Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
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Saturday, August 3, 2013
Here is a great t-shirt for all COG heretics that will be attending Dave's Feast sites in order to get the low down of the Great Reunification.
This should guarantee admittance!
Have you recently left the miniscule personality cult of Bob Thiel? Free yourself by wearing this t-shirt.
Dave ends his stupidity with this:
Four days remain until Elul 1 (Tuesday evening), when the Great Shepherd, Christ, begins actively shepherding the remnant.
In four days lets see what dumb-ass comment Dave will make. Did his "christ" start shepherding the true church or was this a "spiritual" shepherding that took place. Tuesday, August 6, will prove to be a fun day!
Will this happen according to Jerusalem time, Greenwich mean time, Wadsworth Time or Pacific time?
Davie has a lot of chutzpah in calling the Pope the foolish shepherd when he and he alone is the foolish one right now.
Dave is certainly right about one thing - the devil is is certainly counterfeiting the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy right now and its NOT through the pope!
Regarding the “foolish shepherd” of Zechariah 11, this figure appears to already be on the scene. Remember, the devil counterfeits EVERYTHING of God—every doctrine, every tradition, and every prophecy, as well as of course Christianity itself. Now reflect briefly on the elements of Haggai and Zechariah. Next think of the new man living in Rome. As with God’s purpose in this prophecy, this man is also (1) addressing the rich, (2) reaching out to the poor, (3) already using miracles, (4) casting out demons, (5) seeking to unify his flock, (6) overtly seeking to preach his gospel worldwide, (7) spreading the “kingdom of God” worldwide (the true Church preaches it worldwide), (8) teaching that all with the Holy Spirit will come to unity and to the Roman Catholic Church, (9) teaching that all must come under one leader, (10) emphasizing faith and truth working together for Christians to survive the age, (11) teaching how love and truth must also work together, that neither can stand alone, (12) suggesting that Millennial peace, abundance and joy lies just ahead for all, (13) that Michael is the warrior archangel for the Roman Catholic Church, (14) that he must fight on behalf of it because the devil is resisting the Catholic church, (15) emphasizing mercy on all categories of people, and finally (16) exhorting all believers starting with priests to more openly practice the spirit of giving and serving. We would say some or many of these things were good if the context were different—if it were describing God’s Church. However, if you are not reading the headlines of today, then the tremendous BLAST of this ongoing and developing PARALLEL now at work across the world (since early March) is being lost to you. If YOU have not known what God is planning, you should ask why it seems the DEVIL does know—and why he is so obviously COUNTERFEITING the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy NOW!
7,000 new members to go through reeducation camp.
Poor Dave, he has run off at the mouth so much over the last several months that he has to back peddle on how many might actually jumping ship to his splinter group. It has went from all the members and ex-members will come over to 7,000 people (excluding kids).
Many Old Testament passages foretell a remnant of physical Israel returning from captivity. In the Zechariah prophecy, God is going to break His staff called “Grace.” How interesting that the apostle Paul was inspired to describe the New Testament “remnant” (of Romans 11:1-5) as a “remnant according to the election of GRACE.” In addition, verse 4 points to the Old Testament account in I Kings 19. The serious reader may wish to read all of I Kings 19 for parallels in search of why God inspired Paul to use THIS ACCOUNT as a reference regarding how we do or do not listen to God, among other purposes. Recall and reread I Corinthians 10:11 and Romans 15:4 from last week. Is Paul also telling us that 7,000 baptized members will be faithful, and added to His Church? If so, what about children in the count? Are these just the number who are “holdovers, the surviving portion” (the meaning of remnant in Haggai), from the Worldwide Church of God, with others converted later in the splinters on top of this? How do the thousands already in The Restored Church of God fit into this number—if it is to be taken as a literal number at all? I do not know the answers. I have ideas, but we will all wait to see the answers.
Davie has been running off at the mouth over the last several months about the three COG leaders who will soon die a horrible death, yet is not too happy that people want to know who they are.
Of course, many are eager to learn “Who are the three shepherds?” We will know soon enough. But we might ask: Which three leaders are the greatest obstructionists to God’s stated purpose in Haggai—returning HIS people to doing HIS Work? Yet again, we will watch and see.
Of course, numb-nuts really doesn't know himself, so he can't really answer the question.
Yes Dave, pretty up the colossal fat pig that is RCG, but it is still a pig.
Next consider that God has never dealt with people or done with leaders exactly as He plans with the three shepherds. In fact, there may be other miraculous events immediately surrounding this one. A number of verses suggest this. (The case is strong.) In part it will depend on the new greater profile which God wants to use as a starting point for His Work going forward within the “world skyline.” Although it is to be immensely powerful and big before complete, the final Work of God is also foretold to be very short—and Luke 14 shows the Work will be carried out in two stages after the Haggai/“Grace” prophecy is fulfilled. The question becomes how well-known does God want His new expanded Work to be in the immediate wake of His intervention to reunify His flock. Put another way, what does God want His Church and Work to look like on the world scene?
If I were trying to palm myself off as a prophet, I would just spout a personal opinion at this point without worrying about whether I was right or wrong, or what God says. But the above question is an example of something we must wait to see. The “size”—the MAGNITUDE—of the three shepherds’ removal on the world scene will speak volumes to God’s Church and the Government within it about how rapidly God is planning a Work of great impact. Emphatically ruling out emerging “small,” will events of August catapult God’s Work to something immediately the size of “medium,” “large” or “colossal”? While I have ideas, I do not have the answer. We will wait and see together.
Dave is throwing out a proof-text of James 5:1-6 as proof that all the splinter group leaders are corrupt
James 5:1-6The Message (MSG)
Destroying Your Life from Within5 1-3 And a final word to you arrogant rich: Take some lessons in lament. You’ll need buckets for the tears when the crash comes upon you. Your money is corrupt and your fine clothes stink. Your greedy luxuries are a cancer in your gut, destroying your life from within. You thought you were piling up wealth. What you’ve piled up is judgment.4-6 All the workers you’ve exploited and cheated cry out for judgment. The groans of the workers you used and abused are a roar in the ears of the Master Avenger. You’ve looted the earth and lived it up. But all you’ll have to show for it is a fatter than usual corpse. In fact, what you’ve done is condemn and murder perfectly good persons, who stand there and take it.
(6) Supporting this is an extensive New Testament passage written by the apostle James. In a context easily seen to be a parallel of the prophecy—for many reasons!—James 5:1-6 describes the riches of false leaders being corrupted and destroyed. It is interesting that James 5 starts out with “rich men” who are told to “howl,” only one indicator (a strong one) this is a New Testament parallel of the Haggai/Zechariah prophecy.Dave speaks with his usual arrogance ignoring the fact that he lives in a nice home in an exclusive neighborhood, is building a multi-million dollar complex to glorify his name, takes in a large salary, and is the cooperate owner of EVERYTHING that is the Restored Church of God - from cash, assets, and property.
