One of the sad characteristics of many fundamentalists who claim "we are the only truth" and exclusionary sects in this country is its weaponized system of disfellowshipping and marking members who they deem as unable to fit the expectations of the sect. It is a powerful tool to keep members in line and living in a constant state of fear. In Armstrongism these actions meant an immediate loss of salvation and exclusion from the place of safety.
For many, this was a spiritually damaging event in their lives and drove them completely away from God, something the church claimed it was not meant to do. The pain it caused was not only with the person/persons involved but with family and dear friends - or at least people you thought were friends.
Sadly in the Church of God movement many pastors and church leaders took great delight in publicly shaming members. Sure they put on a great face in front of the members on how this was painful for them to do, but was necessary. Once they kicked people out, no contact was ever made with them again. If a member decided to come back they had to come back groveling on their own begging for mercy from God's right-hand man.
The other day, Dave Myers from Church of God a Worldwide Association decided to talk about how painful this was for pastors in COGWA. The crap quickly hit the fan, something he was not expecting, and as usual in the COG, immediately blamed everyone else for their response.
What really rang his bell was that people do not take too kindly to this kind of false "love" and reacted on social media about it. How dare they! How dare they tell THEIR side of the story. Something that no disfellowshiped member of the COG movement has ever been able to do. Of course, these deceived sheep are telling their story from a personal slant and most of the time completely inaccurate. They are liars as no COG minister is capable of telling a falsehood or give out inaccurate information.
Any time a pastor has to ask a person not to fellowship with the flock due to such things as doctrinal disagreement, causing division, derogatory accusations, or the like, it is a sad and heartrending time for that pastor (and many others). He hopes and prays with all his heart that the person will come to see themselves accurately and be able to change their way. His action is done out of love to spur the person to deeply examine themselves and help them to change. The mantle of shepherding in these instances is quite heavy and frankly, unpleasant. If the person does not accept this loving correction, sadly, social media provides a platform for the supposed 'offended' to tell their story widely - from their perspective - which is usually found to be quite 'slanted' and often just plain inaccurate. Good-hearted people can read these 'posts-of-the-offended' and be misled as to what actually went on. Some might think, "If their post doesn't reflect what really has happened, the pastor would defend his action by posting the truth, wouldn't he?" But consider this: I, for one, am thankful that the 'church' does not post its 'side' of the story revealing all the details as to why this painful action has had to be taken. Love and respect for the person being 'disciplined' means that the 'church' would not reveal their personal problems or lay out all the ugly details that led to this necessary action. We all know that the scripture teaches "Hatred stirs up strife, But love covers all sins" (Proverbs 10:12) and "He who covers a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter separates friends" (Proverbs 17:9). So you will not read the pastor's 'rebuttal' because he loves the person and does not wish to 'air their dirty laundry.' So, a pastor does not post on social media, but rather, prays that the 'offended' comes to his senses and is able to repent. I hope this small window into the shepherd's mantle of responsibility is helpful.
Dave's response to people's responses:
David J. Myers May 4 at 10:52 AM
As if often the case with social media, it can easily devolve into squabbles between people who use the platform to proclaim their particular opinions, complaints, and troubles. Since this has become the case with my most recent post, I have decided to delete it and try to follow the admonition found in 1 Timothy 1:3-7. Warm regards
29 comments:
I remember the Myers family when I was in Pasadena when they did their "We are family" schtick at church dances. A bunch of self-righteous pompous asses. As they each jumped shipped into various COG's they have carried that same attitude with them. Like most of the ministry who defected from UCG they thought their shit didn't stick and they were the true preservers of the truth. Stay away from the Myers boys and COGWA if you want to maintain real spiritual health.
Isn't "disfellowshipping" a lot harder these days, with so many COGs out there?
Kick someone out of COGWA (as an example) and they can walk quietly into UCG or CGI - or even join a worship group online.
Or if they wish, the disfellowshipped can keep watching webcasts of their "former" congregation from home. I haven't heard of the groups changing webcast passwords, the way employers do door codes when someone is dismissed.
(Speaking here about more "open" COGs. PCG and RCG clearly are different.)
The best thing that ever happened to me was when my asshat minister kicked me out. I found true freedom, spiritually, mentally, and financially. My relationship with God is better than it ever was when I was in COGWA. I am financially stable now and debt-free, something I never was while a member because I keep funding these morons. Family relationships shave been restored. Work relationships are stronger and better than anything I had when in COGWA.
If you ever get kicked out of CGOWA by Myers or any other of these morons, take it as a badge of honor and run like hell as fast as you can away from the cult nonsense.
These guys still wish their authority could be absoluts. Those who are disfellowshipped are supposed to just slink off and not have anything to say, and to act as if God himself has rejected them.
From a minister's perspective, if you need to disfellowship someone, does that not mean that you have failed as a spriritual guide? You have not communicated effectively?
