"I'll Take That Under Advisement..."
My Currently 97 year old father had a life long habit, when told he HAD to do or HAD to believe something of saying the above to such "shoulds" and "musts." He'd say it to the doctor when told what he had to do or needed done. He'd say it to those he worked for who had great ideas for him that he must or should do. He'd say it to COG ministers who came and went through our home church in Rochester, NY where he was an elder for years before he wrote Joe Tkach Jr to thank him for emptying his church of members and signed it, "M. T. Hall" which I occasionally use in honor of his snark and abilities to set emotional and common sense boundaries.
My dad once mentioned to Dave Pack in Spokesman Club , when Dave was chiding all for not memorizing their scripture cards, that "these men here work all week and have families. They don't always have the time to just memorize scriptures." Of course this offended Dave who told my dad he would see him during the break. Dad said, "no you won't," which is another form of "I'll take that under advisement..." Love ya dad!
Whats with the good folk who follow and swallow everything a Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry or Ron Weinland (and many others) dish out as truth complete with all the shoulds and musts of having to believe and act on it all? What kind of folk actually do "send it in" or close out a 401 K, sell a home, or send in "extra" monies to a Dave Pack to build a physical plant in an age where online learning is a much easier and less expensive way to go? What kind of common sense does a Dave Pack have who must realize now he can't ask for it all to be sent in more than once? Pulling big triggers, as he demands, can't happen often.
For that matter, what kind of folk put up with, "When we go to the Place of Safety," (as if I had this all correctly understood for you) or "I am an Apostle" (because I just made myself one), "I am a prophet" (because I say so), "I am spoken of by the minor prophet Haggai and I am Joshua," (because I have worn you out with analogies)," or "I am one of the Two Witnesses and my wife is the other one"?
I cannot say it or explain it any better than Mr. Head Usher did recently in his response to a recent entry on the ten qualities resilient human beings seem to have.
Head Usher Noted:
"A healthy identity is actually a boundary issue."
"Who has the right to define your identity and tell you who you are? Does god
have the right to define you? If you're a xian, it's hard to argue otherwise. Do
"god's true representatives on earth" have the right to define you? You can see
where this is going – downhill fast."
COG folk and all fundamentalists habitually believe that others have this right. Being authentic as themselves seems to never cross their minds or if it does, they have a perpetual stomach ache keeping it at bay. Every week they get redefined by others as noted, be it by the God of others who in print said this or that, by the characters in the Bible who are said to have said this or that and by the minister who decides whatever God or the characters who are said to have said this or that really meant in his opinion, which you better take as Gospel.
Whatever you get out of the Bible or from the sermon, you are NEVER to get the idea you can take it all under advisement. Of course you can but that would rob the church and minister of their perceived and often phony authority over your life and views.
In reality, one can't help but be themselves, but in the Churches of God, every effort is made to crush that reality either by thinking it is some kind of sin to be oneself or having a more sinister motive of shaping sincere members into mere followers of a clever man and HIS ideas of how it all is.
"Xianity doesn't have to make unreasonable demands, but it always has the
power to make unreasonable demands seem reasonable"
Can anyone argue with this? Making unreasonable demands seem reasonable... That is what Gerald Waterhouse made a career out of. Telling stories and weaving tales that were plainly unreasonable, and while he did MANY KNEW IT BUT SAID NOTHING, and making it SEEM reasonable. Dave Pack is a weaver of such tales as well along with Flurry and Weinland. Others qualify but are bit players.
For example, did going to Petra in Jordan as a safe place to be during the end of the age seem reasonable? Does it still? "Let's flee America where everything near and dear to me exists and go be safe in the Middle East? What kind of shit for brains thought that one up? "God will protect us." Really? In the last 50 years how much protection has God given beyond that which is just the luck of the draw or life at its worst? I buried a lot of children in my day "whose Angels do watch over them."
Anyone who does not question their church or addled headed minister on his concept of a place of safety needs to have THEIR head examined. Whatever happened to "hide me in the grave until thy wrath be past?" Works for me. It might be nice if you researched whether the "Exodus" and the children of Israel wandering 40 years in the wilderness where their shoes did not wear out, they had plenty of boring food and some water but the first group was ultimately forbidden to make it and destined to die there, ever actually happened, before you make too big an analogy or adopt of a belief on what "God" will do for you in Petra.