Bragging and boasting his way through the Churches of God, his money is corrupt and his fine clothes stink. His greedy luxuries are like a cancer in his gut, eating away at his soul. He thinks he is piling on grandeur and wealth in order to impress the world and the COG, yet all he is doing is piling on judgment.
The groans of his workers abuse at his church HQ by absurd demands and teachings cry out against him. All Dave has to show for his efforts is a fatter than usual rotting corpse in Wadsworth.
What Dave has done and continues to do is condemn and murder good people in order to be the best.
Dave still is stinging from the refusal of tens of thousands of COG members who do not send him their tithes and offerings. Since everything belongs to his god, and he is his god's most important man, it therefore is a fact that all tithes and offerings belong to Dave - at least in his delusional mind.
(5) Notice the instruction to “this people”—many of whom soon form the remnant—in Haggai 1:8 to “bring wood” from their “mountain(s)” to “build God’s House.” Wood is used for offerings all through the Old Testament. Beginning Christians learn that mountains is a symbol for governments or nations—in this case, governments of the splinters. It is pretty obvious the kind of assets that become available to God’s Work. Related to this, God says in Haggai 2:8 that “the silver is Mine and the gold is Mine.” Ponder this a little in the context of a chapter covering the subjects you have seen. Why would God include such a blunt statement, and seemingly so out of context? It appears God is saying these things were always His, not anyone else’s. The massive thievery by false leaders is now over. In effect, God is saying what was Mine is now Mine again, as it always should have been. If you disagree with the meaning of #5 here, why?
Dave Pack has a special place in his heart for those who mock, ridicule and lampoon his asinine teachings. After his god placed the tens of thousands of wayward COG members into his splinter group there will be a remnant who refuse to join. Dave's god will be so pissed at these people that they will be "severed" for all eternity from having a relationship with his god.
When his god "severs" the heretics from his presence, the cooperate churches they belong to will collapse into ruin.
(3) Zechariah 11:9 describes three categories of people remaining after God removes the “poor of the flock” from their midst—a group now called “you.” These are those who will not return to God’s Church when given the final opportunity, and who are permanently severed from God. Read the passage and see the three categories, as we did last week. What do they say to you? Verse 9 is God interpreting verse 3. Possibly small pieces remain, and probably only temporarily. It is obvious they can accomplish nothing. With God’s Spirit gone, the collapse of corporate assets and income, and loss of many ministers and staff, a less than pretty picture remains.
We learned that God is bringing “desolation” on the splinters. I promised last week to present six biblical proofs that after the prophecy is fulfilled the splinter “houses” will be gone or well on their way out. All competition to God’s true Work will be eliminated.Utter destruction of the churches:
(1) Haggai 1:11 reveals that God calls for a “drought,” more correctly translated “desolation,” involving a list of very distinct categories within the splinters. The categories that God lists are comprehensive—complete. One of my previous announcements explained them. “Desolation” means desolation, not something short of desolation. God’s plain meaning is that He plans to destroy these organizations. On what basis would you disagree with the meaning of desolation?Utter destruction of church leaders
(2) Zechariah 11:3 describes “shepherds” (ministers) “howling” because their “glory is spoiled.” Reviewing last week: Glory means “something ample (as a large vine, a wide dress)…garment, glory, goodly, mantle, robe.” These are “respected” men in positions of authority. Spoiled includes the meaning “ravage: dead, destroy (-er), spoil (-er), (lay) waste.” We might ask: Does this imply anything less than complete desolation? Make yourself answer.
Dave's quick and easy Great Reunification, is not going as smoothly as he had hopped and we still have over 26 days left!. With Aaron Dean's recent comment telling members to stay away from Dave things have gradually gotten worse.
Various COG ministers are telling members to ignore the lunatic rantings of Dave. Little do these very same ministers know they will be automatically cutting themselves off from preaching ever again.
It has been fascinating to see which ministers in the splinters will not even wait to see if they could be wrong in disagreeing with the explanation in these announcements. Rather they are speaking out against the meaning of the prophecy, thus choosing to end their ministry—choosing to give themselves no chance to continue serving God’s people. This is because they have gone on public record against how Christ is regathering His flock (recall Matthew 12:30-32)—and because they do not want to give up their positions of power. Such men should have read and believed the “Attention Ministers” section at the end of each of these announcements. A little patience and humility would have served them well. But, we are all the “captains of our own ship.” This prophecy will soon prove this at a profound level.
Friday, August 2, 2013
In various scriptures there is the constant saying that we will neither know the time or the hour when Jesus will return and all hell breaks loose. One can agree if this is to happen it will be an earth shattering experience. Yet, Davie feels his Great Reunification is soooooooooooooooo important and miraculous that he knows the time and the date it will all happen. A stupid little event in the blip of COG history is more significant than Jesus returning. How dumb can Armstrongism get?
Consider. God would first have to notify—inform!—His Church in advance of His plans, and for many reasons. Again, Amos 3:7. The biggest reason is that His Church could not be ready for what would absolutely blindside it with sudden enormous growth, and growth coming without explanation. Our questions would be what is God doing and why—and when will it end. What does all this mean? Wherever you think God’s Church is, you surely would agree with this much. God would have to inform His Church of what He intended to do. The only question remaining for His Church—and this IS the biggest one we had among many others that were big—was WHEN—what was the YEAR He would gather His people to one House. Consider again. We would also have to know the year of fulfillment EARLY ON or we would waste a tremendous amount of time researching, analyzing and preparing for a prophecy that lay far in the distance. There would have to be enough time to prepare. I can report on behalf of God’s Church that the amount of time given us has been perfect. The Church of God is READY for events now on the horizon.Dave apparently thinks there is absolutely no way that things can go wrong because he has spent sooooooooooooooooooooooo much time planning this all out. Between his dreams and The 16's planning, they have laid out how it is all to happen. Human minds planning what their impotent little god cannot do.
Davie is still recoiling from all the scoffers and mockers lampooning him. He never expected people to make fun of him.
Now he has to point out that he has put a lot of work into getting the message out. Brethren, he has worked soooooooooooooooooo hard that he had to give up his gym membership and his Netflix in order to get this prophecy ready.
In other words, "Its all about me."
Davie also makes another distinction here that saves his ass when everything fails on August 31. Davie says his only job was to INFORM you and NOT to convince you. If it doesn't happen or God delays the event for some reason, it is not my fault. I was only the messenger and God was ultimately in control and has delayed the Great Reunification.
