastors in carrying out their incredibly difficult ministrations, you don’t have the time to point fingers.
Nothing will please the Adversary more than dragging the Church into mini disagreements that keep us from the commission of preaching the gospel, and preparing a people.
May the Father be pleased to save us.


As the end of the age draws closer...more and more of the brethren become easily offended. This is when it is extremely important to draw closer to our Father in prayer and fasting for spiritual discernment. It certainly is not easy for the ministers at this point in time. But ultimately it is the responsibility of each individual to make things right in the eyes of the Lord. Reprimands are necessary for the growth of the body of Christ to prepare us for eternal life. Human nature is our enemy that we must overcome so we can have agape love that draws us closer to our brethren. That's why we are to pray for the brethren everyday. We also must remember that ministers are human too and very capable of making mistakes just as we all are. We should never be quik to judge and condemn...but be ready to love and forgive as our elder Brother taught us to do.

Is it possible that people in Ministry roles will be "more and more easily offended"? I know this couple and they are doing beautiful Spirit led things. Matthew 18 matters.

it certainly is important to have love, patience, and grace towards one another, as well as forgive and not be quick to judge/condemn... and while we know that ALL brethren (ministers and members alike) will fall short, there are times when, as you said, reprimands are necessary, above and beyond just prayers, love, and forgiveness. Members will often seek ministers to help in that regard...but who keeps the ministers accountable when THEY need reprimanding? Oftentimes, the ministry gets final say without the members having a voice. Abuse, neglect, and overlording has been common among the COG ministry for generations. If the members do not have a voice to defend themselves, and the Matt 18 protocol is not being followed as it is suppose to be, then brethren are lost and the abuse continues. There needs to be a way to hold ministers accountable when they cross lines they are not suppose to cross.


 anyone can fall into the trap of being easily offended. That's why we are to be on guard against the wiles of our adversary. Not one of us is exempt from this attack. If someone is unjustly accused of something... that's when we fall on our knees in prayer for guidance and understanding. We should remember the example that Christ gave us when He was nailed to the stake after being beaten and accused of wrongs. He prayed for the Father to forgive those who wronged Him. He did this out of love for them. We should be able to do the same for those that have wronged us.

This type of thing has been going on since I can remember. I have seen the COG split several times in the 40 some years I have attended. Prove all things to yourself. After all of the years I have attended, I still have many questions. Belittling ones curiosity is not a way to handle things.
Causing disturbance though is another issue.

Crackpot Prophet Asks: Is cannibalism safe for humans?

Holy Hanna! It's a new day in Church of God La-La Land and as usual, I was missing more things on my bingo card:

Is cannibalism safe for humans?

Is cannibalism ethical?

Our most highly esteemed, doubly blessed, and self-appointed prophet to the entire world, especially to Africa and 100 Caucasians, the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel has a promo for one of his latest sermons where he asks the following questions:

Recently, various ones have been looking into encouraging cannibalism as a way to help reduce climate change? Is cannibalism safe for humans? What is Kuru? What about Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease? Is cannibalism ethical? Should Christians avoid uncleanness? What does the Bible teach about the consumption of flesh? How does the Bible teach Christians should be holy? What was Solyent Green? Is it being advocated now? Is human cannibalism prophesied in the Bible? Will famine hit the Anglo-American lands and peoples? What can you do to not have part in it? Is human cannibalism really prophesied? Dr. Thiel addresses these issues and more.

The absolute bullshit that occupies certain Church of God leaders' minds is appalling. It is no wonder God says he rejects them all. 

Crackpot Prophet Says That Once The European Beast Power (Germany) Conquers The United States It Will Make a Deal To Give Alaska Back To Russia

Gone are the days when we thought Gerald Flurry, Ron Wienland, and Alton Billingsley were the resident Church of God crackpots with their end-time looney tune ideas. The things they have said and still say pale in comparison to the absolute idiocy that comes out of the mouth of our self-crowned end-time prophet to the Churches of God, the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel.

Today the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu had another prophecy/conspiracy-laden pop-tart up about Alaska. There has been severe flooding after a glacial dam burst on the Mendenhall River near Juneau, Alaska. Several homes were damaged or destroyed in the flooding of the river. This event fits nicely into the end-time scenarios that the Great Bwana NEEDS to happen in order to validate his craziness.

Bystanders could only watch as a home collapsed into the Mendenhall River in Juneau, Alaska, amid major flooding and erosion caused by a new glacier lake outburst flood. https://t.co/GlRVSHI5Y6 pic.twitter.com/5AfXld6mSY

— ABC News (@ABC) August 6, 2023

Then the great Bwana Bob Mzungu adds:

Floods can cause problems in many places–and do.