R.L. said "Kick someone out of COGWA (as an example) and they can walk quietly into UCG or CGI - or even join a worship group online."
actually, COGWA and LCG work hand in hand on several levels to keep track of anyone who might move from one of these COG group to the other. I remember their leaders meetings a few years ag, and keeping track of people who jumped between LCG and COGWA was agreed on. Also LCG and COGWA compared their doctrines to see what they had in common and what were their differences.
The Church of God where every issue is always someone else's fault.
What is the social media posted response to Dave? Seems this story is only half told.
The highest treason is using the gifts God has given you to draw people to Him, but instead, using God's gifts to draw people to yourself. Armstrong and his gangsters committed the highest act of treasonous drawing people away from God to himself declaring he determined if they were called or saved. They had no fear of God.
Awesome 3:49. I am so glad you were set free and are now close to God.
They definitely change the passwords at LCG
The process of disfellowshipping is easily abused. Disfellowshipping can be weaponized and result in internecine conflict. Conflict and disfellowshipping is the orthogenetic way in which Armstrongist churches splinter and proliferate, each party to the conflict claiming to retain status as the "true church." Disfellowshipping can be used by an autocratic ministry as a form of muscle-flexing - something to put fear into the "church trash." In direct terms, within Armstrongism disfellowshipping is almost always heavily politicized and sometimes weaponized.
Becuause disfellowshipping is easily abused in church governance, Jesus provided a counter balance to its overweening power. Jesus stated in each of the synoptic gospels:
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
This is a New Covenant Law that serves as a governor on the process of disfellowshipping or actually any process where church governance may be abused. The disfellowshipper (a minister) must be profoundly certain, to the point of refraining it there is the least doubt, that there is not even the slightest political taint to a disfellowshipping decison. The Law Jesus stated has frightening consequences. It should always be cited in conjunction with disfellowshipping policy and practice. I would guess that it is never cited in this context in Armstrongist denominations. This leaves the minister thinking he has a free hand to operate but he does not and the consequences will have a practical effect on his life. Having a disfellowshipping policy without this NC Law being prominently featured is like giving someone a loaded gun to play with and providing no warning.
But, then again, this New Covenant Law was given to the Body of Christ not a Millerite cult. What does it mean to be disfellowshipped from a cult?
Ironic that he took to social media to complain about the disfellowshipped couple discussing their situation on social media. He says he's not giving a rebuttal when, in fact, he is.
Self appointed leaders and power hungry personalities cannot tolerate any threats to their authority. The fact that anyone who is marked may be able to give a conflicting account of events is terrifying to a narcissist. No wonder quack apostles like Gerald Flurry have banned smart phones.
The congregations should have the right to disfellowship their pastors
if they refuse to teach all of the books of the Bible, do not show detailed yearly financial records of how your money is being spent at each level, you the paying members are not allowed to vote on how your money is being spent, try to humiliate you in front of other people bullying/slandering/ pretending they are God with the attitude of , "I determine your salvation" or the other beauty, "I know the truth, and if you disagree with me, you aren't called at this time." Cult leadership erase what the Bible says about Holy Spirit being each of our own personal counselors. They kick Holy Spirit out. The cult pastors and leadership demand to know your personal sins when it is between you and God. God promises if you personally repent to Him being truly sorry and mean it, "I will cast your sins as far as the East is from the West and into the deepest parts of the sea" and, "I will remember them no more. "Those evil pastors try to dig up what God has forgiven & use it against you when your eyes are opened up. They shout out your past forgiven sons God doesn't remember and try to shame you out loud to everyone. Evil men. They are "the trash."
The worst aspect to Myers’s post is the backhanded nature of it. I don’t know if he knows how disgusting this is because he has been formed by the cultish cogs from childhood and such a response is expected even for one with a seemingly more genial disposition like Myers.
This is a doctrinal/hierarchical issue, yet Myers wants us to understand the restraint he is showing by not addressing the ugly details and personal problems.
Where did that come from?? Why would a COGWA minister feel that part of his response would include ugly details and the revealing of personal problems when confronted with a doctrinal/hierarchical issue??
Do these ministers think their cultish organization is so important that in order to protect their cultish doctrines they must discredit a respectable young couple that was actually on the fast track of COGWA leadership with an ad hominem response? It’s certainly been the prevailing pattern in wcg and the cogs.
But, the fact of the matter is that this young family and multiple others who support them cannot be so easily maligned with an attempt at airing “dirty laundry”. This is a well loved family for good reason and Myers must know that objection to a Bible Study among several families without a minister present is not a winning position, so better for Myers to disingenuously claim the high road of feigned restraint.
Ministers have very little accountability as employees. They should be voted on every two years or so, as to whether they keep their jobs or not.
A Bible study can be between you and God and you and other believers. A pastor is not required. Invite Holy Spirit to lead the Bible Study praying inviting Him in before you begin the Bible Study. Have home Bible Studies. Cult leaders expose themselves when they insist they have to be there or oversee your phone calls. That's not God. Do not allow yourself to be manipulated, coerced, deceived, distracted, confused, & manipulated. Once again, those evil fake pastors try to set it up so Holy Spirit is not allowed in so the devil is leading the Bible Study.