For those who wish to be objective, but who take as a starting point that they do not believe the year of the prophecy’s fulfillment is 2013, ask why you disagree with the internal elements of the prophecy itself. I have put in a great many hours preparing what you read because there is value in getting people to think about what will happen BEFORE it happens. If you are among those who agree with the prophecy but have decided that some later year carries a better chance for fulfillment, then you are probably already at least a little bit “considering your ways” as God instructs twice in Haggai 1. This much is good. The job was never mine to convince you of the prophecy, but rather to inform you in the spirit of God’s promise in Amos 3:7, explained last Friday. It is God’s job to convince you of EVERYTHING He is going to do. His servants merely inform you, knowing they are powerless to convince. Grasp this difference.So brethren, if you are not convinced then Davie's god has done a piss poor job in caring for his lost sheep. If his god can't take care of you in this crucial moment then whats going to happen when things really get rough??????
Dave Pack: Is Not Happy Being Lampooned by all of the Scoffers and Mockers Making Fun of Him....Oh Boo Hoo
Davie is back with what he says is his FINAL message till the Great Reunification happens this month.
You know things are not going as well as he had hoped for when he has to start his latest article off with how much we have made fun of him and his message. Davie has scoffers and mockers lampooning him! Poor thing! All he would have to do is keep his stupid mouth shut and we would go away. But nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo he can't stop making asinine comments, predictions and prophecies.
First we pissed off Wade Cox and now Davie Poo.
"Some weeks ago, when explaining the year that the prophecy is fulfilled, I listed perhaps two dozen reasons for 2013. There are perhaps twice that many more reasons that have been listed by those of us inside the process of learning what God is doing. There is no point in ennumerating them all because they would merely be lampooned by scoffers and mockers who in many cases might not even respond to the prophecy when they SEE it!
Poor Davie. All those meetings with The 16 planning this all out so it would go as smooth as possible has hit a bunch of roadblocks.
Davie thought COG members would be flocking to him with all of their money. With our constant ridicule and Aaron Dean's latest comments about him, Davie has a hard road now to trudge down. Now that it is even more apparent that God is NOT walking with Davie, it is going to prove to be an interesting month!
International Medications NOT Congregations Month!
Men With Strange and Weird Ideas Never Recognize
Their Ideas Are Strange and Weird
Some things just beg for a reminder...If you are tired of hearing this quote then stop reading immediately. David Pack said this approximately five months before he split from Global Church of God and started his own version based on strange and weird ideas about himself he could no longer suppress. He is doing it again with his own version of the One True Church but this time splitting from himself.
"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."David C. Pack
First of all, please realize that I recognize that I have quoted this December 1998 quote a number of times. Why? Because it is classic and tells one all they need to know about how one man thinks and WHEN this occurs, as it is obvious the man is concerned about actually happening now that he is in charge, this is exactly how it will play out. This is David Pack's premier prophecy about what would be coming both to his tenure with Global and now once again to RCG. While the obligatory disclaimer of "But I'll tell you what, I am not going anywhere," is also a relatively sincere statement of mind that is somewhat clear of strange and weird ideas at that moment, but the Genie begs to be free of the bottle. Dave has probably entertained many strange and weird ideas about himself in ministry and his calling over the years and now that he is on his own with no over site and no accountability, it will become very difficult to repress and suppress them in the future.
That time of having to deal with strange and weird ideas has come for David C. Pack and the members of his Restored Church of God. The problem seems to be that, as predicted, Dave would be able to deceive them, explain away why these strange and weird ideas aren't strange and weird at all and few if any of them will actually repeat Dave's warning to them about him back to him. The track record for those that try to repeat anything back to Dave of a cautionary nature has never been good for the those that attempt such things. He can be a bit intimidating at least in a cloistered setting.
I want to make a statement about me.. now...
If I see that David C. Pack is deceived...I simply need to point it out.
(sorry couldn't resist).
I grew up in an extremely stable home where dad went to work at 7 and was home by 5 every night, five days a week for decades. Everyone had every weekend off and we vacationed in the Adirondacks two weeks out of every year for as long as i can remember. Days of fishing, laughing, swimming, exploring and quiet time that I have ever since craved. Fresh water lakes, the smell of gasoline in an outboard and worms stored in wet newspaper for fishing are strong memories. We ate every evening meal together and we liked doing it. Church was twice a Sunday event and I can't remember one sermon the pastor ever gave, but they were good, easy on the mind and gentle.
In a Dutch Orthodox Church you learned the Bible, Old Testament and New. In school I memorize whole chapters to say them PERFECTLY in competitions with others. By the time I went to Ambassador College there was no story or place in the Bible I had not already soaked in.....except Revelation, which never ever came up in any context I can remember. Thus, that was the hook that attracted me to WCG along with what seemed to be a bigger picture as to how it all fit together. By the time I was in High School, I knew i wanted to go to seminary and pastor. It seemed the best and highest calling and fit my stable background and upbringing. I had been accepted to Roberts Wesleyan Seminary in Rochester, but chose you know where.... If I had chosen RWS instead of WCG, the story would have been different but I know very well I would have come to the same conclusions living out that story as I did with WCG. My regret is that no seminary or church is going to tell you what your really need to know to make a right decision about the Bible.
In either story I KNOW I would have come to see the Bible has its problems. . It is not without major errors and contradictions. It did not come from where one thinks it did and it is highly political. There never was one true church even it's pages and all never did believe the same thing about Jesus. Whole books were not written by the names affixed and it is not one seamless , coherent text. It contains bad science and is not a treatise on where humans came from or how the Universe organized itself.
The Gospels may indeed be a huge passion play written to bring Jesus, yet another Sun of God , down to earth and literalize the journey of the Sun through the 12 signs of the Zodiac. Paul's Jesus was cosmic in scope, never lived a real life on earth for the most part, never met or quoted by Paul and was crucified in the heavens by evil forces in the sky. Paul's Jesus was hallucinatory in his mind. When Jesus gave things to Paul, it was in visions. Gospel Jesus never heard of Paul and Paul never heard of Gospel Jesus even though Paul brags on being the best Pharisee in Jerusalem under the best teacher, which I doubt. Paul's Jesus comes first in the NT and then Gospel Jesus but the current order of the NT gives a different impression of what was really going on. I spare us....