Dave Pack is said to have decided, after seeing how tourist ridden Petra is, the Place of Safety is a few miles away from there. What a jerk. The whole idea is a massive boundary of common sense violation and excellent example of the unreasonable sounding reasonable.
It's a bad COG member mental habit. Stop it!
I certainly hope that should the day arise when someone who feels they can habitually violate your boundries and common sense utters the words, "It's time to flee.., " you will take it under advisement.
" Xianity is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. In the hands of abusive
cult leaders like Armstrongism's ministurds, it will make unhealthy demands on
everyone. You've got to have a strong sense of yourself to repel the
Gosh I hate that term "Minis-turds"! LOL. Oh well...I was one until I wasn't. Most COG members who are the wheat sifted out from the chaff , as I am sure they are told, have NO STRONG SENSE OF WHO THEY ARE. They have a strong sense of who Dave Pack , Gerald Flurry or Ron Weinland says or said they are. Around here those who follow and attend Bob Jones University are called Jonesers. Ask a kid who he or she is and they will tell you, "I attend Bob Jones." They have no clue that is not the answer to the question. Thus we have the titles "Armstrongists," "Packsters," "Weinlanders," "Flurryites," and ...... "minis-turds."
However, I have come a long way personally and I am now just me. I wish all COG "members" the same end results..
"People raised in abusive homes don't notice the onslaught."
This is the absolute truth. While I was not raised in such a home or environment, I am sure one gets used to drama and the strange and weird (where have I heard those terms before?) get to sounding normal. Yelling and swearing are "normal." Anger and control are "normal." "If you say so," or "Because I said so," seems normal. None of it is of course.
I suppose in my own growing up , where common sense seemed a daily occurrence, accounts for my own sense of "that's stupid," that for a time I suppressed when young and caught up in the church and all it's drama. After all, the Bible is full of the same kind of COG drama the Church provided so it must be "normal." It must be me...
"They've already been conditioned to perceive the unreasonable as
reasonable, and to accept the unacceptable."
I can add nothing to this statement. Read it 100 times.
" Boundary violations are normal for them."
See last comment...
Look at me...Stop it!
Those of you who lurk here from the three worst examples of boundary violation in the Churches of God...Pack-Flurry-Weinland (Larry-Moe-Curly?) wake up. It's ok to doubt the fantastic theories and scriptural weavings you hear every week about your ministers role in the universe and your part in funding it all. It's ok to doubt the false concept of "The Place of Safety" as being safe at all or even what the Bible is saying for any "end time" folk. Remember, when those words were originally spoken they were not for YOU or US. They were for THEM. You really don't have to "send it in" and your doubts, cautions or common sense musings are NONE of these fake ministers business.
Someone like Dave Pack spends months wearing folk down to believe the unbelievable and find the unreasonable to be reasonable and then you ALL end up looking like fools as he readjusts the "truth" so the circus can go on...
Ron Weinland still has followers he manipulates from prison. The man has never once hinted at he may have done something wrong or inappropriate with the monies sent in. Gerald Flurry thinks he is spoken of in Malachi and Bob Thiel, who has the theological insights, teaching skills and charisma of an Ewok, wants you to believe he is both a prophet AND heads the only true church of God on earth. That is nuts! He wants you to accept the unreasonable as very reasonable. If you do, no one can help you. You simply do not understand the Bible or yourself.
Thank you Head Usher. Your wisdom was born of an unreasonable childhood no doubt and experience in the Church of God. However, your reasonable conclusions should cut the lurkers here and those who have still attached themselves to unreasonable men who violate common sense boundaries for a living and making the scriptures mean what they NEVER could mean, to the bone...
Seat Gyrating used as a cure for mental illness
I'd say , as Dave Pack said, it should make folk "gyrate in your seats...", but that is too much information for me to handle without laughing out loud imagining things I should not be imagining. I can see being glued to my seat (not by Dave Pack's sermons however), but gyrating? No...
...so you should take that gyrating thing under advisement.