"The trash " are the twisting of scripture pastors and hierarchy who choose to participate in manipulation, coercion, no accountability or transparency, who demonstrate
0 remorse, 0 repentance, and take 0 immediate steps to stop the steal.
You fruit is rotted all over the ground for all to see. YOU ARE THE TRASH!!!
The fake pastors and hierarchy steal finances, break up families, twist scripture to fit their narratives, and give a hateful picture of God, Jesus, & Holy Spirit. Their whole system is set up to break all of the 10 commandments.
Armstrong stole his wife's health by denying her medical treatment and raped his daughter for 10 years as the court records show and took an expensive vacation on a brand new cruise ship while you were to GIVE IT ALL. How much bad fruit do you need to see???
Frankly, I still wish that COGWA would get rid of that stupid Winter Family X-mass Weekend custom. It is as if the weekly Sabbaths and annual festivals are not good enough for them, and they think they need to go back to observing X-mass. Why did they ever teach against X-mass if they themselves cannot give it up?
Anonymous at 4:13 PM said...“actually, COGWA and LCG work hand in hand on several levels to keep track of anyone who might move from one of these COG group to the other. I remember their leaders meetings a few years ag, and keeping track of people who jumped between LCG and COGWA was agreed on. Also LCG and COGWA compared their doctrines to see what they had in common and what were their differences.”
The various self-appointed leaders of the different splinter groups cannot help making up their own doctrinal changes, or “doctrinal upgrades” as Rod Meredith called his doctrinal changes. Eventually, the different splinter groups get so far apart on doctrines that they cannot unite.
After Herbert W. Armstrong was dead, Rod Meredith rejected the idea that HWA was the one who had come in the spirit and power of Elijah to “restore all things,” even though Rod had gone along with giving HWA a Steuben Crystal gift called “The Cup of Elijah the Prophet” while HWA was still alive. Rod thought that he could make up doctrines too.
HWA's big thing was the Gospel OF Jesus, the good news of the coming kingdom of God. HWA went on and on about how the Gospel OF Jesus had been replace early on with a Gospel ABOUT Jesus. To try to show that he was spiritually smarter and better than HWA, Rod took HWA's Gospel OF Jesus and combined it with the world's churches' Gospel ABOUT Jesus to come up with a two-fold, or hybrid, gospel message.
Rod spent his time in his GCG splinter group, and then in his LCG splinter group, trying to belittle the relatively huge work that the Worldwide Church of God under HWA had done before HWA died in January 1986. The WCG was then destroyed by the apostate Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. in January 1995 when he openly threw out of the WCG virtually everything that HWA had taught. This was a pretty big falling away. Rod's relatively tiny, little, (barely) Living Church of Rod teaches that the falling away is something that will happen in the world.
What part of "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, I am there in the midst of them." do the COGs not get? We see the Bereans doing Bible studies - without a "minister" - to prove that what they were hearing was true. They were going to the source, not just taking humans' words that "the scriptures say..."
The whole "you can't have a Bible study without a minister present" is absurd if you really think about it. That means you and I, as individuals can't study our Bibles, because a minister isn't there. Where is the holy spirit in all this? Didn't Jesus say it would teach us all things. This notion kind of kicks our Lord's words to the curb.
The NT shows groups meeting in homes for Sabbath services. It was, in essence, a Bible study where everyone had the opportunity to discuss the scriptures. It was not what we see, modeled by the way, after the Catholic church (if you haven't read Pagan Christianity, you should), where the whole service is passive and the speaker is elevated above the associated people sitting in the chairs.
God never intended that. And, the lament is often that no one wants to talk about scripture at services. Why? They don't get to discuss it as part of services. And, then, there's the whole "doctrinal/divisive/heresy" fear hanging over everyone's head. So, what happens is people socialize, but they do not fellowship.
Can someone please post more about who was disfellowshipped by Myers and why?
Of all the ministers that ever "served" in our congregation, Myers had to have been the worst.
Anonymous, 11:35 said, "Anonymous Anonymous said...
Can someone please post more about who was disfellowshipped by Myers and why?"
You can find the answer here from the couple themselves: https://www.youtube.com/@livesovereign
@Anonymous 7:57 - The sad part, of course, is that COGs have password-protected web services at all.
Locking the doors when an in-person service begins is a sadly necessary security precaution in 2023. The continual stories about mass shootings make that clear.
But why "protect" a webcast? Are COGs that afraid that someone from the "Dark Web" will back them?
The splits of the last 35 years have shown me that many COGs are more fear-full than faith-full. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Not all cogs have password protected web services.
This! 👆👆
Winter Family Weekends have nothing to do with xmas. Why does that keep resurfacing? People have time off from work because it's that time of year for paganmas, kids are on winter break, they go and meet with brethren, play sports, eat together, have Sabbath services together, parents spend time with their families ... How is any of this a problem? Seriously now. Sigh.
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