The World Wide Church of God and all the characters, like the Armstrongs, Tkaches, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and too many others slowly drove me into the very anxiety and fear I was probably trying to dampen down as a kid, as I perceived the world, by going to it in the first place. I also had a blind, deaf and non-speaking brother I had to fix along with all his friends at the State Hospital in Newark, NY. where I spent every Sunday afternoon between Church for 15 years. I spent years pastoring but in denial of what was going on around me in "THE Church". In my experience, the stable, open minded and good hearted actual minister types always lost out to the loons. I realized that my coping skills were not good and I attribute that to that stability of youth where I didn't know what coping was.
No minister in my youth ever remotely made the kinds of statements about themselves or even the Church that we see in these loose cannons produced by the WCG implosion. Of course many made such statements as part of WCG. No man in ministry in my experience would ever spend two seconds explaining to me why he was special. Jesus would get here when he got here but since everyone was going to heaven and no Hell was discussed, don't base your life on those statements in scripture. Wish I had listened. No Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Watchers, Witnesses or Wackos need apply. It just never came up. If it had, that man would have been looking for work by the next day. The ministers in my pre-WCG days did not control the congregation. They served it. They could also be dismissed by it.
They were called to encourage it and teach balanced living and doctrine. No minister would ever remotely think to utter the insane words nor give the kinds of sermons seen in the ego cults of a Gerald Flurry or a Dave Pack. Their training was of a quality that would never allow that and their understanding of the Bible was much more realistic. They were not God Haunted men. They were not given to scriptural fantasy about their importance and probably would either fall out laughing at a Dave Pack or say that the man needed to be out of ministry and on medications. They were simply ministers, in my experience, of the hope that lay within them too and they wanted to share it. I am sorry for the difficult time I gave him as a kid over all things Bible, but I am not so sorry today giving the likes of Dave Pack a hard time. The difference is that my childhood ministers were very fine , stable , highly theologically educated and caring men. Dave Pack does not rate this kind of respect with all his strange and weird ideas about himself as does Gerald Flurry not.
David C. Pack, aka Joshua C Pack, Joshua W. Packstrong, Joshua W. Armpack, David W. Armstrong, is spewing the strange and weird ideas he warned his congregation to be on the lookout for and call him out on. He is getting away with it just fine.
"I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? "
The "brethren" obviously didn't and still don't understand what Dave was saying. I'm not in Dave's Church. I'm not under his control. I'm not into his self view. I know the Bible does not mean in Haggai what Dave wants it to mean about himself. But I am going to do as Dave instructed. I am going to quote it right back to him.
Where in the world of the Christian religion do ministers invest so much time and effort into telling their congregations just who they are, where they stand in the pecking order of "God's form of Government," and how you need to respect that first and foremost? Where else do men spend hours preaching self ordinations to Apostle, Priest or Prophet. Dr Bob Thiel is simply hilarious to have the need to find a 'double blessing" in an anointing for feeling a bit under the weather as a sign that he now is a Prophet. Simply hilarious. In the world of my youth, he'd only attract incredulous forehead slapping. The reason these guys can't say the word "Jesus" in their musings is because they aren't of Jesus. They are of Armstrong plain and simple. Dave Pack could never be of Apollos because he IS Apollos in his mind. Of course all claim to be "of Christ." That word works for all of them.
Where in any balanced Christian ministry would you hear...
"Yeah, I know, one or two can leave and say, 'Hey, you stopped preaching and started meddling, now you're messing with my goods here on earth' ""First Timothy 6 verse 17...'Charge them that are rich in this world'...If you were born in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, then you're rich""If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them""Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it."
"Wives, you can be independent in this.
You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.
I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds.
What are you going to do about it?...
Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'
...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' "
"Go get those assets and get them here"
David C. Pack
David C. Pack
The Clarion Call
The answer is nowhere where any real minister helping people's joy pastored. If you sit through a harangue like that and think it is acceptable and appropriate, you are also insane.
Outside of the kinds of people that are evidently drawn to these guys, where do you find those that would ever tolerate their minister saying that a minor prophet in the Old Testament, Haggai, which they would have to check the index to find, foretells a future Joshua the High Priest who would reunite ALL and their pastor just happens to be this fanciful character? What kind of insane stupidity is that? I dare Dave Pack to clearly explain to his television audience his view of himself as spoken of by the "prophet" Haggai. I dare him. Herbert Armstrong never had the guts to actually preach the Gospel to "Kings" or explain just who he thought he was which he actually wasn't. I am sure Dave will explain it in terms of "a strong voice from somewhere," but never quite get around to explaining the details of just who this strong voice thinks he is and where he is spoken of in the Bible 2500 years ago. Dave can't tell the truth of his delusions to the public or instead of sending it in all he'll hear is "click." Come on Dave, give that "I am Joshua the High Priest spoken of in the minor Prophet Haggai in the 6th century BCE" broadcast....
Where in the world of Christianity do you find Bob Jones University the First, Second and Third? Nowhere. Bob Jones University has it's drop outs, splits and detractors all very similar to those that WCG brought on itself. There are the conservatives who went bonkers over letting blacks in. There are liberals (by comparison but still sticklers for law and order) who want Bob Jones the 3rd or 4th , I forget, to lighten up, which he did. That always happens down the road. Bob Jones the First thundered, "It will be over my dead body that there will ever be kissing on this campus." BJ the First is buried on the campus so guess where the kids go to kiss? They have a gay and lesbian community on campus they are in absolute denial over. Former students and pastors walk around the outside with protest signs over one issue or the other. A security guard shot into a car that did not stop at the security entrance a while back. The really big Baptist church across the street form the entrance is off limits to students as it pastored by a rebellious and off track former graduate. But nowhere on earth is someone building more true Bob Jones campuses to lure the super in the know students to and to follow the reincarnated Bob Jones the First.
The reason Pack and Flurry built their personal and physical plants is for control. In their minds they actually think there is NO other place on earth where one can get a theological education of the correct perspective, which is insane.
These are men who simply cannot work WITH others or FOR others. They are LTC's. Loose Theological Cannons, or Canons. And they are wrong about themselves. Herbert was never really "Zeurbbabel." Dave Pack is no real Joshua and Gerald Flurry is not really "That Prophet." Make an analogy if you wish, but these men aren't making analogies. They are lying to themselves and others and making scripture mean what it never meant.
That sucking sound is indeed your tithes and offerings going down the drain to pay for lights, heat , air, water, fountains, landscaping, buildings , faculty homes, cars, electric carts , land and security. But Our Lord is coming SOON as Dave reinvents the wheel. It also shows most learned nothing from the Armstrong/Tkach experience with such things.
What kind people tolerate a pastor who scoffs at an ultimately will forbid research on topics or papers written and discussed when needed? How brain dead does one have to be to never question the decisions, ideas or expenditures of the pastor? Who never questions their boss or disagrees with a long dead religious figure? This kind of congregation needs to invest in large group meds until they clear the fog of compliance and personal boundries. Why would one person get all the power to decide while the majority has no say in what is said, done, imagined, spent or built with their contributions? People are nuts.