Then things drastically switch gears as the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu wets his pants over China and Russia conducting naval exercises close to Alaska.

China & Russia Sent Huge Naval Flotilla Toward Alaska; US Responds By Dispatching Destroyers. August 6, 2023

A large joint Russia-China military exercise which is being described as unprecedented in size has sparked alarm in the Pentagon, given it took place off Alaska, causing the US to dispatch four navy warships and aerial assets in the same waters, a very rare move itself of significant size. Zero Hedge

Which then immediately turned into this:

Beyond being provocative, as I have reported here over the years, Russia wants at least part of Alaska, which it once controlled, back.

Last year, a reader tipped me of to the following that Newsweek posted:

‘Alaska Is Ours!’ Billboards Appear in Russia After Threat to Reclaim State

July 7, 2022

Billboards proclaiming “Alaska Is Ours!” have been spotted in Russia one day after a key ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin suggested that the country could reclaim the territory that was sold to the U.S. in 1867.

Multiple billboards bearing the slogan surprised residents in the Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk after being spotted on Thursday, according to Krasnoyarsk news agency NGS24. One day earlier, Putin ally and State Duma speaker Vyacheslav Volodin suggested that Russia could “take back” Alaska in retaliation for economic sanctions imposed on Russia following the country’s invasion of Ukraine.

The idea that Russia will regain Alaska is not “totally mad” as the tweet states. I do NOT think it is mad at all that some in Russia think that they should regain control of Alaska.

The Great Bwana then adds this comment from the Governor of Alaska:

 

 

To the Russian politicians who believe they can take back Alaska: Good luck.https://t.co/5eEVfJR5r5

— Governor Mike Dunleavy (@GovDunleavy) July 7, 2022

In Bwana Bob Mzungu's constant crybaby state of mind, he envisions the citizens of Alaska meekly standing by and allowing Russia to take over the state. Of course, this is after Germany had bombed the hell out of the state and imprisoned Alaskans in concentration camps. That's the kind of scenario crybabies like Bwana Bob Mzungu would allow to happen. 

Considering almost 60% of Alaskans have guns, I see scenes from the original Red Dawn playing out when I read Bwana Bob getting aroused at the prospect of Russia trying to get Alaska back.

 

Then, for some ungodly reason, he quotes Adam Schiff (one of California's biggest elected morons) who represents CA District 30 which includes West Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, Hollywood, Beverly Hills, and parts of Los Angeles. 

Our big Church of God snowflake continues (remember, Bwana Bob is an authority on EVERYTHING...):

February 3, 2020 

 

Adam Schiff of California claimed during closing arguments in the Senate impeachment trial Monday that President Donald Trump will sell a U.S. state to the Russian government if not removed from office. 

 

If “abuse of power” was not impeachable, Schiff argued, “then a whole range of utterly unacceptable conduct in a president would now be beyond reach.” 

 

“Trump could offer Alaska to the Russians in exchange for support in the next election, or decide to move to Mar-A-Lago permanently and leave Jared Kushner to run the country, delegating to him the decision whether they go to war. Schiff: Trump Will Sell Alaska To Russia If We Don’t Impeach Him

Here is how the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel sees Russia getting Alaska back:

Although Russia does not know how it will happen, I think I do. It is certainly possible that if Russia makes a deal with the rising European Beast power that it may end up with Alaska. 

 

Consider the following prophecy:

39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain (Daniel 11:39). 

 

The “he” is the European King of the North (cf. Daniel 11:40). The strongest fortresses in the 21st century belong to the USA, and to a lessor degree its British-descended allies. 

 

Since Bible prophecy points to Anglo-lands being divided in various scriptures, Russia may well end up with some of all of Alaska and maybe even parts of Canada.

He ends with this:

Russia still has limited ties to Alaska–and it does want it back. 

 

Flooding aside, yes, I believe Russia will end up with Alaska.

This is the kind of useless crap that occupy the minds of Church of God spiritual deviates who are consumed by legalism and the desire for their vengeful god to come and wipe out humanity that they see as grievous sinners who defy their god in everything they do. 

If they were actually followers of the New Covenant and dared to recognize Jesus, which they really do not, they would understand that their lives do not need to be filled with endless speculation, worry, and wanton vengeance as their minds currently dwell upon. It really pisses these guys off that here they are trying to do everything right and be perfect while all around them people do what they want and don't care what they, the self-appointed prophets of doom say.

Christians at rest in New Covenant understanding don't need to worry about this kind of pseudo-prophetic drivel. Being at rest and living in confidence in that rest supersedes all of the pop-tart theology of Bwana Bob Mzungu and the rest of the self-appointed prophets of doom in the Church of God movement.