The idea that one small, very small group of religious people are God's favorite and chosen is both repulsive and ludicrous. People get so used to comparing themselves with the early Christians, who actually all believed many crazy and ludicrous things themselves about themselves at that time as well, Back then, THEY were going to be changed. THEY would not all die. THEY were the chosen nation and priesthood and people of God's own. THEY would live to see it all come down and Jesus to return. THEY would be protected and caught up. THEY would see the Kingdom of God SOON. THEY WERE WRONG... The need to be special far overshadows the need to be correct. Of course they think they are both special AND correct and that tick won't let go.
" Do you understand what I'm saying brethren?
Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived,
I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...
And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...
But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
Dave's already gone somewhere and the "brethren" are either afraid to speak up , which with Dave Pack you would do well to pay attention to and there is a price to pay for, or oblivious to what is happening. Dave offered this as a lifetime challenge to all with whom he comes into contact with in his ministerial future. In that time he has gone from just one of the minister to Apostle, Priest, Watcher and now the really real meaning of Haggai in the form of Joshua he HIGH Priest...and he ain't kidding. It is not an analogy.
If these aren't strange and weird ideas to the members of the Restored Church of God, what on earth would it take for you to suspect one?
Anyone besides me quoting Dave back to Dave?
I do wish all of us/you a very blessed
International Medications Not Congregations Month
And please, Larry, Moe and Curly of three splinters,
as David C Pack no doubt defines you as...
PLEASE take good care of yourself and we'll get through this just fine.
When You Talk to Someone and Their Voice Rises, it is Because a Demon is Influencing Them....Because They are Borderline Commandment Keepers
In the never ending weirdness that is Armstrongism, here is another one for the file cabinet:
Quite a few times I have heard of Church people lying. Both side affirm that they are telling the “truth”.
Some of this can be explained by people being tired and mixing up words. Plus misunderstandings.
For a few months after my Heart Attack, I was quite bad with putting sentences together backwards. Giving the opposite meaning. When questioned these types of mix ups are always corrected.The lying that I am bringing up is about Demonic Lying. I have talked to people who have been excited about a certain subject, suddenly there voice changes tone or pitch. They say something completely offbeat and wrong. I sharply correct them. Then they carry on with what they were talking about.
At times (a few/too many) COG people and Ministers who have sin lurking, and slipping more and more away from the Ten Commandments. Have Demons lurking in certain thought layers of their brain. When the Demon takes over they have no knowledge of it. After the Demon has had his say. They carry on knowing nothing of what they just said.These situations cause all sorts of very bad evil troubles in the Church.My advice to anyone, who has COG people tell them that what they have just said is wrong is this. Go back over what has been said and try to work out any misunderstandings. We as Gods people should never completely reject correction. We need to heed and look into our lives to see if we are slipping away from the Truth.Take note of pragmatic (hard headed) liars. Usually there voice will change tone or pitch. Usually they will be borderline Commandment keepers. They will not understand what is going on. Lots of demonic troubles will follow them.Best to stay away from them.
Thursday, August 1, 2013
Forwarded to me tonight from a Yahoo group:
Dave Pack appears to be using scare tactics to gain a following and grab former WCG members. He buys web search engine spots on every other church groups name, even Lifenets and facebook pages to do what I refer to as "sheep rustling" to all familiar with HWA. This is something HWA would never do. He then puts them down, and then says he is the true church. UCG had to buy a spot to say "This is the official UCG web site" to keep people from thinking he is it, or getting wrong information.
Posted By: Aaron Dean
I feel sorry for his people as he is demanding so much from them, like asking them to borrow against their homes (and if the husband won't do it, as community property he asks the wife to borrow her half - again going against a husband is something HWA would never demand except to obey God's law. Borrowing against the family home to give to the church is not one of God's laws. Proper respect of your husband is) and then justifying it by saying they had all things in common in Acts. Of course that is not what Acts is about. We had a long email exchange where he was upset with answers I gave from questions mostly from his own people, saying I was lying, but ended up justifying everything I had listed in giving answers. Obviously he felt I was keeping people from him with his claims of being so close to HWA and other issues.
Gamaliel's advice will play out on him. He does not do as Mr. Armstrong did and I pray for people who are, or will be, hurt by him. He has a grandiose plan and needs a lot more money to complete it and many are fooled by scare tactics.
A reader here commented about Mark Nash of the Philadelphia Church of God and his new moon nonsense. I decided to look the guy up and see what he said.
The very first thing that popped up was nothing about "new moons" but the fact that he was in prison for tax evasion and that PCG let him preach while out on "good behavior" weekends.
Another person of interest is Mark Nash. He is a former Navy Seal or Green Beret, with all the "talents" taught to them. He went to prison for defrauding the IRS, and yet was not even suspended while in prison. In fact, he was allowed to give sermons while on leave for "good behavior." If any member on the bottom level was similarly put away, he would be put out for putting the "church" in a bad light. After all, even deacons are supposed to be "blameless" in the world and of "good reputation." What gives? What do these men know that keeps them in the "good old boy network"? These two men, at least, have knowledge that keeps them on the "inside." Otherwise, Flurry would have disposed of them long ago. Mark Nash now teaches Physical Ed and who knows what else. ESN
If he had been a low class regular church member they would have kicked him out. Because he was part of the "elite" they did nothing to him.
Another wonderful legacy of Armstrongism and the Philadelphia Church of God. Flurryism rocks!
Wednesday, July 31, 2013
Herbert W. Armstrong was born 121 years ago, on July 31, 1892. And a lot has happened in the world since he was born. From automobiles to the space age, from paper to computers and the internet, from WWI to WWII to terrorism, from societal respect for biblical principles to abortion & homosexual marriage “rights.” There have been changes.
But “he who does the will of God abides forever” (1 John 2:17).
Even though we in the most faithful COGs actually do not celebrate (but do acknowledge) birthdays, nor do we celebrate his (see also the article Did Early Christians Celebrate Birthdays?), since many who come to this page know little about him that this would be a good time to tell a few things about him.
Here is an interesting web site called 119 Ministries. I have to admit it is a slick well produced site. There are COG members that are attracted to this group.
As usual, it is a mish-mash of Armstrongism mixed in with Messianic Judaism. The law reigns supreme along with some works based "grace."
Their videos are slick and well produced. They put to shame anything Dave Pack, Gerald Flurry or Bob Thiel is putting out. The videos are certainly compelling and for an Armstrongite struggling with the 700 different opinions by 700 different splinter cult leaders, I can see why some are attracted to this group. If I had to choose between this group and James Malm it would be an easy decision.
True to their Messianic roots they also wear tzitzits which you can conveniently buy from them:
E.W. King is all giddy tonight over a miraculous event that happened in his little personality cult. While he was holding a Bible Study in a small cabin in the mountains, 100 miles away one of his church elders had the same vision! Woo, spooky!
Of course, King now runs the worlds best COG ever to exist. Even Dave Pack is in impotent little pussy man compared to E. W. King and his mighty message!!!!!
This telepathic message from his god proves to King that his work is the only true work following his god. Not Jesus mind you, but some god that likes the law.
It is absolutely AMAZING how in these Latter-days God is again filling His church with spiritual food! God is allowing New Revelations to come through the “open door” [Revelation 3:8; Isaiah 45:1]. Just to give you an example: This week some COGSR members met with me [Mr.E.W.King] and we conducted Bible studies in an upstairs room in a home located in the mountains. One day after, (after the remnant that I was visiting with went back out into this fallen world to live and proclaim the message) I called Elder Paul, who lives far away in another state. He began to inform me that he received a special revelation while in personal study and he wanted to read what he received.
As he read I was in complete shock! The Scriptures that God showed him and how he was seeing the bigger picture, and “rightly dividing the truth”, completely agreed with the COGSR group that I myself was studying with the night before. Elder Paul received the same message we had and he is over 1000 miles away from us!
We, the final Remnant of God, are experiencing one miracle after another! We have read in the Scriptures a passage from the prophet Joel which explains that God would feed His chosen people again with spiritual food. While other groups are experiencing a spiritual famine and drought, the true Worldwide Church of God is currently experiencing a DOWN POUR! The Latter-day Watchmen are bringing forth fruit in great abundance and are sharing [proclaiming] it with others. We are and have been inviting all who study with us to share what God is showing them. We are eager to post the revelations on this church site!
Tuesday, July 30, 2013
Bob Thiel, the non-ordained self-appointed leader of the Continuing Ed Church of God thinks soooooooooooooooooo highly himself and his huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge ministry that Dave Pack has surely named him as one of the three COG leaders that will die before August 31, 2013.
I can almost guarantee that Dave Pack is not considering Thiel as one of these leaders. If Thiel were to die, who will jump ship to Dave? 15 people in Arroyo Grande and a few hundred around the world? That minuscule number of people will NOT be bringing in huge amounts of money, so this essential puts Thiel outside the boundary of The Three.
Thiel's so called ministry is at the bottom of the totem pole in regards to the 700 splinter groups. A few hundred members and a crappy video program does not constitute a worldwide ministry. He has not been able to draw in any non-COG folk into his mini group. No one cares.
Although I have not listened to David Pack’s recent sermons (and more details are in the post RCG’s David Pack declares that ‘three shepherds’ will die on August 30, 2013. Is Bob Thiel one of them?), the above seems consistent with certain statements that he has posted.
The 24th of Elul is August 30, 2013. If I, Bob Thiel, am actually one of the three that are supposed to die, and I am supposed to die with the other two, this is even more extreme delusion on the part of David Pack.
When I learned about this, I thought I had a pretty good idea who the three might be (and conveyed that to another COG group that had interest). According to the same source that provided me the transcript, supposedly I (Bob Thiel) may be one of the three shepherds that David Pack 100% believes will die by the end of August 2013. However, as David Pack did not clearly state that in a source I have been able to verify, he, presuming I remain alive which I will be, will likely deny he was referring to me as one of the three.
If David Pack is 100% certain then I challenge him to publicly so state. I am 100% certain that I am not going to die then and hopefully this will prove to RCG supporters that he is wrong about this and many other matters. Even if I am not one of the three (and my writing this may get him to make another disparaging comment or two about me), does David Pack have the courage to name names this close to his August 30th date?
James Malm, the wanna-be prophet and leader of the TRUE remnant of the COG is really pissed that none of the COG's will listen to his new moon teaching malarkey. Christians down through the centuries have proven that celebrating new moons and blowing trumpets are a waste of time and not relevant to a Christians' walk with God. The only people who have found relevance in it seem to be those die-hard legalists that pretend to be Jews though they cannot keep the law as expected.
Malm, has been seeking for some time now to form his own splinter cult that will provide an income source to him. He is doing the same thing Bob Thiel did, by setting himself up as the final authority on scripture and the law. Like Thiel, Jesus is NOT part of Malm's conversation. Like Thiel, Malm is not ordained, which is a direct affront to what HWA taught about church leaders.
Malm demands that all of his followers observe all new moons and blow trumpets. Then that evening they are to study their Bibles because it technically is not a "holy day."
Herbert Armstrong and the Churches of God have all determined that this "festival" is not required and Malm does not like that. He claims HWA was influenced by pagan Hoeh and other others to think that the Karaite Jews actually preserved the Jewish scriptures. Malm says this is not so because the Karaites are Sadducees and perverters of the word.
Malm is particularly incensed at COGWA because it is circulating a "secret" document on new moon observance to all its ministers that says it is not required.
As far as I know this COGWA paper has not been published; perhaps to keep me from critiquing it. It has been distributed to the elders to help them fight the word of God when they are questioned by their brethren.Malm is incensed that COGWA and all the other COG's are apostates because they don't follow him, yet his is in the exact same boat as they are, by bastardizing the scriptures to fit his perverted legalistic message.
I am taking the gloves off with this and I do not intend to pull any punches here, as this subject is a test subject, about whether people will obey the word of God; or whether they will cleave to what they think, regardless of the facts.
Those who reject the word of God and the facts, to follow and cleave to obvious error; are rebelling against God and his word and have the Mark of the Beast; which is rebellion against the word of God.
This paper is consistent with the teachings of most of the COG Groups and this series is applicable to all those who follow apostate men instead of the word of God on the calendar issue.
In the Church of Malm, the law trumps grace. The law is more important than Jesus. The 10 commandments are still required, though Malm and the rest of the COG's break every single one of them every single day.
Ladies and gentlemen: Today your God is testing and proving you! whether you are diligent to obey the word of the Lord your God; or whether you will obey false teachers from the Rabbins and or the COG leaders and elders!Yep, your god is pissed and angry. It is testing everyone. That seems to be the state of the COG since the day HWA apostatized from the COG7th day to set up his own splinter group. Armstrong's god is pissed. It has been for the last 75 some years.
An acolyte asks Malm if new moons are required for salvation. Malm says yes, now that he has told you they are, you are now held accountable.
As a side note, it is interesting that when you type in "should a Christan observe new moons" almost all of the early sites that come up are Armstrongite splinter cults.
Monday, July 29, 2013
There is a Seat for Every Butt
I had a client once that sold cars and had a really ugly pink convertible on his lot. No one expected it ever to sell. When asked why he even bought such a car for his lot as it would never sell he said. "Oh no, it will sell. There is a seat for every butt. Someone will come in here and think it was made especially for them and pay full price."
And this is true.....
It has been my observation that one of the reasons there are so many kinds of one true churches is because there are so many kinds of one true personalities. Let's face it. Most folk feel that how they filter their world, believe what they believe, practice what they practice and feel as they feel is just fine and probably pretty close to what should be. No one ever joined the false church as far as I can tell and no one has ever told me , "oh yes, I know I am deceived by Satan, but I enjoy it and the people are nice." No one ever told me that they knew everything they believed was BS but they didn't care.
The desire to know whatever "the truth" of life is that draws people to any religion or belief system is born out of our need for purpose and understanding of the world around us and of course, the fact that we know we shall die. This one factor, our knowledge of our own demise, not found in any other sentient being, is the engine that runs religious seeking. It is the origin of all doctrine and the subject of lives lived to achieve the desired outcome. Our fears drive us to our religions and that is quite normal.
Denominations have personalities and they draw those of like personality. Pentecostals are known for their emotional services so draw those inclined to repressed emotions needing and outlet. Speaking in Tongues perhaps appeals to the need to feel special or set apart in an uncommon way in an otherwise dull and routine life. The very liberal who feel no need for "all to believe the same thing," can be found in Unitarian, Unity and Episcopal Churches. You don't get disfellowshipped from these groups for holding contrary views of the Bible or your what's it all about being not the same as someone else's.
Presbyterians tend towards intellect as well and set nicely in the middle of wanting to be and do what is right and understanding the Bible is not literally true in all it's presentation , science is good and we're all here to learn. Besides we have other things to do.
Catholics tend towards the comfort of pomp, authority and tradition. A good catholic can apologize away any Bible contradiction to their faith. They are masters at taking a simple scripture, say on idolatry, and showing how it still lets them do what they do and doesn't mean what it says. But then Moses made bronze snakes so no biggy. You haven't lived until you listen to a Catholic apologist explain Mary or the need to obey the Magisterium when in doubt as they know.
Baptists pride themselves in taking everything in the Bible as literally true. God said, I believe it, that does it for me works for them even if they don't understand the background or the difference between myth, midrash and hyperbole. This church attracts men who like to yell and talk funny bouncing on their feet and members who love the show and an occasional "amen."
On Banned, we are often a bit dumbfounded wondering just "who are these people that follow the likes of Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack?" What are they getting out of this and why? What is the appeal? What are they thinking with all this obvious and ridiculous behavior, strange and weird ideas about themselves?
First of all, all COG's are Jewish Christian holdouts and for this I cannot fault them. Jewish Christians were the first Christians. If you exclude Paul, you have a Jewish people who follow who they perceived then as the promised Messiah. Once the promised Messiah was killed, the game did change however as that was not in the cards for Judaism.
The problem Jewish Christians have is what to do with Paul? They think Paul was also a Jewish Christian going to Gentiles with a somewhat modified Jewish Christian view but they are wrong about this. Like the early Jewish Christian leaders Peter, James and John did, Paul will have to be rejected as apostate and false. Paul indeed is the founder of our modern Christianity and not any Gospel Jesus. Jesus would not have recognized Paul's thinking or conclusions. Of course no one knows how to do that so they end up trying to figure out if Paul is for or against many things depending on the verses quoted. It's also why they do not pick up on Paul's convoluted theology. The Jewish Christian view of Jesus, End of Age, True Church, Protection, Resurrection and Kingdom of God is just so simple and appealing. Paul's twisted and often tortured explanations which were admitted to be "hard to be understood" by even those who followed him are just too far out and not all that important really in the COGs. If one can't see that Jewish Christian leaders hated the gentile interloper Paul, and why, you will never get the NT straight or be more realistic in your understanding of Church drama, division and crack ups.
I never gave a sermon in my life on justification, sanctification or the triune this or that one scratches one's head over when you read Grace Community stuff by Ted Johnston over at "The Surprising God" Blog. I read their views from time to time and shake my head with my own classic response of , "and you know this?" Double talk if ever I heard it. You see it does not appeal to my personality. I could never be drawn to getting all swoozy over the Holy Spirit or the Trinity doing amazing things that are equally hard to be understood or even imagined. I grew up Presbyterian. When the Tkaches reinvented my wheel being so amazed at what they found, it was just a shoulder shrugger for me. It is neither inspiring nor motivating. I find the whole thing boring and unprovable as if I even wanted it to be so. CGI stuff would put me in a theological trance with my response being "yeah, fine..whatever, who cares?" I grew up with it and the WCG view was more appealing when young. Not so much anymore :)
So what is it that draws people to the Flurry's and Pack's of COGdom? Why do they allow themselves to be browbeaten by such messages as Dave's Clarion Call to do things with their resources that no sane thinking person would ever do? It is very manipulative, to me, for a man to warn a congregation to be aware of himself going off track and getting strange so they could do something about it and then calm them back down with "but I tell you, I am not going anywhere." Telling them "no, no, no, no...you can believe me now, because I'll say it's a, b, c and xyz," is manipulative group doping. . I just told how I would manipulate you and deceive you and then I told you not to worry about it but got my own fears off my chest. Simply nuts. Back into the coma I guess.
So what would be the personal beliefs someone would have to have to tolerate all this theologically off base drama? Do these folk really believe Dave is spoken of in Haggai and IS the real topic of the book? Who would really send in a retirement , inheritance or home sale to Dave? What church ever said to do that? Even in the NT they tried it and it failed miserably if you know how to read between the lines. It never became the norm. Besides you can only give all once so then what? Send in your retirement again? Pull big triggers again? If these kinds of things are what Dave says in public, what on earth does he say to them in private? Why does Dave go ape shit crazy to get sermon tapes back that were only for the chosen ones ears? Who are these people and why do the put up with this? On top of this, what kind of man would want to administer Dave's views by being a minister in RCG? What kind of a man would actually submit to Dave's 35 sell me your soul demands for forgiveness and restitution to his institution?
These inner needs of those who simply must follow Joshua W.Packstrong may not be in the exactly correct order, but these must be factors in why Dave can fill seats with his ridiculous views of himself and error ridden theology. Remember, Dave is actually not well trained. Being "trained" by HWA, a man who was equally not well trained in theology is no feather in your cap. It's like being taught to sing by Tiny Tim, who is famous for "Tip Toe Through the Tulips." (TT always looked like Dr. Hoeh to me:)
So...To be drawn to Dave Pack and RCG these must be my needs and views.
1. I need to be told what the Bible says by one person who knows and I know Mr. Pack knows. He went to Ambassador College and studied under Mr. Armstrong directly. I am not capable of reading and applying it on my own. Even in this day and age where knowledge and research is so much more easily done on all things Bible, I simple need someone like a Dave Pack to tell me what it says and means.
2. I need the security of being told, no matter what, I am special and no harm will befall me if I abide in RCG and under David Pack's wings. Dave tells me we will flee and be protected. A very scary concept and fraught with enough fearful outcomes to make you sick and more fearful in my view. This is a huge theological mistake on Dave's part, and others, but I spare you.
3. I believe in special Prophets, Priest, Popes and Apostles. If I believe in those authority figures for a church then it is no great leap to believing in Watchers, Witnesses, Zerrubabels and Joshuas.
4. I am incapable of imagining who and what God is so I have to trust others to tell me about it is and what it is up to.
5. There just has to be one absolutely true church somewhere and in spite of this one having only a few thousand followers, out of billions of humans, this must be it. It's a small flock so that is good enough proof for me. On top of that, we do have persecution, so there ya go...
6. I need someone to assure me good science well done is not correct and that stories meant as myth with a divine message are literally true. I need to know Adam and Eve were real and where we really came from. I need another to do my homework for me. Note: I have heard Dave confirm the 6000 year old myth which tells me all I need to know about the man's intelligence. No one with any intellectual capacity in this day and age would find the earth to have been created a mere 6000 years ago in six days. That is intellectual retardation.
7. I don't mind being told never to question Mr. Pack, his views, decisions or plans. God corrects him not me. I believe that. (That may about to be more true than Dave ever imagined). I don't mind giving him my money which he told me is not really mine anyway (It's his) nor mind not questioning what he does with it. I don't want responsibility for my own resources.
8. I need to be in a church that changes not nor needs to learn anything new. There actually is nothing new to learn and I'm content to just know what Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry knows. I don't trust my own judgement .
9. If the Bronze age was good enough for my minister, it's good enough for me.
10. If I am a minister in RCG/PCG, I don't mind being controlled and used. Jesus used the disciples. I don't mind being lower and believe firmly in ranks of human beings.God placed me under Mr. Pack. I don't mind that if I don't see it now. I will see it someday when I am more humble and God reveals to me that Mr. Pack is correct always. It is ok that he is much more intelligent than myself and that I will trust his research and intellect over mine any day as God's Apostle. This is what faith is. Mr. Pack told me that.
11. I know time is short and Jesus is coming soon. Mr. Pack assures me of this and reminds me of all sorts of 2000 year old scriptures written to now dead believers as to how soon it will be. Mr. Pack assures me that this "soon" is really the correct "soon" just as this "Joshua" is really the correct "Joshua."
12. While I can see the disconnect between "soon" and all this building and expense , which I don't question, I believe Mr. Pack when he tells me this is what "blessed is he that is found so doing," means.
13. I am not easily embarrassed by Mr Pack's extreme views of himself or his personally perceived calling. He backs them all up with scriptures so I know he must be correct.
14. I know that if I ever feel Mr. Pack is into strange or weird ideas about himself, I would perceive it and leave. Or I would know that God would correct him and he would take that correction to heart and admit he was mistaken. Mr. Pack is the kind of man that would always admit to being mistaken or be sure I knew the difference between his opinions and what the Bible actually means.
15. I don't mind and know that sometimes the truths Mr. Pack brings us can drive a wedge between me and my partner or children and it's ok. The Bible says and Mr. Pack tells me this can happen.
16. As a woman, I know I am of less value than a man. I know I have no voice if I am just a non-member mate but that I do have one, at least as far as half of our family income and stuff is concerned, if I am a member. If so, then I can send it in. If not, I accept being told I have no voice woman and my husband can send it in.
17. While I am aware that Ron Weinland made an ass out of himself setting dates of one kind or another, Mr. Pack is different and this is different. Mr. Pack gets his dates out of the actual Bible and converts them to Roman time as God intended. So all things will occur exactly as Mr. Pack says because it is really God saying it, not Mr. Pack. He is not a prophet as he said so he is simply passing on what God has said and means. It's a done deal.
18. I am incapable of cracking the code language in the Bible and Mr. Pack knows the code. I totally trust he has the right code and that his 1960's decoder ring still works well. Art Mokarow wrote a book called , "God's Puzzle Solved," but a puzzle is not a code and what he solved is not what Mr. Pack has uncovered in the code. His code trumps Mokarow's Puzzle and this is why I come to church here.
19. I like being in a church whose pastor notes the upcoming deaths of 3 blind mice in the splinters to show God's awesome accuracy in this age. It might be literal but it also might be spiritual and easily explained away if not literal but it will happen as Haggai noted about Mr Pack uncovering this code.
20. I need to be in a church where everything, and I mean everything is exaggerated, overblown, awesome, overarching and never before understood in quite this way, on a weekly basis. I bore easily and this stuff pumps me up in my otherwise mundane life. If the last awesome doesn't fly, the next one surely will and be more awesome! It's almost like being Pentecostal.
21. I have no personal self esteem or worth and need Dave Pack to make me feel special even if he makes a fool out of me.
Now admit...some of us wonder "what if this stuff happens?" "What is RCM dies? Dave will use that?" "Maybe Dave Pack knows something about Haggai and the Bible Code others just don't." "What if I really do lose the Holy Spirit if I don't join him?" "What if.......?"
(To quote Joshua W Packstrong)
Hey! Snap...snap...not to worry. August 2013 will come and go just as any other August has. Wars will continue in the world, the economy will worsen, the games people play will be exposed, government will govern badly. Kids will get read for school. College classes will start up again. An asteroid may hit but probably not. Some will die in earthquakes and fires. God will continue to try and get our attention with weather as Bob Thiel likes to believe as hurricane season is ramping up and Dave Pack will have some splainin' to do when the cars are not quite backed up into town coming to Wadsworth for the feast.
I may write some more in September, I may not. I may think I am over this crazy stuff or I may get more determined to confront it. Life will go on in some form for billions. Millions and millions will continue to go to their true churches never giving it a thought. Thousands and thousands will drop out of one and head to another or just drop out. Ron Weinland will still be in prison still trying to figure out why since he did nothing wrong and has nothing to apologize for to the brethren and Dave Pack will over arch and fall on his face.
Contact Dennis at DennisCDiehl@aol.com